irc333 Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 So, you turned a nice guy, into a player (just kidding, lol). It's really him, but I had a conversation with a friend that such guys, once they GEt a girlfriend....that they better not mess this one up. I would think, if I saw a hot woman on the street...I wouldn't be thinking 'Hm, think I could snag her, since I was able to snag my current g/f??" The answer that would probably be "No, not at all, you just lucked out in FINALLY getting a woman that apprecaites a nice guy, because if I screw this up...I'll be alone for another 10 years or so or the rest of my life!" LOL. Basically, I figured such a man would be APPRECIATIVE with a woman that actually had full interest in him. My experience with dating nice guys has been poor. All my life, I wanted to date a "nice guy". You know, someone that is sweet and sensitive and romantic and does nice things for me. Jerks never had any appeal, yet they were all I seemed to meet. My ex describes himself as a stereotypical nice guy. He didn't do well with women and in fact he only had one sexual relationship before me (he initially lied and said that it was more). I thought all my dreams came true when I met him. I was even willing to forgo the lack of physical chemistry that I felt. At first, he was great. He complained how all girls wanted macho men and how he was really worried to open up to me because he was acting to be more mucho than he really is to impress me (I didn't even notice). To build up his self esteem, I complimented him on everything, from looks to personality. And boy, was his self-esteem built. But then, when he comfortably had me in the bag...he started wondering, if he managed to get me, can he do better? Can he perhaps find a super-hottie? Since we lived together and were together 24/7, he shared those thoughts. He shared how he would walk down the street and see a hot girl and wonder if she would date him. Even though he is far from model himself, I never to this day said anything negative about his appearance to him. But boy, did he criticise mine. He was picking on little things, how he wanted me to wear lingerie to bed every evening (he on the other hand had 1 same pair of flannel pyjamas that he wore every night), just tons of stuff that I already shared on here. At parties, he would over-flirt with other women (only hot ones mind you, he never flirted with fat ones). During NYE before the break up, he pulled some random girl on his lap in front of me. I walked out in disgust. etc etc The point is, most guys are nice because they have no options - they use it as manipulation ploy to get people., but as soon as they get some leverage, they turn meaner than the meanest jerk. In the end, the worst jerks that I dated didn't criticise me and my appearance to this extent ever. Would I ever date a guy that calls himself nice, is insecure and was repeatedly rejected by women in the past again? NO, HELL NO.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Yes D'A, I questioned my own sanity on the nice guy ex. He bought my mum flowers the first time he met her. All my friends, everyone was going on about how nice he was. But in private, it was a different story. He picked on my looks and behavior; and when I questioned him on why; his reply was always "I am just being honest. Didn't you say honesty is important to you?" So yeah, I would think "Perhaps he is right, if he is thinking those things, I am better off knowing. He is an honest guy, isn't that lovely?" :sick: While I acknowledge that your relationship was pretty complicated and dysfunctional, you can't be too shocked or hurt by the things he said to you if you told him you valued honesty in your relationship. If you value honesty, you value both positive and negative feedback.
LittlePrince Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 While I acknowledge that your relationship was pretty complicated and dysfunctional, you can't be too shocked or hurt by the things he said to you if you told him you valued honesty in your relationship. If you value honesty, you value both positive and negative feedback. He was using that as an excuse to belittle her.
d'Arthez Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 While I acknowledge that your relationship was pretty complicated and dysfunctional, you can't be too shocked or hurt by the things he said to you if you told him you valued honesty in your relationship. If you value honesty, you value both positive and negative feedback. That is nonsense. There is a difference between honesty and deliberately trying to make a person feel like cr*p. ES's ex belongs to the latter category.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 The point is, most guys are nice because they have no options - they use it as manipulation ploy to get people., but as soon as they get some leverage, they turn meaner than the meanest jerk. In the end, the worst jerks that I dated didn't criticise me and my appearance to this extent ever. Please don't use the behavior of that guy and your experience as your barometer for "nice" or a measure for most guys. It really sounds to me that he was / is tremendously immature and was behaving in your relationship like a teenager might. I hope you can take guys as individuals. Some people just really are … nice ones. Would I ever date a guy that calls himself nice, is insecure and was repeatedly rejected by women in the past again? NO, HELL NO. I don't completely disagree with you here. A LOT of really bitter guys are around here, wallowing-in-self-pity, blaming others for their woes, and oozing with thwarted entitlement labeling themselves as "nice guys." I think they are the antithesis of nice. I certainly would not advise anyone to go out with them just to "give them a chance." It would probably be a pretty miserable experience.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 While I acknowledge that your relationship was pretty complicated and dysfunctional, you can't be too shocked or hurt by the things he said to you if you told him you valued honesty in your relationship. If you value honesty, you value both positive and negative feedback. Picking a person apart and dwelling upon their flaws does not fall into the category of "feedback" of any kind.
