Speak up or forget it?

[Snowflower]

I can't move out right now. Honestly, I'm stuck. I lost my job last year over this prolonged D thing, and he doesn't want me to go back to work because he wants me to be available to travel with him. I've looked, and there is no way I could find a job that would give me the flexibility to accamadate his schedule and my savings won't support me for long. See why I'm trying to make the best of this and make it work? I do love him a whole lot and it's just tough honoring that and honoring myself too.

 

Was that better?

 

Daisy, I know you're getting a tone of advice here and it can be overwhelming! So I will keep my post very short...don't ever be dependent on a man financially...that is why you feel so stuck! My advice to you would be the same whether you were married, in a relationship with a single guy and especially in your relationship now!

 

Find a job and a way to support yourself. You will feel a lot better about things when you know that you have your own security blanket--and yourself--to depend on, if nothing else! Then you can tackle your relationship problems--hey, we all have relationship problems!

 

Good luck to you. ((hugs))

[Got it]

Things were going good until I read and reread your posts!

 

I'm really struggling with this because NO! I would't treat him the same way he's treated me or his stbx for that matter. We've been going over this in counselling and I'm starting to see things I didn't see before. Yea, I have doubts that we will make it. There is a pretty big age difference. I thought that was why the people who know about us don't take us seriously, but I'm starting to see it's more than that.

 

jwi71, I probably should apologize for my tone. Part of it is that I'm typing fast so I don't forget what I was going to say, and part of it is that I'm pretty ADD. I'm trying to learn to slow down and do what I've learned is called self editing. I will try to think more about my posts before I post them, ok?

 

I can't move out right now. Honestly, I'm stuck. I lost my job last year over this prolonged D thing, and he doesn't want me to go back to work because he wants me to be available to travel with him. I've looked, and there is no way I could find a job that would give me the flexibility to accamadate his schedule and my savings won't support me for long. See why I'm trying to make the best of this and make it work? I do love him a whole lot and it's just tough honoring that and honoring myself too.

 

Was that better?

 

Daisy, regardless of everything, I would take care of your financial independence first and foremost. You do not want to be dependent on him and have as many choices available as possible so if you need to move on you are in a sound position to do so. You can reevaluate that if and when you guys marry as that would give you some financial protection but at this point look out for yourself and your career.

 

In regards to the other issues, therapy is a good place to start but list out what your needs are and stand by them. I do not think things sound fair but you need to be happy and satisified in your relationship and if you aren't then you need the ability to address them.

[jwi71]

Things were going good until I read and reread your posts!

 

That's good!

I want you THINKING.

I want you OBSERVING.

I want you QUESTIONING.

Stand up for you, no one else will.

 

And this applies to ALL R's. I say this not because it's an A, I say it because you weren't doing it. Like I said, can't see the forest for the trees.

 

It's the a fog. It clouds and obfuscates and hazes the mind. It's also perfectly natural and normal. And curable.

 

I am on YOUR side even though it may not seem that way at times.

 

I'm really struggling with this because NO! I would't treat him the same way he's treated me or his stbx for that matter. We've been going over this in counselling and I'm starting to see things I didn't see before. Yea, I have doubts that we will make it.

 

You deserve to be treated with love and respect. All humans do.

He's not doing that. He never really has. It's WHO is.

 

This does NOT mean he can't change. He can. But it's hard. You have NO idea how hard. He doesn't either. No one does until it's done and one can look back over the journey. It's long, hard and oh so easy to quit. The key is, and only HE try knows (but if you watch, observe and think - you'll pick up clues) HE has to want to change. And he can only want that IF he recognizes the problem. And it's him.

 

Does he want it?

 

Don't answer. Watch. Listen. Think. Observe. Are his actions in line with a man who wants to change?

 

There is a pretty big age difference. I thought that was why the people who know about us don't take us seriously, but I'm starting to see it's more than that.

 

Oh its more alright.

I think my best advice here is a story. A true one. It's about me. Right after I D my xWW, I took a string a lovers. The first was a FoB Chinese student. She was was 23. I was 38. What do you think we had in common outside of the horizontal tango? Yup, nothing. Here's the relevance: she asked to join events with my friends (all 15-20 years older than she). I refused Why? Nothing in common. There was no point to her attendance for she was NOT in the peer (age or career or life level) group. She couldn't relate not because she was dumb but be ause she couldn't. Additionally, I was a little embarrassed for her. My friends would know exactly her "place" (**** toy) and I didn't want to subject myself or her to that. No, my friends who knew sorta approved. It's a guy thing.

