Question of Wife's Behavior

[2sunny]

My affair-fog paradigm (assuming that is all it was) was this: I can live without my wife. I can live without my AP. I won't be bothered living without my wife, but I don't want to live without my AP.

 

Tis just keeps standing out to me.

 

It's completely cruel to stay wih your wife a minute longer.

[Character Floss]

I do great with various types of conflicts...from work, to some interpersonal, especially to sticking up for others (how surprising). It's just the sense that it is wrong to divorce, unilaterally, if she wants to work on things/wants me to work on things, and there is even a chance I could become attracted to her again.

 

I'd like either to make some real progress here in MC, have the feelings of attachment I am sporadically feeling (for the first time in a couple of years) grow and become the norm, or see us end this MC and divorce. But like I said, while she still wants to, believes it is worth it, says, "There is no one I want to be with other than you," then the fact that I am not drawn to her/however you want to put it seems meaningless.

 

I disagree with "better do something, even if it's wrong," but respect your view.

[2sunny]

There's a lot of value in doing things differently - to find out IF it may work for you or NOT.

 

But you can't find out by "thinking about it" that's for sure.

 

If you do things differently and it doesn't work - there's the value - you find out what you WON'T continue doing in the future.

 

The things that work well - you KEEP DOING those things.

 

Are you even doing nice gestures for your wife at this point?

Lthings that build intimacy?

 

Dates?

Flowers?

Notes to her when you are feeling something?

 

What actions are you doing?

[Character Floss]

Where is her voice in this? At this point she has made it clear...if I treat her with kindness and love, get to know her, listen to her, spend the time being interested in her...then if she is not "the one" with whom I want to be...well...that is still what she would want.

 

The times my wife and I have wound up NC I get antsy for a couple of days and then am pretty fine...but it's never lasted more than a week.

 

The MC is the one advising do nothing other than seek to understand self and one another. The psychologist (IC) has made it clear she thinks I am being phony by staying in it, and in the long run hurting my wife as well, not matter how bad the short term hurt would be.

 

Found out a lot of her pain right now is shame that others know we are having marital problems...that if we were not separated, and this were being dealt with while still together, that stigma would be gone for her.

[Character Floss]

Backrubs, footrubs, cooking for her (things she especially enjoys), going to dinner...not sure if that's a date; we went to the movies but had our son with us too...it was important though to include him.

 

Notes, yes, oh, I check on her, listen to her (ask what she is dealing with, pay attention).

 

Monday for the first time I felt the impetus to send a simple "I love you" text but did not. Just as I do not trust my negative emotions fully, so I am not willing to trust a positive one till they are more prevalent. I am not about to say those words until I know I can live by them tomorrow, the day after and the days after that. I hadn't said those words for months and months before the affair...yet two years ago, she would have heard or seen them from me, and seen them in action, throughout each day.

 

The issue is less doing things that would lead to her feeling intimate with me, than what would build that in me toward her.

[2sunny]

I agree with your IC - you are being phony. Nothing authentic about it when you are making it appear that you're trying to make it work when you have no to little feelings for her.

 

And since she's too worried about how it looks to outsiders - she's worried about things backwards.

 

Who cares what people think? She should be addressing what YOU think - addressing that you feel nothing for her.

 

As long as she's focused on her image - she's missing any opportunity to get this moving.

 

Her ego is in the way. The train has left the station and she's not even focused on the fact that it left.

 

You really have nothing to work with here.

 

You can peel back that onion all you want - the core has been there all along - the M is empty and you're trying to make the emptiness look like its something.

[trippi1432]

CF - Most likely too, your wife is going to have to try and reconcile the fact that while you were going through the "motions" for possibly all of your marriage with her, you truthfully have never held deep, intimate feelings for her. From your postings here, beginning with the engagement, that's very evident.

[2sunny]

For me - I can't MAKE myself feel something when I honestly don't feel anything.

