Moving from EA to PA?

[xLadyBirdx]

I've lurked for years, but this is my first post. A little about my situation... I have been in an EA with a MM for about 4 years now. We met at work (I was married at that time) and we 'just friends'. Then, after spending alot of time together, I realized (after lurking here) that we're having an EA. Of course, I should have known that's what was happening, because I had been in an EA a few years before that (again with a coworker) and that ended like most do - with my feeling in shambles.

 

To date, I haven't had any physical contact with this MM but we have taken short trips together (3-4 days) a couple of times in the past 2 years. Lately, we've discussed taking a longer trip and transitioning the R into a physical one later this year.

 

Of course, everything in my head tells me that's a bad idea, but I would like to get some feedback from folks who made the transition from EA to PA... why did you do it, because I am almost certain I will regret it once I take that step.

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[carhill]

Welcome to LS

 

Currently, how do you feel about the EA? As you've had one in the past, what, if anything, is different about this one? Why?

 

This is not a loaded question; as a fOM and fMM, I think it's relevant to understanding the dynamic.

[MissBee]

If everything in your head tells you it is a bad idea, and if in the past it was, then most likely you know more than we do, and most likely it is a bad idea. However, if you have no plans of ending your A, I suppose a PA is no more hurtful than an EA. Although it may be, as adding sex may increase those bonding feelings. Not sure what your goal is for the A, whether you love him, consider him your boyfriend or you strictly see it as an A or what...but if you have feelings for him and then add the sex, then I am certain you will have upped the ante on everything- pain, it turning out in shambles etc.

Edited May 21, 2012 by MissBee

[Emme]

When did I transition from having an emotional relationship to a physical one... It's simple... I was horny. Being friends with someone at first you just look for it to be flirtation and then it's not enough. You get greedy because you want more. The satisfaction is minimal and then you have to move forward. You do it when you turn into a horny toad.

[xLadyBirdx]

@carhill - This EA is different because, quite honestly, the first one didn't have any kind of decent foundation of friendship. He approached me and I, initially, friendzoned him then got to know him better. With this one, we were professional peers, both married and we bonded as friends before we started overbonding (as much as one can overbond with a MM).

 

@MissBee - you hit the key issue I'm having, I believe (though I guess I never thought about it like that). I don't believe I love him now and I'm afraid that I will if we move to PA. I've been trying to keep myself limited in that respect because I don't see him moving forward with leaving as quickly as I thought he would. In my mind I think I am fooling myself into thinking I can avoid the full blown A but, at the same time, I don't actually want to avoid it because of how I feel about him. I just happen to believe that most As end badly for the OW, so not sure I see any reason one with him would be any different.

 

Apologies for rambling or if I'm not being clear.

[whichwayisup]

Of course, everything in my head tells me that's a bad idea

 

Don't do it. Since you've been reading on LS for a quite a while, I assume you know what you're up against and the pain, the heartache you'll feel.. Also the possibility of his wife finding out, people at work finding out and ruining your reputation.

 

Listen to your head and from past experience you were hurt while having an EA.. Changing your EA with your current MM to a PA is asking for trouble. But you do know this..

 

Think long term, not in the heat of the moment. So what if he makes you feel good and you enjoy his company.. He shouldn't be offering himself up to you as he has a ring on his finger. You know he's married so with that said, I do hope you take time to think this through and IF you choose go down that path with him, OWN your part in all this. It takes two to make an affair. Though I do hope you change your mind and walk away.

[xLadyBirdx]

Emme, I can relate to that because the sexual tension is getting to be a bit much (though it's a big part of the excitement of the EA). I agree I'm most likely getting greedy because I want more.

[carhill]

So, four year EA and no ILY's? Four years is a long time, especially for co-workers in regular contact.

 

So, to characterize your current feelings, you don't love him but fear you might if you have sex?

 

BTW, any kissing or physical affection? Just trying to get a feel for things. I never had genital sex with any of my MW's but, by LS standards, I guess they were PA's, since we did share physical affection.

 

During the four years, did you date any other men and/or have any other relationships after your marriage ended?

