Surprise! Finding the right person isn't easy.

May 20, 2012

There's something I don't understand about the adorable losers on LS. What, exactly, did they learn about how to meet a partner? Why, on the one hand, are they so prone to use stereotypes to imagine what the other thinks and acts like all while acting surprised finding a partner is not as easy as a walk in the park.

I grew up with everyone telling me finding the right man is a mix of luck and hard work. First, you have to be nice, attractive, whatever else. Second, you have to make sure you pick the right guy. Third, you need to make sure he respects you. Fourth, you have to make sure he's capable of commitment.

I often get the impression, from reading some of these threads, that some of the posters feel disillusioned when they realize meeting the right person takes work. Like they're shocked to discover that "females" (their lingo) are not automatically distributed once they reach the age of consent.

I also often get the impression they get frustrated when they realize that every single women is different, and therefore, that means you can't get along with a women by sheer virtue of thinking she's attractive. (Nope, even if she's cute, you're going to have to get to know her for who she is).

Comments?

May 20, 2012

Why do you make it out that only members of one sex makes this mistake?

May 20, 2012

Like they're shocked to discover that "females" (their lingo) are not automatically distributed once they reach the age of consent.

I also often get the impression they get frustrated when they realize that every single women is different

This is the part I'll have to disagree with. Most refuse to believe that every single 'female' is different, so they ascribe conspiracy theory negative spin to force 'female' action into their fantasy boxes.

May 20, 2012

Men and women are different. For some reason, some people just can't seem to understand this or just refuse to believe it. Most men never try and put themselves in womens shoes and see things from their perspective and most women never try to put themselves in mens.

It's necessary to do this if you ever want a good relationship.

May 20, 2012

I could have discovered the cure for prostate cancer with the devotion, time and work I put into relationships over the decades. What an abject waste of time. That's my comment.

May 20, 2012

D'Arthez - yes I did kind of end up gendering it up. My take? There's a whole industry out there telling women how hard finding the right man can be. I've been reading about it in magazines and chick lit since I was 11. If anything, the one recurrent issue I see women make on here is that they tackle dating with anxiety. I have ranted about that in the past.

Apart from a few posters, it seems that the majority of posters who are surprised to find out meeting the right person is hard on here are men. More women seem to expect it.

This is the part I'll have to disagree with. Most refuse to believe that every single 'female' is different, so they ascribe conspiracy theory negative spin to force 'female' action into their fantasy boxes.

You're right. This vocal minority of posters actually try to force women into the fantasy boxes rather than see them as different. Doing otherwise would mean a women isn't a match by virtue of being hot.

May 20, 2012

I could have discovered the cure for prostate cancer with the devotion, time and work I put into relationships over the decades. What an abject waste of time. That's my comment.

Carhill, I always respect your advice and perspective. However, I'm single too. Do you recommend I revise all my past relationships, include all the inappropriate times married men approached me and consider love an abject waste of time?

May 20, 2012

I grew up without any advice from anyone or anything. Except my mother who used to joke about my 'future wife'. Mind you, I do not have any sisters, so I did not really get much of an education as to what girls are subjected to.

Men's stereotypical roles are far more one-dimensional (bring in money, screw wife and she will pop out the kids; his will was law), than women's roles, who stereotypically are portrayed as the passive participants, and only have their looks to win a man over, and a whole series of social mores, which were never as strictly applied to young men (the whole virginity / chastity issue).

At least the second wave feminism gave women more of a choice - they could actually use their brains to compete as well. However, because real wages have declined massively over the past 40 years, this simply means that women now have to be both beautiful and smart to attract the best mates. Great! Talk about increasing pressure on women.

For men, the effect has been slightly different.

It is not a complete coincidence that a lot of men feel threatened by feminism - it has given women a choice in whom to pursue a life with, and if the women wants she is not forced to stay in an abusive marriage or relationship (one of the reasons divorce rates were lower 50 years ago is exactly that: women staying in abusive marriages, because they had no financially viable alternative). However blaming feminism is buying into ideological deflection. It is not women's fault that capitalism has some serious defects.

Smart men are feminists.

May 20, 2012

Carhill, I always respect your advice and perspective. However, I'm single too. Do you recommend I revise all my past relationships, include all the inappropriate times married men approached me and consider love an abject waste of time?