 

jwi71, I probably should apologize for my tone. Part of it is that I'm typing fast so I don't forget what I was going to say, and part of it is that I'm pretty ADD. I'm trying to learn to slow down and do what I've learned is called self editing. I will try to think more about my posts before I post them, ok?

.

 

Please do. It's very off putting to get that tone and attitude.

If I can pick up on it over the Internet I promise everyone you come in contact with will pick up on it.

 

Like say his friends. Do you think he wants you giving off that tone and subtle attitude to his friends, his family, his social circle, his business circle?

 

I can't move out right now. Honestly, I'm stuck. I lost my job last year over this prolonged D thing, and he doesn't want me to go back to work because he wants me to be available to travel with him. I've looked, and there is no way I could find a job that would give me the flexibility to accamadate his schedule and my savings won't support me for long. See why I'm trying to make the best of this and make it work? I do love him a whole lot and it's just tough honoring that and honoring myself too.

 

This is a HUGE problem. If you feel stuck (can't move out) then you are creating an unhealthy and imbalanced dynamic.

 

You have to get a job. For YOU. It's less about $$ and more about self respect, self valuation and options (aka leaving). You are, as of now, dependent on a man who does show love as you would show to others nor does he respect your role/position in the R (the whole vasectomy thing). Staying home and dependent upon upon him is little more than you chaining yourself to his whim. A method of control (has zilch to do with travel - which is little more than what you have now but in a different city/hotel - aka nothing changed but the scenery outside the window).

 

DL, you CAN'T MAKE THIS WORK. You can't force any R to work. What you can do is create the opportunity for your partner to make healthy choices for you and for your R. This is universally true. He has to want it.

 

When I hear "make this work" I immediately know we are in an unhealthy place.

A place born out of lopsided feelings and a competitive bend to "make it work".

It's not born of creating a happy, healthy loving R - but making it work.

 

And that just doesn't work. You can't force it, it's a gift from one to the other.

 

Keep thinking. Keep posting. Keep questioning the status quo if it's hurting - not working for you. Do NOT compromise YOURSELF for HIM. (or anyone).

Edited May 21, 2012 by jwi71

[eleanorrigby]

That doesn't make him a monster. It does make him incredibly selfish. It does mean he doesn't really care about anybody but himself. And there are tons of people in this world that fit that description, it's not all that unusual. I've learned you take most people for what they are or don't take them at all.

 

But is that what you really want in a partner?

 

He's edging pretty close to monster in my mind. Did he wife actually get "fixed" (smh) If she did do this and then he went out and got a vasectomy knowing that she wanted to have kids... and he's cheating too? oh wow. Seriously?

[frozensprouts]

it seems like he really doesn't want kids, which is his prerogative. Unfortuneately, he's made the choice for you that you'll never have kids. If he can't tslk to you about something that major, what does that tell you about him?

 

if i were you, and what he did bothered me, i'd bring it up in counseling. you shouldn't have to push your feelings down just to make him happy. your feelings matter too.

[herenow]

it seems like he really doesn't want kids, which is his prerogative. Unfortunately, he's made the choice for you that you'll never have kids. If he can't talk to you about something that major, what does that tell you about him?

 

if i were you, and what he did bothered me, i'd bring it up in counseling. you shouldn't have to push your feelings down just to make him happy. your feelings matter too.

 

But he did tell her that he does not want kids. He thought Daisy would be happy with his decision because it sounds like they had an agreement that they would not be having kids.

 

He has not made any choice for Daisy. She holds her future in her hands. If she wants kids, then she has the choice to move on. If she makes the choice to stay with him, then she is fully aware that he has taken steps to make sure that HE isn't going to have any children.

 

IMO, he has done her a favor. Daisy knows the truth and she knows that it is very unlikely he will change his mind. I have known women who get married to a man who does not want children. They (the women) believe that these men will change their minds. Or, these men can be talked into wanting children at a later date. It never ends well.

[daisy love]

Daisy, I want to ask you a hard question. Do you feel like he really loves YOU or do you feel more like he loves the image of you being his arm candy? I get the sense that it's hard for you to be your true self with him and you are afraid you will be discardable if you make too many demands on him. If you feel that way, that is putting you in the position of being the one with a lot less power and that you don't work now further weakens you in this regard. Also if you are traveling with him, how can you not be seen as his g/f? Also does he need to keep the image of a player in his profession?

I think he really loves me. He could have any girl, and he chose me. He must love me. We travel now like we did during the A. It's no different now than it was then which makes me pretty mad. I go shopping or site seeing during the day while he works. When he's done with work, we have sex then maybe go for dinner or get room service.

