Is dating for women 100% easier? Are men expendable to women?

[Alma Mobley]

Maybe but it sure seems like it on this board. I think that is what pisses me off so much.

Woggle, you posted this about superficiality. Do you really think the majority of regular women posters on LS are like this?

 

Ruby Slippers? Madame Chaucer? Tara Maiden? Star Gazer, TBF? Etc, etc? You really believe that? Or do you think they are the exceptions? Is your own wife "just an exception" or does she also represent women, as a woman?

 

I don't post much on here, and I can be silly, but I do try to give advice. Am I an exception as well, because I am happily married?

 

I have noticed that you have backed down on some of your more rigid ideas, and the next step is seeing us women as individuals (which I have seen you do!), and not lump us into some weird type of obsidian hatred who are shaking our butts and spreading socialism and thwarting men everywhere.. you know, like Dasein (hi!) and others.... Don't go the hatred route, 'kay?

 

 

'

[HallowedBeThyName]

How do you know these women aren't settling? Or aren't after his wallet or something else?

 

 

 

I don't know that, all I can tell you is that I've seen plenty of avg guys pull women way out of their league and I know plenty of good looking guys that are awful with women

 

 

It's massively overrated. Just an excuse for guys who don't have enough personality or work ethic to get girls

[Kamille]

How exactly would they benefit? I am curious about that.

 

I am not against true feminism but I am damn sure against misandrist feminism.

 

IMO, they're the ones who would benefit the most from the pressure they feel to be "real men". Notice the men here who suffer the most tend to adopt the leading definitions of masculinity to define (and denigrate) themselves. The correlate is that they also feel they then need to denigrate women and threatened by women.

 

Gender studies (true feminism) raises questions about the ways in which our current conception of gender creates suffering for all.

 

The theory also goes that the people who hold dominant positions suffer as much as the dominated, but are more reticent to change. In this case, these men fear questioning masculinity at all, because then they believe they would lose what little power they have. So it's a vicious ideological cycle, whereby the belief that is causing the most suffering is also the one in which one is the most invested.

[d'Arthez]

How exactly would they benefit? I am curious about that.

Because the women would not have to put up with the crap they are now forced to put up with, such as lesser pay for equal work. If men and women would get equal pay for equal work, men would have more of a choice if they want to be stay-at-home fathers. The reason that stay-at-home fathers are so rare is purely economical.

 

As long as the legal system maintains that women are better carers than men, by virtue of their reproductive organs, there is no equality to speak of (this ties in with the above as well). Case in point: women used to get the children almost by default in divorce cases, shutting the fathers out. No true feminist would argue that women are by default better carers.

 

It would also mean, that women would be allowed to develop their own sense of beauty, independent of popular culture. The same would naturally develop for men as well. Men would be less compelled to join in the meaningless, harmful and counterproductive rat race.

 

And because both men and women are not flooded with these idiotic gender-based culturally approved games, they can actually spend time getting to know each other, grow to love each other, rather than assume:

he Tarzan = he go kill for money

she Jane = be pretty and clean the fortress

 

Sound pretty win-win to me.

[ThaWholigan]

why is there so much obsession about looks from the guys here?

 

 

I'm a pretty decent looking guy and I have what the media would tell you is the perfect male body. I don't get some super preferential treatment from women and I have never been approached either outside of a few very drunk girls at parties. Hell I've never even had a girlfriend at the age of 23

 

 

Women still mainly judge guys on their personality, status, money etc... Looks are a very small part of it. Stop thinking that your dating issues would be solved if you were to be magically transformed into a good looking guy because they wouldn't be

 

 

Here's a picture of my face and body so you know I'm not trolling

 

 

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2n86hjs.jpg

 

^^^This dude just put himself forward as an example. He's not an ugly dude and he is in very good shape. Now I have a question to you: was it incredibly hard for you to look like that? Do you consider it to be hard?

 

IMO, men that have incredible bodies, put in a hell of a lot more effort into their appearance then the average woman.

 

 

All I said is that if a man wants to get a woman, he has to look good. It's a pressure men have to deal with all the time. If he doesn't want to to put in the effort to look decent, then he can enjoy being single.

 

What is this about effort? Is it really too much to ask to be fit? Not even from a dating/sex perspective, but simply from a "I would like to be fit and look like this for me" perspective. It doesn't take that much effort to look good, anymore than it does a woman IMO.

[Woggle]

Woggle, you posted this about superficiality. Do you really think the majority of regular women posters on LS are like this?

