dasein Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) I don't want to thread jump, but you're wrong dude. You did that when you injected inflammatory, bad statistics from the abuse industry into this thread. CDC study on sexual violence in the U.S. overstates the problem - The Washington Post A government conspiracy? Why would the government want to make us look like a country full of pedophiles? It serves the victimization politics of the left together with the "moral outrage" politics of the right simultaneously, together with the entire social work/feminist voting bloc abuse industry, so it's no wonder that bad childhood sexual abuse stats are the darling of both sides of the aisle. We all suffer, particularly men and loving fathers who are ever more scrutinized in discriminatory ways. Mess with the abuse industry, even via sound research, and let the government and "industry" howling begin. Rind et al. controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia External Validity That's what credible researchers get when they even question premises of the "industry," everyone from Congress to Dr. Laura leaps on board because... it hit them square in the wallet. You would think that research determining that sexual abuse is not often as harmful as the pschotherapy industry leads us to believe would be WELCOME as allowing concentration on true damage, focusing on measured narrow results in tailoring mental health solutions. Wouldn't it be great if the problem were overemphasized? Of course not, any messing with the orthodoxy and its wallet is heresy and let the "pedophile justification screaming" from all angles begin. The actual questions in the CDC study were lifted from noted "abuse industry" professional academic CE Wyatt (inflating sexual abuse stats is this woman's entire career) in a 1985 study finding that nearly 70%!?! of U.S. women had been sexually abused. Does that set off any "fishy smell" detectors? Of course not, the more the merrier! Those questions are asked via phone survey, and as Dr. Sommers points out above, are far from definitive indicators of sexual abuse. The survey takers, NOT the respondents are given leeway to determine what is sexual abuse, and in fact, in all similarly bogus studies dealing with CSA and rape, most of the respondents don't consider they have been sexually abused or raped at all. That's not all. Another little stat trick is including not just biological children under 12 or even 14, but all the way up to the age of consent. Some of the studies limit to 5 yrs older aggressors, but many don't. OR most commonly, they lithely switch back and forth between the two as it suits them. Suzy gets her boob grabbed at the Senior Prom? sexual abuse. Suzy cracks her date Bob in the nuts in retaliation? sexual abuse. Suzy has sex and regrets it the next day? sexual abuse. Bob regrets it too? more sexual abuse. Suzy's obnoxious cousin waves a Playboy in her face? sexual abuse. Suzy walks in on dad wacking to net porn? sexual abuse. Suzy sees mom and dad doing it? sexual abuse. The goal is to paint the American family as a hotbed of sexual aggression and mistreatment of children, the home full of pedophile uncles and deviant dads, when in actuality, most of the cited "abuse" takes place outside the home in the normal course of sexual exploration post puberty. They use stats of an admittedly sexually active post puberty pre adult age group in the U.S., probably as highly active as any other similar population in the world, to bolster the stats dishonestly to outrageous levels. Don't drink the koolaid, and as always, readers should do their own research and decide for themselves. Edited May 18, 2012 by dasein
dasein Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Wanted to add that OP, keep your eyes open. If it is legitimate abuse, I wonder at her willingness to engage in any physical activity with you at all, and especially that it hasn't come up until now. Good luck whatever happens.
Cypress25 Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 How can you date someone for almost a year? You go on a few dates, you both check whether you feel chemistry and you check if you're both compatible with each other and if so, then you both agree on a relationship. How and why would you drag out that process for almost a year? What in God's name are you talking about? They're in a relationship. When two people are in a relationship, that means they're dating each other. You don't stop going out on dates once a relationship has been declared. Wanted to add that OP, keep your eyes open. If it is legitimate abuse, I wonder at her willingness to engage in any physical activity with you at all, and especially that it hasn't come up until now. Ugh, now here come the guys who are going to say she's lying about the abuse. This is exactly why so many victims of abuse never report it, because they're afraid no one will believe them. If she said she was abused, then she was abused. Jesus Christ.
dasein Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Ugh, now here come the guys who are going to say she's lying about the abuse. This is exactly why so many victims of abuse never report it, because they're afraid no one will believe them. OP was -literally- coached in this thread to elicit a "yes I was abused" answer from GF. This seems to be an unreasonable stock response to several threads here lately. Moreover, he is looking for reasons to let her off the hook for not having a full relationship with him as he has stated and implied several times in the thread. If she said she was abused, then she was abused. Of course, as long as a woman says it, it's always true because women never lie. A woman who just didn't like sex, or was using it to manipulate her BF, for example, would never ever take the out of "abuse" when it was offered to her on a silver platter. Never. So we shouldn't even consider the possibility, right? Helps make the points of mine in the above long post very nicely. Edited May 18, 2012 by dasein
WonderKid Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Ain't no way in hell I am gonna date a girl and she had sex in her previous relationships and not have it with me. And, gets edgy once I bring it up? Nope! I would leave her. Sorry. It would make me think something's wrong with me. Attraction is important. And if a girl isn't attracted to me I can't see myself staying with them. That makes the entire relationship from then on an entire lie.
