Absolving responsibility?

[phoenixlights]

This will probably hit home with some people and was sparked by me, a guy pushing 30 doing laundry and accidentally screwing up a towel since I threw a pair of my fiances new blue jeans in with the load. Naturally, the towel tinted blue and after she got out of the shower when we went for a walk as I'm starting to cook dinner I hear her yelling about the towel being blue. Whoops.

 

During our live-in relationship (together 4 years/lived together 3/getting married in a few months) and while she was in school I've done the lions share of cooking, cleaning and paying the bills. Now that she's done with school she helps out with half of all the bills (not 1/3rd like it was before), which is great, no complaints there. The one thing she still never helps with (but claims she does, even though I see no evidence of it) is cleaning and cooking. I honestly don't mind cleaning and cooking, but we wound up getting into an argument over the blue towel, to which I asked "Why haven't you been able to help me with stuff around here?" Which, yeah, crappy argument and she did tell me a few times before not to put new jeans in with anything else in the wash, however she has just as much free time as me, which is normally spent on the computer, working on her portfolio apparently or joyriding around with friends taking pictures with her new camera. I can literally leave a dish or she can leave a dish on the kitchen counter for days and she makes no attempt to load it into the dishwasher, no attempt to run it, empty it, pick up her clothes, her mail, magazines, books, soda cans etc etc.

 

So question: am I in the wrong here for wanting more help now that she's done with school? I feel like any time I've tried to approach her about it, I'm met with her trying to absolve herself of any responsibility.

[january2011]

am I in the wrong here for wanting more help now that she's done with school? I feel like any time I've tried to approach her about it, I'm met with her trying to absolve herself of any responsibility.

 

Let's not talk about right or wrong. In my opinion, your why question has an underlying accustory tone, which probably put her on the defensive. It is understandable though, given that you sound very frustrated with the current state of affairs. However, you want co-operation so putting her on the defensive is probably not the best approach.

 

The ultimate aim is that all the chores get done within a mutually agreed reasonable amount of time and to a reasonable standard, and you can both pitch in to ensure that you live in a clean and healthy environment. You're in this together. So talk to her about sharing the chores and ask her which chores she would like to do - there may be some that will come naturally to her, that she enjoys doing - find out what these are. Draw up a list if you have to and work your way through it.

 

Not everyone is fan of housework and not everyone has the same standards when it comes to housework, but if she absolutely refuses to pitch in at all and/or you cannot come to an agreement about what is reasonable about of time and standard, then I think you've come to a crossroads and a potential dealbreaker. In this case, her attitude indicates that she does not care or want to take responsibility for your shared environment. Perhaps the tip of the iceberg, implying some deeper underlying issues regarding your relationship.

[xxoo]

While I'm happy to do laundry for my partner, complaining about how you do her laundry could be justification for his and hers hampers. You each can do (or not do) your own laundry.

[HHC]

Chores has always been an issue people fight over and I have yet to find a couple who doesn't.

 

Even though we have set shores that we do and the other doesnt sometimes one or both are slack and it causes issues.

 

First thing you need to do is find out what you're both okay with doing.

 

For me? I have no issues putting on and sorting the laundry.

 

Then you find out what you each hate hate hate HATE doing.

 

For me? I hate washing up.

 

So guess what? I do the washing most of the time and he does the washing most of the time. He hates hates HATES sweeping the floor, so I do that.

 

It's about finding a balance and it's not always about sharing a task, but taking on one over the other

[d'Arthez]

While I'm happy to do laundry for my partner, complaining about how you do her laundry could be justification for his and hers hampers. You each can do (or not do) your own laundry.

That can only work to some extent. Some people leave their clothes in every room of the house. My ex had developed that skill to perfection.

 

Otherwise January2011 is spot on.

[phoenixlights]

While I'm happy to do laundry for my partner, complaining about how you do her laundry could be justification for his and hers hampers. You each can do (or not do) your own laundry.

 

Let's not talk about right or wrong. In my opinion, your why question has an underlying accustory tone, which probably put her on the defensive. It is understandable though, given that you sound very frustrated with the current state of affairs. However, you want co-operation so putting her on the defensive is probably not the best approach.

