do men care about if the woman has a career

[d'Arthez]

Of course, if a young couple has significant loans to pay back, they should be thinking waaaay more than twice about their decision to start a family. Children are a necessary expenditure, and if the couple feels that they cannot comfortably support a child given all of the above factors, it would be a good idea to wait.

And that is already happening. People in the West are having fewer and fewer children. Fertility rates have been dropping massively, since children have become so expensive to maintain. Saddling millions of smart people with massive college debts won't do the economy any good. Unless you want to outsource the services sector as well? Wake up America! Wake up Europe!

[Fondue]

I turned 25 last month, and many would consider what I make is "a lot" for my age. I am also about to sign the contract on an apartment I bought (buying?) in NYC. This kind of cements that I am a "catch" and at least somewhat well-off.

 

Some might say I am stable and can have a gf that can't produce much $$$ and still be able to have a relationship that allows us to have fun-- but despite this, I will never date a woman who isn't making 80% of what I do. I do not plan on carrying anyone.

[Sanman]

And she's also expected to be the husband's sexual playtoy so he doesn't feel "neglected" right along with birthing and caring for his children, cooking all the meals, doing all the laundry, cleaning the house on a daily basis, doing the food shopping, raising the kids AND being the one to keep everything running smoothly on a daily basis.

 

I really don't know where women get this. I have yet to encounter a marriage where a woman is the man's sexual plaything. I don't know one woman that doesn't do anything she also does not enjoy in the bedroom. The lack of BJ jokes among my married friends is quite common. Also, all the men I know help out around the house regardless of their wife's job status.

[Negative Nancy]

It's funny how DY and Negative Nancy say they both wanna be a stay-at-home moms. Both of them whine about men a CRAPLOAD yet both want men to support them. Just goes to show you the women who criticize men the most are the ones in need of them the most. Women can say they wanna be stay-at-home moms because they find the corporate world too stressful, but do they not realize men feel the same way? Few people in life get the career they like. Men deal with more stress because we work longer hours and a heavier workload. Yet we can't fall back on our gender and have someone else pay our way through.

 

Tell us, Mr Moron, who is going to take care of the infant during the first couple years and how exactly is it going to look like if both parents work? Someone HAS to stay home during the first years, unless of course you are suggesting that the baby is going to feed itself and change its own diapers and can already be left alone for 8 hours a day.

 

If your predictable solution is to hire a nanny - why even have a child in the first place? I've never understood the attitude of parents who had children and then rushed back to work as quick as possible. And it's not like fathers would want to care of the child during the first years anyway. Going to the office all of a sudden doesnt look so bad to them anymore when they've spent one weekend with their children, dealing with screaming babies, dirty napkins and getting up every 3 hours each night.

 

It's not about wanting support from men so we can sit around all day, watch Oprah and eat icecream - it is what makes most sense if you decide to have kids. No wonder the birthrates stagnate or decline with attitudes like yours. Like maybealone said

 

I cannot imagine what it must be like to pick the kids up at daycare or after-school care at 5:30 p.m., throw together some crap food or pick up pizza because I'm too tired to cook, eat, and then put the kids to bed after seeing them for a grand total of about two hours, only to do it all again the next day.7

 

I agree with this.

 

And this:

 

What a ridiculous way to put it - "sponging" off her husband.

 

More than likely, hubby will work a 40 or 50 hour week and have nights and weekend off. Wifey, however, is on call and working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And she's also expected to be the husband's sexual playtoy so he doesn't feel "neglected" right along with birthing and caring for his children, cooking all the meals, doing all the laundry, cleaning the house on a daily basis, doing the food shopping, raising the kids AND being the one to keep everything running smoothly on a daily basis.

Very true.

 

What both of you don't get is that I think the option for men to be Stay At Home Dads is great! If a father wants to be home with his children and his wife wants to expand her career, that's wonderful! I like the fact that there is more of an option now then ever for there to be SAHDs. All I said is that I don't find much satisfaction in having a "career" and I like taking care of a home and family. So I really don't get either one of your responses XXOO and Oxy.

 

And I think it's utterly ridiculous for you Oxy to claim that women simply fall back on men to pay their way. Since Feminism, what we see are more and more women becoming educated and getting corporate jobs and enjoying their jobs. The reason women had to relay on their husbands for money was because that was the way it was. Women were not afforded the respect to be treated as equals in the workplace. Clearly things are different now and that's a good thing. And what we see is more women working full time, on top of having children and taking care of the majority of the house work. And if a woman was a stay at home Mom, that doens't mean she is sponging off her husband. It means they are a team with seperate goals and purposes but which both contribute to the family. It is not easy being home all day with little ones and caring for a family anymore then it's easy to get up everyday and go into work.