LittlePrince Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Might have did it to turn the tables on the privileged sex. It had nothing to do with his previous dating history. Men with different track records do the same thing to relieve built up trauma and tension.
irc333 Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I don't completely disagree with you here. A LOT of really bitter guys are around here, wallowing-in-self-pity, blaming others for their woes, and oozing with thwarted entitlement labeling themselves as "nice guys." I think they are the antithesis of nice. I certainly would not advise anyone to go out with them just to "give them a chance." It would probably be a pretty miserable experience. Hm, what if I was asked by a woman about my experiences with women lately. And I say something like "Most women I meet seem to be shallow/superfiical, concerned more with outward appearances, and thus my difficulties." I'm sure I gave her an honest answer, only because she asked. But my experiences aren't UNsoliciated (out of the blue)
fortyninethousand322 Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 The point is, most guys are nice because they have no options - they use it as manipulation ploy to get people., but as soon as they get some leverage, they turn meaner than the meanest jerk. In the end, the worst jerks that I dated didn't criticise me and my appearance to this extent ever. Would I ever date a guy that calls himself nice, is insecure and was repeatedly rejected by women in the past again? NO, HELL NO. Yeah I actually agree with a lot of this. A lot of times people who are too lazy (or perhaps physically unable for some reason) to fix their own lives up start to blame it on external factors. Like "I'm too nice" or "too short" or "too poor", etc. Not exactly the types who should be focusing on dating. And if a guy is too scared or insecure to take charge and take initiative in dating or relationships he's really not mature enough to be dating. That goes for anyone, but the "nice" perpetually dateless types tend to fit that mold fairly often. 1
Author verhrzn Posted June 1, 2012 Author Posted June 1, 2012 Holy cow, Eternal Sunshine, I had the EXACT same experience, which is what prompted this thread. I also want to reiterate that I'm trying to draw a distinction between a nice guy and a Nice Guy.
LittlePrince Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Yeah I actually agree with a lot of this. A lot of times people who are too lazy (or perhaps physically unable for some reason) to fix their own lives up start to blame it on external factors. Like "I'm too nice" or "too short" or "too poor", etc. Not exactly the types who should be focusing on dating. And if a guy is too scared or insecure to take charge and take initiative in dating or relationships he's really not mature enough to be dating. That goes for anyone, but the "nice" perpetually dateless types tend to fit that mold fairly often. I find it funny how victim blame is okay in certain circumstances but not others.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I find it funny how victim blame is okay in certain circumstances but not others. There is a big difference between blaming a victim and expecting people to be accountable for themselves. 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Hm, what if I was asked by a woman about my experiences with women lately. And I say something like "Most women I meet seem to be shallow/superfiical, concerned more with outward appearances, and thus my difficulties." Guys and girls have equal opportunities to be jerks. I would take an honest look at myself, if I were you, though. You might be meeting superficial girls, who certainly exist in droves. Or, you might be experiencing rejection and conveniently putting it down to the women in question having a character flaw.
LittlePrince Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 There is a big difference between blaming a victim and expecting people to be accountable for themselves. Okay so all victims should be held accountable....
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 V - a good friend of mine had THE EXACT same experience. In fact, she is the only person who met him that didn't like him.
