trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Yeah, from past experience, there's a lot worse that could happen other than simply getting a no. She could lead me on, pretend that she's interested, let me fall in love with her, then reject me in a mocking manner, at which point I'll feel so heart broken that I can't work properly and lose my job. well right now we're focusing on the OP, and he hasn't gotten to the point where he is getting led on, pretend she's interested, letting him fall in love with her, etc etc... but necris, who cares what their reaction is? if they say no, you're probably never going to see them again, unless you hit on the postal lady that delivers your mail... you're putting too much pressure in yourself, get to know her first, worry about the "flirting" and asking her out later... break the ice, get her to let down her guard, and go from there... omit the flirting and say; "listen, I have to help out at the local shelter becaue we just got an entire box of puppies that someone dumped on the road side but I'd absolutely dig talking to you some more........" and go from there... (the puppy-shelter thing is totally subjective, it's just an idea, don't quote me literally)
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Alright, so let's assume for a second that I'm not full of sh*t...and we can try to tackle this "confidence" problem as it relates specifically to dating women... I have recently become a strong proponent that "confidence" (as generally defined in the dating world) is most effectively developed from prior experiences of success. Repeated failure does not breed confidence in success, but confidence in failure. So where do we go from here...? Simply put, develop true confidence in areas which society deems desirable to women. Some you will be able to control, while others may be more difficult or outright impossible (e.g., height). So be it, disregard those and focus on areas that you do have the control and means to improve. Increase your certainty of success (i.e., confidence) in those particular areas. You are now confident in "A." You also know that women like "A." Now go try again with the women knowing that you have something they want. Hopefully, you will experience success which will serve to increase your certainty of success in dating...however, if you're still failing, go back to the drawing board and find another area to improve in...or hell, improve in multiple areas at the same time! It's these small "victories" which increase your overall confidence as a person, which translates into "confidence" in dating... Bottom line #1: Become a person that women would want to date. Bottom line #2: Blind "confidence" = stupidity...
trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 dude, I feel like you just pulled out one of your battle plans from some tour you did in Iraq... except where they had used the words "IED" or "insurgents", you replaced it with the word "women"...
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 well right now we're focusing on the OP, and he hasn't gotten to the point where he is getting led on, pretend she's interested, letting him fall in love with her, etc etc... but necris, who cares what their reaction is? if they say no, you're probably never going to see them again, unless you hit on the postal lady that delivers your mail... you're putting too much pressure in yourself, get to know her first, worry about the "flirting" and asking her out later... break the ice, get her to let down her guard, and go from there... omit the flirting and say; "listen, I have to help out at the local shelter becaue we just got an entire box of puppies that someone dumped on the road side but I'd absolutely dig talking to you some more........" and go from there... (the puppy-shelter thing is totally subjective, it's just an idea, don't quote me literally) I actually typically don't flirt with women I know I will never see again since I know that would be entirely pointless, maybe trying to do a playful flirt but that's about it.
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 dude, I feel like you just pulled out one of your battle plans from some tour you did in Iraq... except where they had used the words "IED" or "insurgents", you replaced it with the word "women"... I didn't do Iraq...but if a systematic approach can work for military operations, I'm sure it can work for the crazy and irrational world of dating... It's just unfortunate that people are generally lazy and would rather rely on shortcuts to get women rather than become someone a woman actually wants...I've noticed that those kinds of relationships tend to be much stronger...
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I actually typically don't flirt with women I know I will never see again since I know that would be entirely pointless, maybe trying to do a playful flirt but that's about it. If hypothetically, 2 out of 3 women in your past gave you a number when you flirted with them, would you flirt with women you will never see again...?
