Let it be broken

[2sunny]

Ok... So get busy living!

 

What he says the counselor said probably isn't true - was just pointing that out... And suggesting confirming info that seems like her lies.

 

Get moving forward. It's best for you.

 

Let her find her way... Don't give your input unless she asks.

 

Start being busy busy busy!!!!

[livingstrong]

Ok... So get busy living!

 

What he says the counselor said probably isn't true - was just pointing that out... And suggesting confirming info that seems like her lies.

 

Get moving forward. It's best for you.

 

Let her find her way... Don't give your input unless she asks.

 

Start being busy busy busy!!!!

 

 

And busy...busy...busy I will be.

 

She told me she asked her counselor and she said it was okay as long as she didn't get into a relationship...lol. So one of two things....either she is lying or her counselor is a moron.

 

Either way...who cares.

[Radu]

And busy...busy...busy I will be.

 

She told me she asked her counselor and she said it was okay as long as she didn't get into a relationship...lol. So one of two things....either she is lying or her counselor is a moron.

 

Either way...who cares.

 

Counselor is a moron is my bet, based on how she manipulated the last time with 'we're just friends'.

[livingstrong]

Weekends I'm finding are the hardest.

 

She still wants to do things as a "family" and it's tough for me because deep down I want to go. For example, she mentioned taking the kids to sift for minerals on an all-day trip and asked if I would come along. I feel conflicted as to whether I should go or not. My gut says "hell no" but I'm still tempted. I want her to see what it's really like for her to be separated. Could it be all part of the plot to reel me back in to give her peace of mind? I'm suspicious of this.

 

Any thoughts?'

[2sunny]

Weekends I'm finding are the hardest.

 

She still wants to do things as a "family" and it's tough for me because deep down I want to go. For example, she mentioned taking the kids to sift for minerals on an all-day trip and asked if I would come along. I feel conflicted as to whether I should go or not. My gut says "hell no" but I'm still tempted. I want her to see what it's really like for her to be separated. Could it be all part of the plot to reel me back in to give her peace of mind? I'm suspicious of this.

 

Any thoughts?'

 

I found it too hard to "play" THAT game = let's PRETEND we are a happy family even though things are falling apart.

 

In those situations - I chose not to participate.

[livingstrong]

I plan to op out as well. Tough because the younger two boys are 9 and 8 and they love to do family stuff. I want to go really bad but I, too, have trouble playing the PRETEND family thing.

 

Moved my IC up to next Thursday and am excited to go. I also had her sign a document at the notary today agreeing to joint custody during our separation period and a 7 day on and off split. My hope is that this will stick for when the divorce comes.

 

I keep putting off getting the attorney. Probably the sooner the better.

[livingstrong]

I fell into a trap!

 

So last night I met my wife and kids for dinner and noticed a very different demeanor from my wife. She was soft, vulnerable and kind toward me for the first time in quite some time. When we got home, we put the kids to bed and then went into our room and had sex, then she told me she still loved me.

 

Today comes and I ask her what that was all about. She goes on to say that she still wants to be separated but she will have to stay away from me because of physical attraction. She also said she couldn't imagine living without the kids and that she could never go 7 days without seeing them (even though she just signed a contract yesterday at the notary with me saying this).

 

THIS IS ALL PART OF THE CODEPENDENCY. Reality: she's unhappy, I'm unhappy and she has said point-blank that she has no desire to work on the relationship and cannot love me the way I want or deserve to be loved. It's so easy to fall into the trap because it feels so good.

[2sunny]

So - what do you think? You want to be manipulated by sex? It's her cubby way of getting you to do it her way.

[Balzac]

Trap or just back sliding into the old comfort zone. Forgive yourself, stay in the present, focus on tasks you have to maintain sobriety. One day at a time.

Self deprecating thoughts undermine your progress.

 

You've been sexual partners since your adolescence. In the past you have healed the relationship with sexual intimacy. It stands to reason that your new situation and decisions are a work in process.

 

Bear in mind that IC is for the patient. She deserves the individual right and freedom to make her own mistakes. It seems to reason that her focus on a third party is using up energy and focus from her own tasks to find and heal herself. She must come to that realization on her own. Let go of thoughts about educating her. One cannot make another person listen, hear, accept info nor effect change.

 

You express new feelings and beliefs. I'm sure you feel conflicted on many fronts. Keep at it. Always grant yourself compassion and forgiveness.

Thanks for the updates.

[2sunny]

What consequences has she had?