 

Ruby Slippers? Madame Chaucer? Tara Maiden? Star Gazer, TBF? Etc, etc? You really believe that? Or do you think they are the exceptions? Is your own wife "just an exception" or does she also represent women, as a woman?

 

I don't post much on here, and I can be silly, but I do try to give advice. Am I an exception as well, because I am happily married?

 

I have noticed that you have backed down on some of your more rigid ideas, and the next step is seeing us women as individuals (which I have seen you do!), and not lump us into some weird type of obsidian hatred who are shaking our butts and spreading socialism and thwarting men everywhere.. you know, like Dasein (hi!) and others.... Don't go the hatred route, 'kay?

 

 

'

 

It's not that. I don't agree with everything some of the more bitter men on here say but I can obviously feel their pain across the screen. I can see many of them are really hurting instead of just being one dimensional misogynists and instead of showing some compassion on a board dedicated to people with dating issues the women here just pile on and tear them apart.

 

This lack of empathy just really gets to me. If we want to really heal gender relations it will take mutual respect on both sides and I am 100% for that but if the modern feminist version of it is just that men now get to be oppressed I will never buy that in a million years because I have never done anything personally to a woman to warrant that.

[Alma Mobley]

How does my requirements for a GF have anything to do with the post you quoted? BTW, I do have more requirements then just physical, but at this point, I figure it's better to loose some of them so I don't exclude some women who may like me.

 

How does me not caring about something have any relevance to people having social lives and relationships?

 

Frankly, women feeling pressured by other women to look good, has no relevance to my life at all. I've also never had a girl tell me that she felt pressured to look good or that she was bullied, or heard that from any one I know.

 

I think people around here (LS) have a problem with you because you state you are average in looks/personality but require a woman who is below average weight (US) with large breasts (C to D, correct me if wrong), who is also younger than you (at 30) and compatible with your interests in addition to all your physical requirements. If that is wrong, correct me so I am not spreading misinformation about you!

[Anela]

You're totally wrong about the standards that women have in terms of appearance

 

 

I know guys who are 40 years old, slightly chubby and balding with beautiful girlfriends. You're not getting girls because of your lack of personality, status, etc... All the other things that women look for

 

 

 

Like I said, I have what the media would consider the perfect male body and I don't particularly receive much female attention. Stop thinking the grass is greener on the other side because it's not

 

Looking at your pictures, I would have assumed that you had a girlfriend, if I saw you out-and-about.

 

But the last man I was seriously interested in getting to know, was short and bald. Not overweight, but not looking anywhere near as in shape as you are. He's the same age as I am, and in the same "league" if anyone wants to go there.

[FrustratedStandards]

Women still mainly judge guys on their personality, status, money etc... Looks are a very small part of it. Stop thinking that your dating issues would be solved if you were to be magically transformed into a good looking guy because they wouldn't be...

 

I find it funny that you say looks are a small part of it, when you go out of your way to post pictures of your incredible body.

 

Obviously you understand that looks are a big part of it (even though it's not the biggest), but you don't have to worry about that, so to you personality is the more important.

 

If you ask a not so good looking guy what the bigger part of it is, he will say looks and personality equally, because he won't have the physique or shape that most women want.

 

It's like me saying "I think personality is more important" but that's because I don't have any physical hiccups that i'm worried about. If I was considered one of the very less attractive women, I would put more stress on physicalities because that's what I would assume rendered me single.

[somedude81]

Then what makes someone good enough for anyone else? If it's not physical attraction, so then is it?

Physical attraction is part of it, but as I said before, a man shouldn't have to look like a model for a woman to be physically attracted to him.

 

IMO, if somebody is roughly equivalent to another person in several key areas, then they are good enough for each other.

 

Why do so many men complain about women being "out of their league" if being good enough has nothing to do with the physical?

Complain about women being out of their league? I don't fallow, what is there to complain about?

 

Yes there are many women that are out of my league, I'm not going to bitch that they won't date me. I don't even bother trying to pursue them.

 

Maybe that's the unfairness of the sexes. Men need to work extra hard to look half as good. That's probably why the men with great bodies get an abundance of girls, because he works extra extra hard to look that good and so he stands out from the other guys.

And that's fine. He deserves it.

 

But the average woman who doesn't but in a forth of effort, shouldn't believe that he deserves him, he's too good for her and she should lower her standards back to reality.

[Woggle]

Because the women would not have to put up with the crap they are now forced to put up with' date=' such as lesser pay for equal work. If men and women would get equal pay for equal work, men would have more of a [b']choice[/b] if they want to be stay-at-home fathers. The reason that stay-at-home fathers are so rare is purely economical.

