To mend or not to mend. Women w/kids respond

[hinatticus]

Ive been reading lots of posts here and it is helping me through this. I won't go into all the details cuz I feel like I'm on the right path(but who knows for sure). Anyway we were together 4.5 years and have a 21 month baby. Im 33 and shes 26. We've been living apart for a month, been broken up for just over two months now.

 

We've had our usual relationship problems but those aren't the real problems. She has a background of abusive relationships and her dad left when she was young. I now know how emotionally abusive I was to her. In reality on a scale of 1 to 10, I probably was a 4 or 5. She felt the abuse was probably closer to 7-8. I never said stuff like, where's my dinner bitch, or why are you late whore. It was more along the lines of letting petty resentments(her leaving dishes out for days or making me wait everytime I picked her up) build up. Then I would bring it up and that would come across as nit picking. Things would escalate to the point of both of us yelling(me a lot louder), then would come me demeaning her. She would contradict herself and I would say "if you believe that you're an idiot".

 

Now, I know any kind of abuse is terrible and I've felt great shame and guilt. I'm seeing a counselor and I can honestly say I'm a lot calmer now. I know it takes a long time to change but I've been working on this stuff my whole life. It's just now I have to speed up progress plus I have more tools(counselor). My counselor said relationships are 50/50 and the stuff my ex has said to me were bad as well. She would be very sarcastic and mimic me while we argued. That drove me nuts. Having my counselor say that took a bit of blame off of me. Regardless, I feel terrible that my actions caused her so much pain. I cry of shame and not really sadness.

 

So right now I'm in LC because we share a child. I've done my snooping and there really isn't another guy, but that's beside the point. I'm the one who ****ed up more and I feel I need to fix this. If there is another guy I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I never call or text her unless she initiates. It's usually about our son then progresses to her asking me what I've been up to. I'll take her shopping every once in a while cuz I have a vehicle and she doesn't. I feel like I need to be taking care of my family cuz I don't want to be a deadbeat dad. I'm great with my son, that's never been an issue. We are 50/50 when it comes to him.

 

My question is this. How much time and space should I be giving her. Should i even help her out or let her struggle on her own? Some of my friends may think I'm being too nice to her, but remember I ****ed up. I haven't brought up relationship talk. Whenever we do see each other it's great. We're happy and she talks a lot about her day. She'll make me food and buys me stuff(not gifts, but snacks or food, gas etc,). I wonder if she's just being nice to so I don't blow up. I know I shouldn't try reading her mind.

 

I've done the usual. Bettering myself, hanging with friends and family, reading etc. but I hurt her so I feel guilty about being selfish right now. At the same time I don't want to push her further away or become a doormat. There's a fine line between being a man(good father) and being a doormat.

 

Any response is appreciated. Especially from the females out there with kids.

There's so much I've left out so if you guys have any questions that are pertinent, ask and I'll answer.

Thanks

[fucpcg]

My ex broke up with me, and accused me of abuse. She came from an abusive marriage of about 16 years, so this was a girl who came from a hard life before me. When she accused me of abuse, it absolutely FLOORED me, as I have 5 sisters I love to death, and I've always tried to treat any woman with the respect I'd want some guy to give to one of my sisters. Once she accused me of abuse, I really looked back and tried to study what I did, and how I acted, and you know what, yes you could consider some of my behaviour abuse. But am I abusive? Or is it really abuse, or just an argument with an overly sensitive girl? What happened? Am I really that horrible of a person? My mind played this one over, and over, and over..... and a year later, it still does, but a little less severely.

 

When you deal with someone coming from abuse, I don't know that you can win. Every relationship has it struggles. When those struggles happen with someone who is extremely scared, you now suddenly become a mirror of everything they went thru, prior to you. My ex told everyone about her abusive husband and marriage. Within two months of us dating, she was telling me how much she loved me. When she broke up with me after 11 months, she was telling everyone what a crazy, psychotic, abusive boyfriend I was. Did I screw up? Hell yeah. Am I that terrible? In my journey to answer, I asked the 4 other girls I've had long term relationships with if they ever found me abusive. Their answer was yes we had fights, but don't be silly you are not abusive. So with them it was a fight, with my ex it was abuse.

