Date with an Asian guy

[kaylan]

It sounds like you are very insecure (and maybe even self-hating) about your race/ethnicity. No white person would ever get mad at you asking them about their ethnic background. In fact, most white people would see it as good sign that you're taking interest in their family history, which is part of the normal process of getting to know each other. It's always minorities who are annoyed by such questions. Must be their inferiority complex.

Wtf are you talking about? The reason white people dont get mad at those questions is because they are the ruling majority in the West and dont have to deal with being fetishized or seen as "other" due to their race. Do you know what that feels like? Ever notice how people more commonly point out a minorities race than white persons race when telling a story? Instead of saying "I know this guy", they will say "I know this black/asian/indian guy". I see this a lot.

 

Until youve lived the life of a minority and really know what it feels like to have people see you firstly by your ethnicity most of the time, then you cannot ignorantly dismiss our experiences and viewpoints.

 

And inferiority complex? But excuse me, isnt whites the ones in power in most Western nations and those who seem bent on make sure the powerful people remain old, white, and male? Whos got the inferiority complex really then? God forbid someone not take kindly to being seem as some oddity or sexual fetish without being labeled as having an inferiority complex. How dare we want to be seen as regular people like everyone else...how dare I, a black man, identify as American without some idiot asking me if Im jaimaican or haitian based on my hair.

[ptp]

There's a difference between just asking "what ethnicity are you?" and generalizing about certain ethnicities (ie. "where are you really from?" questions which assume that certain ethnicities are always immigrants) or grouping different ethnicities to one ethnicity. The latter two are offensive and racist.

 

Right, but she assumes when some asks "Where are you really from" that they are generalizing, when in fact someone could just be asking "what ethnicity are you".

 

Like the example I gave in my previous post.

 

My friend from high school has the last name Avignoni.

 

When I ask him "Where are you really from?" I am asking him is your ethnicity French or Italian.

 

Is it wrong to be curious about a person's ethnicity?

[kaylan]

I'm proud to be Asian, thank you very much. I just dislike when my ethnic background becomes a guessing game for people. I also dislike when people who have not been subject to the same racism that I have put the blame on minorities for being offended, instead of reflecting on whether or not what they said was actually offensive.

 

But good job displaying your white privilege!

This.

 

Marry me? Youre so damn spot on with your posts.

But what if I just want to know what your ethnicity is? I could be curious about your culture and background. Aren't those fair questions? One of my friends in college was of Chinese dissent (1st gen), when I first met him I didn't know if he was Chinese, South Korean or Japanese. So I asked him. I wasn't trying to make a distinction between him and me, I was just curious about his culture.

 

It works that way with people of European descent too. A friend from highschool had the last name of Avignoni. Avignon is a city in France, while Avignoni sounds like an Italian name. Was it offensive of me to ask what his ethnicity was?

 

You could be assuming a lot of intent behind a question which could be fairly innocuous

Lmao @ people constantly trying to compare white experiences to that of non-whites. Its not the same. You dont experience the same life we do in white dominated countries.

[ptp]

This.

 

Marry me? Youre so damn spot on with your posts.

Lmao @ people constantly trying to compare white experiences to that of non-whites. Its not the same. You dont experience the same life we do in white dominated countries.

 

LMAO @ people assuming a poster's race based on what they post.

[kaylan]

LMAO @ people assuming a poster's race based on what they post.

Lmao @ you not reading my post. Where did I assume your race? I didnt at all. Learn to read. I clearly said its stupid that PEOPLE (I didnt say just white people) usually try the tactic of saying "white people(or another race) deal with it too" when an ethnic minority brings up an issue. You did just that in your last post.

 

Thing is, in regard to what favoritepills was saying, many Asian people are constantly asked about their ethnicity and encounter fetishists a lot. Way more than white people do. Its ridiculous when it comes to how badly some white dudes wish they were Japanese or Chinese and basically become creepy about it.

 

Its not different than how creeped out I am by white girls who overdo their interest in black culture and constantly quiz me on my people.

[ptp]

Lmao @ you not reading my post. Where did I assume your race? I didnt at all. Learn to read. I clearly said its stupid that PEOPLE (I didnt say just white people) usually try the tactic of saying "white people(or another race) deal with it too" when an ethnic minority brings up an issue. You did just that in your last post.

 

Thing is, in regard to what favoritepills was saying, many Asian people are constantly asked about their ethnicity and encounter fetishists a lot. Way more than white people do. Its ridiculous when it comes to how badly some white dudes wish they were Japanese or Chinese and basically become creepy about it.