 

The ultimate aim is that all the chores get done within a mutually agreed reasonable amount of time and to a reasonable standard, and you can both pitch in to ensure that you live in a clean and healthy environment. You're in this together. So talk to her about sharing the chores and ask her which chores she would like to do - there may be some that will come naturally to her, that she enjoys doing - find out what these are. Draw up a list if you have to and work your way through it.

 

Not everyone is fan of housework and not everyone has the same standards when it comes to housework, but if she absolutely refuses to pitch in at all and/or you cannot come to an agreement about what is reasonable about of time and standard, then I think you've come to a crossroads and a potential dealbreaker. In this case, her attitude indicates that she does not care or want to take responsibility for your shared environment. Perhaps the tip of the iceberg, implying some deeper underlying issues regarding your relationship.

 

Yes, trying to go about it in a neutral situation is better. I brought it up when she was upset about me wrecking a $30 towel she bought for our condo and she had told me a few times before to not put jeans in with light colored things, even towels. I kind of messed up a set of bedsheets she bought too. I guess I'm just incompetent. Normally I don't screw anything up though.

 

I've brought up chores and cleaning several times, but it's almost like hitting a brick wall every time. Even suggesting a chores list, which just got her scoffing at that idea and claiming "I wouldn't do anything and she'd get stuck doing evertying." Clearly not true. The only thing I really hate doing is cleaning the bathroom, but I still do it. She doesn't like doing any housecleaning, cooking etc and claims she's either too tired or too busy. Maybe once every 2 months she goes into a super clean mode and usually just cleans our guest room which serves as her office. Currently it's messier than most teenagers rooms (ie. you have to walk over things when you walk into the room and the floor is almost invisible). That's about all she does though and I think that she thinks that's enough. I'm just glad that mess stays in that room for the most part. She even claimed the amount of work she does in that one time every once in a while she does clean, she does more than I do in a month. Which is probably true, but only due to the sheer volume of things in that guest room and the sheer amount of clothes. I'm slowly accepting it's something that's not going to change with her. Her mother is a fairly messy person, so I'm sure that's where she got it from and why she's okay living in chaos.

Edited May 21, 2012 by phoenixlights

[whichwayisup]

She needs to get over the towel incident. Holy crap! It's not like you did her laundry and shrunk or dyed one of her favourite outfits! It's a towel!! She is over reacting.

 

Rule we have in our house.. Whoever cooks, the other person does the dishes afterwards.

We BOTH clean up the house, we BOTH do laundry.. It's only a big deal if you two let it be.

 

There's no reason why she can't clean up. Unless she's lazy and is now used to you doing it all, which is unfair.

[carhill]

Think long and hard about the marriage part.

[watsluvgot2dowitit]

You aren't wrong at all. You guys need to figure out how to nip this in the bud or risk losing your relationship. I know people figure its a petty annoyance that can be overlooked, but its far from the truth. Many years and months of the same petty annoyance becomes a ball and chain so to speak. You'll get tired and it'll all come out in the worse way one day. It isn't going to be easy to break her habit of not helping out, she is used to you doing everything and well 'why do it if someone else is doing it for me' is the attitude that most perpetrators take in these situations. I would strongly advise that you only do for you and it will be very hard to do, but you have to. Only wash your clothes, only make your dinner only wash your dish and when she inquires (and she will) inform her that she makes 50% of the messes so its 50% her job to help out and that until she starts helping out, you will only cook and pickup after yourself. If she rebuttals tell her she must start helping out and that is all there is to it then refuse to discuss it any further. She will do things to anger you while you are doing this, but if you stick with it this will not be an issue again.

[Radu]

As january and carhill pointed out, this is just the tip of the iceberg and you need to think damn long about marriage.

 

It's not so much that you do it, it's that you don't get credit for it and she expects to be taken care off.

The bad thing about this, is that if her mother was this way ... she won't change because she is used to living in a complete mess.

[xxoo]

That can only work to some extent. Some people leave their clothes in every room of the house. My ex had developed that skill to perfection.

 

If the strewn clothes bother you (it would bother me), you can still gather and put them in a hamper without actually doing their laundry.