 

On the flip side, my ex had performed very poorly with me at times as well. When I searched "signs of abusive relationship" and things along those lines, when doing soul searching after her accusations, ironically I found her behaviour toward me in many occasions to be listed along the lines of abusive. Did I ever call her, consider her abusive? No, that to me was a joke. She had issues, we had fights, but I NEVER considered her abusive, I considered her my girlfriend.

 

I don't know your story, I only know mine. Only you can answer the questions about what happened. However is it conceivable that you can/will over-punish yourself for what happened? Yes. Being accused of abuse is a HORRIBLE thing, when you are not really abusive.

[BewitchedandBothered]

Ive been reading lots of posts here and it is helping me through this. I won't go into all the details cuz I feel like I'm on the right path(but who knows for sure). Anyway we were together 4.5 years and have a 21 month baby. Im 33 and shes 26. We've been living apart for a month, been broken up for just over two months now.

 

We've had our usual relationship problems but those aren't the real problems. She has a background of abusive relationships and her dad left when she was young. I now know how emotionally abusive I was to her. In reality on a scale of 1 to 10, I probably was a 4 or 5. She felt the abuse was probably closer to 7-8. I never said stuff like, where's my dinner bitch, or why are you late whore. It was more along the lines of letting petty resentments(her leaving dishes out for days or making me wait everytime I picked her up) build up. Then I would bring it up and that would come across as nit picking. Things would escalate to the point of both of us yelling(me a lot louder), then would come me demeaning her. She would contradict herself and I would say "if you believe that you're an idiot".

 

Now, I know any kind of abuse is terrible and I've felt great shame and guilt. I'm seeing a counselor and I can honestly say I'm a lot calmer now. I know it takes a long time to change but I've been working on this stuff my whole life. It's just now I have to speed up progress plus I have more tools(counselor). My counselor said relationships are 50/50 and the stuff my ex has said to me were bad as well. She would be very sarcastic and mimic me while we argued. That drove me nuts. Having my counselor say that took a bit of blame off of me. Regardless, I feel terrible that my actions caused her so much pain. I cry of shame and not really sadness.

 

So right now I'm in LC because we share a child. I've done my snooping and there really isn't another guy, but that's beside the point. I'm the one who ****ed up more and I feel I need to fix this. If there is another guy I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I never call or text her unless she initiates. It's usually about our son then progresses to her asking me what I've been up to. I'll take her shopping every once in a while cuz I have a vehicle and she doesn't. I feel like I need to be taking care of my family cuz I don't want to be a deadbeat dad. I'm great with my son, that's never been an issue. We are 50/50 when it comes to him.

 

My question is this. How much time and space should I be giving her. Should i even help her out or let her struggle on her own? Some of my friends may think I'm being too nice to her, but remember I ****ed up. I haven't brought up relationship talk. Whenever we do see each other it's great. We're happy and she talks a lot about her day. She'll make me food and buys me stuff(not gifts, but snacks or food, gas etc,). I wonder if she's just being nice to so I don't blow up. I know I shouldn't try reading her mind.

 

I've done the usual. Bettering myself, hanging with friends and family, reading etc. but I hurt her so I feel guilty about being selfish right now. At the same time I don't want to push her further away or become a doormat. There's a fine line between being a man(good father) and being a doormat.

 

Any response is appreciated. Especially from the females out there with kids.

There's so much I've left out so if you guys have any questions that are pertinent, ask and I'll answer.

Thanks

 

What you are is a good man, NOT a doormat. You are also showing your child good example of what it is to be a compassionate human being. I applaud you for all you are doing; you have a good heart.

[hinatticus]

Fucpcg. I've read some of your story and related to it. I called my sister up and apologized to her for my being mean to her growing up. She also told me that I was just being her brother. I asked if her if I had "broken" her, but really blamed my dad(he left when we were young) and her last bf who cheated on her. Nevertheless, I told her I would stop being mean. I thought siblings had a free pass, but I know I'm wrong on this.

 

I still feel crazy shame because I still love my ex with everything I have. I know i have anger issues that stem from my past. Everybody is a product of their environment, and i was surrounded by angry people. I can handle a mad person any day of the week, but that doesnt give me a right to treat the woman i love that way. Especially over the petty stuff. I love my family and will do anything to fix this. We were in couples counseling before we broke up so I feel there is still hope. I know she knows she has issues. She has anxiety and self confidence issues which she sought counseling for in the past. She was overweight and bullied as a teenager. She wouldn't even show me any pictures of what she used to look like until we were together for like 2 years. When I saw the pic I said "I'd tap that ass!". We laughed. Just to clarify, I've never called her names based on her appearance. I fricken love her figure now. She's half Italian so she has very nice curves!

