Ruby Slippers Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 OK, I've been dating a bit lately, from guys barely getting by to guys with more than enough money. I'll be totally honest - I like for the guy to pay. I don't care if it's a $20 date, but I like it when he pays. Every single guy I've dated before did not want to let me pay, and that's what I'm used to. But I keep offering to pay, or split the bill, and they always so no. Some of them seem to get almost offended when I offer - especially the guys with money. What is the etiquette here? Offer and risk the offended reaction - or just let him pay?
123321 Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 What is the etiquette here? Offer and risk the offended reaction - or just let him pay? If that's the way you want to do it, say so up front, and then ask for separate checks from the get-go. Playing accountant at the table after the meal is sort of odd.
TaraMaiden Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 It depends how you offer.... If they offer or suggest the evening out, it's a relatively fair assumption to make that it's going to be their treat. (As opposed to, "what shall we do this evening?" and coming to a mutual agreement about events....) But I always used to ask, at an appropriate moment. "would you permit me to contribute....?"
lospantalonsfancie Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Thank you captain obvious. Of course you like it when he pays. He also likes it if you put out on the first date. Everyone likes things that are to their advantage, financially or otherwise. The question isn't whether you like it, but its whether its a fair thing to expect. How would you like it if a guy expected you to put out on the first date? To answer your question: you should always offer to pay. No guy will get offended, and if they do then its just pretend. You should not back down from the offer if you have any serious doubts that you want to see the guy again. In other words, only take the poor guy's money if you seriously intend to date him further. OK, I've been dating a bit lately, from guys barely getting by to guys with more than enough money. I'll be totally honest - I like for the guy to pay. I don't care if it's a $20 date, but I like it when he pays. Every single guy I've dated before did not want to let me pay, and that's what I'm used to. But I keep offering to pay, or split the bill, and they always so no. Some of them seem to get almost offended when I offer - especially the guys with money. What is the etiquette here? Offer and risk the offended reaction - or just let him pay?
kaylan Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 It all depends on your demographic. I say its polite to offer but dont insist once he insists on paying. Im thrilled when a chick offers to pay even if I dont want her to. It just seems super considerate. Im 25 and date progressive gals usually, so given my demographic, the guy isnt always expected to pay and the girls at least offer. Guys in my circle like that.
kiss_andmakeup Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I think at least offering to pay, even if your offer is declined, makes a good impression and shows that you're not just after a free meal. I always offer to pay my half - and with full intention to follow through, not the phony-wallet-grab move. I've never had a guy offended that I offered...at least not my to my knowledge...they've declined, but have often expressed how refreshing it is to actually have a woman offer! ;] 3
Author Ruby Slippers Posted May 11, 2012 Author Posted May 11, 2012 It depends how you offer.... If they offer or suggest the evening out, it's a relatively fair assumption to make that it's going to be their treat. (As opposed to, "what shall we do this evening?" and coming to a mutual agreement about events....) OK, that makes sense. Some of them invite me to places more expensive than I normally go, and might encourage us to order drinks, dessert, and things that run up the bill. I could afford the tab, but it would take a very big bite out of my fun budget to do so! Doesn't seem the case for them. If I pick the place, I always pick an affordable place. One thing I do hear a good bit of is complaints from guys with money about gold diggers or women trying to "take advantage" of them. I am so obviously not a gold digger, but I do sometimes feel that they are trying to test me somehow.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted May 11, 2012 Author Posted May 11, 2012 Oh, but one other factor is that I NEVER ask the guy out. I'm from the South and old school with my dating style. I find that guys I'm compatible with prefer the dynamic of being the initiator, too. So in the early stage, the guy ALWAYS asks me out for any date - in our preferred version of the mating dance. I think I'm just going to keep offering. I would guess that at a certain point, or after a certain number of dates with one guy, he would finally let me pick up the check.