[xLadyBirdx]

Y'all are saying what I tell myself almost every day but I am nowhere near ready to walk away right now. THAT even sounds crazy to ME when I see it typed up (hence the reason it has taken me so long to post in here). I'm not taking the advice I would give a good friend; I need to figure out what all that's about from my perspective.

[carhill]

I need to figure out what all that's about from my perspective.

 

Exactly

 

I did this in MC.

[xLadyBirdx]

To clarify, we met at work but have not worked together in 3 years. No kissing or any other physical contact beyond hugs... No ILYs.

 

I haven't had any other relationships after my marriage ended. I just didn't want to be bothered with an actual R, plus this situation consumes a decent amount of my energy, time, etc.

[whichwayisup]

Y'all are saying what I tell myself almost every day but I am nowhere near ready to walk away right now. THAT even sounds crazy to ME when I see it typed up (hence the reason it has taken me so long to post in here). I'm not taking the advice I would give a good friend; I need to figure out what all that's about from my perspective.

 

Why can't you walk away? You don't have to answer here, but you should figure out why you'd want to help this man betray his wife, hurt her and help him go against his vows. Ask yourself why you'd be OK sharing him with his wife. Ask yourself why you'd allow this to happen knowing that the chances are quite high that he'll never leave and be all yours, and 100 percent chance YOU will be hurt.

 

Lusting and having a sexual attraction to someone who is married is asking for a whole world of trouble, pain and heartache. This isn't just about you and how you feel and what you'll get out of this. Think outside the box, think long term and those who are going to be hurt, innocent people who didn't ask for their lives to be turned upside down because a husband and father cheated and broke up the family unit. Yes, I'm taking it to the extreme because most affairs DO get found out about.

[carhill]

OK, so no ILY's nor overt physical demonstrations of love; additionally, you state clearly that you do not love him. For yourself, what would delineate this dynamic from a strong and healthy friendship without romantic overtones? Examples might be flirting with intent; infatuation; secrecy, etc. Also, has he ever, notwithstanding lack of ILY, ever shared clearly how he feels about you? If so, different than your feelings?

 

Since you're here seeking input, it's clear you're not ready to make a choice today. However, if you were to make a choice today, which way are you currently leaning and why? I ask because people often say things are a 'bad idea' but still feel impelled to act in contravention of their analysis. How does it go for you right now?

[xLadyBirdx]

whichwayisup, their marriage is ending (he found out about her A, ironically) and have put the house on the market but he has not moved out, nor has he filed. I take most things MMs say with a grain of salt so I will believe they are truly divorcing when its final. Quite honestly, I do feel badly for the kids, but that situation was going downhill long before I came into the picture.

 

Either way, though, your points are completely valid and I do need to examine why I am more comfortable with a part-time interest and why I am a bit emotionally unavailable myself (which is not new).

[whichwayisup]

whichwayisup, their marriage is ending (he found out about her A, ironically) and have put the house on the market but he has not moved out, nor has he filed. I take most things MMs say with a grain of salt so I will believe they are truly divorcing when its final. Quite honestly, I do feel badly for the kids, but that situation was going downhill long before I came into the picture.

 

Either way, though, your points are completely valid and I do need to examine why I am more comfortable with a part-time interest and why I am a bit emotionally unavailable myself (which is not new).

 

Put whatever it is with him on hold and focus on yourself and your reasonings to get involved with someone who's life is a mess right now. One foot in the door and one foot out of the door.. He has nothing to 'give' to you now due to what is going on his life..And i'm sure the last thing you want to be is his 'escape' from his life and problems.

 

Honesty, if you think there's something there and it could lead to a serious relationship, then tell him NO sex until the D is final and he's had some time to sort through stuff (kids, being on his own), give him that space. To rush into a sexual affair with him is not a good situation as it'll hurt you.

 

Or are you not looking for long term love? Do you think you deserve less? Are you afraid of falling in love? All stuff you need to think about.

 

Whatever his reasons are for cheating on his wife, even though the house is on the market - HE still is there and they are living life together. Anything can happen..so this is why you need to focus on your life and not his as that's completely out of your hands and you have no say or control over what happens at home with his wife.

[xLadyBirdx]

For yourself, what would delineate this dynamic from a strong and healthy friendship without romantic overtones? I have really great, long-term friendships with a couple of men and, for me, the delineation is that there is no sexual tension, no attraction, I am friends with their spouses, our children interact. With this one, our lives are only integrated in a limited fashionm (though my parents know him).