[Character Floss]

We talked last night about the possibility that "feelings" of attraction may not develop between us, or from me to her. This was the clarification email:

 

From what I heard from you, your thought is that my feelings do not make the difference on reunification or not. It's not that my feelings don't matter, but your commitment is to our marriage, and to its preservation, and while you hope my feelings change and that various forms of intimacy result, if they don't, they don't, and better to be reunited than not.

 

I think that’s a fairly accurate account. I want to affirm that your feelings do matter to me. I know that time brings change, and change takes time. I’m willing to work hard, learn patience, and learn more about you.

 

So that is it in a nutshell: her character mandates commitment to being married to me, pretty much as long as I am neither abusive nor emotionally or sexually unfaithful. In fact, she brought up a celibate marriage as a possibility. Just thought I'd share her perspective...

Edited May 31, 2012 by Character Floss
to remove HTML color tags

[Owl]

Well, from what I've read there, she's got the understanding that often the "fake it til you make it" process works.

 

And it does for many.

 

Her hopes are that with OW out of the picture, your interest and affection for her will return over time. It's not an unfounded hope. It happens...often.

 

But I'm not sure she understands who she's dealing with here.

 

I don't believe that YOU want nor have any desire for your feelings for her to return...in fact, I believe that you adamantly do not want them to do so...and you will provide yourself with whatever mental ju-jitsu technique you can find to avoid that from happening.

 

In your situation...I don't see the value of wasting more time on your marriage to her. Especially for her...the sooner she is free of you, the sooner she can grieve and eventually recover and move on.

 

You make it clear that your marriage is dead from your perspective...if that's truly how you feel...then don't coddle her any longer, and rip the band-aid off already.

 

Just my thoughts.

[2sunny]

We talked last night about the possibility that "feelings" of attraction may not develop between us, or from me to her. This was the clarification email:

 

From what I heard from you, your thought is that my feelings do not make the difference on reunification or not. It's not that my feelings don't matter, but your commitment is to our marriage, and to its preservation, and while you hope my feelings change and that various forms of intimacy result, if they don't, they don't, and better to be reunited than not.

 

I think that’s a fairly accurate account. I want to affirm that your feelings do matter to me. I know that time brings change, and change takes time. I’m willing to work hard, learn patience, and learn more about you.

 

So that is it in a nutshell: her character mandates commitment to being married to me, pretty much as long as I am neither abusive nor emotionally or sexually unfaithful. In fact, she brought up a celibate marriage as a possibility. Just thought I'd share her perspective...

 

What are you preserving? Preserving a broken marriage?

 

Change only happens when people INVOKE change. What are YOU changing?

 

If you don't DO constant CONTRARY action - NOTHING will change!

 

When YOU change - it automatically forces things to change all around you!

 

What are YOU changing? You've had all week - what have YOU changed this week? What have you changed TODAY?

[Character Floss]

My changes are to continue to learn how to be honest without being unnecessarily hurtful.

 

Monday of last week: Four hours with marriage counselor dealing with the elephant in the living room...my leftover attachment to my AP and lack thereof to my wife. I probably spent half of the time talking/answering questions on what the affair and the AP meant/mean to me...what was so attractive about her/the situation, did I love my wife, etc. As said once before, I am not the guy to have an affair and also claim I love my wife--but slipped. If I loved her or had loved her then, I never would have had the affair.

 

Wife and I had a very nice Tuesday watching Deadliest Catch. We almost cuddled. She offered to tweeze my ears...which is an intimate act (to me) with head in lap...and it was nice. Sadly I realized later that I had taken three hydrocodone for pain before heading over there...and I am the type that becomes much more affectionate and tender when I have that in my system.

 

Was this the real me? Or was it, "I love everybody?"

 

Wednesday my former AP stopped by my office to give me back a computer my wife and I had given her nine months earlier...now plagued with a trojan horse or virus...asking if there was any way I could rescue her songs and give it to someone else after fixing it. She assumed wife and I are together and probably happy, learned otherwise but did not realize we are in MT. We did talk, I called the marriage therapist about her coming by and our conversation and then I offered that I felt I needed to tell my wife about the visit at our next session. He agreed and that was Friday night.