I'm only telling you how I feel, right now, today. That's it. That's my comment, reflective, in solitude, on the past romantic/love relationships in my life. I don't know the future. No one does. I live in the now.

Edited to add that there was no surprise at 21. There was no surprise at 30. There was no surprise at nearly 40. There was no surprise at 50, after a failed marriage. I've known since forever that finding the 'right person' isn't easy; it's damn near impossible. Being myself wasn't the right person so now I'm content being myself. That's it.

Edited May 20, 2012 by carhill

May 20, 2012

I don't have a problem with hard work. With everything else I work at, there is some result or reward--either money, a sense of pride or accomplishment for problems solved, or at least a nice feeling in the muscles at the end of a day.

I may not be the right person for someone, but the process of her making that decision always seems to involve making me feel like pond scum. Until you know what it's like to be "filtered out" many times in a row, I don't think you can really get what it's like to be an adorable loser.

You really think it's just not trying enough?

May 20, 2012

I don't have a problem with hard work. With everything else I work at, there is some result or reward--either money, a sense of pride or accomplishment for problems solved, or at least a nice feeling in the muscles at the end of a day.

I may not be the right person for someone, but the process of her making that decision always seems to involve making me feel like pond scum. Until you know what it's like to be "filtered out" many times in a row, I don't think you can really get what it's like to be an adorable loser.

You really think it's just not trying enough?

No, I think it's all about having unrealistic expectations. It's not about "trying hard enough" as much as accepting the trials and tribulation with grace - and as part of the process.

And who says I don't know what it feels like to be filtered out? I, however, refuse to let my sense of self be determined by what a near stanger (the case with most dates/early relationship) thinks of me.

May 20, 2012

This is the acquisition mentality that I've mentioned in the past. Instead of working hard to acquire something, look to prospectives as compatible partners.

May 20, 2012

FTR, being 'filtered', relative to the reflection process, along with being rejected dozens to hundreds of times, is relatively meaningless to me. That stuff doesn't even matter. I'm talking about those people who proactively told me they loved me and fostered and facilitated my investment in them as human beings. That's what I'm talking about, specifically. I don't wish to be ambiguous here. This is important stuff.

May 20, 2012

You're thinking is part of the problem. I've approached 2,000+ women with 99.3% rejection rate (yes, i keep track). Some women are great, politely decline your advances and yet still have a great conversation with you. Many of my best friends were originally random girls I hit on that didn't find me attractive but our interestes and personalities meshed.

BUT most women will rip you a new hole without even letting you get a word out simply based on how you look. I've gotten plenty of explitives, threats, and plenty sic their male friends on me for so much as a "Hi there". Girls expect guys to make the first move, treat them like crap and tear them apart, then complain that they don't get hit on by enough quality guys. Men aren't robots they have feelings too. You need to think from a male perspective for a minute.

And I know women don't have it easy either, since many are too shy to go after the guys they like and plenty of guys lie about anything for sex.

May 20, 2012

I'm only telling you how I feel, right now, today. That's it. That's my comment, reflective, in solitude, on the past romantic/love relationships in my life. I don't know the future. No one does. I live in the now.

Edited to add that there was no surprise at 21. There was no surprise at 30. There was no surprise at nearly 40. There was no surprise at 50, after a failed marriage. I've known since forever that finding the 'right person' isn't easy; it's damn near impossible. Being myself wasn't the right person so now I'm content being myself. That's it.

I'm talking about those people who proactively told me they loved me and fostered and facilitated my investment in them as human beings.

I take it you feel they lied?

I know I likely provoked you earlier. I get the impression you're like my sister. She's an interesting mix of determination and vulnerability. She excels at almost anything because she is a hard worker and a brilliant person. But love? That scares her. Like you, she had guy friends who led her on, for years, always to end up marrying or dating one of her friends. Her first relationship started when she was in her early 30s. She jumped in, ready to experience what a relationship could be. Her relationship recently ended and now she's decided she doesn't want to bother with love anymore, mostly because it's too much trouble.

That's fine. I respect her decision. But I also feel that she's choosing that path our of fear and not contentment. But who knows, I hope that by not thinking about love, she will find contentment and then perhaps her fear will fade. I also can't help but think that it's a waste that such a beautiful person as my sister is not out there loving a man and raising a family.

