ONS v LTA --- risk level

[Summer Breeze]

I'm starting this because another poster and I touched it on a thread a little while ago. We were both aware it was taking the thread OT so I thought I'd start a new one.

 

The discussion was whether multiple ONS or LTA were 'easier' for a MW or MM to participate in. It appeared she was making the assumption all MP do not get emotionally involved and the A is only for sex. Note I am saying clearly that is how I interpreted what she wrote and am not trying to put words in her mouth.

 

I feel that ONS pose much less risk to an MP than a LTA. An LTA introduces emotions, familiarity and often routine.

 

The other poster felt that ONS were riskier because you never knew who you were going to be with and could run into a stalker.

 

We both said a little more than that but that should be what the discussion is about.

 

I would like to say I think there will have to be some scope to discuss the emotional involvement in an LTA within this thread. It's clear I am of the opinion it is real and happens often and it appears she disagrees.

[Radagast]

There are risks in any relationship, including marriage. The risk levels may be different but the type of risk would also differ, depending on context and expectation.

 

I have only ever had one affair. It was risky in that we did both fall in love which was not our intention at the outset. I imagine that one night stands would be risky in a very different way. Which risks you are prepared to take and which you are not would vary from person to person. I was prepared to take the risk of having an affair, any affair, because at that stage I felt completely desperate in my marriage. Now I am happy and fulfilled in my marriage and have absolutely no desire to take any risks that could jeopardise that or hurt my wife in any way.

[wellwhynot]

I'm not completely sure I'm on the right topic, so please let me know if I'm not.

 

I also have only had one affair. My AP has also only had one affair, with me.

We have a solid relationship of over 3 years. During this time he has consistently spent more hours per day engaging with me than with his wife.

The "risk" that presented itself was we fell deeply in love and have created and maintained a solid and very real committment to one another, which has resulted in a out of normal "bounds" relationship that we have no intention of ceasing. I know that a ONS would not have carried the same emotional risk, but would have carried others that I am not sure I would have been comfortable accepting.

[Summer Breeze]

There are risks in any relationship, including marriage. The risk levels may be different but the type of risk would also differ, depending on context and expectation.

 

I have only ever had one affair. It was risky in that we did both fall in love which was not our intention at the outset. I imagine that one night stands would be risky in a very different way. Which risks you are prepared to take and which you are not would vary from person to person. I was prepared to take the risk of having an affair, any affair, because at that stage I felt completely desperate in my marriage. Now I am happy and fulfilled in my marriage and have absolutely no desire to take any risks that could jeopardise that or hurt my wife in any way.

 

 

Thank you Rad. I was thinking more along the lines of the risk of being caught by the BS.

 

I like the bolded.

[wellwhynot]

Ah, when you specify risk of being caught, I think there is a greater chance of getting caught in a LTR because you are engaged with that person a LOT. More interaction=more opportunity for missteps. Plus simple things like your behavior changes when you love someone. I know my MM has made comments about how he has to be careful not to smile at the computer screen if I log into messenger and his wife is in the room. That seeing my name there on the screen makes him happy and he involuntarily finds himself smiling for what would appear to her to be no reason.

[Got it]

In regards to the OP, I believe a LTA has a higher risk factor for being caught. You increase the amount of interaction, evidence, interwoven lives, etc that give a much great risk of exposure. I think if one was interested in low(er) risk than ONS would be less likely in that regard though more likely chance of STDs, etc. (which could/would cause exposure).

Edited May 10, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed quote to OT post and OT reply portion of this poster's response

[woinlove]

We see examples here of LTAs that last 5, 8, 10 or more years. I think so much depends on how good a liar the WS is. To sustain both an M and a secret A for many years is to effectively lead a double life and I don't think many people are capable of that level of deception. But those who are, may be very capable of it, and may continue on for decades undetected if they have a fixed formula for seeing/communicating with the AP and if they can lie with ease. On the other hand, if the WS is a bad liar, he/she is much more likely to be caught and not even have the chance to develop an LTA.

 

ONS certainly involve deception if one has an M where monogamy has been promised, if nothing else, lies by omission are needed. But it may not take the active lying. Again, a person who is basically honest and doesn't like to lie may act in a way, even with a ONS, where the truth comes out (assuming they don't simply confess). While one who is less honest may easily get away with a ONS.

[LoveTKO]

We see examples here of LTAs that last 5, 8, 10 or more years. I think so much depends on how good a liar the WS is. To sustain both an M and a secret A for many years is to effectively lead a double life and I don't think many people are capable of that level of deception. But those who are, may be very capable of it, and may continue on for decades undetected if they have a fixed formula for seeing/communicating with the AP and if they can lie with ease. On the other hand, if the WS is a bad liar, he/she is much more likely to be caught and not even have the chance to develop an LTA.