Els Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Sorry to hear that, OP. You'd definitely need to take it slow in that case and let her open up to it herself. It must have taken her a lot of courage to talk to you about that, and you shouldn't treat that sort of trust lightly. 1
Heart Of A Lion Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 What in God's name are you talking about? They're in a relationship. When two people are in a relationship, that means they're dating each other. You don't stop going out on dates once a relationship has been declared. Traditional dating is where two potential partners meet with the goal to check for chemistry and compatibility in order to establish whether they want to have a relationship. I don't know what kind of dating you're referring to, I just call that "going out".
missloyal Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 No, she is not a born again virgin or anything. She is not religious at all. No, the furthest she will go is making out. I'm always the one making the advances, and then she pushes me away like she is disgusted with sex. is she a lesbian who is in denial. and that is why she appears to be descusted with sex.
Author JaySonM Posted May 18, 2012 Author Posted May 18, 2012 Traditional dating is where two potential partners meet with the goal to check for chemistry and compatibility in order to establish whether they want to have a relationship. I don't know what kind of dating you're referring to, I just call that "going out". That's not how I was brought up. Dating has an ambiguous meaning. Dating can be getting to know each other and finding similarities and differences. The other kind is when a monogamous relationship is established, BUT you learn in my depth about a person.
Cypress25 Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 he is looking for reasons to let her off the hook for not having a full relationship with him as he has stated and implied several times in the thread. Let her off the hook? She's not on the hook. Not having sex with your boyfriend is not a crime. You can have a full relationship without sex, especially at their age. Of course, as long as a woman says it, it's always true because women never lie. A woman who just didn't like sex, or was using it to manipulate her BF, for example, would never ever take the out of "abuse" when it was offered to her on a silver platter. Never. So we shouldn't even consider the possibility, right? Truthfully, you're a horrible person. If you think all women are liars, you should just stop dating entirely. Nobody would lie about abuse just to manipulate someone. You'd have to be seriously mentally ill to do something like that. It would be much easier for her to just end the relationship if she didn't want to be with him, instead of telling outrageous lies. But I've heard your opinion on this before, so it's pointless to argue with you. You think any woman who says she's been abused is lying. You seem to think that rape and sexual abuse don't even exist, it's just a worldwide conspiracy orchestrated by women to get sympathy. Why else would you automatically assume that every claim of abuse is a lie? You're not even willing to entertain the notion that it could be true. I hope you get anally raped by a gang of escaped convicts who pass you around, and then have no one believe you when you try to report it to the police. 1
Heart Of A Lion Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) That's not how I was brought up. Dating has an ambiguous meaning. Dating can be getting to know each other and finding similarities and differences. The other kind is when a monogamous relationship is established, BUT you learn in my depth about a person. Learning in depth about a person usually doesn't happen during nights out. I stick with my definition of dating where two potential partners meet with the goal to check for chemistry and compatibility in order to establish whether they want to have a relationship. What you and Cypress are referring to is just two partners going out. And during nights out there's usually no "in depth" getting to know each other. Such nights tend to be lighthearted and fun, but they often don't allow for deep and heavy conversations where you scratch below the surface of a person. It's probably why you still don't know why she doesn't want to have sex with you, even after a year. The dating has to stop and the relationship has to start. If not, then in my opinion the best thing to do would be for you to move on, because she doesn't seem to be sexually attracted to you. If she's willing to have sex with other men, but not you, then you do the math. Edited May 19, 2012 by Heart Of A Lion
Els Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 Let her off the hook? She's not on the hook. Not having sex with your boyfriend is not a crime. You can have a full relationship without sex, especially at their age. Truth. It's amusing, and somewhat sad, that the OP has displayed more maturity so far than some of the much older men on this thread. Age truly does not beget maturity, I guess. He has still a lot to learn, but his heart seems to be genuinely in the right place and he seems like he's trying to do the right thing by his gf. Which is commendable. On the other hand, some of those claiming to be more 'experienced' seem to be only experienced at approaching everything and everyone in an incredibly selfish way. 'She owes ME sex, I'm not letting her off the hook.' 'She's lying just to get sympathy, -I- won't let myself be suckered by such a ploy'. Mememememememe. Even IF she happened to be one of the very rare cases of people lying about abuse, far better to give the benefit of the doubt and have it turn out to be a lie, than otherwise. If someone with the appearance of a starved beggar came to me and asked me for $2, I would give it to him. If he turns out to be a liar, I know I did the right thing. And that outcome would have been 100000000000000x more acceptable than if I had turned him down and he turned out to genuinely be a suffering person in need. Imagine if a partner of dasein's ever confides her past abuse in him, and gets torn down for it. Ugh. 1
dasein Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 'She owes ME sex, I'm not letting her off the hook.' 'She's lying just to get sympathy, -I- won't let myself be suckered by such a ploy'. Mememememememe. Typical illogical, unreasoned misrepresentation of those who disagree with you and think relationships are a two way street, not just a "getgetget" for the party with the vagina. OP was going to stick with this woman from the start, it's self-evident in his first few posts, he certainly doesn't need encouragement there. She could tell him Zeus flew down as a swan trailing pink fairy dust and put a padlock on her p-ssy and he'd buy it. Of course the ever present female apologist crowd here doesn't help that issue in suggesting that expecting to have an ADULT relationship as a NON-VIRGIN for TEN months and not give your partner sexual satisfaction during that time is just swell, and not the sign of a selfish, manipulative little bitch on the other side. Of course it's some kind of sexual abuse and not a dozen much more likely explanations. It simply has to be.