[livingstrong]

Wow...lots of updates since the site went down. You guys have been a real part of helping me get through these rough days and I thank you for it.

 

Saturday night - right before spending the evening with the family it dawned on me that this just didn't feel right. So I flat out told my wife I wasn't comfortable with her talking to someone else and that I would not be able to continue this way. I got dressed and was ready to leave the house. She stopped me and admitted it was not healthy for her and not worth the "drama" and told me should would cut off communication. I accepted and we proceded with the evening.

 

Sunday morning after church I see a text come through from him (labeled as a fake name of course) saying simply "How're things?" My wife said she was not going to respond that that she would tell me if she changed her mind. Monday comes and she completely changes her tune saying that she is not willing to give him up as a friend and that I am being controlling. I keep emphasizing the importance of sticking to our word and being direct and honest but she does not think rationally.

 

Lots of meaningless drama, I know. Why I just spent two paragraphs on it I don't know. For some reason, her having interest in someone else and connecting with them (even if an actual relationship for them is improbable due to circumstance, geography, lifestyle, etc,) bug the friggin sh*t out of me.

 

Tomorrow I start IC. I'm leaving on a business trip next week and am dreading going for some reason. All I can thing about is being away and my wife spending hours chatting intimately with someone else.

 

I have so many things going for me in my life. I've got amazing boys, a thriving company, I'm an Anesthesiologist, lots of support, many talents. God has really blessed me. Why am I so wrapped up in this relationship and what SHE is doing? It just doesn't make any logical sense at all. To make it worse, I keep falling back into a needy pattern of proposing reconciliation. It's been so hard for me to back off and give her space. She seems sure that she wants to live in separate homes when we go back to PA but that is MONTHS away. We are no where near having this home ready to sell.

 

Truth is - I'm afraid. Afraid of being alone, afraid to see her happy with someone else, afraid to see my kids raised by another man. I'm driven right now by fear. It sucks.

[worldgonewrong]

livingstrong- I completely understand that sense of being enveloped by fear. totally with you.

[livingstrong]

Worldgonewrong -

 

I've been reading your story for quite some time and can relate to a great deal of what you say. You are much further in the process than I am right now so my emotions are still riding high. Fear is the most crippling part of the process for me. I keep telling myself - "stay fit, move forward in your life, pour love into the kids, be just, be fair, trust in God, keep sharing and everything will work out favorably." I know this is true, yet it's still challenging on a minute-to-minute basis.

 

IC tomorrow - really hoping this helps me.

[2sunny]

Read co dependency no more - by Beatie (sp?) might be Beattie

 

Another great read is the four agreements by Ruiz - in fact ALL his books are phenomenal and changed MY life!

 

YOUR happiness should not be dependent upon what someone else is or isn't doing...

 

Have the counselor help YOU determine what a solid and healthy boundary looks like for YOU!!!!!

[2sunny]

I view your W as a very cunning and manipulative woman.

 

She doesn't really want YOU - but she wants her lifestyle...

 

And she doesn't want to give up her OM - that would be a deal breaker for me.

 

But when she thinks you're moving forward - she reels you back in with false hope and manipulation (like sex) - or that "hope" that things have changed.

 

Until she does things differently - there's no reason to believe her until she shows EVIDENCE that she has changed completely and earns your trust back.

 

She's not likely to do that without CONSEQUENCES! If she's NOT uncomfortable - she's not going to change! YOU have that ability to make HER uncomfortable...

 

Here's a formula for change:

 

 

Here

 

She's not likely to change unless you make her situation full of dissatisfaction.

[livingstrong]

IC in less than an hour! I'm actually looking forward to this if you can believe it. Last night we went to dinner and then Al-Anon and AA meetings together at the same church. She kept making flippant comments about the separation. It was getting annoying.

 

I told her I bought some books...she rolled her eyes. I allowed this to make me irritated. To cap things off I overheard a conversation with her sister telling her how she planned to tell our little ones, etc. This really pissed me off because we decided it would be a mutual discussion.

 

I got angry and went on a bit of a diatribe. Just so frustrated. I apologized afterward immediately and felt like a heal.

 

"Put your mind in motion before your mouth starts motoring"

[Character Floss]

My wife made several comments about "staring at our belly buttons" and th elike duirng the early stages of MC to demonstrate her disdain for it, and how she was certain it might help many people, but not her. Now some five or six months later she has a different view and looks forward to our Friday night sessions, though we both believe it to be one of the most painful and nausea-inducing experiences of our lives!