 

.

 

 

 

It's interesting that you should post this because the MW I'm seeing is a complete paradox. She is leading a double life, since I've been with her for many years; however, she is also a terrible liar at the same. When her H asks her where she's been or what she had for dinner, she'll come up with an answer but it's obvious that he's not buying it. She'll break out in a laughing fit, or will exhibit some type of behavior that makes the H roll his eyes. She isn't a good liar at all. The main thing that she has going for her is her flexible schedule / career which makes it hard for the H to establish a routine or pattern indicative of red flags, since it involves quite a bit of travel.

[woinlove]

It's interesting that you should post this because the MW I'm seeing is a complete paradox. She is leading a double life, since I've been with her for many years; however, she is also a terrible liar at the same. When her H asks her where she's been or what she had for dinner, she'll come up with an answer but it's obvious that he's not buying it. She'll break out in a laughing fit, or will exhibit some type of behavior that makes the H roll his eyes. She isn't a good liar at all. The main thing that she has going for her is her flexible schedule / career which makes it hard for the H to establish a routine or pattern indicative of red flags, since it involves quite a bit of travel.

 

Part of what I consider being a good liar is just doing it a lot. Some people really hate to lie to anyone close to them about anything they know the other would expect/want the truth on, while others don't. Having a LTA typically requires one to be fine with lying a lot. Sounds like MW is fine enough with it to keep doing it, even if the way she lies is not polished. And it sounds like she basically wakes up every morning, goes to sleep every night, knowing she is lying. Lying by omission, outright lies in some cases, whatever. That takes a certain kind of person. Someone I call a good liar just for shorthand, but I agree it doesn't necessarily mean one is smooth. Being smooth obviously helps with not being detected as well.

[LoveTKO]

Part of what I consider being a good liar is just doing it a lot. Some people really hate to lie to anyone close to them about anything they know the other would expect/want the truth on, while others don't. Having a LTA typically requires one to be fine with lying a lot. Sounds like MW is fine enough with it to keep doing it, even if the way she lies is not polished. And it sounds like she basically wakes up every morning, goes to sleep every night, knowing she is lying. Lying by omission, outright lies in some cases, whatever. That takes a certain kind of person. Someone I call a good liar just for shorthand, but I agree it doesn't necessarily mean one is smooth. Being smooth obviously helps with not being detected as well.

 

 

I posted a topic while back regarding this exact pattern of behavior and what the long term ramification are. I have noticed that she does go through transient phases of intense guilt, or hibernation mode as I've coined it........ starts spending more time with the family, takes on more job stress as a means of distraction. The funny thing is that she always comes back full circle , and with more zeal and lust. I often said to myself that, "this must be it...it's over", but she always comes back around. When I back off and have other things going for me, she'll wonder why I have been a bit distant.

[woinlove]

I posted a topic while back regarding this exact pattern of behavior and what the long term ramification are. I have noticed that she does go through transient phases of intense guilt, or hibernation mode as I've coined it........ starts spending more time with the family, takes on more job stress as a means of distraction. The funny thing is that she always comes back full circle , and with more zeal and lust. I often said to myself that, "this must be it...it's over", but she always comes back around. When I back off and have other things going for me, she'll wonder why I have been a bit distant.

 

I went back and looked at your thread and, yes, that behavior is relevant to this thread topic. Most people can't or don't want to lead a double life, and it may be difficult for us to understand the kind of person who does. I suspect those who do could do it forever, unless they go through significant internal change and few people really change in that way. So, your MW, may be one that can keep this up indefinitely, even if she has to withdraw periodically to push back the guilt and negative feelings.

 

Perhaps one can say almost be definition that someone in a LTA has a pretty good chance of being able to continue on undetected unless something changes, because they have whatever it takes to sustain that level of deception. As you see in the case of your MW, it doesn't necessarily come without stress and a toll, but, still, they can and want to carry on.

[Radagast]

[/b]

 

 

Thank you Rad. I was thinking more along the lines of the risk of being caught by the BS.

 

I like the bolded.

 

Thank you for clarifying. I would guess a long-term affair with a single partner would be at greater risk of discovery. While it is possible that many one-night stands may throw up a psycho or a STD, chances are that neither partner is invested enough in anything beyond the instant gratification. Providing, of course, that both agree it is just a one-night stand, and not the start of something else.