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) If hypothetically, 2 out of 3 women in your past gave you a number when you flirted with them, would you flirt with women you will never see again...? 66.667% hmmm that's extremely high for me its been close to 0% (well there was this time a girl gave me a fake number lol, and then there was this one other woman that gave me her number and we went on a date but she was either insane or trying her best to ruin the date it was quite crazy). But if 2/3 of the women I flirted with gave me a number and assuming these aren't fake numbers its likely I'll see one of them again so its not like I'm actually talking to women I'll never see again. Edited May 15, 2012 by Necris
threebyfate Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I could argue semantics here, but it would serve no purpose to help OP, so I won't.Not semantics, a distinction of nuance. Is it really fear of failure that prevents confidence or the certainty of failure? Are we really afraid of rejection? Or are we afraid of the adverse reaction and possible humility we might face from that rejection? In my past, I was never "afraid" of failure...I was actually quite certain of failure...so I could approach with confidence that I'd get rejected...but I was afraid of the ridicule and reaction from a girl (e.g., laughing in my face, etc.)... To illustrate with an absolutely ridiculous example, let's say I'm afraid of spiders...and someone tells me about a cave with treasure...so I go into my first cave...there's no treasure, but there are spiders...I go into another cave, no treasure, plenty of spiders...go into enough caves, and I start to permanently associate caves not with treasure, but with spiders... So sure, I can keep going into caves and realize that spiders are actually quite friendly creatures, but why would I even bother going into a cave with the certainty that there won't be treasure...? I don't think I buy the whole "fear" causes insecurity which causes lack of confidence argument...the "collateral damage" of rejection is what we fear, not the rejection itself...Instead of looking for treasure, look for friendly spiders with the added bonus of finding treasure if you happen upon it. 1
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Instead of looking for treasure, look for friendly spiders with the added bonus of finding treasure if you happen upon it. And therein lies one of the keys to all of this...expectation management...
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 And therein lies one of the keys to all of this...expectation management... I should probably act like I did earlier with the whole chess thing and just stop caring, expect failure, do it anyway, get rejected and laugh if I'm able to do that I could be alot happier sure I'll never get a girlfriend or anything close to that but I wouldn't even care I would just be having fun.
threebyfate Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 And therein lies one of the keys to all of this...expectation management...Yup. Applicable in every way which includes the dating and relationship processes. Some guys want, want, want, where they're already invested prior to talking to her, whether investment pertains to emotional investment or investing their entire ego into the process where failure will make them crash. Forget the investment. Just do it without expectations. It happens, great. It doesn't, that's okay too without needing to take her down a notch for rejecting you which is what PUA guys do, since they've invested their egos into the process.
trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 stand down, marine... we're just gonna confuse the OP, lol...
trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I should probably act like I did earlier with the whole chess thing and just stop caring, expect failure, do it anyway, get rejected and laugh if I'm able to do that I could be alot happier sure I'll never get a girlfriend or anything close to that but I wouldn't even care I would just be having fun. the thing is you DO care... otherwise you wouldn't be here seeking advice...
threebyfate Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I should probably act like I did earlier with the whole chess thing and just stop caring, expect failure, do it anyway, get rejected and laugh if I'm able to do that I could be alot happier sure I'll never get a girlfriend or anything close to that but I wouldn't even care I would just be having fun.No, don't expect failure. Expect nothing and see what comes of it. 1
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 the thing is you DO care... otherwise you wouldn't be here seeking advice... That's the problem if only if I could stop caring about this. Women in general aren't interested in me so if only I could stop caring. @threebyfate Its not possible to expect nothing you will expect success or failure expecting nothing is like trying to hunt deer but expecting nothing to happen no failure no success that makes no sense.
threebyfate Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 @threebyfate Its not possible to expect nothing you will expect success or failure expecting nothing is like trying to hunt deer but expecting nothing to happen no failure no success that makes no sense.Haven't you ever just perceived, rather than expect an outcome? Analogy, imagine going to see a movie. Do you demand a specific outcome in the movie or do you sit and watch to see what happens?
dasein Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Confidence comes from rewards obtained over time in undertaking measured risk. This is true in all endeavors, not just dating. The key is "measured." Adding up small sucesses obtained at little peril to your self-esteem leads to base confidence. Start as others say with a social network. Once you are in the habit of getting out and talking to people regularly, talking to people who happen to be women you find attractive becomes less risky and more measured at the same time with greater prospects of reward. Accept risk from a position of strength. When you are strong, approaching women in a bookstore is fine. Before you have attained some positive feedback that leads to strength, though, start with church, clubs, charities, places where you feel welcome and more at home. Walking up to 100 women in strange places is a bad bet, too much risk, too little prospect of reward, so don't start there. Once you are strong enough not to care, even rejections will bring reward as you realize you are doing the screening equally, it isn't all them screening you out. Once a process becomes somewhat mechanical, you become in a position of risking little and gaining much reward. That's what you should shoot for, but no one starts there. Good luck. 1
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