 

As long as the legal system maintains that women are better carers than men, by virtue of their reproductive organs, there is no equality to speak of (this ties in with the above as well). Case in point: women used to get the children almost by default in divorce cases, shutting the fathers out. No true feminist would argue that women are by default better carers.

 

It would also mean, that women would be allowed to develop their own sense of beauty, independent of popular culture. The same would naturally develop for men as well. Men would be less compelled to join in the meaningless, harmful and counterproductive rat race.

 

And because both men and women are not flooded with these idiotic gender-based culturally approved games, they can actually spend time getting to know each other, grow to love each other, rather than assume:

he Tarzan = he go kill for money

she Jane = be pretty and clean the fortress

 

Sound pretty win-win to me.

 

Yes that would be nice but what would most likely happen which is what is happening today is that women get to shift outside of their gender roles but men have to stay confined in ours when it benefits them. All of a sudden many independent women get traditional when they benefit from it.

 

That is why I say I support true feminism while being against misandrist feminism. Sadly the latter seems to be the more dominant voice these days.

[Anela]

I find it funny that you say looks are a small part of it, when you go out of your way to post pictures of your incredible body.

 

Obviously you understand that looks are a big part of it (even though it's not the biggest), but you don't have to worry about that, so to you personality is the more important.

 

If you ask a not so good looking guy what the bigger part of it is, he will say looks and personality equally, because he won't have the physique or shape that most women want.

 

It's like me saying "I think personality is more important" but that's because I don't have any physical hiccups that i'm worried about. If I was considered one of the very less attractive women, I would put more stress on physicalities because that's what I would assume rendered me single.

 

He posted those images, because he's in incredible shape, and cute, and yet he's never had a girlfriend. I think I saw a thread from his yesterday, that was all about that.

[FrustratedStandards]

Physical attraction is part of it, but as I said before, a man shouldn't have to look like a model for a woman to be physically attracted to him.

 

No, but the farther a man is from her ideal physique, the harder it will be for her to be attracted to him.

 

If a man wants big boobs, then he will have trouble finding a woman with small breasts attractive, regardless how hot she is otherwise.

 

For some women, this equates to abs.

[somedude81]

I think people around here (LS) have a problem with you because you state you are average in looks/personality but require a woman who is below average weight (US) with large breasts (C to D, correct me if wrong), who is also younger than you (at 30) and compatible with your interests in addition to all your physical requirements. If that is wrong, correct me so I am not spreading misinformation about you!

IMO, if wanting a girl who is a weight proportionate as I am, makes her above average, then so am I.

 

So yes, I'm an above average:laugh: guy who wants an above average girl. As for boobs, B, which is average is fine, but bigger is better.

[Alma Mobley]

Right. It's only the bitter men on here... or the unlucky ones, or....

 

And women? They TOTALLTY lack empathy, they have none, not for themselves or their children...

 

Come on, Woggle... of course the men posting here are hurting inside, as are most of the women who post here. It's a relationship-advice site. We all hurt. I have had my heart broken in the worst effing way, but I am still here, living my life and in a new relationship.

 

So, why don't you educate me on what "modern feminism" is? I mean, I consider myself a feminist, but maybe I don't know what I am getting into. As usual.

 

 

It's not that. I don't agree with everything some of the more bitter men on here say but I can obviously feel their pain across the screen. I can see many of them are really hurting instead of just being one dimensional misogynists and instead of showing some compassion on a board dedicated to people with dating issues the women here just pile on and tear them apart.

 

This lack of empathy just really gets to me. If we want to really heal gender relations it will take mutual respect on both sides and I am 100% for that but if the modern feminist version of it is just that men now get to be oppressed I will never buy that in a million years because I have never done anything personally to a woman to warrant that.

[FrustratedStandards]

He posted those images, because he's in incredible shape, and cute, and yet he's never had a girlfriend. I think I saw a thread from his yesterday, that was all about that.

 

If his personality in real life is just like his personality on LS, AND he is as hot as he is, then I can only think of two reasons why he is single:

 

1) he has an incredibly small penis

2) he has a big issue (jealousy, controlling etc)

or

3) like myself, he wants to find an equivalent to him, and there isn't a girl as physically attractive with an equally great personality

 

Most likely it's the third option, and I don't blame him. Probably in his case, he will end up settling, which is unfair considering there are plenty of great girl who would match him.

 

My question to him would be if he gets shy or nervous to approach a really great girl who would otherwise be interested in him.

[HallowedBeThyName]

^^^This dude just put himself forward as an example. He's not an ugly dude and he is in very good shape. Now I have a question to you: was it incredibly hard for you to look like that? Do you consider it to be hard?