 

With a long-term relationship there is a far greater risk of both parties coming to invest heavily in the relationship. This could put the married person at risk if their lover frequents LoveShack and takes the advice often given here to "push the cake eater off the fence" (I have personally never seen anyone sitting on a fence eating cake but clearly others have) by telling the betrayed spouse about the affair. It could also result in the unfaithful spouse becoming careless, or not caring, about getting caught and leaving evidence where their spouse could find it. Also they are more likely to undergo changes within themselves and the outward manifestations of those like how they dress or behave or what music they choose to listen to or what books they read which could cause suspicion. They are more likely to spend large sums of money on gifts or travel and phone calls that could be detected. They are more likely to start guarding their privacy around mobile phones, email accounts etc which may not have been the case previously. And if they fall in love they are more likely to want to talk things through with a friend or family member who may in turn inform the spouse.

[Radagast]

Perhaps one can say almost be definition that someone in a LTA has a pretty good chance of being able to continue on undetected unless something changes, because they have whatever it takes to sustain that level of deception.

 

I don't agree with that at all! Yes there was a good chance of the affair continuing undetected because my ex-wife was not interested in knowing even when others told her but I disagree with your claim that "almost by definition" a spouse in a long-term affair has "whatever it takes to sustain that level of deception". I found the increasing gulf between the fake life I was living with my ex-wife and the authentic life I was leading with my lover more and more difficult to bridge and I knew I had to resolve it because I could not sustain the inauthenticity with my ex-wife. The affair may have been able to continue indefinitely for all she cared, but I could certainly not continue indefinitely. So I told her.

[woinlove]

Maybe might be useful to define what one thinks as a LTA. I usually think A lasting more than a year or two are LT. This pushes things into a fairly small percentage of affairs, maybe 10%. The stats I've seen peg the average length of an affair at only 3-4 months, which I would not call long term, although we certainly see posters who are heavily invested after only a few months and some MM/MW even leave their M to be with the AP full-time within months of the start (so-called exit affairs, for example). Length of A doesn't easily correlate with emotional investment, although obviously a ONS doesn't have much.

 

For my definition of a LTA, I would say many changes that might have happened have already taken place and, consequently, the affair could go on much longer. Of course, there can always be some change, the schedule of the BS or WS, for example.

[woinlove]

I don't agree with that at all! Yes there was a good chance of the affair continuing undetected because my ex-wife was not interested in knowing even when others told her but I disagree with your claim that "almost by definition" a spouse in a long-term affair has "whatever it takes to sustain that level of deception". I found the increasing gulf between the fake life I was living with my ex-wife and the authentic life I was leading with my lover more and more difficult to bridge and I knew I had to resolve it because I could not sustain the inauthenticity with my ex-wife. The affair may have been able to continue indefinitely for all she cared, but I could certainly not continue indefinitely. So I told her.

 

Sorry, I don't know how long you kept your A a secret, but was under the impression that it was not so long as to qualify as LT, so not sure how this applies to you.

ETA. I would think during the first year of an A there can be all sorts of changes that might give rise to a d-day, confession being one of them.

Edited May 9, 2012 by woinlove

[LoveTKO]

a psycho or a STD, chances are that neither partner is invested enough in anything beyond the instant gratification.

 

With a long-term relationship there is a far greater risk of both parties coming to invest heavily in the relationship.

 

 

This argument always makes me chuckle a bit when I look at the real world. Psychos and STD's are not exclusive to the realm of one night stands. When I read some of the threads on LS about long term affairs, it's rather obvious that a lot of these relationships involve narcissistic personalities or people with other personality disorders. STD's are just a potential occupational hazard when you have sex with someone......... like the referee instructing the fighters before a boxing match, "protect yourself at all times....good luck...and let's get it on!!!"

Edited May 9, 2012 by LoveTKO

[Radagast]

Maybe might be useful to define what one thinks as a LTA. I usually think A lasting more than a year or two are LT. This pushes things into a fairly small percentage of affairs, maybe 10%.

 

By that definition my affair would be "long-term".

 

 

 

Length of A doesn't easily correlate with emotional investment, although obviously a ONS doesn't have much.

 

My instinct and experience says otherwise but I would be interested in statistics on this if anyone knows of any.

 

For my definition of a LTA, I would say many changes that might have happened have already taken place and, consequently, the affair could go on much longer.

 

This was not my experience. Love developed over time, with greater investment by both us in the relationship. And with more investment in the relationship there was less concern about investing in the vestigial relationship (the marriage) and so a greater chance of discovery, had she been interested enough to suspect anything.

 

The changes had certainly not all taken place early on. It was a progressive development over time. During the first few months there was probably little discernible difference as neither of us was that invested. It was only once we fell in love and occupied each other's minds around the clock that behaviour and resource shifts started to take place, accelerating over time. I'm sure other people's experiences may differ but I would be highly suspicious of someone who fell in love overnight and left a marriage within weeks of meeting someone new. I would guess that they had either long checked out of their marriage and were waiting for the first passing person to catch their interest to provide them with the motivation to leave, or they were never that committed to their marriage in the first place. Throwing away a decades-old marriage on a whim is not something I would have considered doing and while I am sure such people exist I do not think they are the norm.