mesmerized Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 Typical illogical, unreasoned misrepresentation of those who disagree with you and think relationships are a two way street, not just a "getgetget" for the party with the vagina. OP was going to stick with this woman from the start, it's self-evident in his first few posts, he certainly doesn't need encouragement there. She could tell him Zeus flew down as a swan trailing pink fairy dust and put a padlock on her p-ssy and he'd buy it. Of course the ever present female apologist crowd here doesn't help that issue in suggesting that expecting to have an ADULT relationship as a NON-VIRGIN for TEN months and not give your partner sexual satisfaction during that time is just swell, and not the sign of a selfish, manipulative little bitch on the other side. Of course it's some kind of sexual abuse and not a dozen much more likely explanations. It simply has to be. Wow dasein, your posts are honestly disturbing. The OP himself says that is the case and you still want to deny?? I read the first post and it just screams sexual abuse. I've known people in the same situation and that's exactly how they ended up being. Ofcourse being a male you'd never really had to worry about sexual abuse and females just need to get over it. Dasein's imaginary daughter: dad I just got raped. Dasein: Stop being a feminist! 1
Els Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 A sexually-abused 19 year old girl not having sex with her bf of 10 months makes her a selfish, manipulative bitch? Wait, what do you actually THINK happens in those amazing traditional cultures and bygone eras that you and several of your comrades moon about? If we're going off such gross exaggerations here, the descriptions of YOUR character would span a page long and utilize every offensive term in the dictionary, I'd think. 2
dasein Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 Imagine if a partner of dasein's ever confides her past abuse in him, and gets torn down for it. Ugh. Missed this part. Since you mention my name in your post, I'll make a special response on this topic just for you! Yeah, I heard and listened to all the "abuse" tales during the heyday of the abuse industry in the 90s. A whole string of women I dated were all "raped this," "abused that," I bought it all hook line and sinker without question for years. Listened without any doubt to their invariable tales of woe at the hands of Uncle Festermolester or Cousin Jimbob. Some were more creative, some less. I duly gave them a shoulder to cry on, and wondered "where are all these monsters? I would kill a man who did this!" What a f-cking complete sucker I was. Then one day I was sitting at brunch listening to women trade their various "heinous tales of craven sexual abuse by men." By that point, I had received training and lots of experience in detecting lies. A truly GIGANTIC light bulb went off, and you know what? They were all full of sh-t. The queen bee would set the tone, and then they would all go around the table fabricating these hilariously implausible tales out of thin air just to be "in the victim group," and I felt like a complete jackass and fool in that moment. One of the greatest epiphanies I ever had learning how facilely women rationalize and lie with no concern whatsoever for the subjects of their slanders or the consequences. You see, it's simply one of the many flaws of women to fabricate at the drop of a hat, in atrocious ways that are very easy to spot, no matter who is harmed, no matter the consequence, just so long as they get their little drama, sympathy or emotion fix and fit in with the gals. How craven and disgusting, a man would get his ass beaten. No one is going to ever beat their ass for lying, so why not? just freely launch massive fabrications out like balloons filled with bad, stinking air. It's what women do. Men lie too of course, probably just as much, but the difference is we have a quality called "shame" that says "geez this is too far, enough is enough." Women are blessedly spared that quality because when it is present in any degree, the absolute torrent of their dishonesty drives them bat-sh-t insane in a short time. Since my epiphany, I've heard the standard tales of abuse, but this time I actually look into it. When I meet family members I drop hints. Last time, when I dropped the hint to the brother, he was like, "she didn't tell you that Dr. Demento story about my Mom's old BFs feeling her up did she? Absolute fabrication, didn't happen." Then when they start, knowing it's a lie from the getgo, I can just encourage them to see how far they will go. I can have them literally tied to a rack being whipped and poked with white hot pokers by Torquemada by the end of their sordid tale. All a shuck and jive, all in the name of the endless self-absorbed female craving for attention and sympathy, and most disgusting of all, utterly trivializes the few real victims of atrocious abuse in our society. They don't care about the real victims though. Hell they don't care about anyone but themselves. No one who can lie so facilely has a conscience. So of course OP, decide for yourself. The experience I list above is 100% true and gained from more than a dozen relationships with women over 25 years, many many more acquaintance. Have heard every possible abuse tale you can conceive of. They trade these tales like kids trade baseball cards. Don't believe me, watch how violently they react in this thread when the true nature of the canard is suggested. 1
Els Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 You clearly live in a 'reality' so warped by your own demented mind that you only ever see what you want to see, dasein. I feel sorry for you. Fortunately, not all men are like you. 1
dasein Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 Wow dasein, your posts are honestly disturbing. Sorry you feel that way, all "disturbed" and "creeped out" by internet posts that disagree with your POV. Oooo scawy!