 

 

 

What is this about effort? Is it really too much to ask to be fit? Not even from a dating/sex perspective, but simply from a "I would like to be fit and look like this for me" perspective. It doesn't take that much effort to look good, anymore than it does a woman IMO.

 

 

 

If you want me to be honest, it's 50 times harder for me to look like that than it is for the average woman to look good

 

 

 

I work out 5-6 times a week, consistently manipulate my calories in terms of gaining muscle or losing fat and generally invest 100% of myself to really get the results. It took me about 3 years to look like that, the avg woman can have a perfect body with just 5 to 6 months of lifting weights and watching what she eats

[Woggle]

The way men who are in the same painful and dark place I have been get piled on shows a serious lack of empathy and compassion.

 

I don't know what modern feminism is. If it is about equality I for it but if it is about misandry then I am against it.

[Alma Mobley]

IMO, if wanting a girl who is a weight proportionate as I am, makes her above average, then so am I.

 

So yes, I'm an above average:laugh: guy who wants an above average girl. As for boobs, B, which is average is fine, but bigger is better.

 

A woman proportional to yourself is not wrong, but maybe you should not say you want an average girl as the average in US is overweight. I think it's the terms you use. Also, large breasts (C+) is also not average, esp if you are looking at the under 30 crowd who are not overweight!

[d'Arthez]

If you want me to be honest, it's 50 times harder for me to look like that than it is for the average woman to look good

I think that is because you underestimate how much time women do spend on their appearance. Once you have formed a long term relationship, you will really appreciate how much time a woman needs to look good.

[FrustratedStandards]

I just realized I wrote "think of two reasons" when I listed 3.

 

Aha!

 

Sorry about that.

[somedude81]

No, but the farther a man is from her ideal physique, the harder it will be for her to be attracted to him.

 

If a man wants big boobs, then he will have trouble finding a woman with small breasts attractive, regardless how hot she is otherwise.

 

For some women, this equates to abs.

I just see that as very immature.

 

I am extremely attracted to large breasts but a woman with average size ones, who is pretty far from my ideal can still be very attractive to me.

 

Let me put it this way, my ideal woman is white, 5'4, long blond hair to her mid back, more cute than sexy, green or blue eyes, thin/toned, and somewhere between an E and G cup.

 

Yet I can be completely attracted to an Asian girl who might not meet any of those requirements except for not being fat or ugly.

[johan]

It's not that. I don't agree with everything some of the more bitter men on here say but I can obviously feel their pain across the screen. I can see many of them are really hurting instead of just being one dimensional misogynists and instead of showing some compassion on a board dedicated to people with dating issues the women here just pile on and tear them apart.

 

This lack of empathy just really gets to me. If we want to really heal gender relations it will take mutual respect on both sides and I am 100% for that but if the modern feminist version of it is just that men now get to be oppressed I will never buy that in a million years because I have never done anything personally to a woman to warrant that.

 

I don't know, Woggle. You've gotten about as much empathy as anyone on the site ever has. And you've been chastised, too, and you've taken some low blows along the way. But why is it that you get empathy and those other guys don't? What's the difference? I think most people empathize with empathetic characters. They like to, because they like to help people they see as deserving it. Or at least they like to share their expertise with a good cause.

 

So why do they not help those other guys?

 

The answer is obvious to me.

[Woggle]

I don't know, Woggle. You've gotten about as much empathy as anyone on the site ever has. And you've been chastised, too, and you've taken some low blows along the way. But why is it that you get empathy and those other guys don't? What's the difference? I think most people empathize with empathetic characters. They like to, because they like to help people they see as deserving it. Or at least they like to share their expertise with a good cause.

 

So why do they not help those other guys?

 

The answer is obvious to me.

 

I don't know. Maybe I came here when the women were more empathetic.

[Kamille]

The way men who are in the same painful and dark place I have been get piled on shows a serious lack of empathy and compassion.

 

I don't know what modern feminism is. If it is about equality I for it but if it is about misandry then I am against it.

 

Woggle, empathy and compassion is something we should all demonstrate, regardless of gender. Plenty of women here have shown you empathy and compassion. Plenty of women here frequently display empathy and compassion. Where it gets difficult is when thread after thread after thread is created on here to denigrate women. I cannot show empathy and compassion to posters who are incapable of showing me a modicum of respect.

 

Put another way: the LL (not you) have harldy ever shown empathy and compassion towards women. They read like what they want is for women to turn into barbie dolls who'll be at their mercy, not like human beings with their own life experiences and capacity for action.