[stillwater]

The stats I've seen peg the average length of an affair at only 3-4 months, which I would not call long term, although we certainly see posters who are heavily invested after only a few months and some MM/MW even leave their M to be with the AP full-time within months of the start (so-called exit affairs, for example). Length of A doesn't easily correlate with emotional investment, although obviously a ONS doesn't have much.

 

I don't know how people can live the double life for more than even 3 or 4 months. I guess it depends on the A dynamics though. For example I read about a lot of A's here where they only see each other once a week or less. Once the PA started I was seeing MW every day, and trying to maintain that level of deception for very long is incredibly difficult. Not to mention the emotional toll it takes to tell one person you love them, then go home to someone else and pretend like everything is normal. I couldn't handle it after a few months, but she continued on for months after that and I'm pretty sure she could have kept going indefinitely. I'll never understand.

[Radagast]

I don't know how people can live the double life for more than even 3 or 4 months. I guess it depends on the A dynamics though.

 

And the dynamics of your home life. If you go home to a spouse who asks how your day was and chats to you about theirs and wants to share things with you and be physically close it would be much harder to sustain than going home to a house where your spouse leaves as you arrive having left a note for you on the fridge with instructions on chores that need doing and arrives back home after you're already tucked up in your bedroom which they don't share with you because they like their own space and quietly goes into their own and stays there until you've left for work in the morning and taken the kids to school.

[skylarblue]

I think multiple ONS pose a greater risk to STDs (amazing how many cheaters don’t/wouldn’t use protection) and wouldn’t be as convenient as a LTA. ONS may pose the possibility of arrest (i.e. prostitutes, strip clubs, massage parlors), dangers (hooking up with strangers), or work in finding multiple partners. If finding multiple partners from one environment (like work) that poses the risk of exposure (too many spoons in the pot) or jealousy.

 

LTA are more convenient, but run the risk of emotional attachment causing a bigger impact and/or threat to the M. I think LTA have a greater possibility of producing “the woman scorned” or the “crazy” OW, or greater chance of arousing suspicions by noticeable changes in the WS (xMM's wife said she knew something was going on, but just couldn’t put her finger on it).

 

Ideally, a LTA that’s strictly FWB would be ideal, kinda a mixture of ONS and LTA. A pleasurable and mutual liking, convenient, safe, no emotional attachment or expectations, and minimal risk. Problem is usually at least one of the two can’t do it.

[woinlove]

I think multiple ONS pose a greater risk to STDs (amazing how many cheaters don’t/wouldn’t use protection) and wouldn’t be as convenient as a LTA. ONS may pose the possibility of arrest (i.e. prostitutes, strip clubs, massage parlors), dangers (hooking up with strangers), or work in finding multiple partners. If finding multiple partners from one environment (like work) that poses the risk of exposure (too many spoons in the pot) or jealousy.

 

LTA are more convenient, but run the risk of emotional attachment causing a bigger impact and/or threat to the M. I think LTA have a greater possibility of producing “the woman scorned” or the “crazy” OW, or greater chance of arousing suspicions by noticeable changes in the WS (xMM's wife said she knew something was going on, but just couldn’t put her finger on it).

 

Ideally, a LTA that’s strictly FWB would be ideal, kinda a mixture of ONS and LTA. A pleasurable and mutual liking, convenient, safe, no emotional attachment or expectations, and minimal risk. Problem is usually at least one of the two can’t do it.

 

I agree with this. If one wanted to squeeze the maximum amount of infidelity into an M without having the truth come out, LTAs that are strictly FWB would probably the way to go, but selecting the right APs would be tricky.

[Bellechica]

I believe the risk of discovery is much higher in a LTA. Also, I believe most LTA involve much more than just sex. There is definitely an emotional attachment which drives the BS to continue wanting to communicate with the AP and wanting to continue the A.

[cocorico]

I think a LTA is much riskier because he will develop feelings and buying expensive gifts and taking the OW on exotic holidays and coming back with a wonderful all-over tan so he can't pretend to the BS that he was sitting all day in a conference so he will be much more likely to get caught.

[woinlove]

I think a LTA is much riskier because he will develop feelings and buying expensive gifts and taking the OW on exotic holidays and coming back with a wonderful all-over tan so he can't pretend to the BS that he was sitting all day in a conference so he will be much more likely to get caught.

 

:laugh: I think this belongs in the Happy Moment thread!

[cocorico]

I think ther are other logistical risks involved with LTAs too. Like communication, the BS finding emails and texts declaring love while a ONS would be nothing suspicious, simply let's meet at this time at that place, it could be anybody about anything, but you might not even have to text if you just pick up some random in a bar.