People assuming too much

[irc333]

I've been talking to this single woman, divorced. Been getting to know each other, when she found out I was never married, she asked me "You must be used to being alone, since you've never been married and probably like it, and would find it diffucult to be with someone at THIS age"

 

I corrected her and said, "Actually, I prefer to have someone in my life right now"

 

As I get older, I desire it more as well, but not desperate about it either.

 

She said she's getting used to her independence since her divorce.

 

I am just wondering why people judge people as never being married so harshly, and then the person tries to CONVINCE Them they are wrong??

 

I think that the fact I've never been married is being judged, and those judging aren't giving US a change to defend ourselves.

[dasein]

This is a sign that you might not be so willing to drink their koolaid, be on they alert if they scrutinize in this area too much. Could be they are marriage hoppers, TONS of those out there today who want to make sure fast marriage is a possibility. Have tangled with a few myself. People who have -failed- at marriage really don't have a high horse to ride with respect to people who have not -failed- at marriage.

[irc333]

Well , it was her first and only marraige, so she isn't a marriage hopper.

 

 

This is a sign that you might not be so willing to drink their koolaid, be on they alert if they scrutinize in this area too much. Could be they are marriage hoppers, TONS of those out there today who want to make sure fast marriage is a possibility. Have tangled with a few myself. People who have -failed- at marriage really don't have a high horse to ride with respect to people who have not -failed- at marriage.

[dasein]

Well , it was her first and only marraige, so she isn't a marriage hopper.

 

OK, but that doesn't mean she isn't looking for a fast marriage or relationship. Just keep your eyes open with these, it's real common today.

[KathyM]

A person who has never been married and is well past the average age for marriage is usually a red flag for people, because it usually indicates either a fear of commitment, a too independent mindset that is not suitable for making a relationship work long term, or there are red flags that have caused the person to be turned down by others over a period of several years. Those are all legitimate red flags, and you shouldn't really blame someone for being leary of them.

[irc333]

Well, I think their MAIN concern is the guy is player, and probably spreading his seed around, that's the USUAL assumption.

 

I'm the complete opposite. I have NO fear of commitment, in fact I'd be more than happy to commit.

 

Though there may be a concern, I just hope they stick around to find out more about me, and just not assume me and not be associated with me based on their judgement.

 

 

A person who has never been married and is well past the average age for marriage is usually a red flag for people, because it usually indicates either a fear of commitment, a too independent mindset that is not suitable for making a relationship work long term, or there are red flags that have caused the person to be turned down by others over a period of several years. Those are all legitimate red flags, and you shouldn't really blame someone for being leary of them.

[dasein]

A person who has never been married and is well past the average age for marriage is usually a red flag for people, because it usually indicates either a fear of commitment, a too independent mindset that is not suitable for making a relationship work long term, or there are red flags that have caused the person to be turned down by others over a period of several years. Those are all legitimate red flags, and you shouldn't really blame someone for being leary of them.

 

A person who has been married and failed at it is a redder flag. 70-80% of second marriages fail, only 50% of first marriages do, so a divorced person is 20-30% more of a red flag than a person never married as a matter of statistical fact. Despite that, it seems that the censure usually goes one way, I rarely hear of never marrieds judging divorcees to the extent divorcees judge, I certainly don't.

 

"Commitmentphobe" is a totally overused term today, mostly by women. If more people really took time to get to know their partner, didn't rush into marriage, and took the time to really consider whether marriage is best for them, the domestic world would be a much better place IMO.

[irc333]

Very good points, you don't see people judging divorcee's

 

"Oh, you had a failed marriage, why's that, couldn't you work on it or seek counseling"

 

They might get up in arms about that.

 

Actually, you'd think people who have NEVER been married would be MORE desirable, by anyone really. lol

 

A person who has been married and failed at it is a redder flag. 70-80% of second marriages fail, only 50% of first marriages do, so a divorced person is 20-30% more of a red flag than a person never married as a matter of statistical fact. Despite that, it seems that the censure usually goes one way, I rarely hear of never marrieds judging divorcees to the extent divorcees judge, I certainly don't.

 

"Commitmentphobe" is a totally overused term today, mostly by women. If more people really took time to get to know their partner, didn't rush into marriage, and took the time to really consider whether marriage is best for them, the domestic world would be a much better place IMO.

[dasein]

Actually, you'd think people who have NEVER been married would be MORE desirable, by anyone really. lol

 

Yep, in modern divorce culture, it's completely backwards and bizarro. Have had so many divorced women try to start up with the early "commitment" testing. At one time in my life, I wanted marriage badly, but found out that "commitmentphobe" is usually code for, "not willing to eat my sh-t on a daily basis, and expecting any modicum of adult behavior and accountability from me at all."