 

Its not different than how creeped out I am by white girls who overdo their interest in black culture and constantly quiz me on my people.

 

Learn to read, learn write.

 

Lmao @ people constantly trying to compare white experiences to that of non-whites. Its not the same. You dont experience the same life we do in white dominated countries.

 

When you say that, you are assuming I couldn't have a non-white experience because I am white? You are assuming I don't have the non-white experience based on what?

[kaylan]

And what sort of "racism" did you get subjected to? Do tell.

I love when ignorant people such as yourself ask this dismissive question, such as to say "you probably havent ever faced racism and racism isnt a huge problem in the present day". Because it seems to imply that.

[kaylan]

Learn to read, learn write.

Well isnt that the pot calling the kettle black. Did you mean "learn to write"?

 

In any case, you are the one who needs to learn to read. My writing is fine. My post never made an assumption about YOUR race. My post was saying its stupid for people to try and discount a minority groups experience and viewpoint by comparing it to the majority groups experience. Whats the purpose of that?

 

When you say that, you are assuming I couldn't have a non-white experience because I am white? You are assuming I don't have the non-white experience based on what?

How can one have a non white experience if one is white? How can one face prejudice for being black or asian(non white) if one is white? You wont face the same kind of prejudice, if you are white, thats the answer.

 

The point is that a white persons experience in the West cannot compare to the experiences of minority groups, and people need to stop ignorantly thinking they can.

 

Thats like me stupidly trying to compare any prejudice Ive face as a black man, to that of women. But thatd be stupid right? Even though we are both not a "majority" group (black and female), I still have male privilege and wont face the same crap women have to face in life. So itd be a silly comparison in my view.

 

Finally get the point buck-o?

[ptp]

Right, so what makes you think I am not a minority living in the US? You are assuming that I have had the "white experience" so I do not understand the "non-white experience".

 

buck-o?

 

If you actually knew how to read, you would see I didn't assume I know what type of prejudice she faces. You would see that I gave 2 examples from my own life experiences where I asked 2 of my friends their ethnicity.

 

I asked them because I was curious, what is wrong with being curious about a persons ethnicity?

Edited May 14, 2012 by ptp

[kaylan]

Lots of really interesting discussion here.

 

 

This is very true. I'm Filipina and lived in the Philippines until age 20, and at my first job I worked with a lot of 30 and 40-somethings. It was HEARTBREAKING to find out how commonplace cheating was among men. They didn't even bother to hide it; in fact, they liked to brag about it to their friends. It was like a status symbol to have both a wife and a woman on the side. And older married men hit on me all the time (I was 18). I kind of hated men for a while after working there.

 

It embarrasses me when fellow Filipinas bash their countrymen and put white men on a pedestal for really shallow reasons, but people need to keep in mind that Filipino culture is patriarchal (the country is 80% Catholic) and not very female-positive (you won't believe the slut-shaming that goes on -- in college, I knew a ton of guys who would take girls' virginities and then break up with them because they weren't "pure" anymore), so I can't blame women for wanting to escape that in favor of a culture that respects them more. I've known plenty of good guys in the Philippines, but there are just so many things I disagree with about that culture that I honestly can't see myself dating a traditional Filipino who believes in all of those values that I detest.

Lame. Its really a shame how some cultures treat women and have such double standards regarding sex. And I agree that its a flipping shame how Asian women, (especially many in the West), will look down upon their own men while pedestalizing white men. I really never got why this happens so much more with Eastern Asian women than with women of other races. This is just my experience though.

 

Anyway, here's a couple of dating dealbreakers for me, as an Asian woman:

 

1) "Where are you from? ...No,

?" This question sets my teeth on edge, especially when asked a second time after I've already curtly answered, "Northern Virginia." People already assume I'm not first-generation because I have no accent, but still feel this weird annoying need to know my ethnic background. I don't go around asking black or white people "Where are you REALLY from?", and I'm sure I'd look weird if I did. This is a great article on why that question bothers me.

Im guilty of asking this question in the past, but Ill phrase it as "Where does your family originally hail from culturally?" I have noticed ethnic minorities do get asked the "where are you from?" question a lot more than white people, and usually by white people.

2) Don't fetishize my race. "I've always loved Asian women." "Asian girls are so hot!" "My last girlfriend was a Filipina." What, like all Filipinas are going to have the same taste in men? Ugh.

 

Those two things make up the one piece of advice I have for someone dating an Asian (or a person of any other race, for that matter): we're people, just like you. Being Asian is simply one aspect out of many that make up who we are.