 

Bewitched. Thanks for the encouragement. I will continue to be there for her and my son. Until of course she starts seeing someone else. At that point I might have to put on the breaks and back off on helping her. I just don't know how long I can keep this charade up. I just want to hug her and kiss her and tell her I love her.

 

I guess it's true... A man will do anything for the woman he loves. I'll fight until there is no fight left.

 

We've gone months without fighting which is good. I'm always in good spirits when I see her. I'll see her again on Wednesday when we do the "swap". We've only done things together as a family but I was thinking more along the lines of dating again. My friends band has a show on the 24th. Do you think it's too early for that kind of thing?

 

Anyway thanks for reading. As you know, just posting here is therapeutic.

My son, Atticus just woke up. time to play with him! Man, having a child gives me crazy motivation to fix myself and this relationship. He needs to see that his parents can make it through **** times. I hope I can pull through for him.

[hinatticus]

Oh, and the whole abuse label is way to broad as my counselor pointed out. Where I come from an alcoholic is someone who has 3 drinks a week. I guess we're all alcoholics. Although I don't drink(maybe 3 beers a month), but you get my point.

 

They gotta put it on a scale I think. If you are 1-4 maybe call me mean, not abusive. Just my two cents. Either way I'm gonna fix myself.

[fucpcg]

My temper is explosive and intimidating. I DON'T snap over little things, it's not about that. I came from terrible childhood, bad neighborhoods, etc. I can be scary, scary is how you survive in certain situations growing up. My parents were awful, I had no guidance, nobody looking out for me, I had to survive. Now I am about the most nurturing guy you could ever meet, and probably one of the scariest. I'm very active in animal rescue. I'm the guy who takes in the scary dogs and rehabilitates them into great pets. I've had probably 30 rescue cats into and out of my house. So this kind of leads into my ex... she had 3 young boys. My ex had many issues, and her kids definitely paid some price for it. I tried to be very protective of both her and her boys as we first started dating. As time went on, I got VERY protective of her boys. I once almost ripped the head off of one of the boy's teachers, when he made her son cry and not want to go back to school anymore. I went MENTAL. Well that anger finally came out one day, on her, after a year of dating and watching her screw up a lot of things with the boys. I had very valid concerns, and I only said true things, but I did it in a way that was very explosive. I meant the right thing, my actions however threw all that out the window.

 

My ex didn't deserve for me to explode on her. I DIDN'T mean to hurt her, or put her down, I just was defending children, kinda like I wish someone was around for me to do when I was the kid. I see that I need to work on myself, my anger, and work hard to be a better man. But am I abusive? It wasn't my intention. Unfortunately that is how I came off to a woman coming from abusive marriage. Somebody else could have understood where I was coming from, and forgave me. Her, she went on to declare how abusive I was to everyone, as she exited stage left.

 

What can you do?

 

We sound very similar, it seems.

 

And one more thing, I haven't even come CLOSE to getting rid of the guilt and pain I feel, knowing I hurt her, and acted that way with her. I've never really done anything in life that I felt any real guilt about. This explosion however, I cannot forgive myself for and move on. It still eats at me every day. I hurt her, I lost her, I lost the three boys that I cherished so much, and I'm not there to be a guardian of theirs anymore. I have no idea how to forgive myself, a year later and counting...

Edited May 7, 2012 by fucpcg

[hinatticus]

Wow man. We seem very similar. I'm mr sensitive as I can cry in front of my friends, but then mr rage comes out. That's when my ex feels scared. To tell you the truth, I hit above rage mode a couple of times. Never knew I could get that mad. Our counselor said when one of us gets to level 7 do your escape plan(I'd go for a drive and grab a coffee, 1/2 hour max). When my ex wouldn't let me leave cuz she wanted to talk still, I freakin lost it. I thought, I'm trying to do what the counselor suggested and you won't let me! I would never hit her tho. I've been reverse traumatized cuz of my dad. My dad used to beat us, beat my mom too. I was 3 when I told him to stop hitting mommy. I would never hit someone like that. In fact every fight I've been in, I've been jumped. Never had a chance to throw a punch.

