browneyedgirl219 Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 A little background......the man I am involved with I have known for 17 years..15 years ago I developed a teenage crush on him and it never went away but instead it grew as I did. I never crossed the line, I knew his entire family as well as his wife so I have always admired\cared about\loved him from afar. We have always had a good friendship and recently we have gotten much closer and he admitted he has had feelings for me for many years as well. We have both become very emotionally involved with each other and we can't go more than a few hours without talking/texting. We have confided in each other about our most personal issues and we can't imagine losing each other. He wants a divorcedfrom his wife...they were married 16 years ago together for almost 19 years... for the last 15 years she has consistently cheated on him non stop and had numerous very involved affairs with multiple men. He was never willing to divorce her because they had small children but now he feels differently because the children are grown and he is ready for a divorce finances are making it difficult. We are hoping that it will be done before the end of the year. *fingers crossed* Our relationship is very emotional we are very close and absolutely crazy about each other but I have made a few rules and I am wondering what everyone thinks about them... -First of all we do not have sex.... you probably don't believe it but we have not. I feel even though we are seeing each other he is still married and that is 1 line I'm not willing to cross. So we are waiting until they get divorced. - Second when he is around his wife and his family we don't talk.... I feel like a while they are still married when they have family time it should be strictly family time...no me intruding during family dinners with a text etc. - Third he knows how crazy I am about him and how strongly I feel for him but even though I do I will not tell him that I love him.... I told him that the day his divorce is final I'll tell him I love him and I'll tell him every single day and many times a day as I possibly can.... not necessarily a rule it just seems right and it gives us something special to look forward to. Now for general information his wife does not know that he and I are seeing each other... personally I don't think it matters he knows about all her affairs and she has never tried very hard to hide them but I want to protect him and I'm doing my best not to give her a reason to question anything he does so when they do divorce she cant use me against him.... is a good man and he does not want their divorce to be messy. I don't really know what I'm looking for with this thread I guess I'm just curious about what other people think about my rules and how I am/we are handeling this relationship.
MissBee Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) I think what you've done is smart. I think that with the boundaries you have set for yourself, you have made it such that your increased investment is dependent upon him following through with his divorce. This is a great plan and can only be beneficial to you and will most likely increase your chances of success. Reason being, is that you're not already giving him so much that he can get complacent and decide to stay married and have his cake and eat it too, and you're not giving yourself in your entirety to a man who is not fully available to you. If he chooses to not divorce...you won't feel as badly as one who was having sex, saying I love you's and doing the whole nine yards and still comes up empty handed. You have made it such that if he wants you, and wants your body, your I love yous and your serious involvement with him as a legitimate girlfriend...he has to in fact make you one. I think your situation is more of an example of being "caught in an A" and then making smart decisions to quickly end it being an A and working with the limitations, by also limiting certain aspects until you can have an open and honest setup. If most OW/OM set such boundaries, I think less would be waiting in vain or giving so much and investing in a situation that is a high risk. I see your situation as a lot more empowering and shows a lot more self respect than most A situations. Keep it up! Edited May 21, 2012 by MissBee 1
carhill Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Welcome to LS Given the circumstances, your boundaries sound reasonable, though I must say I'm surprised by yours and a similar thread tonight where love is not overtly expressed and there is no sex. It's a pretty rare MM who invests in an affair without sex. Being one of them (former) and listening to people for a lifetime, I know how rare it is. So, where to go from here? IME, being divorced in the last couple years (affair was a factor in that), finances were finalized during the process. Filing is easy, so there's no real reason to not do that if he's indeed serious about ending the M. That's an action I'd look to match up with words. Here in Cali, about a week after the filing was recorded, anyone knowing my name or the case summary number could look it up on the court's web site. Pretty cool Another potential sticky point. Say he does divorce. Say you begin to be seen with him. You're not a stranger. You're someone his family has known for years. His children know you. Etc, Etc. Could get sticky. I saw this first hand with a MW, later OW, who didn't quite wait for her BF's D to become involved with him. At the point I reconnected with her, they were six years in and his family generally vacillated from hate to uneasy tolerance. About the time she disconnected me at ten years in, they were finally appearing to accept her (by my observation of their actions). I'm sure others will have helpful input. Good luck.
Furious Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Do you have first hand knowledge that his wife had cheated on him, or is this only what he has told you?
MissBee Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Do you have first hand knowledge that his wife had cheated on him, or is this only what he has told you? I was also curious about this...whether this was verifiable or some elaborate lie. 1
carhill Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 OP, in the same line of questioning, could you clarify a relevant item for me, too? You said you 'knew' his family, his wife. When was your most recent direct contact with his family?