I only hope that isn't the case for you.

May 20, 2012

You're thinking is part of the problem.

Nothing you posted supports the statement that my thinking is part of the problem.

Please explain how what I said in this thread is part of the problem.

May 20, 2012

Nothing you posted supports the statement that my thinking is part of the problem.

Please explain how what I said in this thread is part of the problem.

Well I take it back since I don't know you, my apologies...I meant the thinking you express in your thread, not you personally

"adorable losers on LS...so prone to use stereotypes "

In the thread, you're generalizing the posters on here as using stereotypes to judge women and expect everything to be handed to them....by stereotyping them yourselves. That's called a double standard. That's the problem. Narcisim, elitism, and the double standars that come with it. Examples: when girls who want a nice partner are really nasty to guys they don't find attractive; guys who cheat and get angry at girls when they so much as dance with a stranger at a club; girls who want a top 5% guy when they are below average in what they offer; etc.

Edited May 20, 2012 by metalambience

May 20, 2012

"adorable losers on LS...so prone to use stereotypes "

You're generalizing the posters on here as using stereotypes to judge women and expect everything to be handed to them....by stereotyping them yourselves. That's called a double standard. That's the problem.

Fair enough. I plead guilty.

Examples: when girls who want a nice partner are really nasty to guys they don't find attractive; guys who cheat and get angry at girls when they so much as dance with a stranger at a club; girls who want a top 5% guy when they are below average in what they offer; etc.

Again, I don't see the link between the double-standards you list and the question raised in this thread: Why do a few posters seem to expect that finding love should be easy?

ETA: please point out how the argument itself is narcissistic and elitist? Again, refrain from assuming I have it easier than others.

May 20, 2012

Fair enough. I plead guilty.

Again, I don't see the link between the double-standards you list and the question raised in this thread: Why do a few posters seem to expect that finding love should be easy?

ETA: please point out how the argument itself is narcissistic and elitist? Again, refrain from assuming I have it easier than others.

In every person exists a continuum of empathy/ understanding/ open mindedness on one side and self centeredness/ grandure/ closed mindedness on the other side. Our self centered western culture is pushing us to the other side (ads tell us we're awesome so we deserve the newest and best to sell more junk to us). Ego makes people think they know everything and boldens them to use stereotypes and preconcieved notions of idealism that they are convinced they deserve. Ego is what enables you to stereotype guys on here, presenting you opinions as if they were true facts. Empathy would make you realize that when women stereotype and put guys down like you just did, men find it hurtful. Insensitivity to hurtfullness is what is turning both guys and girls bitter.

May 20, 2012

In every person exists a continuum of empathy/ understanding/ open mindedness on one side and self centeredness/ grandure/ closed mindedness on the other side. Our self centered western culture is pushing us to the other side (ads tell us we're awesome so we deserve the newest and best to sell more junk to us). Ego makes people think they know everything and boldens them to use stereotypes and preconcieved notions of idealism that they are convinced they deserve. Ego is what enables you to stereotype guys on here, presenting you opinions as if they were true facts. Empathy would make you realize that when women stereotype and put guys down like you just did, men find it hurtful. Insensitivity to hurtfullness is what is turning both guys and girls bitter.

Great. Mind if I switch genders and use this in the next thread that's about "the problem with women"?

May 20, 2012

Heh. Pretty hard to discuss a topic involving generalities without using some form of stereotype.

May 20, 2012

There's something I don't understand about the adorable losers on LS. What, exactly, did they learn about how to meet a partner? Why, on the one hand, are they so prone to use stereotypes to imagine what the other thinks and acts like all while acting surprised finding a partner is not as easy as a walk in the park.

I grew up with everyone telling me finding the right man is a mix of luck and hard work. First, you have to be nice, attractive, whatever else. Second, you have to make sure you pick the right guy. Third, you need to make sure he respects you. Fourth, you have to make sure he's capable of commitment.

I often get the impression, from reading some of these threads, that some of the posters feel disillusioned when they realize meeting the right person takes work. Like they're shocked to discover that "females" (their lingo) are not automatically distributed once they reach the age of consent.

I also often get the impression they get frustrated when they realize that every single women is different, and therefore, that means you can't get along with a women by sheer virtue of thinking she's attractive. (Nope, even if she's cute, you're going to have to get to know her for who she is).