dasein Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 You clearly live in a 'reality' so warped by your own demented mind that you only ever see what you want to see, dasein. I feel sorry for you. Fortunately, not all men are like you. I feel so chastised and ashamed.
Author JaySonM Posted May 19, 2012 Author Posted May 19, 2012 Typical illogical, unreasoned misrepresentation of those who disagree with you and think relationships are a two way street, not just a "getgetget" for the party with the vagina. OP was going to stick with this woman from the start, it's self-evident in his first few posts, he certainly doesn't need encouragement there. She could tell him Zeus flew down as a swan trailing pink fairy dust and put a padlock on her p-ssy and he'd buy it. Of course the ever present female apologist crowd here doesn't help that issue in suggesting that expecting to have an ADULT relationship as a NON-VIRGIN for TEN months and not give your partner sexual satisfaction during that time is just swell, and not the sign of a selfish, manipulative little bitch on the other side. Of course it's some kind of sexual abuse and not a dozen much more likely explanations. It simply has to be. lol @ pink fairy dust. Put please dont call my gf a bitch. I know you had some bad experiences, but it is not the case with all women. To answer your other post: Hell yeah, some are liars,but my gf wouldnt lie to me about something she could barely say without crying and shaking. I know and trust her. You seem like a really cool dude, but some of your logic as far as girls in your posts can be a little out there.
dasein Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 You are right on the "bitch" comment OP, sorry, though it wasn't directly calling her that. Just keep your eyes open man, don't make the mistakes I made buying into common, institutionalized female lies. If your GF was really abused, it will become very evident. The true cases really stick out among all the hype and lies. In any event, consider moving on. You and this one are a bad bet. With just a little effort, you could be in a normal, full on sexual relationship with a woman just as desirable who thinks enough of you to want you to feel pleasure. Seek that out, don't try to fix some broken thing. 1
Author JaySonM Posted May 19, 2012 Author Posted May 19, 2012 You are right on the "bitch" comment OP, sorry, though it wasn't directly calling her that. Just keep your eyes open man, don't make the mistakes I made buying into common, institutionalized female lies. If your GF was really abused, it will become very evident. The true cases really stick out among all the hype and lies. In any event, consider moving on. You and this one are a bad bet. With just a little effort, you could be in a normal, full on sexual relationship with a woman just as desirable who thinks enough of you to want you to feel pleasure. Seek that out, don't try to fix some broken thing. No problem, and I know you weren't. I just dont like her being called that word in any form or tense. I believe it is real, and moving on after she poured her dark past to me is cruel. I couldnt do that just being the person that I am, and I love her. She's not broken, just a little torn. I would like to be mend her torn heart not break it by breaking up with her because she doesnt give me sex. In time she will open up to me "literally" 3
Els Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 No problem, and I know you weren't. I just dont like her being called that word in any form or tense. I believe it is real, and moving on after she poured her dark past to me is cruel. I couldnt do that just being the person that I am, and I love her. She's not broken, just a little torn. I would like to be mend her torn heart not break it by breaking up with her because she doesnt give me sex. In time she will open up to me "literally" Sweet of you. I hope that she too will appreciate and reciprocate your devotion and care. Good luck to both of you! 1
Heart Of A Lion Posted May 19, 2012 Posted May 19, 2012 It's not clear to me OP. Did she tell you she was raped or is that one of your possible theories to explain her behavior? Since she had sex with other men, but not you, I'm putting my money on a lack of sexual attraction from her side. 1
Author JaySonM Posted May 19, 2012 Author Posted May 19, 2012 It's not clear to me OP. Did she tell you she was raped or is that one of your possible theories to explain her behavior? Since she had sex with other men, but not you, I'm putting my money on a lack of sexual attraction from her side. Yeah, she said she was. She lied about sleeping with her exs' because her real first sexual experiences were abuse. I dont like the fact that she lied to me, but hell it was obviously hard to tell the truth about that.
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