 

Maybe once every 2 months she goes into a super clean mode and usually just cleans our guest room which serves as her office. Currently it's messier than most teenagers rooms (ie. you have to walk over things when you walk into the room and the floor is almost invisible). That's about all she does though and I think that she thinks that's enough. I'm just glad that mess stays in that room for the most part. She even claimed the amount of work she does in that one time every once in a while she does clean, she does more than I do in a month. Which is probably true, but only due to the sheer volume of things in that guest room and the sheer amount of clothes. I'm slowly accepting it's something that's not going to change with her. Her mother is a fairly messy person, so I'm sure that's where she got it from and why she's okay living in chaos.

 

It sounds like she hasn't yet learned how to be tidy and "maintenance clean". It is a learned skill.

 

Cleaning her own office is one thing, but what about all the other shared spaces she uses?

 

Can you afford to split the cost of a housekeeper? The housekeeper should not be responsible for the office, unless gf manages to keep it reasonably tidy.

 

As far as marriage goes--how well you communicate about this issue, and come up with workable solutions, is more important than how tidy each of you is, or who does what. Right now, it sounds like you are having difficulty communicating effectively, and that does not bode well for marriage.

[Danie]

Maybe not the best approach but it worked for us. Long ago, when we first started living together my husband complained about spotty dishes (more than once) and I told him that if he didn’t like the way I did the dishes he could do them himself. I used to do all the laundry and when he complained about how I did the laundry I told him that if he didn’t like the way I did it he could do it. Well, after all of our negotiations keeping the kitchen clean is my job and keep the clothing clean is his job. He does the bathrooms (he’s completely anal about the bathroom) I keep the basement clean (he has bad allergies and the dust isn’t good for him). Everything else is pretty much shared….except car work and party planning. Basically it was years and years of negotiations that got us here. It took a few arguments, too.

 

IMO, it’s petty and wasteful to not do a full load of laundry if there’s a full load to be done. Don’t get petty on her. Talk to her, tell her what you need her to hear, let it be. If she doesn’t change within x amount of time, either talk to her again (with more emphasis) or leave her. Let her know the importance of PARTNERSHIPS in marriage (well before you actually get married). Don’t get petty, you’re a bigger man than that.

[soserious1]

I was the sole bread winner in my marriage but my husband made it crystal clear that my working was not an allowance to get out of doing housework & sharing in the cooking, grocery shopping.

 

If he cooked & I left the dishes in the sink, in the morning I'd find those dirty dishes dumped on my desk. If I left my dirty clothing laying around, I could expect to retrieve it from the trash can. If I left cosmetics strewn about the bathroom vanity I could expect them to be dumped into the toilet. The most memorable occasion was when he called me to dinner & there in my chair was the cat box that I'd neglected to scoop out.

 

He made his position very clear "Look biatch, I don't care what you do for a living, I'm not your man servant & won't tolerate your messes in common areas. Clean it up because if I'm falling over it or offended by smelling it, into the trash it goes."

 

You need to man up & take ACTION to show her that this isn't acceptable to you. Trust me when I tell you that I developed a keen interest in doing my share after he started enforcing consequences for not doing so.

[phoenixlights]

I was the sole bread winner in my marriage but my husband made it crystal clear that my working was not an allowance to get out of doing housework & sharing in the cooking, grocery shopping.

 

If he cooked & I left the dishes in the sink, in the morning I'd find those dirty dishes dumped on my desk. If I left my dirty clothing laying around, I could expect to retrieve it from the trash can. If I left cosmetics strewn about the bathroom vanity I could expect them to be dumped into the toilet. The most memorable occasion was when he called me to dinner & there in my chair was the cat box that I'd neglected to scoop out.

 

He made his position very clear "Look biatch, I don't care what you do for a living, I'm not your man servant & won't tolerate your messes in common areas. Clean it up because if I'm falling over it or offended by smelling it, into the trash it goes."

 

You need to man up & take ACTION to show her that this isn't acceptable to you. Trust me when I tell you that I developed a keen interest in doing my share after he started enforcing consequences for not doing so.

 

Incredible.

 

Incidentally my F had the day off yesterday and spent it cleaning pretty much the whole upstairs and even did laundry & dishes. Now, normally she doesn't lift a finger for any housework on her days off, instead she goes out and plays. Perhaps I got through... I have my reservations though as she indicated she felt guilty that I essentially told her she doesn't help and I would like help. We'll see.