 

very well said, as usual.

 

I think it is a very sad testament for our society if both parents HAVE to work and one income isn't enough to provide for a family anymore.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Negative Nancy

[Els]

One needs only to live life for 50+ years as I have, see and hear many things over the years from friends, family and co-workers, and read a multitude of message boards to see a very common pattern of men feeling "neglected and unloved" because their wives are busting their butts doing all the housework, caring for the kids and a lot of the time, ALSO working a full time job, as well.

 

It's extremely RARE when a man TRULY does 50% of the housework and childcare when his wife is ALSO working a full time job. The majority of the time, it all falls on a woman's shoulders. But that doesn't keep men from whining and complaining - while they're sitting on their asses watching TV and she's busting HERS doing laundry and bathing the kids - that their wives aren't jumping around like a trained seal in the bedroom for them and they're 'deprived.' That would usually be because most of these women are too damned exhausted by 8 pm every night.

 

Men have a bigger workload my ASS.

 

Been there, done that, known many women over the years in the same boat - working full time AND carrying 99% of the household and childcare duties as well. It's not unique - it's pretty much the NORM.

 

Well... I wouldn't pin all of the blame for that on the men. Women have choices as well. Some of the men who do this, do it because they're allowed to get away with it. I mean, if the wife happily contributes 50% of the income and then does 90% of the housework of her own accord, wouldn't the average guy be happy to go along with it?

 

One can always set boundaries for oneself.

[NYC-BigKat]

well i met several guys over the past few years who insist on wanting a woman who has a career, in fact this preference seems to override certain other aspects such as physical looks or body.

 

are these guys the norm or they are like, not common? i admit most of them are in unstable positions in life (still in college, some just graduated) but they are good looking (at least to me) and one has a high salary for his age (mid 20s). they arent the moocher type or at least i dont think so.

 

well i was just thinking..if hes making a lot..and he really likes her..shes hot and pretty..she just does not want to further her career (as a waitress or a gas pump attendant) or education nor wants to learn stuff like driving or cooking..is that bad?

 

are looks not enough to compensate for those other things?

 

i was forced to do a lot of things in life like college and stuff, plus when i was 15 the first guy i dated let me pay for all our dates, or he paid for his while i watched him eat and i was hungry. that was a riveting moment in life wherein i said to myself that i am not going to depend on someone or anyone or else i will go hungry...lol.

 

I dont really care that much nope 'cause I just graduated college & gonna be starting my consulting career next month starting at over $70,000 a yr & up to 6 figures so it doesn't matter really. I be happy if she just works & is pretty & nice & gives me a chance so I can really take care of her .

[Sanman]

One needs only to live life for 50+ years as I have, see and hear many things over the years from friends, family and co-workers, and read a multitude of message boards to see a very common pattern of men feeling "neglected and unloved" because their wives are busting their butts doing all the housework, caring for the kids and a lot of the time, ALSO working a full time job, as well.

 

It's extremely RARE when a man TRULY does 50% of the housework and childcare when his wife is ALSO working a full time job. The majority of the time, it all falls on a woman's shoulders. But that doesn't keep men from whining and complaining - while they're sitting on their asses watching TV and she's busting HERS doing laundry and bathing the kids - that their wives aren't jumping around like a trained seal in the bedroom for them and they're 'deprived.' That would usually be because most of these women are too damned exhausted by 8 pm every night.

 

Men have a bigger workload my ASS.

 

Been there, done that, known many women over the years in the same boat - working full time AND carrying 99% of the household and childcare duties as well. It's not unique - it's pretty much the NORM.

 

 

C'mon now. That is both anecdotal and limited to the people you know. I could point to my good friend that brings home the money, still drops his wife at her part-time weekend job and does all the grocery shopping/weekend errands on his own. I could point to the neighbors I had growing up where mom stayed home with a full-time, live-in nanny. I could point the many upper middle class housewives I see do nothing but lunch, shop, and spend the afternoon in the gym. However, that is as unfair a characterization of women as your characterization of men. Who works harder is different in every couple and a function of the two people in the relationship. Many women my age don't know how to cook, and a number of them don't really know how to do laundry of other household things either. More guy friends I know cook than female friends because many of our mothers did not really cook. There is a running joke where I grew up about a woman being a good Jewish cook... she can call for take-out like nobody's business.