FitChick Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Every single guy I've dated before did not want to let me pay, and that's what I'm used to. Same here. One man asked, "What? You think I can't afford it?"
udolipixie Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 It's probably best suited if you let the guys with enough money pay as that's the way you prefer it and with the guys barely getting offer to pay. My etiquette is that whoever asks pays though as I'm a heterosexual gal that would likely be unfavorable to me as it seems most guys think paying something for a pay means paying for sex with her body thus I pay my half no matter if he insists or is offended.
musemaj11 Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Dont offer if you dont intend to pay in the first place. It offends me a lot when a woman offers to pay because I know she doesnt genuinely want to pay. Just sit there instead of making me feel like you are trying to fool me. Also I dont understand men who enjoy having women pretend wanting to pay for their share.
kaylan Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 %I dont like a chick to pretend. If its a false offer and I find out about it I wont like it very much. Being entitled is already bad enough...but to add being disingenuous on top of that? She can find another dude if thats the case. 1
musemaj11 Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Personally though I always pay on dates because I know 99% of women expect me to pay and I dont want to ruin my chances of having sex with them. Paying is my way to feel less guilty treating women as mere sex objects because in my mind they too are treating me as money object. So its fair. On the other hand though, when a woman is generous to me and respect me as a human being and not a money object, I too in turn respect her the same way.
darkmoon Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 pay for each other, better than a businesslike pay for yourselves, but if a man insists on paying, okay, i once saw a man's best attentions to me fade when i bought him a drink, like i was more liberated > more available
musemaj11 Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I give a woman two dates to show me whether she is the entitled type or the generous type. If by the end of the second date she hasnt spent any money on us, she goes directly to the sex object category. Contrary to how I come across on this board, Im actually a very generous person. But Im always wary of people who dont deserve my generosity.
oaks Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Same here. One man asked, "What? You think I can't afford it?" To which you could say "I'm sure you can, but I ate half of it."
BeyondtheClouds Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Where are these men who insist on paying ALL the time? I have yet to meet one if we're talking about date No. 3 and beyond. I do know that some guys believe that when a woman offers to pay on the first date, they believe she is trying to say, "I never want to see you again." the two things that I gauge are ability to pay and how capable they are of paying for other women.
zengirl Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Every single guy I've dated before did not want to let me pay, and that's what I'm used to. I don't get the offended reaction. Perhaps softening the offer could overcome that, but this has been the case for me as well. I always offered, the guy always paid (at least on early dates -- I mean, in Rs, I have paid and bought stuff and the like at SOME point) and declined my offers. If an offer is declined, I find it rude to insist, unless I don't want to see the man ever again, etc, etc. Anyway, I'm younger than you, so I don't know if that's the difference in "take offense" or not. I usually said it in a joking way on a 1st date (that 1st bill is so awkward!), like, "What does my tally come to?" if he got the bill in kind of a playful tone. I find a playful tone sucks the awkwardness out of the whole paying process, honestly, and that guys generally reciprocated in kind.
Pierre Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 If that's the way you want to do it, say so up front, and then ask for separate checks from the get-go. Playing accountant at the table after the meal is sort of odd. Most waiters think that separate checks is tacky and extra work for them for no obvious reason. They think most folks should be able to split the bill at the table with little problem. They see it as a sign of being cheap.
Pierre Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 OK, that makes sense. Some of them invite me to places more expensive than I normally go, and might encourage us to order drinks, dessert, and things that run up the bill. I could afford the tab, but it would take a very big bite out of my fun budget to do so! Doesn't seem the case for them. If I pick the place, I always pick an affordable place. One thing I do hear a good bit of is complaints from guys with money about gold diggers or women trying to "take advantage" of them. I am so obviously not a gold digger, but I do sometimes feel that they are trying to test me somehow. A good date should never be about MONEY. I always pay even if I am having lunch with male friends. I am conditioned to always pay the bill because I don't enjoy others footing the bill.
Pierre Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I often get up and pretend I am going to the bathroom. Then I seek the waiter and pay the bill while my date is not watching. In that manner I avoid the issue of the waiter bringing the check to the table.