 

Unfortunately for me this stirred up lots of emotions, and when she came in I was already in the, "Was that real attraction or the painkiller?" mode...

 

Friday night...rougher for my wife...rough for me. Six and half hours with marriage therapist before I left and they talked individually.

 

I don't want to tell her I am not attracted to her. Gawd that must hurt. I don't want to lie to her. We went back and forth on issues, which the therapist pointed out as being largely cultural rather than moral. To my wife, these are moral...what is proper, appropriate, what people would think if...

 

She was raised in a very conservative pentecostal family that went to a small country church for years here in the midwest/midsouth. I am from the east coast and was raised far differently. The counselor feels a lot of the differences are simply cultural and particularly with putting a moral value on the differences.

 

He also told her later that in his view she stopped investing in the marriage far earlier into it than I did, investing in me; and perhaps because I was doing personal things for her...not just stuff...she assumed I was happy when instead I was just trying to love her and maybe draw her out.

 

Now my AP also came up of course...and needed to...and what that mean, etc.

 

My wife absolutely detested her ex-husband, was repulsed by him sexually/physically, had no respect for him (her words: nope, he didn't deserve any) and they were together seventeen years. Her parents relate in ways that sicken my wife/anger her at her mother for how she treats her father. So I asked...is it possible that not because it represents your heart or desires, but because it's what you knew/know/lived for so long, that the attitudes and subtle behaviors that worked/she learned at home and in her marriage were brought into our marriage and used between us/toward me...and maybe that is why I feel so degraded. I think that is giving her the benefit of the doubt that these are things done unawares. My crap is very obvious. It's called adultery.

 

We went round these cultural issues quite a bit and I came to believe we are not going to bridge this gap, so when asked what my plans were before we broke, I told them both I don't see how we can fix this at this point, and I am through working on it/will seek to finalize our separation and end our marriage. I felt that after all this up/down, back/forth, peeling the scab off the cut again and again...it is the best and perhaps most kind thing I can do.

 

Wife did not break down but was not happy. The two of them worked on talking me out of it for about half an hour. Yes, the ex AP figured into things...would having seen her cause me to want to see her again...

 

I tenderly brought up the issue in general of not knowing how I could reconcile and give all to my wife if my mind was still bent toward my AP...this has been my plague...

 

So I agreed I would get the PC back to her Saturday, working or not, and not contact her and that I would contact the marriage counselor afterward. I did, AP and I talked and I met her FWB and it was fine to give her the (now working) PC and go.

 

Wife and I still have not communicated at all. Even while separated Tuesdays have been our "date day" to get together for Deadliest Catch. Neither of us contacted the other and while I am feeling very alone and...disattached...attached to nothing...free-fall...I am convinced that the best thing I can do is maintain NC with my wife and AP and get things wound down to a divorce. I even filled out all the paperwork online through our state's website.

 

My wife leaves for a business conference Sunday. I figure if we don't have any contact this week and I don't go to MC, let her have it as IC, then it's two weeks without contact by the time she gets back and HOPEFULLY she is more accepting of divorce or even finding, "Hey, not having CF in my life has its plus sides, too. It's been kind of nice." Then we hopefully will file.

 

Of course I could come to the point of realizing I love and want her, but I'm not counting on that one.

 

My wife and the MC are both...disappointed...to say the least. Both believe that as long as two people are teachable and do not want to hurt one another (basic good will) that by working to understand one another and express themselves accurately...they, ANY two people, can have a fulfilling and great marriage. I mean, this is how arranged marriages worked for 5000 years, so there is precedent (no sarcasm). The three of us see marriage as the ultimate cauldron or crucible in which character is shaped and developed and that this development is perhaps the primary purpose for marriage.