[maybealone]

I don't want someone whose life-goal is to get married so that she can sponge off her husband.

What a ridiculous way to put it - "sponging" off her husband.

 

To all these men who think that women who stay at home are "sponges," I hope none of you plan to ever have kids. Talk about sponges! And you can't even get them jobs for the first 14 years or so of their lives.

 

Well... I wouldn't pin all of the blame for that on the men. Women have choices as well. Some of the men who do this, do it because they're allowed to get away with it. I mean, if the wife happily contributes 50% of the income and then does 90% of the housework of her own accord, wouldn't the average guy be happy to go along with it?

 

One can always set boundaries for oneself.

 

True, but the minute a woman asks for help, she is often labeled a "nag."

[xxoo]

Well, whether it is doable depends on a lot of things. If you are close to any major city, the average household income will be significantly higher than $50k (Anywhere between ~70-90K usually). Also, what kind of education did you have before being a SAHP parent? My gf and I make a lot of money combined, but we will be paying off 2-3 mortgages if you include our combined student loans. Even with $100k in salary, that can get rough if you are paying 30-40k in just loans and mortgage. While that seems like a a lot, it is what would be on your head now if you chose to go to a private college.

 

These are good points, but you'd have to be a fool to have that much student debt if you are going into a 50k a year job.

 

Personally, we had degrees, but low student debt, when we decided to start a family. We'd planned for that.

[Els]

 

True, but the minute a woman asks for help, she is often labeled a "nag."

 

Well, if a woman speaks nicely to her husband and explains what she needs help on and why (as opposed to genuinely nagging as some do), and he just ignores her request and calls her a 'nag', that says a lot about his character and his ability to contribute to the relationship, does it not? In that case, methinks they have way more serious issues to deal with than just one partner being tired or the dishes being undone.

 

Alternatively, there is the option of simply... not doing it. This may not be an option where it comes to childcare, but I never understood the rationale behind the actions of the few women I know who consistently take care of their husbands' every need while scowling and nagging about it. His laundry doesn't HAVE to be done by you. His dinner doesn't HAVE to be prepared by you, and if he can't find his stuff because he leaves it scattered around, well, sucks to be him. Many people don't learn responsibility because there was always someone taking care of those things for them, all their lives. Continuing to do so is only perpetuating the cycle.

[Sanman]

These are good points, but you'd have to be a fool to have that much student debt if you are going into a 50k a year job.

 

Personally, we had degrees, but low student debt, when we decided to start a family. We'd planned for that.

 

 

Yet, I know plenty of people that do. Many expected pre- recession salaries, were ignorant young people, or thought that private school name would buy them better job opportunities. A few lawyers I know come to mind.

[Ross MwcFan]

well i met several guys over the past few years who insist on wanting a woman who has a career, in fact this preference seems to override certain other aspects such as physical looks or body.

 

are these guys the norm or they are like, not common? i admit most of them are in unstable positions in life (still in college, some just graduated) but they are good looking (at least to me) and one has a high salary for his age (mid 20s). they arent the moocher type or at least i dont think so.

 

well i was just thinking..if hes making a lot..and he really likes her..shes hot and pretty..she just does not want to further her career (as a waitress or a gas pump attendant) or education nor wants to learn stuff like driving or cooking..is that bad?

 

are looks not enough to compensate for those other things?

 

i was forced to do a lot of things in life like college and stuff, plus when i was 15 the first guy i dated let me pay for all our dates, or he paid for his while i watched him eat and i was hungry. that was a riveting moment in life wherein i said to myself that i am not going to depend on someone or anyone or else i will go hungry...lol.

 

Not at all, it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

The only thing that would bother me would be if we were living together and she didn't have a job at all. Because then I'd be having to support her and myself, which would mean that I'd probably be finding it hard to make ends meet.

[kaylan]

Is that really right? I guess I've only dated people in the top 5% and my friends and their husbands live in the top 5%. That seems low. Guess I am average though!

wow you are really out of touch with what America really is if you think over 150k is average. jeez

[carhill]

It seems younger people, in general, are more 'overt' about such issues. Perhaps that's a result of being socialized in predominantly two income households, or by single parents who received child support or struggled without it. Economic realities are more at the forefront and the younger generations are more 'out there' with their opinions and preferences.