TaraMaiden Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 one of my friends would go into a restaurant with their date, and would take a waiter aside, and say "Could we please make sure I settle the bill privately? I don't want anything brought to the table." At the end of the meal, they would invent a call they had to make, but then make the excuse to ask the restaurant if they could make a phone call as they simply couldn't get a signal on their own phone.... and pay the bill discreetly. Relatively same scenario as Pierre's. It worked every time.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I give a woman two dates to show me whether she is the entitled type or the generous type. If by the end of the second date she hasnt spent any money on us, she goes directly to the sex object category. Contrary to how I come across on this board, Im actually a very generous person. But Im always wary of people who dont deserve my generosity. Muse, I don't get this. You don't want to be used for your money, sure I get that. But then to turn around and use a woman for sex just because *you* think after only 2 dates she is using you, I mean, you are dishing out the behavior you want to avoid. Why not just say "good bye" to her and not use her at all just like you say you don't want to be used?" Very very few women are actual gold-diggers. Certainly for the people on this board because most of us aren't multi-millioniares. I think this has been blown up in current culture because of an accumalation of male media that likes to call women names from sl*ts to "gold-diggers". It's really just another way to call women names and shame women for having any kind of responsibility or expectation on men. The comedian Steve Harvey came out with a book called, "Think like a man, Act like a lady"..despite the fact that the title shuns women for naturally being women, he makes a good point on "gold-diggers". Here is for you Ruby: On Men, money and gold diggers “Of course..some men simply refuse to share the money in their pockets with their women. As some rap songs and hip-hop magazines tell you, these men feel they’re being “played of they provide anything of monetary value to the opposite sex. Some men even label any and every woman who expects her intended to provide for her the very handy, decisively ugly phrase gold digger. Oh, when it comes to women, that phrase gets tossed around these days like dough in a New York City pizza parlor. In fact, men have set it up so well that we’ve got women thinking that if they remotely expect a man to pay for their dinner, or buy them a drink at the bar, or set any financial requirements for their man, then they’re gold diggers. I’m here to tell you, though, ladies, that the term “gold digger” is one of the traps we men set to keep you off our money trail; we created that term for you so that we can have all of our money and still get everything we want from you without you asking for or expecting this very basic, instinctual responsibility that men all over the world are obligated to assume and embrace. It’s a “get-over” term, ladies- one that has a very legitimate premise (there are, of course, women who date and marry men solely for their cold, hard cash), but one that has been wrongly and almost universally applied to any woman who has made it clear that she expects her man to fulfill his duty as a man. Know this: It is your right to expect that a man will pay for your dinner, your movie ticket your club entry fee, or whatever else he has to pay for in exchange for your time. You all have to stop this foolishness with the “I pay for my dinner so he knows I don’t need him” approach. As I point out in the next chapter, “The Three THings Every Man Needs: Support, Loyatly, and the COokie,” a man- a real one, anyway- wants to feel needed. And the easiest way to help him get that high is to LET him provide for you. This is only fair. And if he loves you? He is going to bring every sent home to you.” Act like a Lady, think like a man - Steve Harvey. 1
lospantalonsfancie Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 DY, the quote you used is offensive, particularly the "pay for your time" part. I'll preface this by saying that I usually pay on dates, and even on outings with male friends, because I am financially well off and it just makes me feel good. However, I hate it when I am _expected_ to pay, which is the sentiment that you, this quote, and other posters in this thread are expressing. Could you please answer one thing honestly. Why is it that you expect your date to "pay for your time"? Is it because you think that, as a woman, your time is more valuable than his? Because that would be offensive and sexist. Or, maybe, you as a human being are more valuable than he is? That is also offensive, at least if you believe that all men and women are created equal. Is there a logical explanation for this sense of entitlement that is fair, and consistent with equality of the sexes? Muse, I don't get this. You don't want to be used for your money, sure I get that. But then to turn around and use a woman for sex just because *you* think after only 2 dates she is using you, I mean, you are dishing out the behavior you want to avoid. Why not just say "good bye" to her and not use her at all just like you say you don't want to be used?" Very very few women are actual gold-diggers. Certainly for the people on this board because most of us aren't multi-millioniares. I think this has been blown up in current culture because of an accumalation of male media that likes to call women names from sl*ts to "gold-diggers". It's really just another way to call women names and shame women for having any kind of responsibility or expectation on men. The comedian Steve Harvey came out with a book called, "Think like a man, Act like a lady"..despite the fact that the title shuns women for naturally being women, he makes a good point on "gold-diggers". Here is for you Ruby:
joystickd Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Golddigger on this forum is used too loosely like misogyny and misandry. Most women men think are golddiggers are just simply users. Golddiggers are users but your average user is just satisfied with just getting for the short term. They lack the savvy of a golddigger meaning they are obvious about what they want. I will say it like this a user is like a smash and grab robber and a golddigger is like an embezzler. Guys there is nothing wrong with paying for a date. In both genders its an issue of getting what they want with the least amount of effort on their part. This is essentially the reason men have trouble paying for dates. Women have the same issue but is shows up in a different way. A contributing factor of this is men and women that are so easy to give. It becomes a thing where he or she did that and it works so maybe I should try it
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