 

I believe that too...even in a theological context...but the two of them are committed to "the process" and learning what it is God is teaching no matter the pain. They see this as, "How deep is your commitment to God? If you (ME) really believe that God is good, then of course staying in this marriage regardless of how you feel will lead to great joy and fulfillment...after of course the hard work of the present/next few years."

 

I told the counselor (and he did not agree) that at the pace we are making, it's easy to see one to two years of this MC before wife and I would reconcile. It's been over six months now. That's a long separation, especially (and this sounds/is selfish) when there are no children involved and it's a mid-length (seven year) marriage. The MC looks at this as me failing to deal with the Seven Year Itch, but still I must love her (or I would not keep coming back to be beaten up Friday nights and see my wife beaten up).

 

So...I'm not going to make contact with her. I hope we contact through the marriage counselor after she is back from the left coast and that at that time we might negotiate the terms of our divorce.

[2sunny]

I see the waiting but not DOING anything to repair the damage done as a very big negative move on your part.

 

Simply - since you don't want her - tell her and divorce.

 

THAT is honesty.

 

And be honest with yourself. How much medicine do you take? Altered isnt sober. For be sobriety doesn't include a drink a pill or any other altering drugs.

 

What and how much do you take?

[Character Floss]

On the medicine score I take 60mgit cymbalta daily. These were basic vicodin that I finally took for lateral epicondylitis that had gotten out of control. This rx was issued years ago for severe headaches ans I have not asked for it to be renewed. Rhe lasr rime I refilles was about two years ago and I still have some of those 30 left. Doctor switched me to Amrix and I wwnt prn rather than daily about two years ago. Thirty will last a couple of years and I am not renewing it. Have had two drinks when out with a friend in paat rwo months (martinis). That is the medication rundown. Oh I take protonix a statin and atenelol for disrhyrhmia.

 

I will disagree. She Nd therapist are fighting divorce at every turn. Perhaps giving a couple weeks of NC will help the acclimatize her to the idea. I do not understand not loving her-with feelings-when she ia a good person. She ans therapist argue I do love her (based on care/actions) and simply need to change my definition and expectations of love. I know she loves me.

[2sunny]

On the medicine score I take 60mgit cymbalta daily. These were basic vicodin that I finally took for lateral epicondylitis that had gotten out of control. This rx was issued years ago for severe headaches ans I have not asked for it to be renewed. Rhe lasr rime I refilles was about two years ago and I still have some of those 30 left. Doctor switched me to Amrix and I wwnt prn rather than daily about two years ago. Thirty will last a couple of years and I am not renewing it. Have had two drinks when out with a friend in paat rwo months (martinis). That is the medication rundown. Oh I take protonix a statin and atenelol for disrhyrhmia.

 

I will disagree. She Nd therapist are fighting divorce at every turn. Perhaps giving a couple weeks of NC will help the acclimatize her to the idea. I do not understand not loving her-with feelings-when she ia a good person. She ans therapist argue I do love her (based on care/actions) and simply need to change my definition and expectations of love. I know she loves me.

 

Ok, so how many of those medicines "alter" your mind and clarity? How many of them alter your feelings?

 

You cannot possibly know what you may or may not feel if your mind isn't clear.

 

 

But - if you MAY love her - that is one thing - however IF you have seen your OW and are all giddy with butterflies and you don't have THOSE FEELINGS when you see your W - there IS something missing in the R with your W that is definitely present with the OW.

 

THAT is the part that you can't FORCE yourself to feel when it's just not there. THAT is the part that's not fair to your W if you don't feel that way about HER - and that is why it's important to be honest.

 

I have many men I love dearly - and am sweet, honest and have fun with them. Would I want to F them? NO!

 

The ONE I'm with is the one I want to DO just by laying my eyes on them! BIG DIFFERENCE than the friends I have that are like a brother to me.

 

Does that make sense?

