Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I'm confused it seems like the most common dating advice for men is to get confidence which is also next to wait and one day they will come around, what I don't get is how do you get this confidence do you buy it:lmao:, and why do people say if you wait they will just come around when that's obviously false? My confidence is directly proportional to my skill level if I'm skilled at something my confidence goes up for example to use a basketball analogy I know I'm capable of making a "free throw" so when I go to make the shot I'm fairly confident I will score, but I have never in my life made a shot from across the entire basketball court so when I go to make a shot I have zero confidence that I will make it. When it comes to talking with women I know from experience they are usually quite distant, cold, unfriendly, and just with people in general I can't relate to them plus the last time a woman ever seemed to display some level of attraction towards me was way back when I was 13 and I'm not sure if that was attraction or just friendliness honestly I can't remember the last time I touched a woman (I'm a virgin so I'm not talking about sex just simple things like a handshake) so naturally my confidence is quite low. I can try to artificially inflate my confidence but that doesn't work and I've been told people can tell you aren't actually confident. So at the end of the day its an impossible cycle. Also then people say gain some more experience/social skill but how does that even work, it doens't sound logically possible. I mentioned I find it extremely difficult to relate to others especially women so I'm told learn to relate, but is that even possible how would you learn to relate to someone you don't relate with? This commercial explains it quite well:
udolipixie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Some people may say if you wait confidence will just come around because it wasn't false to them or according to their experiences so they apply it as a definitive truth or generalization rather than a conclusion from their experiences. From my experiences getting confidence is either related to skill/positive experiences, skill/positive experiences in general, or innate. I know several guys/gals whose confidence fluctuates as it's correlated tot heir skill level/experience. Some whose confidence is dependent about the sum of their skills and positive experiences. Some whose confidence come from their perception and belief in themselves. If your confidence is directly proportional to your skill level it's probably best suited to gain more positive experiences and better skills. How does gaining more experience/social skill not sound logically possible to you? Are you incapable of talking and socializing with others? Are you incapable of reading up on body language, facial experiences, and social etiquette? Are you incapable of joining public speaking groups or practicing solo? Do you have any ideas on why you find it extremely difficult to relate to others especially women? Do you know of any people you can relate to? Do you know of any groups geared to your interests that you can join?
somedude81 Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 My confidence is directly proportional to my skill level if I'm skilled at something my confidence goes up for example to use a basketball analogy I know I'm capable of making a "free throw" so when I go to make the shot I'm fairly confident I will score, but I have never in my life made a shot from across the entire basketball court so when I go to make a shot I have zero confidence that I will make it. It's the same way with women. But you know that already. Confidence comes from past success and knowing that you can do something. The only way to get confidence in regards to women is to start small goals then work yourself up to bigger goals as you accomplish them.
trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 if the confidence you are talking about is in regards to women and dating, let me put it in perspective for you... nobody has ever died from being rejected... period... secondly, what's the worst that can happen? I mean seriously, think about it for a second... the worst case scenario is you approach a girl and you walk away being in the same position you were before you approached the girl... without a date... so really it's a no lose situation, you're just thinking about it... forget the starting small taking baby steps, setting goals, etc etc etc, just go for broke... it's not about the confidence or lack there of, it's all about your attitude and outlook... nothing bad can happen... if she were to say no, chances are you're never gonna see her again anyways, so what does it matter? so stop thinking about it and just do...
carhill Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Since recently going through two life altering events, divorce and death of a parent, I'm finding a new and different kind of confidence stemming from the belief that it is possible to adapt and change to what life throws at one and that it will work out and that there is always another option and that the world isn't going to end if the first one is wrong or ineffective. My prior confidence had been based primarily in my quantifiable skillset and using it to adapt but those life-altering events threw stuff at me way outside of that skillset so I had to learn something new and different. MC helped but the work has come while being alone processing the events. It's a really great place to be.