[irc333]

Yes, divorce is so frequent now days, that it's become acceptable or desirable than the never been marrieds.

 

Remember back in the olden days, if a woman was divorced, it was the worst thing in the world?

 

 

 

 

Yep, in modern divorce culture, it's completely backwards and bizarro. Have had so many divorced women try to start up with the early "commitment" testing. At one time in my life, I wanted marriage badly, but found out that "commitmentphobe" is usually code for, "not willing to eat my sh-t on a daily basis, and expecting any modicum of adult behavior and accountability from me at all."

[KathyM]

I think both older never marrieds and divorcees are red flags. But there are situations where a divorcee would be less of a risk. The person may have had a spouse who cheated on them and they have every reason to leave the marriage. I wouldn't consider that a dealbreaker in establishing a relationship with a divorcee if someone had a spouse who cheated on them, so they left the marriage. Sometimes, it really is just one partner's fault for the demise of the marriage. In that case, the divorcee would be the safer bet than the never married.

[dasein]

Remember back in the olden days, if a woman was divorced, it was the worst thing in the world?

 

It still is considered undesirable in certain cultures/social circles. There were 0 divorces in both sides of my family before my parents' generation and only one divorcee, a triple d, in our entire extended family to the present day, consisting of maybe 30 couples. The one divorcee is a total mess and not a good bet at all compared to the singles in our family. I get flak from my mother for not marrying, but she would vastly prefer that to a marriage that ended in a divorce, so when I tell her of some of the behavior of women I've dated, who seemed like good candidates on the front end, she understands completely.

[irc333]

Suprisingly , even though my parents are from a diff generation, they do understand the nightmare stories they've heard from friends and family. Heck an ELDERLY couple in our neighborhood divorced recently, which is wierd.

 

But yeah, the understand perfectly, I think due to a family member's nightmarish relationship iwth his wife through out the years that led him to drinking, and FINALLY he wanted the divorce.

 

They are glad that I haven't gotten myself caught up in such a mess.

 

 

It still is considered undesirable in certain cultures/social circles. There were 0 divorces in both sides of my family before my parents' generation and only one divorcee, a triple d, in our entire extended family to the present day, consisting of maybe 30 couples. The one divorcee is a total mess and not a good bet at all compared to the singles in our family. I get flak from my mother for not marrying, but she would vastly prefer that to a marriage that ended in a divorce, so when I tell her of some of the behavior of women I've dated, who seemed like good candidates on the front end, she understands completely.

[Eddie Edirol]

I think both older never marrieds and divorcees are red flags. But there are situations where a divorcee would be less of a risk. The person may have had a spouse who cheated on them and they have every reason to leave the marriage. I wouldn't consider that a dealbreaker in establishing a relationship with a divorcee if someone had a spouse who cheated on them, so they left the marriage. Sometimes, it really is just one partner's fault for the demise of the marriage. In that case, the divorcee would be the safer bet than the never married.

 

I disagree. I've rarely seen a divorce/cheating case where only one party was at fault. A bigger red flag with divorcees, is that they might not admit the part they played in the deterioration of the marriage. If they learned from it, its one thing, but if its issues that they will continue to have in future realationships, its trouble.

[irc333]

Right, and I somehow think divorcees are projecting and sometimes somehow think they are even better than the never marrieds.

[firehawk_1]

its how women are. too judgemental then if you judge them, you get the 3rd degree.

[KathyM]

I disagree. I've rarely seen a divorce/cheating case where only one party was at fault. A bigger red flag with divorcees, is that they might not admit the part they played in the deterioration of the marriage. If they learned from it, its one thing, but if its issues that they will continue to have in future realationships, its trouble.

I have seen cheating cases where the BS did nothing wrong, but the WS was just a person lacking in character and had a sense of entitlement. Such cases do exist. But I would agree with you that, normally cheating is the result of a breakdown in the marriage that can be attributed to both parties. And normally, the mistakes made in the original marriage continue in subsequent marriages. Most divorcees are a big risk, and the likelihood of a second marriage lasting is pretty small. 75% of second marriages end in divorce, both because the problems that ended the first marriage are carried over into the second, and the extra issues to deal with take their toll on the second marriage (i.e., blending families, divided loyalties, strained finances, etc.) I won't deny that divorcees are a risk, but so are people who have never married, because there are usually questionable reasons for that as well (i.e., fear of commitment, too independent of a mentality that doesn't adjust well to relationships, negative attitude about marriage in the past, negative aspects about the person that have caused others to reject the person. There are cases where the person just did not find the right person to marry, but more often than not, it is one of the other reasons. Just sayin . . . Both are red flags, but I would agree with you that, chances are, a divorcee is not a better risk than a never married person. Also, there are cultures where marriage is not the norm, so in those cultures, it would not be a red flag if a person were never married.