 

The thing is though, I'm more of an intellect than my ex(university degree plus went to college for electrical). I read somewhere that intellects tend to be more logic oriented. In a relationship sometimes logic has no place. It's all about feelings and emotions. I felt I was logically right in some cases, but my ex felt otherwise. Her pain that she felt built up over time, whereas I thought logically speaking, what's in the past is in the past. I don't let it affect me in the present or future. Sounds logical right?

 

Did you take an anger management?

Do you feel you have your temper under control?

I must say, my road rage has gone down quite a bit. My sister has worse road rage than me;)

I hear ya on the guilt front. I've never in my life cried over shame or guilt before. Weirdest feeling. Easier to forgive someone else than yourself it seems.

 

Anyway. My son is done eating his dinner. Might take him for a drive out in the rain. He loves being in the truck.

Edited May 7, 2012 by hinatticus

[BewitchedandBothered]

Fucpcg. I've read some of your story and related to it. I called my sister up and apologized to her for my being mean to her growing up. She also told me that I was just being her brother. I asked if her if I had "broken" her, but really blamed my dad(he left when we were young) and her last bf who cheated on her. Nevertheless, I told her I would stop being mean. I thought siblings had a free pass, but I know I'm wrong on this.

 

I still feel crazy shame because I still love my ex with everything I have. I know i have anger issues that stem from my past. Everybody is a product of their environment, and i was surrounded by angry people. I can handle a mad person any day of the week, but that doesnt give me a right to treat the woman i love that way. Especially over the petty stuff. I love my family and will do anything to fix this. We were in couples counseling before we broke up so I feel there is still hope. I know she knows she has issues. She has anxiety and self confidence issues which she sought counseling for in the past. She was overweight and bullied as a teenager. She wouldn't even show me any pictures of what she used to look like until we were together for like 2 years. When I saw the pic I said "I'd tap that ass!". We laughed. Just to clarify, I've never called her names based on her appearance. I fricken love her figure now. She's half Italian so she has very nice curves!

 

Bewitched. Thanks for the encouragement. I will continue to be there for her and my son. Until of course she starts seeing someone else. At that point I might have to put on the breaks and back off on helping her. I just don't know how long I can keep this charade up. I just want to hug her and kiss her and tell her I love her.

 

I guess it's true... A man will do anything for the woman he loves. I'll fight until there is no fight left.

 

We've gone months without fighting which is good. I'm always in good spirits when I see her. I'll see her again on Wednesday when we do the "swap". We've only done things together as a family but I was thinking more along the lines of dating again. My friends band has a show on the 24th. Do you think it's too early for that kind of thing?

 

Anyway thanks for reading. As you know, just posting here is therapeutic.

My son, Atticus just woke up. time to play with him! Man, having a child gives me crazy motivation to fix myself and this relationship. He needs to see that his parents can make it through **** times. I hope I can pull through for him.

 

You have to be in it for the long haul; you both have a son. If he sees that you are hardly there--even if she sees someone, he will think that is how it is supposed to be. YOU are the parent, no matter what.

[hinatticus]

You have to be in it for the long haul; you both have a son. If he sees that you are hardly there--even if she sees someone, he will think that is how it is supposed to be. YOU are the parent, no matter what.

 

Back from my drive. He loves listening to my music and going for cruises..

 

To tell you the truth I haven't really thought too much about her seeing another guy. I know for a fact that I will always be there for him. Ill just have to stop doing things for her(driving her to work the odd time, helping her with grocery shopping etc). Atticus can be a handful when shopping by yourself. She called me one time while shopping and she said he was crying for 20 min straight. Usually if there are two of us there, one does the shopping while the other watches Atticus. He hates sitting so he usually walks with us. Sometimes he wanders off and that's when it gets tricky by yourself.

 

I will never neglect my son. I've been there for him since he was still in her tummy. I went to all her appointments, watched as he came out and took him to all his appointments. I was also the one who set up his dentist and took him by myself. My ex works really retarded hours. She takes the bus so that adds 2 hours travel time. Usually gets home after 9 pm. I'm basically his primary care giver. I'm sure there is some resentment towards me for that as well. My job history is kinda complicated but at least I got my foot in the door for a career I love(electrician). Still have schooling to do but it's a solid career choice.