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 if the confidence you are talking about is in regards to women and dating, let me put it in perspective for you... nobody has ever died from being rejected... period... secondly, what's the worst that can happen? I mean seriously, think about it for a second... the worst case scenario is you approach a girl and you walk away being in the same position you were before you approached the girl... without a date... so really it's a no lose situation, you're just thinking about it... forget the starting small taking baby steps, setting goals, etc etc etc, just go for broke... it's not about the confidence or lack there of, it's all about your attitude and outlook... nothing bad can happen... if she were to say no, chances are you're never gonna see her again anyways, so what does it matter? so stop thinking about it and just do... Problem is I have had a nice solid 100% failure rate, though there were times when I didn't even care so after I got rejected I felt completely okay and laughed it off.
trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 there you go, that's the spirit... you're doing better than the average, you're even able to laugh it off, and here I thought you said you had no confidence... find something that gives you a little boost... sometimes a new set of clothes seem to do the trick... you're on the right track anyways, and you don't lack confidence that's for sure...
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 Some people may say if you wait confidence will just come around because it wasn't false to them or according to their experiences so they apply it as a definitive truth or generalization rather than a conclusion from their experiences. From my experiences getting confidence is either related to skill/positive experiences, skill/positive experiences in general, or innate. I know several guys/gals whose confidence fluctuates as it's correlated tot heir skill level/experience. Some whose confidence is dependent about the sum of their skills and positive experiences. Some whose confidence come from their perception and belief in themselves. If your confidence is directly proportional to your skill level it's probably best suited to gain more positive experiences and better skills. How does gaining more experience/social skill not sound logically possible to you? Are you incapable of talking and socializing with others? Are you incapable of reading up on body language, facial experiences, and social etiquette? Are you incapable of joining public speaking groups or practicing solo? Do you have any ideas on why you find it extremely difficult to relate to others especially women? Do you know of any people you can relate to? Do you know of any groups geared to your interests that you can join? That's the circular part right there in order to gain more confidence you need to gain better experiences and more skill but in order to gain more skill you need skill. As for gaining skill yes I know how to talk to people and I do try to socialize with others but that level of skill isn't advanced enough. And reading up on body language yes I have done that and its not very helpful as it just gives one a mechanical understanding of how body language works besides I already know something about body language but that doesn't really help me I'm not autistic I know when someone is angry, sad, happy,etc. Though flirtateous body language I'll probably never understand but then again its not like I ever see it at least not directed towards me. There's just something I'm not seeing or getting here that I don't understand.
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) there you go, that's the spirit... you're doing better than the average, you're even able to laugh it off, and here I thought you said you had no confidence... find something that gives you a little boost... sometimes a new set of clothes seem to do the trick... you're on the right track anyways, and you don't lack confidence that's for sure... Those times I was able to laugh it off I wasn't completely serious just basically joking around, so I took it lightly. An example would be the time my friend won a Chess tournament and there was this girl sitting next to me that I thought was kinda cute and since I was feeling unusually happy that day I started to try to flirt with her she basically said ewww no I laughed didn't care and went away she then tried to flirt with my friend he basically brushed her off to the side and we both had a great laugh together. (I'll miss that guy we were pretty cool friends until we moved and never saw each other again) Edited May 15, 2012 by Necris
trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 we just made progress and then you went backwards... so let's try this without joking around... I'm telling you, once you get it into your mindset that the worst case scenario isn't even a worst case scenario, this whole thing will go a hell of a lot smoother... you didn't have the girl before you approach her, so you're really not losing much...
udolipixie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 That's the circular part right there in order to gain more confidence you need to gain better experiences and more skill but in order to gain more skill you need skill. As for gaining skill yes I know how to talk to people and I do try to socialize with others but that level of skill isn't advanced enough. And reading up on body language yes I have done that and its not very helpful as it just gives one a mechanical understanding of how body language works besides I already know something about body language but that doesn't really help me I'm not autistic I know when someone is angry, sad, happy,etc. Though flirtateous body language I'll probably never understand but then again its not like I ever see it at least not directed towards me. There's just something I'm not seeing or getting here that I don't understand. To me it's only circular if you have the notion that failure, learning, and practice doesn't exist. One generally gains better experiences and more skill by learning the skill, practicing the skill, and eventually having their successes outnumber their failures. It's like wanting to be a good artist and thinking you must have an innate ability rather than consider one needs to learn to draw, practice drawing, and improve their drawing till they gain the skills/experiences to be a good artist. Have you tried learning ways to advance your conversational skills such as public speaking solo practice or groups, speech therapy, and books on verbal communication? Have you tried learning ways to advance your social skill level such as social groups or etiquette, charisma, and relationship books? Did your reading up on body language give you the knowledge to have indications of when someone is defensive, interested, lying, scared, attracted, disinterested, and etc? There's many body language and facial expression books that go beyond mechanical understanding and the basics. Any ideas as to why flirtatious body language is something you'll probably never understand? You've never seen gals flirting not even in movies or tv shows?