[Character Floss]

2Sunny--

 

Yes, the difference makes sense to me. OW and I did not make love/have sex. I did lay in bed with her till she fell asleep, and it was nearly impossible the entire evening keeping our hands off of one another, but we both felt it was important.

 

I am 48 and was "thrilled" to find I could stay aroused for two hours (and not "have" to do anything with it). At 28, I would have just been thrilled I didn't feel I had to do anything with it .

 

I do get the difference and I hate it! If I could just change it, I already would have done so.

 

My wife is finally accepting that my not being attracted to her is not a function of something about her, and therefore something she can change. However, kind of in the vein of "Keeping the Love You Find," she and the marriage therapist see working through this as key, to work through putting aside feelings for the OW and acting not only lovingly, but also demonstrating attraction/desire/interest while working through the therapy side, and then we will be able to come back together and be fulfilled, etc. Failure to do this will only result in the high probability of repeating this pattern later.

 

Of the medications I take: I am probably a "lifer" on Cymbalta. It helped turn my life around. I still recall the first time I went through a day without thinking of/visualizing (not fantasizing...I'm talking flash, spontaneous images/thoughts) of killing myself and thought, "Wow, is this how most of the world lives? That's kind of weird..."

 

I think neither the statin nor atenelol are perception-altering. As for the Amrix (time release cyclobenzaprene/muscle relaxant), I am sure it does alter my perception and only take it in exteme situations. Now...any narcotic...or opiod-acting drug (Ultram)...will give me insomnia, restlessness and a very free-flowing, uninhibited and generally euphoric (compared to my base state) mind. Again, I rarely take because the insomnia is so detrimental. On the other hand I count as beautiful the nights I could not sleep and lay awake filled with a simple sense of thankfulness for my wife.

 

I saw my psychotherapist today and she reinforced that I will have to be the actor in this, plain and simple. She also tends to think my wife and I came together because situationally we needed one another--me to be accepted/rescued, her to be in the position of rescuer (and perhaps to have security because either I would not leave her because I needed her, or I would be forever grateful/in debt). I wonder if, as I no longer needed or wanted rescuing, that changed things and perhaps that is one reason she gave less to the marriage. Who knows...

 

I would not want to stay married to someone who did not want to F me! I don't understand how she does, but I think it comes back to right/wrong, serve God or serve self and the virtue of being tough, having "grit" and working things out. When it comes to a relationship, she is the type of (figuratively) would die with her fingertips bloody and raw to the bone from trying to scratch out of the problems rather than say "uncle."

[2sunny]

How can you think you "offer" her a healthy you - when you know you aren't your "best"?

 

She's willing to "accept you" as "your broken self"? The broken self that needs rescuing?

 

That seems terribly co dependent! Unhealthy comes to mind!

 

You need to focus on your healthy self.

 

Get off of any altering drugs - including alcohol (depressant). Gain clarity of what you DO want and DON'T want FOR YOURSELF!

 

Once you have a plan for yourself - stick to your plan.

 

YOUR happiness shouldn't be based on someone else.

 

Love shouldn't look this hard... Just my experience...

[2sunny]

If my man didn't want to jump my bones when he sees me - I would feel pathetic by staying. That's sad and terribly unappealing.

[Character Floss]

I am a much more healthy self. That is perhaps part of the problem. I am no longer dependent on her. I no longer fear my ex-wife. I am fine with confrontation...telling our marriage counselor, in session, when I think that what he says is BS, etc.

 

One can argue I am not healthy in that I don't value my subjective "happiness" and feelings of love highly enough that they are sufficient to make a decision.

 

Alcohol? If once every month or two I have a couple martinis with a friend, I'm not going to sweat it, unless I am going to make decisions afterward or try to communicate deeply.

 

As for Cymbalta...tried to titrate off, nightmares became so terrifying that I was afraid to go to sleep. It came to the point where I almost told wife to hide our firearms as I felt I could not face them anymore, but I did not want to alarm her, so I just got back on my dosage again. Yes, this titration was with doctor's oversight.