[FitChick]

Some people prefer a never married to a divorcee who brings exes and kids into the picture. Less baggage to deal with.

 

I'm always asked "How come someone like you hasn't been snapped up?" It's a compliment with an edge of suspicion. In my youth, I always chose the wrong men (not the usual "Men are jerks" excuse that most women use). It wasn't until after 40 that I woke up (thanks to the Lefkoe Method ) and started attracting and being attracted to "good men." However, I am dealing with a diminished dating pool due to men my own age dating younger and older men dying off. I prefer men five to ten years younger since men die on average eight years to ten years before women do so it's a matter of practicality.

[grkBoy]

I think it's just the obsolete thinking that "you're supposed to get married by your late 20s/early 30s".

 

Look how you're deemed "single" until 35, and then "never married" after 35.

 

People unfortunately judge, and in the case of some women I can't blame them. So IRC333 might be the nice guy who struck out over and over with women and thus never found one willing to look past his skin to see who he really is. The problem is most women who met men that are "never married", they tend to be guys who simply want to continue adolescence as far as they can go.

 

So the marriage-minded woman who doesn't manage to find Mr Right by her 30s might meet some decent looking interesting guys, but find out they're more wanting to remain single forever. They see video games, drinking with the boys, and sports on TV as an ideal life. She'll move on because she might want the house, kids, husband, etc.

 

I personally think one should not judge someone because they didn't get enough "experience" by a certain age. I've heard the "I need a real man, not a boy" talk, but I still see those very women who say those words single and bitter that their choices are either the IRC333's of this world or the man-children who won't "grow up" as they would deem it.

 

I still consider myself lucky. I went though my 20s in the same state of being rejected and deemed the "nice guy". Got into my 30s with my choices in females being burned/screwed up women who are carrying tons of baggage. When I met the woman who is now my fiance, I always felt it was pure luck.

 

I know if I hadn't met her I'd probably still be single right now, finding happiness in my hobbies, travel, and career...while fielding the "why aren't you married?" or "why aren't you dating anyone?" questions. I'd still be replying "I thought the goal in life is to be happy."

[NeverDated]

I disagree. I've rarely seen a divorce/cheating case where only one party was at fault. A bigger red flag with divorcees, is that they might not admit the part they played in the deterioration of the marriage. If they learned from it, its one thing, but if its issues that they will continue to have in future realationships, its trouble.

Divorce is a two person game, but one person can cause more damage than the other. Significantly more. I once received the criticism, "It takes two people to make a divorce." Yup, one to f**k the marriage up and one to refuse to take the other's s**t anymore.

 

"Irreconcilable differences" is a cover used for a quickie divorce. For example, divorce for abuse is believed to be far more common than statistically cited based on divorce records, because women are afraid to air their dirty laundry in court. If you don't mention the abuse, you can get it over with quickly. So say you have "irreconcilable differences", negotiate the money, move on.

 

But, perhaps, there's a "divorce culture" I'm not familiar with personally. Every one of my female acquaintances who has divorced has done so either due to a spouse cheating during pregnancy/shortly after the baby was born, or physical abuse. I only know of one who divorced because she "just wasn't happy" - she was having a psychological melt-down at the time dealing with a major loss, and a few years later they got back together.

 

Sooo, I don't see divorce as a red flag by default. Sometimes one party genuinely exhausts all avenues to make it work and the other is too stubborn to put in the same effort, or they're given absolutely no choice in the matter.

[irc333]

Right , when someone suggets marriage counseling, it's usually laughed at by at least one party, because they simply don't want to be with that person anymore, regardless....they've already made up their mind about wanting out, and "Nooooo, I don't want to work on it!" is all they can think of.

 

Divorce is a two person game, but one person can cause more damage than the other. Significantly more. I once received the criticism, "It takes two people to make a divorce." Yup, one to f**k the marriage up and one to refuse to take the other's s**t anymore.

 

"Irreconcilable differences" is a cover used for a quickie divorce. For example, divorce for abuse is believed to be far more common than statistically cited based on divorce records, because women are afraid to air their dirty laundry in court. If you don't mention the abuse, you can get it over with quickly. So say you have "irreconcilable differences", negotiate the money, move on.