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 we just made progress and then you went backwards... so let's try this without joking around... I'm telling you, once you get it into your mindset that the worst case scenario isn't even a worst case scenario, this whole thing will go a hell of a lot smoother... you didn't have the girl before you approach her, so you're really not losing much... Still not seeing how this is going to help. Sure its good to be able to deal with rejection alot easier but I'll still be just as unconfident like the situation I described with the girl that rejected me and I laughed it off I was actually quite confident that she will reject me my mind would have been blown if she turned out to actually like me.
trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 but how were you unconfident with the chess chick?? you thought she was cute, you were in a good mood so you started flirting with her... but you know, women are like rabid animals... "they can smell fear"... you walking into it with the mindset that if she actually liked you that you would've been blown away, they can sense that... why flirt right away?? start a basic conversation... takes about 10 seconds or less to find something to strike up a question to her... girls like it when guys pay attention to detail... I'm not saying go all metro on her and say; "oh that must be the Chanel Mineral White nail polish from the spring 2012 collection" but something subtle... maybe a piece of jewelry she's playing with??
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 why flirt right away?? Because all that PUA garbage (and the resulting pool of modern dating "advice") focuses on this instead of the development of basic conversational and social skills...people are so afraid of getting "friend-zoned" that they are afraid of talking to a girl like a normal human being... You gotta let a girl know right away that you want to get in her pants, right...?
trist Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Because all that PUA garbage (and the resulting pool of modern dating "advice") focuses on this instead of the development of basic conversational and social skills...people are so afraid of getting "friend-zoned" that they are afraid of talking to a girl like a normal human being... You gotta let a girl know right away that you want to get in her pants, right...? damn, i've been doing it all wrong??!! i always try and hide the fact that i'm just trying to get into their panties...
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 damn, i've been doing it all wrong??!! i always try and hide the fact that i'm just trying to get into their panties... Heh. Crawl walk run is all I'm saying. A common occurrence on LS is the guy who says that he tried flirting with a girl and she just blew him off. Lather, rinse, repeat. And you see these same guys defending how sociable they are...yet they never think to just start a simple conversation with a girl, like you suggested earlier. More often than not, that's all it takes.
threebyfate Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Let's spin the problem upside down. What prevents confidence? Insecurity. What causes insecurity? Fear of failure, rejection and looking stupid. So, time to attack your fear. How to attack your fear is to face it by engaging with more people. The more you engage with people, the easier it gets. The easier it gets, the more confidence you gain.
Parallel_Lines Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 This is coming from someone who also had bouts of low self-confidence throughout her whole life. How about stepping out of your comfort zone? Maybe make a list of something you wouldn't dare dream to do (I dunno.. roller coasters? make friends with the neighbors? volunteer at an old folks' home? tutor a kid? go rock-climbing?) and just one day, surprise yourself by doing one thing on that list. The next day, do another thing. It helps when you don't take yourself super seriously, make room for errors and realize that no one is out to get you. I know it's difficult to be vulnerable to rejection, especially when your brain tells you to avoid uncomfortable situations. But it does get better with time. The more new things you try, the more confidence you will gain. It doesn't matter whether that new experience was a failure or a success (but it helps if you put a more positive spin on things), as long as you made it happen then you know you have experienced some growth. PS. I agree with trist, girls like guys who pay attention to the small details.
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Let's spin the problem upside down. What prevents confidence? Insecurity. What causes insecurity? Fear of failure, rejection and looking stupid. So, time to attack your fear. How to attack your fear is to face it by engaging with more people. The more you engage with people, the easier it gets. The easier it gets, the more confidence you gain. I agree to a certain extent. In the dating realm, I absolutely agree with the second paragraph. Attack the fear head on just like any other fear. Then you'll realize that the fear is irrational. Now to tackle the whole "confidence" issue in very general terms. One possible definition of "confidence" is the certainty of a particular result. What prevents confidence? A lack of prior knowledge of that particular result. The more often a particular result occurs, the more certain you become that the result will subsequently occur. So is "insecurity" simply the confidence (or certainty) of an adverse result...?
threebyfate Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I agree to a certain extent. In the dating realm, I absolutely agree with the second paragraph. Attack the fear head on just like any other fear. Then you'll realize that the fear is irrational. Now to tackle the whole "confidence" issue in very general terms. One possible definition of "confidence" is the certainty of a particular result. What prevents confidence? A lack of prior knowledge of that particular result. The more often a particular result occurs, the more certain you become that the result will subsequently occur. So is "insecurity" simply the confidence (or certainty) of an adverse result...?Confidence infers positive results. Fear of failure can be combated by failing. In failing, you learn that it's not so scary, since it's no longer the great unknown. In picking yourself back up, this too builds resilience and subsequently confidence in yourself, as well as learning not to give a frack about looking silly.