[FitChick]

Suggestions from my own experience and friends:

 

1. Set aside a morning/afternoon/evening once a week for both of you to do the weekly chores. If you are both doing it together it will get done in no time.

 

2. As has been previously suggested, each do chores you prefer and the other can do the ones you don't like. If neither likes it, alternate weeks.

 

3. Her messiness in common rooms. Either pick everything up and throw it on the floor in her office and close the door or buy large decorative baskets or boxes from Ikea and put one in each room. Throw her stuff in there so it is out of sight. If she says she can't find something say, "Did you look in your baskets?"

 

4. Hire someone to do weekly cleaning. You'd still have to pick up stuff, though. Might be worth it.

 

5. Buy paper plates, cups and plastic flatware.

[Stellar Wench]

Incredible.

 

Incidentally my F had the day off yesterday and spent it cleaning pretty much the whole upstairs and even did laundry & dishes. Now, normally she doesn't lift a finger for any housework on her days off, instead she goes out and plays. Perhaps I got through... I have my reservations though as she indicated she felt guilty that I essentially told her she doesn't help and I would like help. We'll see.

This isn't going to change. School is not much different than full-time work. It was not sufficient excuse to not assist in housekeeping, yet she used that excuse to get by for 3 years. When she obtains employment, that will be the next excuse.

 

I wouldn't expect anything to change long-term. It sounds like your F has no interest in housekeeping unless she's forced into it. She may improve temporarily after an arguement, but will eventually fall back into the old habits. Can you accept that the housekeeping duties will be yours should you choose to marry? Doing that also means you're ok with it once you have children, and your home becomes a proverbial madhouse. You really need to think about how this affects your future together.

 

If this is a minor annoyance to you, consider a housekeeper. If this is something you can't accept over the long haul, then you must rethink marriage to her.

[Negative Nancy]

I was the sole bread winner in my marriage but my husband made it crystal clear that my working was not an allowance to get out of doing housework & sharing in the cooking, grocery shopping.

 

If he cooked & I left the dishes in the sink, in the morning I'd find those dirty dishes dumped on my desk. If I left my dirty clothing laying around, I could expect to retrieve it from the trash can. If I left cosmetics strewn about the bathroom vanity I could expect them to be dumped into the toilet. The most memorable occasion was when he called me to dinner & there in my chair was the cat box that I'd neglected to scoop out.

 

He made his position very clear "Look biatch, I don't care what you do for a living, I'm not your man servant & won't tolerate your messes in common areas. Clean it up because if I'm falling over it or offended by smelling it, into the trash it goes."

 

You need to man up & take ACTION to show her that this isn't acceptable to you. Trust me when I tell you that I developed a keen interest in doing my share after he started enforcing consequences for not doing so.

 

wow your ex was even more ****ed up than you let on here.... why didn't you divorce him earlier? it wouldn't have taken the porn and the cheating and the emotional abuse by letting you sleep on the couch for a year for me to divorce him...those abusive incidents up there would have been enough

[PinkInTheLimo]

You should think very hard about marrying this woman. It seems to me that she should live by herself for a while in order to understand that cooking, cleaning and laundry are not done by anyone when you live alone.

She is lazy and needs a reality check.

 

From now on you stop cooking, cleaning and doing laundry for her.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I was the sole bread winner in my marriage but my husband made it crystal clear that my working was not an allowance to get out of doing housework & sharing in the cooking, grocery shopping.

 

If he cooked & I left the dishes in the sink, in the morning I'd find those dirty dishes dumped on my desk. If I left my dirty clothing laying around, I could expect to retrieve it from the trash can. If I left cosmetics strewn about the bathroom vanity I could expect them to be dumped into the toilet. The most memorable occasion was when he called me to dinner & there in my chair was the cat box that I'd neglected to scoop out.

 

He made his position very clear "Look biatch, I don't care what you do for a living, I'm not your man servant & won't tolerate your messes in common areas. Clean it up because if I'm falling over it or offended by smelling it, into the trash it goes."