Author verhrzn Posted June 1, 2012 Author Posted June 1, 2012 Guys and girls have equal opportunities to be jerks. I would take an honest look at myself, if I were you, though. You might be meeting superficial girls, who certainly exist in droves. Or, you might be experiencing rejection and conveniently putting it down to the women in question having a character flaw. That's actually something I'm currently trying to shove through my brain: the idea of not blaming myself, but also not blaming other people. I've noticed that when it comes to rejection, there are two tendencies: blame yourself and say there's something wrong with you (which is my default mode), or blame the other person and say there's something wrong with them. You see this all the time, on these boards, in magazine articles: "Oh, well, if they don't want you, it's their loss." "They rejected you because they're screwed up." I've decided lately that this is not actually not a helpful way to look at dating. It feels helpful, to point at the person rejecting you and say it's because they are screwed up in some way. But it's really just a different side of the same coin as blaming yourself. Yes, the person rejecting you might have issues. They might be shallow, or manipulative, or flawed in some fundamental way. But aren't we all? I have flaws, they have flaws. I have issues, they have issues. Maybe rejection isn't about I'm screwed up, or they're screwed up, but just that... rejection happens. People, for one reason or another, decide against dating you. In that moment, on that day, their baggage doesn't go with yours. It doesn't make you bad, it doesn't make them bad, it's just life. 2
LittlePrince Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 That's actually something I'm currently trying to shove through my brain: the idea of not blaming myself, but also not blaming other people. I've noticed that when it comes to rejection, there are two tendencies: blame yourself and say there's something wrong with you (which is my default mode), or blame the other person and say there's something wrong with them. You see this all the time, on these boards, in magazine articles: "Oh, well, if they don't want you, it's their loss." "They rejected you because they're screwed up." I've decided lately that this is not actually not a helpful way to look at dating. It feels helpful, to point at the person rejecting you and say it's because they are screwed up in some way. But it's really just a different side of the same coin as blaming yourself. Yes, the person rejecting you might have issues. They might be shallow, or manipulative, or flawed in some fundamental way. But aren't we all? I have flaws, they have flaws. I have issues, they have issues. Maybe rejection isn't about I'm screwed up, or they're screwed up, but just that... rejection happens. People, for one reason or another, decide against dating you. In that moment, on that day, their baggage doesn't go with yours. It doesn't make you bad, it doesn't make them bad, it's just life. or biology.
d'Arthez Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 But aren't we all? I have flaws, they have flaws. I have issues, they have issues. Maybe rejection isn't about I'm screwed up, or they're screwed up, but just that... rejection happens. There is a difference between rejecting a healthy person with whom you don't share many interests, and a clingy and deeply flawed person.
LittlePrince Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 There is a difference between rejecting a healthy person' date=' with whom you don't share many interests, and a clingy and deeply flawed person.[/quote'] There is a difference between the sinner and the saint....they are both religious nut balls.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Okay so all victims should be held accountable.... Why do you say that? I guess the difference between being accountable for oneself and what one is responsible for, and being a victim at the hands of another person / people is too complex for you to grasp? I'm sorry … that's kind of sad.
LittlePrince Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Why do you say that? I guess the difference between being accountable for oneself and what one is responsible for, and being a victim at the hands of another person / people is too complex for you to grasp? I'm sorry … that's kind of sad. So how long does the skirt have to be so I am not just asking for it?
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 That's actually something I'm currently trying to shove through my brain: the idea of not blaming myself, but also not blaming other people. I've noticed that when it comes to rejection, there are two tendencies: blame yourself and say there's something wrong with you (which is my default mode), or blame the other person and say there's something wrong with them. You see this all the time, on these boards, in magazine articles: "Oh, well, if they don't want you, it's their loss." "They rejected you because they're screwed up." I've decided lately that this is not actually not a helpful way to look at dating. It feels helpful, to point at the person rejecting you and say it's because they are screwed up in some way. But it's really just a different side of the same coin as blaming yourself. You are SO right. The "blame game" rarely turns out well in the long run. Though "it's their loss" is acceptable, in my opinion. I don't see that as assigning blame anywhere.
Author verhrzn Posted June 1, 2012 Author Posted June 1, 2012 or biology. ... That makes no sense. There is a difference between rejecting a healthy person with whom you don't share many interests' date=' and a clingy and deeply flawed person.[/quote'] I'm just saying that maybe rejection shouldn't be a matter of blame. It shouldn't be some sort of reflection of the intrinsic value of a person. Yeah, maybe the person rejected you cause they suck. But maybe they rejected you, just because. I keep going back to my ex-friend. I rejected him because I felt too insecure about his feelings, but from the outside, I bet it looked like I rejected him because he wasn't good enough. Rejection and the reasons behind it, and the psychology and hidden meanings, are just too vast it seems to really gleam a lot of meaning from it. I think it'd just be a good idea to start seeing rejection as what it is, and stop assigning value to it. 1
d'Arthez Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I keep going back to my ex-friend. I rejected him because I felt too insecure about his feelings, but from the outside, I bet it looked like I rejected him because he wasn't good enough. Rejection and the reasons behind it, and the psychology and hidden meanings, are just too vast it seems to really gleam a lot of meaning from it. I think it'd just be a good idea to start seeing rejection as what it is, and stop assigning value to it. Agreed . Being rejected does not make one less of a human being. It sucks, but it does not change who you are.
LittlePrince Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 ... That makes no sense. According to science we fall out of love due to biology particularly the neurochemistry of the brain.
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