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 but how were you unconfident with the chess chick?? you thought she was cute, you were in a good mood so you started flirting with her... but you know, women are like rabid animals... "they can smell fear"... you walking into it with the mindset that if she actually liked you that you would've been blown away, they can sense that... why flirt right away?? start a basic conversation... takes about 10 seconds or less to find something to strike up a question to her... girls like it when guys pay attention to detail... I'm not saying go all metro on her and say; "oh that must be the Chanel Mineral White nail polish from the spring 2012 collection" but something subtle... maybe a piece of jewelry she's playing with?? I don't know that was a very atypical situation for me I was just feeling unusually happy and spontaneous something I normally don't feel. Also no I wasn't afraid she was going to reject me I just knew she would and when she did I didn't care it was exactly as expected. Too bad I don't normally feel like that it would make things alot less stressful if I simply didn't care and knew I was going to fail perhaps I could even make it a game of sorts and be amused by the rejections. Typically this is what I do or at least try to do: 1. Find a woman I like (its not like she is going to find me ) 2. Observe and study her 3. Approach her and start small talk 4. While engaging in small talk try to observe her behavior. Does she sound interested? 5. If interested try to flirt (this is a shady area since I don't really understand flirting but whatever) 6. If she seems interested and you feel like you have nothing to lose ask her out.
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Confidence infers positive results. I could argue semantics here, but it would serve no purpose to help OP, so I won't. Fear of failure can be combated by failing. In failing, you learn that it's not so scary, since it's no longer the great unknown. In picking yourself back up, this too builds resilience and subsequently confidence in yourself, as well as learning not to give a frack about looking silly. Is it really fear of failure that prevents confidence or the certainty of failure? Are we really afraid of rejection? Or are we afraid of the adverse reaction and possible humility we might face from that rejection? In my past, I was never "afraid" of failure...I was actually quite certain of failure...so I could approach with confidence that I'd get rejected...but I was afraid of the ridicule and reaction from a girl (e.g., laughing in my face, etc.)... To illustrate with an absolutely ridiculous example, let's say I'm afraid of spiders...and someone tells me about a cave with treasure...so I go into my first cave...there's no treasure, but there are spiders...I go into another cave, no treasure, plenty of spiders...go into enough caves, and I start to permanently associate caves not with treasure, but with spiders... So sure, I can keep going into caves and realize that spiders are actually quite friendly creatures, but why would I even bother going into a cave with the certainty that there won't be treasure...? I don't think I buy the whole "fear" causes insecurity which causes lack of confidence argument...the "collateral damage" of rejection is what we fear, not the rejection itself...
USMCHokie Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I don't know that was a very atypical situation for me I was just feeling unusually happy and spontaneous something I normally don't feel. Also no I wasn't afraid she was going to reject me I just knew she would and when she did I didn't care it was exactly as expected. You fear is placed in her reaction. Your certainty is placed in the rejection. Too bad I don't normally feel like that it would make things alot less stressful if I simply didn't care and knew I was going to fail perhaps I could even make it a game of sorts and be amused by the rejections. I think you mean amused by their reactions...
MaxNoob Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I don't think I buy the whole "fear" causes insecurity which causes lack of confidence argument...the "collateral damage" of rejection is what we fear, not the rejection itself... Yeah, from past experience, there's a lot worse that could happen other than simply getting a no. She could lead me on, pretend that she's interested, let me fall in love with her, then reject me in a mocking manner, at which point I'll feel so heart broken that I can't work properly and lose my job.
Author Necris Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 You fear is placed in her reaction. Your certainty is placed in the rejection. I think you mean amused by their reactions... Amused by their reactions does make alot more sense, and afraid of reactions also makes more sense as well.
Recommended Posts