 

Also, has he ever, notwithstanding lack of ILY, ever shared clearly how he feels about you? No, he's generic "you are special to me", "we have a special relationship"... I don't say anything like that and I don't really respond when he says those things.

 

if you were to make a choice today, which way are you currently leaning and why? I am leaning towards moving forward to the PA, honestly, even knowing everything I know and understanding the odds against 'success, however that would be defined.

 

That's where I am today.

[Emme]

Emme, I can relate to that because the sexual tension is getting to be a bit much (though it's a big part of the excitement of the EA). I agree I'm most likely getting greedy because I want more.

 

Just in case start walking around with a few condoms in your purse. Be prepared.

 

I think since you don't have that much time on your hands this type of relationship suits you. You don't have to worry about any additional stress of a real relationship. My thing is why haven't you lived a little since your divorce? When you say you want him to leave, do you want him to leave his spouse?

[xLadyBirdx]

whichwayisup - "Or are you not looking for long term love? Do you think you deserve less? Are you afraid of falling in love?"

 

I'm struggling with all those right now.

[xLadyBirdx]

Emme - Yes, I want him to leave his spouse because, quite honestly that's the only reason I let my guard down in the first place. I am usually a pretty guarded person but we bonded over untangling our respective marriages (and other things, but we had that in common). I never anticipated that I would ever even consider actually getting physical with a person that was still living in the house with their spouse - not that the EA is any better, I'm not saying that.

[MissBee]

@carhill - This EA is different because, quite honestly, the first one didn't have any kind of decent foundation of friendship. He approached me and I, initially, friendzoned him then got to know him better. With this one, we were professional peers, both married and we bonded as friends before we started overbonding (as much as one can overbond with a MM).

 

@MissBee - you hit the key issue I'm having, I believe (though I guess I never thought about it like that). I don't believe I love him now and I'm afraid that I will if we move to PA. I've been trying to keep myself limited in that respect because I don't see him moving forward with leaving as quickly as I thought he would. In my mind I think I am fooling myself into thinking I can avoid the full blown A but, at the same time, I don't actually want to avoid it because of how I feel about him. I just happen to believe that most As end badly for the OW, so not sure I see any reason one with him would be any different.

 

Apologies for rambling or if I'm not being clear.

 

Well...if you know all this, you have to make some decisions for yourself about how you will proceed in light of this. I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it too...where you know the truth, you think it is not wise, yet still want him around and want to be with him...but the unfortunate truth is, when we make no decision...we've in fact made a decision. There are not two ways in an A...you're either in the A ready and willing based on the information given and what you feel is likely OR you're not. But being in it, while trying to act like you're not "fully" involved, having an EA but thinking okay as long as it's not a PA etc is only fooling yourself...one doesn't make you less involved than the other..you just have a different kind of involvement when you add the PA. But anyway you slice it, you're in it, you feel it won't work out well most likely...sooo it's up to you to make a decision that is clearly one way or another and not live in grey land.

[xLadyBirdx]

"where you know the truth, you think it is not wise, yet still want him around and want to be with him...but the unfortunate truth is, when we make no decision...we've in fact made a decision."

 

I agree... I really appreciate all the candid feedback (I have had anxiety about posting for the longest but I'm glad I did).

[MissBee]

"where you know the truth, you think it is not wise, yet still want him around and want to be with him...but the unfortunate truth is, when we make no decision...we've in fact made a decision."

 

I agree... I really appreciate all the candid feedback (I have had anxiety about posting for the longest but I'm glad I did).

 

Glad you found it useful

[JustJoe]

Ladybird, are you married, yourself? If so, are you planning on leaving your H or telling him you are cheating?

[carhill]

Upthread, the OP wrote:

 

To clarify, we met at work but have not worked together in 3 years. No kissing or any other physical contact beyond hugs... No ILYs.

 

I haven't had any other relationships after my marriage ended. I just didn't want to be bothered with an actual R, plus this situation consumes a decent amount of my energy, time, etc.

[JustJoe]

Thanks, Carhill, for the clarification. I mis-read it, at first.