Super agree. I used to think it was cool and alright back when I was in my teens, but now I roll my eyes whenever I hear a girl say "Ive always loved black men" or anything else that possibly indicates a fetish. Ill say it again, that I and many others just wanna be seen as people first.

 

Plus Ive encountered some people with a black fetish who think we are good enough to "try" when it comes to having fun dating, but wouldnt be romantically serious with us. Left a bad taste in my mouth, it did.

[kaylan]

Right, so what makes you think I am not a minority living in the US? You are assuming that I have had the "white experience" so I do not understand the "non-white experience".

 

buck-o?

Again, learn to read with comprehension. Nowhere in my post did I say you were white. I simply stated that you tried to compare a white and non-white experience, and that its ignorant to do so. Its ignorant to do so no matter what your race is.

 

Stop making the assumption that my admonishment of you is an assertion of your race. It is not. Read the language of my last post again. I frequently say "one" and not "you" when referring to a hypothetical person. "One" is third person and not directly labeling you as the subject, whereas "You" would be second person and directly labeling you as the subject. And in the case of the post you quoted, the subject is a white person, and thus you were not labeled as one.

 

I dont see whats so hard to follow if you take the time to read and not jump to conclusions.

 

If you actually knew how to read, you would see I didn't assume I know what type of prejudice she faces. You would see that I gave 2 examples from my own life experiences where I asked 2 of my friends their ethnicity.

 

I asked them because I was curious, what is wrong with being curious about a persons ethnicity?

If you actually knew how to read yourself, I wouldnt have to keep repeating myself.

 

And if you knew how to actually write or explain yourself properly, you would have seen that you did exactly what I accused you of. You talked about your Asian friend, and then mentioned how "Europeans face the same thing too".

 

And I told you that its stupid to compare the experiences because Asians live a different life and experience than your European friend. I said earlier that Asians hear ethnicity questions all the time and are used to people fetishizing their culture, much more so than your Europeans in the West.

 

My point was not that its wrong to be curious about someones ethinicity, it was that just because you asked an Asian and a White friend their ethnicity does not mean they had the same life experiences with the issue, nor does it mean that they internalized the same feelings when you did ask them.

[ptp]

Wow your reading comprehension is very poor.

 

It works that way with people of European descent too.

 

When I wrote that, it doesn't mean:

 

Asian friend experience = white friend experience.

 

It means, I can be curious about an Asian friend's ethnicity and I can be curious about a European friend's ethnicity. Minorities aren't the only ones whose ethnicity is difficult to ascertain.

 

My curiosity isn't limited.

Edited May 14, 2012 by ptp

[kaylan]

^My comprehension isnt poor. You fail at articulating yourself properly. You cannot make a statement thats poorly presented and poorly explained, and then later blame others for how they perceived it.

 

Next time when juxtaposing an Asian and White experience, maybe you should clearly present your viewpoint.

[Feelsgoodman]

Wtf are you talking about? The reason white people dont get mad at those questions is because they are the ruling majority in the West and dont have to deal with being fetishized or seen as "other" due to their race.

Give me a break. White people get fetishized too. White women get fetishized by black men, white men get fetishized by asian women...for some minorities, having a white boyfriend or girlfriend is a status symbol. I know what it feels like because I always get hit on by asian women, even though I'm not attracted them. But you know what? It doesn't make me mad to be "fetishized" by these evil asian females. You know why? Because we white people don't have a pickle stuck up our collective @ss.

 

Until youve lived the life of a minority and really know what it feels like to have people see you firstly by your ethnicity most of the time, then you cannot ignorantly dismiss our experiences and viewpoints.

I live the life of a minority every day of the week, son. As do many other white people living in major metropolitan areas. The only places where whites are still a majority are small towns and rural areas.

 

And inferiority complex? But excuse me, isnt whites the ones in power in most Western nations and those who seem bent on make sure the powerful people remain old, white, and male?

Yes, whites are in power in most western nations, just like asians are in power in most (actually all) asian nations and blacks are in power in all sub-saharan african nations. Does that make white people "racist by default"? Not really. In fact, contrary to your claim that white people are bent on making sure the powerful people remain old, white, and male, Americans have elected a black man very dubious background to be their president. How many predominately black nations have elected a white president?

[ptp]

^My comprehension isnt poor. You fail at articulating yourself properly. You cannot make a statement thats poorly presented and poorly explained, and then later blame others for how they perceived it.

 

Next time when juxtaposing an Asian and White experience, maybe you should clearly present your viewpoint.

