d'Arthez Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 Meeting the right person is hard, and getting to the stage of an actual (exclusive) relationship is even harder. Since I was sixteen, I have had 6 serious crushes / infatuations. Most of those, for various reasons (one through my own stupidity, some beyond my control), did not get to the relationship stage. And I am sure most of them would not have worked out long-term (i.e. up to this point in time; I am 32 now), though at the time I was seriously attracted to these girls / women. I changed and the girls / women in question changed. The last 4 of those were all foreign-born women. I know I am quite picky. Not that my ideal woman has to fulfill a lot of criteria, but the kind of life I live and aspire to means that a lot of women are simply not what I am interested in. My ideal in a woman is quite fluid; I have fallen for the more homely (when I was 16-17) as well as ambitious types. These women ranged from "less than average" to "very beautiful" women. For me, attraction is based on character. Even now, I have only a limited idea of what the future Mrs. d'Arthez will be like. I am not set in my ways, not particularly bound to any geographical location on this planet. I could end up in New York, Sydney, or a rural backwater that no one cares to know about. Okay I admit, that sounds boastful, but I do back my talent and skills to get where I want; I know that for most guys that simply is not true. Just as I back myself to find myself a Mrs. d'Arthez. The perfect wife / husband does not exist, in isolation from what one brings to the relationship oneself. Why do I mention this? Because a lot of people seem to be way too set in their ways. Looking for someone to "complete them" often ignores the dynamic a relationship brings to the equation. A good relationship is much more than the sum of its parts.
daphne Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 You can say that again sister. It ain't easy. I find myself catching up for lost time at work trying to figure out dating in a different world and I totally get that movie Waiting to Exhale now. lol. As for the negative people that resort to stereotypes to an unhealthy degree. I think that it's a bit of a defense mechanism that is a self fulfilling prophecy. You believe what you tell yourself about yourself, and about others. If you think all men or women are cheaters/crazy, you won't do the work to try to figure out out who isn't a cheater/crazy and what you need to do to attract non cheater/crazy. Laws of attraction. Sometimes I get really disappointed when I run into someone that turned out to be not at all what I had thought. I kick myself for being naive and optimistic and expecting the best out of people. I'll probably kick myself again a few times before all is said and done. But I'd rather be optimistic than the alternative. I will say, I can do without the naivete.
Sanman Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 I don't think the fact that finding the right person is hard is what frustrates most people. From the time we are born, our parents, schools, and even society give us a set of rules that guide out lives. We, as human beings, become most frustrated when those rules are taken away from us and our conception of order does not fit with reality. This is why there is so much civil unrest in so many places currently. Modern dating, likewise, has no rules and imposing order on it gets frustrating. Mult-date or single date? Split the bill or pick up the tab? Be nice or be a dick? There are a million possible questions and the answer may be different every time. Feminism and the push for equal rights have made things more confusing as not even the traditionally appealing things such a good job (for a man) are enough to allow one to appeal to someone they want. I have friends who are attractive successful physicians that are engaged and married to their only real relationship. I have thoroughly average friends with women fighting over them. There are no consequences for the cheaters and they may end up happily with their affair partner while the loyal SO continues to be hurt and miserable. Doing the same thing twice will result in two completely different reactions by two different people. IMO, the keys to getting into a relationship and even having a successful marriage are not as difficult as people often make it out to be. Honesty, communication, common goals, and the right attitude in both partners is needed. Finding those qualities in others and cultivating them in yourself is the hard part. 1
threebyfate Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) We, as human beings, become most frustrated when those rules are taken away from us and our conception of order does not fit with reality.Since when do emotions fit into guidelines? When people approach dating like a physics problem, they should remember that if you change variables, the results will also change. Modern dating, likewise, has no rules and imposing order on it gets frustrating.In discussions with my parents, there was dating during their time which is how they found each other, as well as dating during my grandparent's time. It's that in today's age of instant gratification, people want "it" NOW, where the definition of "it" sources from the acquisition mentality of an object. Edited May 21, 2012 by threebyfate
chimneychamp Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Since when do emotions fit into guidelines? When people approach dating like a physics problem, they should remember that if you change variables, the results will also change. In discussions with my parents, there was dating during their time which is how they found each other, as well as dating during my grandparent's time. It's that in today's age of instant gratification, people want "it" NOW, where the definition of "it" sources from the acquisition mentality of an object. Or maybe there is just a PERCEPTION now that people want instant gratification. Maybe people are just trying to follow the norms of the day, which are confusing as f***. I think the further back you go in time, the more there was etiquette and structure to dating (or courting, as they called it).
