joel Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 so far i had 5 dates all with japanese fob esl girls. i number close them and all and we wallk to park, go play frisbee. as we talk and walk and get to know each other better i do simple kino . touch on arm, pat on back, and grab their hand to say lets go look at the water. they reject my kino to holding hands, my arm around them, simple light touches and sitting too close to them. also they all say but one said i have a bf and ur just a friend. had a few go into detail how much they love their bf and no no we are just friends after rejection i still do the kino but still i can see by body language its going nowhere. crossed arms, looking to leave....etc why the heck they go out with me then if you have a bf. what kind of guy goes direct saying ur cute and all and expect it to be just a friend to friend walk around park im glad i didnt spend any $ on them. is this a japanese girl thing or what. i got a day 2 with a chinese fob girl tommorrow and lets see. i even did the story telling about how i heard and saw my neighbours having sex in middle of night, or what she thinks of pda, kissing of first datel, dating history, how she likes being kissed........stuff i read on this forum to get them aroused and into sex.esclate to ensure sex on first date forum thread. and nothing she even said if i was a pervert. this is first time i tried this though. might again try again. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 You're trying too hard with the PUA stuff, don't tell too much stories all the time and referring to things as kino, you're making it a mechanical process rather than an organic one. They may be lying about the boyfriends, but even if they aren't, don't continue "kino" with them if that's the case, just make an exit and forget about them, unless you want to be friends with them then it's cool. My main point is if you're going to go the PUA route, you have to pick and choose your material and definitely go for the more natural route, such as developing yourself and your life. Getting fit, style & grooming, hobbies, goals, missions etc. Developing a personal code of honorðics. As for the outer-game stuff, simply learn things like improving your own body language, having and maintaining a social circle, flirting and banter. Kino can work, but the problem is you're consciously doing it and that can be creepy. The best thing is to make yourself do it naturally rather than forcing it. Link to post Share on other sites
dasein Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 No idea whether it's a cultural thing or not, but accepting dates from men while involved in an exclusive relationship is a sign of low quality and a cake-eating, privileged attitude. Five is a long streak, but just a streak of low quality women. As far as "escalating kino" goes, it didn't originate in PUA, but rather in sales training, and is merely a type of shorthand for "increasing the amount of flirtatious touching that she returns as a way of showing physical interest." "Touching" by itself doesn't work, or else you have a bunch of inexperienced men "pawing on" women, maybe even touching inappropriately, which is counterproductive. Despite the kneejerk reactions on this board about PUA lingo, nearly all of it has some rational foundation in legitimate, respectful expression of sexual interest. You don't "grab" a girl according to what -you- want, you increase physical contact gradually at a controlled pace as she reacts receptively to being touched. "Kino escalation" involves the woman in a mutually pleasant process that the broader term "touching" does not. There is absolutely nothing sinister about this particular notion within PUA training despite having seen it recently categorized as such elsewhere here. Like it or not, the end result of dating is touching the other person in more and more intimate ways as they are receptive to it. That's all "escalating kino" means. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 "increasing the amount of flirtatious touching that she returns as a way of showing physical interest." you increase physical contact gradually at a controlled pace as she reacts receptively to being touched. "Kino escalation" involves the woman in a mutually pleasant process... That all sounds quite reasonable and based in common sense. However, if he's bringing up stories about how he has heard and seen his neighbors having sex in the middle of the night, and the women are ending up witdrawing from him, do we conclude that this is simply a coincidental string of 5 "low-quality" women? Or isn't it just as consistent an explanation that he's acting clumsily - blindly applying these techniques without a sensitivity to the women's feedback, not reading what they are "returning", not realizing that they're not "reacting receptively", and in the end, not resulting in a "mutually pleasant process"? If you do the same thing over and over and keep getting the same result, it gets harder and harder to explain it as an "unlucky string" and eventually you have to consider what element all these situations have in common. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Can someone tell me what "kino" is? Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Can someone tell me what "kino" is? Don't know, but from context, it just sounds like a regimented kind of body contact, touching. The thing that strikes me, is that the OP does sound very regimented about the whole process: "I number close them..." Don't know what that is, but it sounds like a procedure. "I do simple kino..." "I even did the story telling..." He's not just telling a story, he's invoking a process of telling a story... Is there any possibility that, just maybe, this is coming off as a little insincere? OP, when do they tell you about their boyfriends? Right off the bat, or after they've had some exposure to you for a while? I think you have to consider that, as opposed to them actually taking a date when they have a committed boyfriend, they may be giving you what they consider to be a gentle brush-off after they decide you're "not their type." Look at their body language - which you seem to be perceiving very clearly - after your attempts at "escalating kino"... Which is easier for a girl: telling you "I don't like being around you" or "Sorry, turns out I've got a BF." It's lame, and I'm not advocating or agreeing with that deception, but the fact is that girls use this pretty strong excuse to wriggle out of situations they are uncomfortable with. Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Kino escalation means getting the filly girl accustomed to your touch, first with short, light touches to non-intimate areas of the body like back, arms, etc. Then you increase the duration of the contact. Lastly, you start touching more intimate areas of the body, possibly leading to sex. Link to post Share on other sites