 

You didn't take the appropriate time to read my post. If you were a better reader, you wouldn't have jumped to conclusions and had a better understanding of what I was trying to say.

Edited May 14, 2012 by ptp

[Pierre]

Wow your reading comprehension is very poor.

 

 

 

When I wrote that, it doesn't mean:

 

Asian friend experience = white friend experience.

 

It means, I can be curious about an Asian friend's ethnicity and I can be curious about a European friend's ethnicity. Minorities aren't the only ones whose ethnicity is difficult to ascertain.

 

My curiosity isn't limited.

 

Dude:

 

You don't ask minorities where they come from. That is what racist hicks from the south do.

 

Feel free to ask folks of Euro origin. However, the need to ask means you are ignorant and poorly educated. If you took a serious interest you could easily tell all Asian ethnicities from each other. No different than telling an Italian from a Brit. if you have to ask you are ignorant.

[Feelsgoodman]

I love when ignorant people such as yourself ask this dismissive question, such as to say "you probably havent ever faced racism and racism isnt a huge problem in the present day". Because it seems to imply that.

I love it when uppity people like yourself are offended by EVERYTHING. I simply asked her for specific examples to substantiate her claims of being discriminated. Are you trying to suggest that being colored automatically means that one is getting discriminated?

[kaylan]

You didn't take the appropriate time to read my post. If you were a better reader, you wouldn't have jumped to conclusions and had a better understanding of what I was trying to say.

I didnt take the appropriate time to read? Says the guy who kept thinking my post was calling him white because he didnt read?

 

Ok, whatever you say

[kaylan]

Give me a break. White people get fetishized too. White women get fetishized by black men, white men get fetishized by asian women...for some minorities, having a white boyfriend or girlfriend is a status symbol. I know what it feels like because I always get hit on by asian women, even though I'm not attracted them. But you know what? It doesn't make me mad to be "fetishized" by these evil asian females. You know why? Because we white people don't have a pickle stuck up our collective @ss.

Again, you cannot compare the experience of whites (majority) to that of non whites. So stop trying to do that.

 

I live the life of a minority every day of the week, son. As do many other white people living in major metropolitan areas. The only places where whites are still a majority are small towns and rural areas.

You seem to think term "minority" is only about population numbers. Its not. Its also about wealth, status, and power. These dynamics have an affect on the experiences of people of different races, especially since racial lines were drawn in the sand when it came to those things and we are still undoing that history.

Yes, whites are in power in most western nations, just like asians are in power in most (actually all) asian nations and blacks are in power in all sub-saharan african nations. Does that make white people "racist by default"? Not really. In fact, contrary to your claim that white people are bent on making sure the powerful people remain old, white, and male, Americans have elected a black man very dubious background to be their president. How many predominately black nations have elected a white president?

Asian nations have a less than 1% racial minority population so its not comparable to western nations with much larger percentages of racial minorities yet the power distribution being so unequal. And we only have to take a look at history to see why that is so. Your argument fails.

 

And just because Obama is president, does not change how the top 1% behaves. The dude became presented because so many white people identified with his white upbringing. So lets be serious.

 

Wanna ask a question about black nations? How many black nations were given white leaders without having a say so in the matter? Oh thats right...a lot of them.

I love it when uppity people like yourself are offended by EVERYTHING. I simply asked her for specific examples to substantiate her claims of being discriminated. Are you trying to suggest that being colored automatically means that one is getting discriminated?

Im not offended by everything. Im offended by stupid questions. Stupid questions like yours are highly typical though. I couldnt keep count of how many times Ive heard someone question a minority about whether or when they have faced racism. And this always happens after the minority person shares their distaste for any sort of silly stereotypes or prejudice or other dumb crap. Basically those questions seek to dismiss their viewpoints by questioning them.

 

Why does she need to prove to you that shes dealt with prejudice? And no, being a minority doesnt automatically mean someone will be discriminated against, but it definitely increases their chances of facing it based on how our country behaves.

 

And who says colored anymore? I wasnt aware it was the 1950s.

Edited May 14, 2012 by kaylan

[123321]

Asian nations have a less than 1% racial minority population so its not comparable .....

 

Sort of. Remember that if for instance you are in Korea, and you are Chinese, or Malaysian, Japanese, or some other Asian, you're still a racial minority to the Koreans around you. We tend to lump it all together as "Asians" in the west but when you are on the ground here, people can see many shades of yellow, so to speak.