Emme Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Now for general information his wife does not know that he and I are seeing each other... personally I don't think it matters he knows about all her affairs and she has never tried very hard to hide them but I want to protect him and I'm doing my best not to give her a reason to question anything he does so when they do divorce she cant use me against him.... is a good man and he does not want their divorce to be messy. Great rules. I just want to say a few things. The information that you are with her husband does matter. I don't care that it's not sexual. It matters. You are in a sense drawing a picture that intends to make him shine in the light of his darkness. He is a cheater, he is a man who chose not to go out of house, he's a liar and a coward. As long as you acknowledge those traits and don't disregard them then you'll be fine. Don't dismiss his actions because you think he's endured so much all these years. Know who he is, recognize it and then accept it. That's all I wanted to say. Tell him to tell his wife. 1
Artie Lang Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 don't commit to anything- especially your body -unless he leaves his wife, like he says he wants to. if he doesn't do this in a matter of months, then he is lying to you. if you see no significant change in his marital status- MOVE ON! you're much too young to put your life on hold. how many years apart are you guys, anyway? 1
Author browneyedgirl219 Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Emme- Sorry I should have specified he has told her that he seeing someone (or talking to someone if u will) he just has not told her WHO he is seeing. Miss Bee/Furious- Yes I do have first hand knowledge of her affairs I have a very large family and 4 of her affairs has been with men I am related too. I knew about all of that before he ever told me. Carhill- My comment about finances should have been more specific... They both have retained divorce lawyers But they have not filed the papers yet. Neither one wants to agree to the others terms. He has agreed that she will get the house and everything in it and her cars... the wife recently came into a very very large sum of money (well over $100,000 and yes I know for sure she told me herself the last time I saw her) and she feels that she should not have to give him a penny. He has fully supported her since before they got married... he doesn't even want a quarter he only wants enough money (I saw the papers he had made he asks for $5000) so he can go out and find a place live with out living paycheck to paycheck while he gets back on his feet and he wants his car and truck. If I missed anything sorry!! :-)
Author browneyedgirl219 Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Oh and before anyone asks we have been "talking" or what not for 2 months...the last time I saw and spoke to his wife was over 5 months ago.
Author browneyedgirl219 Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Artie im 27 he's 38. As for contact..hate to use Facebook but him, his kids( all 3), his wife, and his mom are all on my friends list. His mom and my grandmother were very close so I've known him pretty much my whole life.
Furious Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 It still doesn't add up... He is giving up the house, only wants 5 grand and his truck. Seems like most everyone has slept with his wife. So how is it possible, you want to protect him, and why he is worried the divorce might get messy?
Trimmer Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 My questions are about the specific status of their marriage... Has he filed for divorce yet? Your statements are not very specific: He wants a divorce from his wife... ... he is ready for a divorce... ...hoping that it will be done before the end of the year. Nothing here indicates whether the divorce process has actually started, or whether he is only talking - maybe only to you? - about an imagined divorce some time in the future. Where does this all stand? Third he knows how crazy I am about him and how strongly I feel for him but even though I do I will not tell him that I love him.... I told him that the day his divorce is final I'll tell him I love him and I'll tell him every single day and many times a day as I possibly can.... not necessarily a rule it just seems right and it gives us something special to look forward to. In terms of the affair dynamic, not speaking the specific words "I love you" isn't really much of a boundary if he knows you are crazy about him, and dying to tell him anyway. If he's just dangling the idea of the divorce out there to keep you on the hook, without really intending to do it (or without having the strength...) then knowing you are crazy about him is just as good as having you say "I love you." I'm not saying that I'm sure he's just stringing you along, but how many times on these boards do we see that? Unless the ink is on the paper and the petition for dissolution is on file down at the county recorder, all parties are moving forward (whether willingly or reluctantly) then you aren't with a divorcing man, you are with a "thinking-about-divorce-but-she-doesn't-know-it-yet" man, and that kind of man can stay STUCK in that status for a long time.
2sunny Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 You can't protect him - it's not possible. The truth always comes out. If he weren't involved with you - there would be nothing to "protect". If you take the emotions out of a divorce - its simply dissolving a business agreement. And no one needs to AGREE to divorce terms in order to FILE - so I cal BS on that excuse. The judge decides in the end if the two married folks can't agree AFTER filing. But they haven't even started the process since they haven't filed. I think he's lying. My bs meter is going off. Step away and stay out of it until his divorce is FINAL. Less harm to YOU that way. IF he intends to divorce - then maybe he will get on it and file so it has a chance of becoming final sooner rather than never. Right now - its ALL talk - no action. Wich only amounts to a ton of pain for you. I would stay away.
2sunny Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) And there's NO reason why he shouldn't get half of their assets (house, car etc). His willingness to forfeit everything (or nearly everything) shows guilt on his behalf. I don't think he's being honest with you at all. This all sounds very out of balance for many reasons. And you NOT texting him while he's at home is just more lying and cover up. Yet you do him this favor liike you're honoring their "family time"? Nope! It's just sneaky so he doesn't get caught. And you participate in the sneakiness by going along with that. When there's nothing to hide - people hide nothing. So you know this is wrong. IF you want to honor their family time - don't ever communicate with this MM again - or any married man for that matter. You are fooling yourself with your loose and false boundaries. You may think you're being honorable - but IF you really were being honorable - you wouldn't be involved and tempting a MM to consider leaving his family. His wife cheating seems far fetched. Why has he put up with that crap all these years? If she put the money she got into a joint account -thenby law half that money may be legally half his. But he'd already know the lawsabout that if he'd really retained an attorney. I think he's playing you. I hope I'm wrong. Edited May 21, 2012 by 2sunny
Emme Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Emme- Sorry I should have specified he has told her that he seeing someone (or talking to someone if u will) he just has not told her WHO he is seeing. No no no... Seeing someone is not the same as seeing you. Fact. Your list of rules is missing a few things. Add the rule of no longer socializing with a family you plan on bringing to an end. Regardless if the children are grown. Add the rule that your man needs to be a "honest hoe" just like his wife was and confess. Those rules are the ones I want you to add. For your safety its best that this summer and no other time you continue to socialize with his family.