[Mme. Chaucer]

He could have any girl, and he chose me

 

You could have any guy, and you chose him. I mean, no one can really have "any" girl or guy, but you were / are in a better position for that than he was / is.

 

We travel now like we did during the A. It's no different now than it was then which makes me pretty mad.

 

Sadly but truly, people show who they are and how they might behave as the relationship progresses.

 

I'm glad he is willing to be in couples counseling with you.

 

Please don't give up all of your dreams for your own life and bend over backwards to keep "earning" his love. I feel that there is a huge power imbalance in this relationship.

 

And please please listen and take the advice about getting self - reliant financially. Being completely dependent and "available" is not a healthy thing to base your life upon, no matter what he wants you to do.

 

If he loves you, he will also love that you are working on taking care of yourself so you can have a better life, even if it's hard for him.

 

Regarding the vasectomy - going forward with it without letting you know was not a good way to behave for a person who is fully invested in partnership with another person. That said, I believe he felt like you were on the same page about it. Also, I think you should talk openly about your feelings regarding it. Having children or not is a huge and important issue between people.

[frozensprouts]

But he did tell her that he does not want kids. He thought Daisy would be happy with his decision because it sounds like they had an agreement that they would not be having kids.

 

He has not made any choice for Daisy. She holds her future in her hands. If she wants kids, then she has the choice to move on. If she makes the choice to stay with him, then she is fully aware that he has taken steps to make sure that HE isn't going to have any children.

 

IMO, he has done her a favor. Daisy knows the truth and she knows that it is very unlikely he will change his mind. I have known women who get married to a man who does not want children. They (the women) believe that these men will change their minds. Or, these men can be talked into wanting children at a later date. It never ends well.

 

I guess I didn't word that very well. what I meant was that if she wants to stay with him ( which one would hope is what he wants), he has effectively taken away her right to choose if she has children or not. as long as she chooses him, she will not be able to make the choice for herself about having kids. He didn't even really talk to her before haing the procedure..in my view, this shows a lack of respect and communication his part. She deserves better than to be treated like that.

[xxoo]

Daisy, do you see him for who he really is, or the image you want to see of him?

 

Having kids is one example. You assumed that was just how he was with the ex, and it would be different with you. Are there other examples? Other ways you are hoping he will be different with you?

 

Interrelated, do you show him who you really are, or just the image of you that he wants to see? You are questioning whether you should speak up about your hurt. Why wouldn't you speak up? Why wouldn't you feel safe to talk through your feelings?

 

Are there other example of ways you choose not to speak up, in order to keep the peace, or maintain an image with him?

 

You could be setting up a relationship where YOU eventually cheat, with someone who "gets you" and with whom you can speak your mind, and feel accepted as you are.

[CarboniteCammy]

Daisy, you sound quite young.

 

Once, when I was much younger then I am now, I dated a man that was 20 years older then I was. He was very opinionated, and I very malleable. Because I grew up with a lack of a father, it was fufilling to me to spend time with an older man who seemed to know how the world should work.

 

In time, he became very attached to me, but I became bored of my relationship with him. I wanted to go out and go drinking, go to concerts, travel to different cities, and hang out with people my own age. Eventually, we started having fights where his overbearing manner became too much for me to handle, and I cut the relationship off. I became tired of tailoring my opinions to suit his.

 

He thought that because I was so much younger, he could bully me into always doing what he wanted. He learned the hard way that was not the case.

[Got it]

I guess I didn't word that very well. what I meant was that if she wants to stay with him ( which one would hope is what he wants), he has effectively taken away her right to choose if she has children or not. as long as she chooses him, she will not be able to make the choice for herself about having kids. He didn't even really talk to her before haing the procedure..in my view, this shows a lack of respect and communication his part. She deserves better than to be treated like that.

 

Not to be too nit picky but this isn't actually 100% true. One they could adopt and two he could reverse it. It is fairly easy to reverse for a number of years. But I agree that he showed a lack of respect and acknowledgement of her beliefs, opinions, and feelings.

 

Ultimately she still has the choice to have children but with a different partner or in a different route.

[Got it]

I think he really loves me. He could have any girl, and he chose me. He must love me. We travel now like we did during the A. It's no different now than it was then which makes me pretty mad. I go shopping or site seeing during the day while he works. When he's done with work, we have sex then maybe go for dinner or get room service.

 

Daisy, does this satisfy you for your life? What do you feel defines you? What makes you uniquely you? If someone loves someone they want to help better them, do you feel he does that? Does he support and encourage your wants, needs, and dreams? What do you envision for your life 5/10/30 years from now? Who do you want to be?