 

I've said it before...my wife and I never went through any period of jumping one another/had to have one another. Her normal bed clothes have been sweats, a shirt, hoodie and underwear that is way too tight (IMHO), meaning a guy cannot slip a hand inside even to squeeze a butt cheek, and the sweats are tied tightly...

 

She told me a month ago she did not realize those were problems/inhibitors and were part of the reason I stopped approaching her (it was awkward, the line too strong between cuddling and "I want sex" without that nice in-between that can lead to sleep or really good sex). She said, "Oh, I can sleep with no underwear on. It never occurred to me."

 

Mind you, she despised and was revolted by her husband of 13 years.

[2sunny]

I am a much more healthy self. That is perhaps part of the problem. I am no longer dependent on her. I no longer fear my ex-wife. I am fine with confrontation...telling our marriage counselor, in session, when I think that what he says is BS, etc.

 

One can argue I am not healthy in that I don't value my subjective "happiness" and feelings of love highly enough that they are sufficient to make a decision.

 

Alcohol? If once every month or two I have a couple martinis with a friend, I'm not going to sweat it, unless I am going to make decisions afterward or try to communicate deeply.

 

As for Cymbalta...tried to titrate off, nightmares became so terrifying that I was afraid to go to sleep. It came to the point where I almost told wife to hide our firearms as I felt I could not face them anymore, but I did not want to alarm her, so I just got back on my dosage again. Yes, this titration was with doctor's oversight.

 

I've said it before...my wife and I never went through any period of jumping one another/had to have one another. Her normal bed clothes have been sweats, a shirt, hoodie and underwear that is way too tight (IMHO), meaning a guy cannot slip a hand inside even to squeeze a butt cheek, and the sweats are tied tightly...

 

She told me a month ago she did not realize those were problems/inhibitors and were part of the reason I stopped approaching her (it was awkward, the line too strong between cuddling and "I want sex" without that nice in-between that can lead to sleep or really good sex). She said, "Oh, I can sleep with no underwear on. It never occurred to me."

 

Mind you, she despised and was revolted by her husband of 13 years.

 

Have you considered detox to get past your dependency on the meds you WANt to eliminate?

 

Has your wife ever considered the freedom of sleeping nude?

[Character Floss]

I'd like to be free of the Cymbalta...

 

That's the only one that matters.

 

The others are very simple organic. I have lots of heart disrhythmia and when it's bad I need the atenelol; my cholesterol is high even when my weight is down.

 

Yeah, I'd need to be locked up to be safe. OTOH, I couldn't recall NOT wanting to kill myself ever...from earliest childhood (tried to electrocute myself, to kill myself, when I was four)...until Cymbalta and it also helped my energy/focus. It is not an SSRI, but rather an SNRI.

 

However, the withdrawal...audio hallucinations, dysphoria, viciously terrifying dreams...I don't know if I could face it, and I'm not sure the alternative (being a lifer, but functioning) is so bad.

 

You are very keen on this. Were you on anti-depressants/had to get off?

[2sunny]

I'd like to be free of the Cymbalta...

 

That's the only one that matters.

 

The others are very simple organic. I have lots of heart disrhythmia and when it's bad I need the atenelol; my cholesterol is high even when my weight is down.

 

Yeah, I'd need to be locked up to be safe. OTOH, I couldn't recall NOT wanting to kill myself ever...from earliest childhood (tried to electrocute myself, to kill myself, when I was four)...until Cymbalta and it also helped my energy/focus. It is not an SSRI, but rather an SNRI.

 

However, the withdrawal...audio hallucinations, dysphoria, viciously terrifying dreams...I don't know if I could face it, and I'm not sure the alternative (being a lifer, but functioning) is so bad.

 

You are very keen on this. Were you on anti-depressants/had to get off?

 

Nope. But I used to be a big drinker to cope with my depression -and to avoid "feeling". Long though battle - but this freedom from altering is amazing! I wouldn't have my clarity with the coverup. I'd only have avoidance of addressing THAT pain. I wouldn't know the REAL me.