 

Myself, reflective of my socialization and age demographic, I prefer a woman with a synergistic work ethic. Her specific realization of that ethic is largely irrelevant. So, hence, her 'career' is largely meaningless to me as a component of attraction, though I may be and likely would be curious about and interested in it, reflective of my style of living life. That 'career' could be as diverse as being a medical professional to running a fruit stand. It really doesn't matter. Synergy matters.

[DjinnAgain]

wow you are really out of touch with what America really is if you think over 150k is average. jeez

 

Didn't say that was average. Said I was.

 

I merely said that I didn't realize it was top 5%... when so many people I know or have known are in that arena. That seemed strange.

[Ross MwcFan]

wow you are really out of touch with what America really is if you think over 150k is average. jeez

 

Why are you always so abrasive towards other members on here?

[FitChick]

I merely said that I didn't realize it was top 5%... when so many people I know or have known are in that arena. That seemed strange.

 

Not strange when you consider most people mingle with others like themselves. Human nature.

[musemaj11]

Working outside the home was once not an acceptable "option" for women -- they had to work hard to get accepted in the workforce. Likewise, men could work hard to change the societal norms so that stay-at-home dads were more acceptable. If a family can afford to live on one income, it should not matter which parent earns that income.

 

So basically, I guess that over the course of time more women have wanted to be able to work outside of the home and far fewer men have wanted to stay at home.

Or maybe its because men are more accepting toward career women while on the other hand women are a lot less accepting toward stay at home dads therefore there are only very few men wanting to stay home.

 

i was referring to other girls who dont want to further either their career as a cashier, waitress or gas attendant, get further education or learn to cook/drive. there is nothing wrong with having that kind of a job, it is an honest job.

No one says there is anything wrong with that. But at the same time no one has the obligation to accept them as a partner either.

 

i notice a lot of girls, pretty ones working those kind of careers. i regularly talk to my guy friends and they whine to me about not hooking up etc and i ask why didnt u go for that girl shes hot and they would tell me its because she doesnt have a job she doesnt have a car shes a loser. (in verbatim)

Women say that about men ALL THE TIME.

 

i grew up with my dad working in another country on assignment, my mom took up an office job and had a business. so i grew up w/ a nany. i wish my mom stayed and be a mother. i have a mindset that i dont want to be like that, have guilt in my heart for leaving my kid in a day care or some nanny who might, God forbid, abuse or hurt them (on purpose or accidentally).

Many parents think that they do a better job raising their kids than nannies. But in actuality they are often even more abusive toward their children.

 

I was raised by a nanny, too. But both of my parents always made sure that we spent quality time together whenever we could. I really dont feel like I missed out on anything as a child.

 

frankly i think that men thinking women should be this or that in their careers is totally overrated and judgmental.

 

i jsut think its more romantic if a guy accepts a girl whos head over heels about him despite the job situation. where do guys get these crazy high standards...seriously.

Its amusing how women are unhappy when men judge them by their career and financial status but they have no problem doing the same to men.

 

in the end when u have kids you want them to grow up being closely monitored and properly fed, grow up into good human beings. that is a lot of work ...you cant pay anyone to do that.

Kids who are raised by lowly educated women that you are speaking of are very unlikely to grow up into good human beings in the first place.

 

In fact I think successful career women like my mother are a lot more beneficial for their children because they have plenty of life experiences to teach them.

 

also how can u expect to get "good service" at night if your wife is all tired and stuff. after work she has to cook and clean and service you...and look pretty..keep her body fit..

So what you are saying is that if you are a stay at home mom, you have the obligation to provide sex whenever your husband wants it? Edited May 21, 2012 by musemaj11

[kaylan]

2 things.

 

Why are you always so abrasive towards other members on here?

1. Im honest and blunt. Im not going to sugarcoat or hold back my real opinion. I think a lot of things would be better in many peoples lives if so many of us didnt run around hand-holding everyone and lying about so many things.

 

Didn't say that was average. Said I was.

 

I merely said that I didn't realize it was top 5%... when so many people I know or have known are in that arena. That seemed strange.

2. In that case I feel your previous post lacked clarity. Its easy for someone to take your previous post as calling the top 5% average based on the language you used. Talking about your rich friends and then saying "guess im average" would lead some people to believe you were also throwing yourself into their income bracket and calling it average from your perspective. Especially considering people in the top 5% tend to hang out only with others of that bracket. And lets not forget you called their high income low, and you also only date rich men.

 

It would have been more clear if you clearly stated prior to mentioning your rich friends that "Im on the average income side but I do know some rich folks.

 

Meh, honest mistake on my part considering the language you used.

Edited May 21, 2012 by kaylan