 

So there is some hope, but i believe you need to accept the proposition that she is not going to work on things, that she is comfortable enough with the status quo and that change will have to be initiated by you and carried through by you.

 

Good luck.

[2sunny]

Pack her bags and place them by the front door and calmly tell her that she is out. Hand her 100.00. Tell her all her credit cards are close as well as the bank accounts.

 

THEN after having her out for a week or so - see if she rolls her eyes...

[livingstrong]

Hey Guys,

 

It's been a few days since I've posted. Friends are in from out-of-town. My best friend from medical school is here with his family so things have been busy.

 

Thursday I went to my first IC session. Really helpful. I was completely honest with the counselor which was a 1st for me. She basically told me that I need to get it together and focus on me for a while.

 

I've been just really doing my own thing for the past couple days. Tonight we were up late talking - my wife, myself and my best friend. She was very open with him...very warm...took some jabs at me. Said she had wished she had slept around more in college and had more fun. Talked about how she missed smoking pot...stuff like that. It really bothered me. I just listed and tried to take it for what it's worth. Maybe she was just trying to get inside my head. Eventually I just got up, said goodnight and left. She then asked me in the kitchen if "something was wrong and if I was okay."

 

The entire situation felt awkward and unhealthy. Enough said about it I guess.

[2sunny]

Hey Guys,

 

It's been a few days since I've posted. Friends are in from out-of-town. My best friend from medical school is here with his family so things have been busy.

 

Thursday I went to my first IC session. Really helpful. I was completely honest with the counselor which was a 1st for me. She basically told me that I need to get it together and focus on me for a while.

 

I've been just really doing my own thing for the past couple days. Tonight we were up late talking - my wife, myself and my best friend. She was very open with him...very warm...took some jabs at me. Said she had wished she had slept around more in college and had more fun. Talked about how she missed smoking pot...stuff like that. It really bothered me. I just listed and tried to take it for what it's worth. Maybe she was just trying to get inside my head. Eventually I just got up, said goodnight and left. She then asked me in the kitchen if "something was wrong and if I was okay."

 

The entire situation felt awkward and unhealthy. Enough said about it I guess.

 

Sounds like she's setting the stage to sleep with your friend that's visiting.

 

People don't say those totally inappropriate things without an agenda. Her agenda was to show him her invitation to sleep with her - party, smoke pot... All right in front of you.

 

She totally disrespected you in front of your friend!

 

Ya, I'd be completely mad - and I'd be telling her she's acting like a jerk and to leave now!

[Balzac]

It must be fear inducing and frustrating to hear her comment about informing your kids in a unilateral decision after an agreement to approach your kids jointly. It's hard to coparent with an adolescent. Your struggle to resist codependent reactionary familiarity must be feeding every vulnerability of your need for control.

 

How's the devotion to self coming along? One can only hope that your out of town travel will take you into a zone where you can gain perspective. Try as best you can to step back from your emotions about her unfettered access to continued communication to the phantom. It's not something you need to control.

[livingstrong]

It must be fear inducing and frustrating to hear her comment about informing your kids in a unilateral decision after an agreement to approach your kids jointly. It's hard to coparent with an adolescent. Your struggle to resist codependent reactionary familiarity must be feeding every vulnerability of your need for control.

 

How's the devotion to self coming along? One can only hope that your out of town travel will take you into a zone where you can gain perspective. Try as best you can to step back from your emotions about her unfettered access to continued communication to the phantom. It's not something you need to control.

 

The devotion to self does not appear to be coming along very well. Just today (after friends left) I once again engaged in a very unhealthy conversation with my wife...and allowed myself again to be brought in to a bad situation. Again, I said things that were mean only to apologize immediately afterward. I let in ruin my day. The stuff my wife said was hurtful and bruised my ego. The specific thing that hurt was her saying that I came across as needy and pathetic. She again confirmed that she wanted to live away from me with as little contact as possible. We are stuck in this big house and it'll be months before we can move.

 

My counselor told me to stay in the guest house and have as little contact with her as possible. I'm still a mess. I've been going to meetings, talking, journaling, and the truth is that I'm just compulsively thinking about this and so frustrated because I can't change it. I can't change her feelings.

 

I don't have a clue on how to start focusing on me. Any good reads?

[Balzac]

Oh pshaw, you have lots of clues~it just feels awkward and not leading to your sought reward! Take care of your sobriety. You just detailed talking, journaling and meetings. Sleep, nutrition, identifying your feelings is also good. Experiencing those feelings allows them to dissipate. I'm thinking part of that is newly experienced by you.