 

You need to man up & take ACTION to show her that this isn't acceptable to you. Trust me when I tell you that I developed a keen interest in doing my share after he started enforcing consequences for not doing so.

 

Djeezes, I feel for your story where you have to pay this man alimony but why the hell did you ever marry him or stay married to him if he treated you like that. You should have known for a long time that he was no good.

[soserious1]

Djeezes, I feel for your story where you have to pay this man alimony but why the hell did you ever marry him or stay married to him if he treated you like that. You should have known for a long time that he was no good.

 

Hold the phone here, my ex didn't start saying those things till I had basically ignored his requests to take more responsibility for picking up after myself. I had begun to take it for granted that he would do the housework & had become inconsiderate & sloppy.

 

I divorced him due to his infidelity & our sexual problems, but when it came to basic consideration around the house, I richly deserved the strong actions he took. He asked me nicely to help, to be more considerate probably hundreds of times. I couldn't " hear" him though till he finally said enough is enough & started inconviencing ME with my messes.

[zengirl]

While I'm happy to do laundry for my partner, complaining about how you do her laundry could be justification for his and hers hampers. You each can do (or not do) your own laundry.

 

Yes, I never let Hubby touch my laundry, though I don't give two figs about towels or if he messes them up. I do his sometimes, because he's not picky, but if he ever complained about HOW I did them, that'd be the last time I pitched in with that for the sake of pragmatism.

 

As to the general situation, OP, though it sounds like a poor setup for marriage as-is if she made you feel like an idiot for messing up one $30 towel. Assuming you accepted that you'd messed up a bit already and said so --- no need for a huge apology but a simple, "I messed up - sorry" is called for --- there was no need to make a fuss of this.

 

As to getting her to help more around the house and clean up more, it sounds like she's naturally kind of slobbish, so that may be an uphill battle. I'd talk to her about both of you chipping in for basic maid service, maybe, if that's within a potential budget?

 

Hold the phone here, my ex didn't start saying those things till I had basically ignored his requests to take more responsibility for picking up after myself. I had begun to take it for granted that he would do the housework & had become inconsiderate & sloppy.

 

I divorced him due to his infidelity & our sexual problems, but when it came to basic consideration around the house, I richly deserved the strong actions he took. He asked me nicely to help, to be more considerate probably hundreds of times. I couldn't " hear" him though till he finally said enough is enough & started inconviencing ME with my messes.

 

IMO nobody deserves to be approached in the ways you describe, but we do teach people how to treat us and if you were okay with that, then. . . that's how it goes.

[soserious1]

Yes, I never let Hubby touch my laundry, though I don't give two figs about towels or if he messes them up. I do his sometimes, because he's not picky, but if he ever complained about HOW I did them, that'd be the last time I pitched in with that for the sake of pragmatism.

 

As to the general situation, OP, though it sounds like a poor setup for marriage as-is if she made you feel like an idiot for messing up one $30 towel. Assuming you accepted that you'd messed up a bit already and said so --- no need for a huge apology but a simple, "I messed up - sorry" is called for --- there was no need to make a fuss of this.

 

As to getting her to help more around the house and clean up more, it sounds like she's naturally kind of slobbish, so that may be an uphill battle. I'd talk to her about both of you chipping in for basic maid service, maybe, if that's within a potential budget?

 

 

 

IMO nobody deserves to be approached in the ways you describe, but we do teach people how to treat us and if you were okay with that, then. . . that's how it goes.

 

Yes & my husband taught me that ignoring his polite requests to pick up after myself would not be tolerated. Putting my messes where they would inconvenience me instead of inconveniencing him was absolutely the right thing for him to do. He asked me NICELY hundreds of times after all.

[2sunny]

It always boils down to intent - you didn't intentionally make the towel blue. But she over reacted.

 

She expects you to take care of most things- you will live a long hard life with a selfish woman like this.

 

Her EXPECTATIONS are out of line and out of balance.

 

In order for her to learn - she would learn best if you had her live by HERSELF for a year before you two talk ANY further about marriage!

 

You spoil her and yet she expects MORE!

 

YOU did this! You have trained her that you handle everything and she does very little! Stop that!

 

If you don't - you will be very disappointed as the years roll along.