 

I promised myself I would never neglect him like I was. You are right, I'm his dad. I will be a damn good one whatever the outcome...

[hinatticus]

So... Should I be in fix the relationship mode or fix myself and ignore relationship stuff mode or do I do both at the same time?

[fucpcg]

sorry i'll get back to you. my answers to you are not short ones, so doing them when i have the time to answer fully.

[hinatticus]

Thanks fucpcg. I'll be waiting patiently...

 

Anyway, had a fun day with my friend, his gf and their beautiful daughter. Went to the mall for some food and then let the kids play in the play area. Chatted up with some moms too. No way am I ready to venture down that road yet, but it was nice talking to some females.

 

Bath time for Atticus!

[fucpcg]

First and foremost, as it sounds like you are doing, be a man. Be there for your child, do things that enables your ex (ex for lack of better word at the moment) to better care for your child (which means if she needs a ride to grocery story give it to her), work on your issues, and don't pressure your ex into seeing the new you.

 

I don't have anger issues, I have explosive temper issues. I don't get mad for no reason, but that is what makes me extra volatile and scary, is that when I do lose it, I am confident I am losing it for a good reason, and that allows me to go to 10 no problem. STILL, as my signature says "anger brings damage and loss". Learned this one after the ex dumped me, and it's always fresh in my head. I'll give another "hostility cannot think intellectually". I don't punish myself for having this type of temper, it's not my fault I was a neglected child. HOWEVER, for the first time in my life, this temper cost me something that to me was worth almost more than life itself. Yes my ex has issues, but she was such an amazing woman with me, when being herself. Had I kept nurturing that woman, instead of being poison on occasion, I could have helped her have a better life, and I would still be an amazing father figure to her 3 boys who clung to me and needed one so badly. Does my ex have a responsibility to do better herself? Yes of course. But I was someone that for a while she looked up to and respected, and wanted to turn her life around for, and in a few moments of anger was scared away that someone she let in hurt her again, and she ran back to what she knew before me, her comfort zone, a world of alcohol, bad friends, and random sex. Yes her responsibility to fix, but I could have helped or harmed, and in the end I harmed. RAGE may have served me well for a part of my life, but now it is only a hindrance. I wish for me, to be rid of it. It's been a full year of reading, talking, counseling, reflection.... I've learned so much, I've come so far.

 

A year out from our breakup, I took one more stab at reaching out to the ex, and she still isn't having it. I wrote her probably the greatest letter in the history of love breakup/makeup/let's talk letters ever written, 3 pages worth, and what I got in return was a text that said "Stop contacting me. This is harassment. How me and my children are doing is none of your business".

 

Did I F up? Yea. Have I done all that I can, and probably more than any other man would have to patch things up? Yea. Do I deserve the hostility I am shown by my ex, and all of the horror stories she has spread around town about me? NO. I should have, I wish I had done a better job with the ex. However I didn't earn her accusations. This goes back full circle to what I told you, I am sure you screwed up, but you have to be careful how much blame you take, or you may take a dump truck full more than you deserve.

 

I've come a long way this past year... good for me. If the ex chooses to respond to that, that will only be her choice alone. Mine has chosen not to respond. I don't know what your's will do, but either way you need to take the steps you need to grow. Just don't let your good conscience let you take more pain, blame, suffering than you deserve. Accept what you are responsible for, don't accept that you are the cause of all the drama and pain in her life BEFORE you.

[hinatticus]

Thanks for replying fucpcg...

 

I will continue doing the rights things for my family. It just feels right doing so. I'm not pretending to be nice or doing it for any other reason. I have strong morals so I'll follow them.

 

I can totally relate to the rage mode when you "know" it's for a good reason. But I've learned there is no place for rage in a relationship unless its for survival. I'm big on evolution, so I believe rage is part of our DNA. If you go back to caveman days, anger was a survival mechanism. Some douche caveman steals your food/wife etc. that's your life at stake. A caveman will get into rage mode to protect his food or offspring in order to just survive. Now in our day and age we can't be raging on every person who challenges us. Our society now doesn't work that way. We gotta use better judgement when to go into rage mode.

 

I think I've learned over time, along with better tools(books/counselor), to manage my anger. We are intellectual beings and are completely capable of talking it out. If someone truly endangers my family or my life, I'm sure my rage will come out, justifiably so.