[Feelsgoodman]

You seem to think term "minority" is only about population numbers. Its not. Its also about wealth, status, and power. These dynamics have an affect on the experiences of people of different races, especially since racial lines were drawn in the sand when it came to those things and we are still undoing that history.

Some minority groups are richer than the "majority". Asians are the richest ethnic group in terms of per capita wealth in my city. Does that mean that they are the "majority"?

 

Asian nations have a less than 1% racial minority population so its not comparable to western nations with much larger percentages of racial minorities yet the power distribution being so unequal. And we only have to take a look at history to see why that is so. Your argument fails.

Where I live (Canada), there are quite a few non-white members of parliaments (from all major political parties). In fact, most communities that are predominately ethnic are represented by ethnic MPs. Likewise, there are tons of black and hispanic senators in the US. I don't know where you get the idea that the power distribution is "so unequal"...you seem to be stuck in Martin Luther King's times.

 

How many black nations were given white leaders without having a say so in the matter? Oh thats right...a lot of them.

Never mind Martin Luther King's times. Apparently, you are stuck in the 19th century. Come back when you realize it's 2012.

[Pierre]

OK, lets stop this.

 

The important thing is:

 

Did Ruby see the penis of her date. What size?

[kaylan]

Sort of. Remember that if for instance you are in Korea, and you are Chinese, or Malaysian, Japanese, or some other Asian, you're still a racial minority to the Koreans around you. We tend to lump it all together as "Asians" in the west but when you are on the ground here, people can see many shades of yellow, so to speak.

True, Asians are more cultural then other groups it seems. They wont blend together as much despite being racially similar. This does lead to xenophobia sometimes. One of my classmates from college was Korean-Japanese. He was full blooded Korean but born and raised in Japan. So he speaks Japanese and very like Hangul, and hes more culturally Japanese than Korean. He says because of his dual culture, he notices much more how actual Koreans are treated differently in his country, even though some of them can blend in if they dont speak and show their accent.

 

 

Some minority groups are richer than the "majority". Asians are the richest ethnic group in terms of per capita wealth in my city. Does that mean that they are the "majority"?

Again, we are talking about which group disproportionately controls most of the country despite their percentage of the population. Whites are overrepresented in positions of power and a lot of that has to do with a history of racism in America (and other Western nations). Lines were drawn in the sand based on race in the past (and sometimes still is) and 55 or so years of post Civil Rights Movement doesnt erase hundreds of years of prejudice in the system.

Where I live (Canada), there are quite a few non-white members of parliaments (from all major political parties). In fact, most communities that are predominately ethnic are represented by ethnic MPs. Likewise, there are tons of black and hispanic senators in the US. I don't know where you get the idea that the power distribution is "so unequal"...you seem to be stuck in Martin Luther King's times.

Does quite a few mean the number of representatives accurately reflect the countrys population? Can you tell me that positions of power are spread out to reflect the population?

 

You really need to look up the numbers of US representatives. 35% of the US is non white, and congress, and especially senate, does not reflect this in the least.

Never mind Martin Luther King's times. Apparently, you are stuck in the 19th century. Come back when you realize it's 2012.

Again, another dismissive statement. God forbid you admit that prejudice exists in the West, and god forbid you accept that minorities are not in equal status to whites.

 

Whenever anyone states these facts, people like you label them as being stuck in the past so you can turn a blind eye to the present. Does reality make you that uncomfortable? Or are all the racial minorities in the West who agree with my sentiments just wrong about their personal experiences?

Edited May 14, 2012 by kaylan

[ptp]

I didnt take the appropriate time to read? Says the guy who kept thinking my post was calling him white because he didnt read?

 

Ok, whatever you say

 

So lets see matte123, 123321, Feelsgoodman and Pierre didn't have trouble understanding what I was trying to say.

 

You jumped to a conclusion without fully taking the time to read what I had written, but it was my fault.

 

Now that is something to LAMO about.

[kaylan]

So lets see matte123, 123321, Feelsgoodman and Pierre didn't have trouble understanding what I was trying to say.

 

You jumped to a conclusion without fully taking the time to read what I had written, but it was my fault.

 

Now that is something to LAMO about.

Whats your point? That someone "liked" your post? Someone "liked" my post too. So wheres that leave us? Im glad you take pride in having the support of someone who negatively stereotypes someones penis size though. Good for you.

 

 

Anyways Im done helping to derail this thread. Its utterly fruitless to argue with people who use the typical arguments of "you need to lighten up" or "youre living in the past" whenever someone expresses their distaste for being seen by their color first, such as favoritepills expressed.

 

Good luck OP and keep us updated on the new guy.