 

But, perhaps, there's a "divorce culture" I'm not familiar with personally. Every one of my female acquaintances who has divorced has done so either due to a spouse cheating during pregnancy/shortly after the baby was born, or physical abuse. I only know of one who divorced because she "just wasn't happy" - she was having a psychological melt-down at the time dealing with a major loss, and a few years later they got back together.

 

Sooo, I don't see divorce as a red flag by default. Sometimes one party genuinely exhausts all avenues to make it work and the other is too stubborn to put in the same effort, or they're given absolutely no choice in the matter.

 

 

People unfortunately judge, and in the case of some women I can't blame them. So IRC333 might be the nice guy who struck out over and over with women and thus never found one willing to look past his skin to see who he really is. The problem is most women who met men that are "never married", they tend to be guys who simply want to continue adolescence as far as they can go.

 

Yeah it's something like that...through out the course of my single life, I was wanting a bonafide girlfriend, but struck out in most cases because they chose the alpha male" or jerk instead. So some of us remained single during that time...then we get to a certain age where women ask me, "So why areyou still single?"

 

ANd I say, "Because women like you rejected me when I was younger, lol" and kind of half-joke about it.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

, I was wanting a bonafide girlfriend, but struck out in most cases because they chose the alpha male" or jerk instead. So some of us remained single during that time...then we get to a certain age where women ask me, "So why areyou still single?"

 

ANd I say, "Because women like you rejected me when I was younger, lol" and kind of half-joke about it.

 

Ouch! Don't say that Irc. That's going to put her on the automatic defensive and she is going to close right up. Even if it's sald half jokingly. But I understand why you feel frustrated on the issue. I don't think it's true that men that never been married don't want commitment. I've been working on not automatically judging people based on the limited info I have. I've had a number of situations where I was right but also a number where I was wrong.

[FrustratedStandards]

I think you are right. Personally, if a man hasn't been married by a certain age, I also assume there is a reason for it.

 

If you think about it, great people don't go unwanted. True that they can be single if they want, but after a certain age they will be snatched up. Those that are "left behind" (the unmarried, the singles after 40 let's say) are automatically deemed as useless because if they WERE something good, they wouldn't be alone.

 

I know this isn't always the case, but in my experiences and with the people I met who are older and never married, they do have problems. Either it's that their ego is too big, something else is too small, they are assh*les or they are simply very unattractive.

 

I have yet to meet an older man who is very decent who hasn't been married.

[irc333]

I think you are right. Personally, if a man hasn't been married by a certain age, I also assume there is a reason for it.

 

True, there's always a reason for something, my ideal match would be basically someone who is also around my age, never married, and has no kids.

 

I actually met a mid 40's woman, attractive and SHE'S never been married either, but has had boyfriends...(not sure if that qualifies for anything)

 

Thing is, I think she was so set in her ways, and even had to cut ties with guys that SHE Thoght that was too clingly, but was actually just the normal course of a guy being into her. She was selfish in her ways and had become accustomed to being signle for such a long time. She didn't like the fact her boyfriend (s) would stop by her house a little TOO frequently as the relationship got serious, one even proposed marriage to her, and she scampered off.

 

She had a lot oging for her, job security, (worked for her mom at an insurance company (small company) since she was in her mid-20's, her own home, the ideal life.....she lived in a rather dinky town, was kind of suprising, because usually people in SMALL towns get that marital itch.

 

Her sister is married, and she even kidn of admitted that her lack of being married was probably due to her selfishness and being able to commit fully and put up with sacrifices in spending more time with her boyfriend.

 

Sometimes I meet women like this, who seem to have a lot going for them, but I'm countered with THOSE issues they tend to have.

 

So you have 2 people wanting to date and have a relationship( like me ) but, the other is too independent to have one. (them)...at least at that age.

 

At least that seems to be the common jist of it.

 

Also, I think WOMEN at that age, have become SO unrealistic in what they're looking for, they've actually painted themselves into the "cat lady" corner...and have aged over the years and had still stuck with these unrealistic expectations over time, even until this very day.

 

So if I keep meeting women like them...well, that's the story doesn't help when the people I'm meeting are this way either, so it can't be entirely on me. lol

[FrustratedStandards]

She had a lot oging for her, job security, (worked for her mom at an insurance company (small company) since she was in her mid-20's, her own home, the ideal life.....she lived in a rather dinky town, was kind of suprising, because usually people in SMALL towns get that marital itch.

 

There's your answer.

 

What 20-something girl who has it all wants to dump it all in the toilet by getting married? No way, I wouldn't either.