truth_seeker Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Now there are many reason why a guy's pool shrinks, whether it be physical attractiveness, lack of confidence, lack or career, lack of appropriate social skills, lack of understanding what women want etc... I've never had a problem with women liking me, finding me attractive, but you brought up something that is making me understand why I've failed with some: lack of understanding what women want. Can you explain this more?
carhill Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Lack of understanding of what women want are attracted to
threebyfate Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Or maybe there is just a PERCEPTION now that people want instant gratification. Maybe people are just trying to follow the norms of the day, which are confusing as f***.Who cares about norms? People and emotions aren't the same and can't be shoved into compartments. Dating isn't complex. Date people that you're attracted to and are compatible with. Relax and have fun. It will either work or won't. I think the further back you go in time, the more there was etiquette and structure to dating (or courting, as they called it).Regardless of the etiquette and structure, outcomes were never guaranteed.
zengirl Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 I don't think the fact that finding the right person is hard is what frustrates most people. From the time we are born, our parents, schools, and even society give us a set of rules that guide out lives. We, as human beings, become most frustrated when those rules are taken away from us and our conception of order does not fit with reality. This is why there is so much civil unrest in so many places currently. Modern dating, likewise, has no rules and imposing order on it gets frustrating. An interesting thought, really. When we are children, adults give us rules and boundaries. As adults, we still have them in some ways -- laws, workplace rules, etc -- but we have a lot more freedom in how we live our lives. Even workplace rules we get to choose to a degree, IF we had the foresight and luck to make ourselves strong competitors in the market; some people have more choice and freedom than others. The reason we give children rules and boundaries is to make them more comfortable and hopefully to help them learn that such boundaries are GOOD so they can someday make their own and live productive lives. Some cultures and communities give you a set of rules to live by all life long (conservative ones generally) but most nowadays allow you to build your own as you live. I think you can easily have rules and boundaries in modern dating. I did. You simply have to pick them yourself and realize that not everyone will live by your rules (that will help you eliminate potential non-partners if they can't abide your boundaries or you can't abide theirs). Children may not realize it, but adults should: Rules and boundaries are not the same everywhere. Laws are not the same everywhere. Even individual classrooms, when we are children, may have different rules. Most children experience this growing up -- the rules changing on them at one point, something that used to be totally fine becoming outlawed in a new setting, etc. That is a part of life that most people learn to deal with and it's a sign of immaturity to pretend there are universal rules or rely on external boundaries when you could be crafting your own, I think.
EasyHeart Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 1. I don't think it's fair to judge men as a whole by the men who post on this site. 2. You answered your own question: There's a whole industry out there telling women how hard finding the right man can be. I've been reading about it in magazines and chick lit since I was 11. If anything, the one recurrent issue I see women make on here is that they tackle dating with anxiety. I have ranted about that in the past. Women are trained from birth to think about relationships and marriage. Women's magazines have endless articles on "how to get a guy"; there's absolutely nothing comparable for men. Even the relationship books that many LSers have read are overwhelmingly geared towards women. Men are left to fend for themselves, which usually means talking to other men who are equally clueless. 3. Western society had undergone vast changes with respect to gender issues in the past 50 years. All of us think history began on the day we were born, so I don't think most people have an appreciation how quickly and radically things have changed. There is a significant part of the feminist movement that perceives men as the enemy, so while there was a substantial support structure to guide women through these social changes, there was virtually none for men. It should not be a surprise that men as a whole are lagging behind. 4. Plus, we can't ignore the simple fact that wimmins are crazy!!!!
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