Comments?

Everyone has biases and standards. We're human. Let's not pretend we're somehow ascended

When it comes to learning, most learn via experience. Very few actually look at their experiences and try to figure out "what did I do wrong?" The main reason is that requires a trait called empathy; stepping outside of oneself and trying to imagine the scenario from the other person's point of perspective. It's a lost art, but one that I have found essential to the longevity of my parents' 35 year marriage.

I sure hope every woman is different! I certainly don't want to date women that are similar to my exes. haha

I don't think people get frustrated so much with putting in the effort, though I do agree that relationships take 50/50 effort to make it meaningful, it's more that they don't know how to get a woman's respect...

"If I act too interested, I look needy"

"If I don't act interested, I seem mean which is against my nature"

Etc.

(If you notice there is a direct relationship with men's thinking. If I do A I get B...)

To me, it's that initial period where you have to capture a woman's attention. That's the tough part for most men (me too!). Getting that emotional attachment. And the emotional element is indeed where a lot of women are similar and why men get frustrated.

By and large (I know it's not 100%!), men think very logically; linear if you will...A leads to B. Women think logically too, but there is a much heavier mix of emotions.

This is the disconnect for a lot of men. We don't know how to analyze that and it leads us saying "I asked her out, was nice, she flirted, and then disappears". It doesn't compute in our brains. We have to as you say, "learn" by getting burned a few times. Basically that our way or processing the mating ritual isn't the same as a woman's. It takes some experience for us to be able to empathize with a woman's thinking

May 20, 2012

Great. Mind if I switch genders and use this in the next thread that's about "the problem with women"?

Not at all. My 3 best friends are girls- two were abused by their drug dealer boyfriends. Two more distant friends of mine were raped. I know how tough you have it too, and I know it's a whole different set of challenges I couldn't begin to talk about. I admit I have no clue and that's why I don't. Which is exacty what I criticize about you pretending to know what it's like to be a man.

May 20, 2012

Years ago I worked with a gorgeous woman who had men throwing themselves at her feet yet she dated very few. I expressed envy because I hadn't even had a boyfriend yet. She said, "It doesn't matter how many men want me if I don't want them." I couldn't understand her.

Fast forward to me dating lots of men and seldom finding anyone I wanted to see again. I finally realized what she meant. In a way, I was no better off than before. My ego doesn't need inflating, I just want one man, the right man -- for ME. If I give up, I am guaranteed to never meet him. After each failure, I tell myself I am one man closer to Mr. Right if he's out there. If I never meet him at least I won't kick myself for not trying.

May 20, 2012

There's something I don't understand about the adorable losers on LS. What, exactly, did they learn about how to meet a partner? Why, on the one hand, are they so prone to use stereotypes to imagine what the other thinks and acts like all while acting surprised finding a partner is not as easy as a walk in the park.

I grew up with everyone telling me finding the right man is a mix of luck and hard work. First, you have to be nice, attractive, whatever else. Second, you have to make sure you pick the right guy. Third, you need to make sure he respects you. Fourth, you have to make sure he's capable of commitment.

I often get the impression, from reading some of these threads, that some of the posters feel disillusioned when they realize meeting the right person takes work. Like they're shocked to discover that "females" (their lingo) are not automatically distributed once they reach the age of consent.

I also often get the impression they get frustrated when they realize that every single women is different, and therefore, that means you can't get along with a women by sheer virtue of thinking she's attractive. (Nope, even if she's cute, you're going to have to get to know her for who she is).

Comments?

Find the right person does take work, however one needs to consider that many factors go into determining the pool of potential mates.

Maybe I am off on this, but most of the frustration I see here from guys and myself included is that the pool is often not big enough. If you are a 6' blonde hair blue eyed dude that looks like he should be an underwear model, your pool is much bigger. Thus, while you still have to put in work, chances are you can find an appropriate mate much more easily.

Now there are many reason why a guy's pool shrinks, whether it be physical attractiveness, lack of confidence, lack or career, lack of appropriate social skills, lack of understanding what women want etc...

If you notice most of complaining comes from guys who have trouble getting dates or going from dating to a relationship. Not too many guys complaining about having multiple failed relationships.

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