Trimmer Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 I see now that you already answered the question of whether they have started the divorce process - I could have sworn that wasn't posted when I posted my question, and I don't think I took a whole hour composing my post last night, but maybe I missed it somehow. Anyway, question answered, sorry for the rehash. It still doesn't add up... He is giving up the house, only wants 5 grand and his truck. These days, with housing prices having fallen in many places, we can't assume that "giving her the house" is necessarily a generous thing. From a net worth perspective, "giving her the house" really means "giving her the equity in the house" - a number which could be big or small, nearly zero, or it could be negative, depending on the current value of the house and the mortgage debt outstanding. So we can't conclude anything about this move without knowing more about the financial status of their house and its mortgage(s). Heck, if the house is underwater, then it might be a very sensible move, if he can walk away with his truck and $5k and say "I'm giving you the house!" If I were him, I'd take that deal any day. On the other hand, if I were her lawyer, I wouldn't consider letting her take that deal for a minute, without calculating in some compensating factors to balance the debt she'd be taking on.
Author browneyedgirl219 Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 I stayed in my previous marriage for the kids so I understand where he's coming from on that front. Thanks for all the advice. Got good news today...he went and filed friday since the wife is dragging her feet. He waited to tell me so I could even call to check if I wanted too which I did. Im glad he did it :-) Too add some confusion...the father of my kids called me today and told me how wrong he realizes he treated me and he'd give anything to have me give him another chance. Im crazy about the MM but I don't know what to do about this new mess. So confused now ugh
MissBee Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 I stayed in my previous marriage for the kids so I understand where he's coming from on that front. Thanks for all the advice. Got good news today...he went and filed friday since the wife is dragging her feet. He waited to tell me so I could even call to check if I wanted too which I did. Im glad he did it :-) Too add some confusion...the father of my kids called me today and told me how wrong he realizes he treated me and he'd give anything to have me give him another chance. Im crazy about the MM but I don't know what to do about this new mess. So confused now ugh Happy that your MM is following through promptly on his promises. Interesting turn of events, so question: do you think you are over your kids' father? I'd imagine if you were and were fully into your MM there would be no choice in the matter and you'd have nothing to think about. If any of my exes came back now for a second chance I'd think they were insane and laugh it off and move on. If you don't feel the same why is that so you think? Or is any of your hesitation based on the possibility that it would be great for your kids to have both their parents in a relationship? Or is it about you and your feelings for him as well?
Trimmer Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 If any of my exes came back now for a second chance I'd think they were insane and laugh it off and move on. Man oh man.... Quoted for truth...
Artie Lang Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 wow! this guy is more than 10 years your senior. i know love has no age barrier, but.....
whichwayisup Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 I stayed in my previous marriage for the kids so I understand where he's coming from on that front. Thanks for all the advice. Got good news today...he went and filed friday since the wife is dragging her feet. He waited to tell me so I could even call to check if I wanted too which I did. Im glad he did it :-) Too add some confusion...the father of my kids called me today and told me how wrong he realizes he treated me and he'd give anything to have me give him another chance. Im crazy about the MM but I don't know what to do about this new mess. So confused now ugh Do you see how pushing your MM or rushing him isn't good? HE IS torn and confused too.. Keep that in mind, k. You both have marriages ending, so this whole thing is going to take time and a lot of healing/grieving to work through. Did he show you the filed papers, or copies of them? Or is this just what he told you?
2sunny Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 It's beat to wait until the D is FINAL. And sincehes not being totally honest with his W - that is concerning regarding his lack of character.
Furious Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Are you divorced, and do you still have feelings for the father of your children?
Author browneyedgirl219 Posted May 24, 2012 Author Posted May 24, 2012 I'm headed to work so I don't have time to answer all the questions but here is the shortened version and I'm doing this voice to text so if there is a mistake I'm sorry the children are 21 and 19 they got started very early like I did. The house cost $150,000 and they owe $100,00 on it still I have done a lot of soul searching and I have decided to call it quits. I did care about him but I need to do what's best for me. As for my ex we talked for a very long time last night and I'm considering getting him 1 more shot. It's almost like he had an epiphany and realized all the things he has done wrong by being just selfish and basically a dick lol If we do try again though I'm not just going to go running back home he is definitely going to have to prove to me than our relationship will be 50/50. He is really going to have to work for it. Not gonna get into a whole lot of detail right now but I can honestly say I would like it to work no I'm gonna cross my fingers and see what happens the next few weeks.
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