 

I'd encourage you to quantify her statements of desire and hurtful pejorative comments. She's in the moment. Filled apparently with pent up aggression and loss of self. In her mind she's given and given but now feels she can back away from that role. Pregnancies, your education, staffing, a new company and now she's all about her time. I'm not justifying her actions nor her words but it reads here that the acting out is impulsive. She feels justified and entitled.

She in point of fact seems to be the needy one right now.

 

Try as best you can to feel your stuff yet keep a perspective. Improving who you are as a man, father, husband is long term stuff. You're good at delayed gratification. I suspect it's infuriating to finally have achieved goals only to now have this task w/o specific steps to define the win.

 

I honestly read your updates as more progress for you than you accept in yourself. Perfectionism has no role in this. it's not the learning curve you're used to. Embrace what you've accomplished today, forgive yourself for weakness. It's a work in process my friend.

 

It's likely a very vulnerable time with friends involved. This is not a comfy kinda journey.

 

Keep talking. It's of wise and experienced folks here.

Why crucify yourself for feeling hurt and vulnerable?

[livingstrong]

Oh pshaw, you have lots of clues~it just feels awkward and not leading to your sought reward! Take care of your sobriety. You just detailed talking, journaling and meetings. Sleep, nutrition, identifying your feelings is also good. Experiencing those feelings allows them to dissipate. I'm thinking part of that is newly experienced by you.

 

I'd encourage you to quantify her statements of desire and hurtful pejorative comments. She's in the moment. Filled apparently with pent up aggression and loss of self. In her mind she's given and given but now feels she can back away from that role. Pregnancies, your education, staffing, a new company and now she's all about her time. I'm not justifying her actions nor her words but it reads here that the acting out is impulsive. She feels justified and entitled.

She in point of fact seems to be the needy one right now.

 

Try as best you can to feel your stuff yet keep a perspective. Improving who you are as a man, father, husband is long term stuff. You're good at delayed gratification. I suspect it's infuriating to finally have achieved goals only to now have this task w/o specific steps to define the win.

 

I honestly read your updates as more progress for you than you accept in yourself. Perfectionism has no role in this. it's not the learning curve you're used to. Embrace what you've accomplished today, forgive yourself for weakness. It's a work in process my friend.

 

It's likely a very vulnerable time with friends involved. This is not a comfy kinda journey.

 

Keep talking. It's of wise and experienced folks here.

Why crucify yourself for feeling hurt and vulnerable?

 

I keep sharing because I know this forum is helping me. I'm so educated and successful, yet so vulnerable in this situation. Never before have I felt so lost or confused. Perfectionism is a vice for me, along with a laundry list of other "defects" that I have come to know. Some ) it all seems so clear and I feel okay - okay with being along, okay with mourning the loss of a marriage, even okay (and excited) to move on with my life. Other moments I feel insecure, needy, and fearful of how this will impact my children. When I think about my wife with someone else, it literally makes me sick to my stomach. Truth is that our issues have been there for quite some time. The relationship has been toxic for several years. Even if things were to continue the way they've been, I could not go on like this.

 

My wife admittedly feels entitled and justified for all the sacrifice she has made over the years. I just wanna get better so I can see this more clearly. One of the main issues we have with the separation is our strong physical attraction to one another. After a week or so, typical patter takes place where I approach her, we have sex, and then the poisonous cycle starts over again. It's very toxic. That's one part I haven't figured out how to stop.

[Balzac]

Hey there Dr., sex is a biological drive. As you begin to recognize a toxic pattern, you can effect change. Sex was a healing part of the cycle. When the pain after sex is acknowledged within you, I suspect you'll grieve the loss of that too. We all resist change.

 

Honestly, I think the sex worked, it's your one path to convert her back to you. The phantom man isn't going to cock block you!!!

Draw a couple decision trees and kinda map out how you feel.

Your an analytical guy.

 

Nobody said that letting toxic go was going to be easy. You can win the sexual encounter but at what cost to your self? Your brain is telling you things have been toxic for a long time. Your ego is telling you she has this want for you sexually and that is how you'll make it all go to the good.

Look for the gray between black and white. Grey is the living zone of the emotionally healthy.

 

Failure is not in your glossary. Think in terms of choosing to make solid, healthy decisions. For you to be with her requires her to get healthy too. It's not about justifying her position of I want to be young and carefree.