dasein Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 People who naturally socialize well build rapport in others by touching, everything from handshaking to hugging to patting the shoulder to more overt sexual touching. Sales training, aimed at helping people relate to sales prospects, that I received long before PUA became an actual industry, dictated that one way people who are "good with people" build rapport is by homing in on what senses another person responds to. For example, if someone says "I hear that," it may mean they respond to more aural stimuli. Somehow in the process of translating rapport-building "people" skills to PUA, "kinesthetic response" became "escalating kino." <i>The Sales Buzz</i> Issue 19 - NLP Sales Training Think as your buyer thinks It is not meant to be a map of how to overcome a woman's resistance to sex by a roadmap of touching various pieces of her, not some formula. Have seen it expressed as such (mistakenly IMO) by supposed practitioners, but not by the folks who actually make money selling PUA training. I prefer to think women are not that easy to manipulate, the equivalent of robotic rubik cubes that need to be twisted in a certain way to "unlock," and they aren't IME. What they are, though, is susceptible to clever, respectful seduction, not as quasi hypnotism, but in that skill in expressing such is a sign of social value and a healthy, sexual male. What it does is get a poorly socialized, nervous man closer to a place of recognizing touching cues that she gives and he should respond to in the mating dance. There are many guys out there who will either 1. shy from women's touch and from touching as they are simply poorly socialized or inexperienced social beings, or 2. overestimate her touch or receptivity to mild touch as more than it is ala "well she punched my shoulder, she must be flirting." Kino talk is for those. If she isn't attracted to some degree, no amount of kino or any other PUA method is going to magically turn her around. In my prior post, I was trying to suggest that OP may in fact be doing it as a raw, blunt technique as opposed to a mutually participatory experience. It's not a map, but a joint choreography that leads closer to sexual experience for men who were previously unaware or uncomfortable with the power and ramifications of human touching. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 In my prior post, I was trying to suggest that OP may in fact be doing it as a raw, blunt technique as opposed to a mutually participatory experience. Yes... if I didn't convey it clearly, this is exactly the impression I got from the OP's comments. Kind of an execution of procedures ("I even did the story telling...") instead of an actual closed loop, with genuine stimulation going out, and a sensitivity to the feedback coming back. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yes... if I didn't convey it clearly, this is exactly the impression I got from the OP's comments. Kind of an execution of procedures ("I even did the story telling...") instead of an actual closed loop, with genuine stimulation going out, and a sensitivity to the feedback coming back. And the girls likely don't have a boyfriend, but that was the best way they could think of to get away from the uncomfortable conversations and hand grabbing post haste. I doubt it has anything to do with the girls being Japanese! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ohmygoshistalk Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) who says stuff like FOB anymore? it isnt a nice thing to say AT ALL. looks to me like there is way too much communication barrier here (or even cultural)..maybe you should..consider something else. Edited May 22, 2012 by ohmygoshistalk Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 NLP is powerfull stuff, why are you using it ? You may end up messing stuff and hurting another human being. That's the key there, you are talking to a human being, not trying to install new software on your laptop. You want to know what your problem is ? What dasein and others have told you, you are impersonal, you don't empathise. You approach this as a mechanical problem that needs fixing and you have low opinions of women. If you are going to read PUA crap, at least look at the good ones that teach how to improve your inner self and let that one show up in public, not do this thing mechanically because you cannot control body language and it will appear dishonest to them. Also, if any girl tells you she has a bf, treat it as such. She either has a bf, and you don't need someone who will cheat on him, or she doesn't and she doesn't want to see you again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
dasein Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 who says stuff like FOB anymore? it isnt a nice thing to say AT ALL. I learned that term from Asian friends about ten years ago. Had not heard the term before. Recent immigrants who stick out are going to be called something, "FOB" seems rather tame in comparison to alternatives. Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 So what does FOB mean anyway ? Link to post Share on other sites
dasein Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Fresh off the boat Link to post Share on other sites
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