 

The hydrocodone is an opiate. How much and often do you take that?

 

At withdrawals could be worked through under supervision - they could sedate you to get past the worst part (the dreams/nightmares stage).

 

IF you are using them to cope with pain - its best to DEAL with THAt pain and then get past the pain that triggers the using (coverup of the source -pain).

 

No pain = no reason to cover up...

 

Best to ask a professional though to help if you want to eliminate the ones that alter the mind.

[Character Floss]

OK...hydrodcone...it's the basic hydrocodone APAP 7.5 325 I think...which is generic for vicodin, hydrocodone 7.5 with tylenol (so we can really anger our livers!).

 

The dose standard is "1 to 2 pills every four hours for pain."

 

If I am in enough pain to take it, it is usually two the first time, and then, most often, that is it; to break an acute cycle.

 

That night I did the unusual; I took three. I did not know I was going to see my wife/was not related to that. Physically I am 6'2", 250lbs and while not a body builder, very muscular...the guy that people who don't understand these things think weighs 215 or so. I know I should weight about 220, but with my build that is the lightest (mentioned for dosing issues by mass).

 

As for how often...I can go months without taking any, and then perhaps have a period of three or four days dealing with a knee injury where I do. Now I really avoid it/rely on ibuprofen if anything because I hate/can't afford the insomnia. The same thing goes with the muscle relaxant (amrix): I avoid it because it slows me down at work.

 

The scrip for amrix was one each day. I probably use it once every two to four months if I have a really bad muscular headache.

 

I haven't taken either of them for emotional pain that I can recall.

 

Tramadol (ultram) is what I meant when I referred to as opiate-receptor specific; tramadol is not an opiate, but for some reason it affects the opiate receptors. Helps with a horrible headache but keeps me up; not worth it.

 

I COULD develop a problem with this stuff. My ex-wife used to get her stuff from India...don't know how...and enjoyed staying up on the computer drinking a few 7&7s while taking either hydrocodone or ambien, but staying up. This was post-divorce and I think she would say she was not ENJOYING it, just doing it.

 

As said a while ago, when I realized I wanted to have a drink because things hurt, I gave the drink to my co-worker to take home and enjoy as they entertain a lot. I am out of amrix, see no reason to refill/renew. Will not try to renew the others.

 

Cymbalta...doesn't alter my mood/perception but helps keep me safe (from myself). Heck, could I really get locked up and sedated to get off of it? Wow...a vacation!

[2sunny]

For pain - I only take Tylenol - YOU could potentially take 3 Motrin as a muscle relaxer on occasions when needed. Wouldn't have side affects you describe.

 

I also have done acupuncture to for relief and to get unblocked. That works!

 

When my pain is there - it tells me "something is off"! And I take steps to fix what my issue is... It's usually emotionally triggered... Our EMOTIONS affect our physical body.

 

When im not speak my truth and/or " having my voice be heard" - I tend to get chest congestion or a scratchy voice.

 

When I'm not moving forward - I tend to have leg troubles. When I'm not grounded - my feet hurt!

 

Get the idea?

[Character Floss]

For me it was 800mb ibuprofen...I knew the dangers of tylenol to the liver, but did not realize ibuprofen can fry your kidneys!

 

So on one test I show having kidney disease...nice..

 

I find interesting what you say about how your body reacts specifically to various issues to "message" you and you can put them together. I would like to try accupuncture. Years ago I was one of the guinea pigs in a doctoral candidate's study of pain blocking via hypnosis. The "pain" was having my arms submerged in salted ice water, about 28 degrees (arms were fastened to a pivoting board so it was not voluntary).

 

Using hypnosis I had no pain, sunk in up to my shoulders and relaxed. Of course the extra neat benefit (within moderation) is how cold...maybe not THAT cold...is great to reduce swelling, etc.