 

I'm proud of you and you accomplishments. You sound like you have your head on your shoulders right. Sometimes we are dealt **** cards and gotta play em out. I'm just not ready to fold yet. My pot is just to big for me to fold right now. Sorry for the poker analogy, I don't even play poker, but you know what I mean.

 

I'm sure you've posted before, but how old are you and your ex. Also, do you think if it were your children, she would be more willing to give you another chance?

 

Seems like I'm just searching for hope. Which is weird cuz I never and I mean never hope for anything.

 

Anyway, my ex is coming by after work to do the swap. I'm excited that our son will see us as a family. Even if it's just for a few moments...

[fucpcg]

We are 41 and 40. I never gave up on my ex, she threw me out. As mentioned, there were times I could have done the same, and fairly called her abusive alcoholic, yet I stood by her side, and as importantly, for the sake of 3 boys who really benefitted from having someone like me around. When I lost it in that argument (about how I felt she was not standing up for her son at a time she should have been), she went off the hook. Terms used after she split with me include crazy, psycho, abusive, degrading of her, all contact now labeled as harassment, after not even contacting her for over 2 months her friends telling people she needs protection from abuse.... yea, it can get bad. Her boys told her they wished I was their stepdad, her youngest was always glued to my side, and he was what could definitely be considered a problem child, but he was just my lil best friend. I've asked to maintain relationship with them, she said I never took an interest in them. Wow. Her relationship with her husband is just like with me, they do not talk at all. If they have an issue to discuss about kids, they will only leave each other voicemail. Should have been a warning to me.

 

I don't want to give up. Im not sure she will ever calm down. I don't know what to tell you about your girl, other than be warned uglycan get ugly.

[tornangel]

Sadly most abused women end up with another abusive man. It is just the way it happens. And I have been abused throughout my life. And alot of people wanna say abused people are damaged and ya know what I say to that, who isnt? people who arent abused think they are better and they are not. And alot of people say that they dont abuse really or very often. Abuse is abuse , and it does go both ways. My exs never owned up to it. And any FORM of abuse is not about love, its about control. So I think it is good that u are working on urself for ur family and u. I am currently alone and raising my son alone because my ex didnt think he was really abusive. If u have to question it, then the answer is probably yes.

[hinatticus]

I feel for ya fucpcg. Never give up in what you believe man.

 

Tornangel.. Im sorry to hear you have to do this by yourself. I know how hard it can be. Try being a male and doing it. It's not exactly the most natural thing to do. Good thing for me my love for my son makes it easier to handle his outbursts and dirty diapers and all that other good stuff;)

 

I just don't want to be reprimanded because I am owning up to it. Abuse is such a broad umbrella that I'm sure most people out there are guilty of it in one way or another. I've read that calling someone a liar or a hypocrite is abuse. Sarcasm? Abuse. mimicking? Abuse. Basically any label or demeaning behaviour is considered abuse. Makes you wonder... I'm glad my counselor said I'm not lumped in with the worst of the worst. Still doesn't make my actions justified.

 

I just hope all my "good" qualities can overcome this abuse label I seem to have attached to me.

 

Thanks for the reply guys. I have such a great support system and this just adds to it.

[fucpcg]

Remember, I could have taken the definitions of abusive, and easily justified myself in labeling her abusive our first two months. Abusive alcoholic to be more specific. It was ridiculous some of the things I put up with our first two months. After I broke up with her, she had no problems coming over my house the next morning begging for a chance to talk, all the reasons she had why she screwed up, how it was just a tough time in her life, she's soo sorry she'll do so much better if I just give her a chance.... On and on, and on, for over a week, till I calmed down enough to talk. We did talk, we talked things out, we moved forward better and stronger, and I never told anyone about why I broke up with her, all I did was call her my girlfriend.

 

When I acted improperly, I'm abusive, trying to contact her abuse, blah blah blah, all the stuff I already told you. SO...... how is it she's not abusive when she shows abusive behavior (its just a bad time in her life that I should forgive her for), yet when I show it I'm her next abusive boyfriend that she got trapped into after her abusive husband.

 

See that is what tornangel is not grasping here. ANY person can be labeled abusive if you judge them on certain moments of their life. I do not try to discredit that I had a period of time that I was REALLY not a good boyfriend to my girl, but it was never my desire or intention to abuse her, put her down. When she was the one wanting to get together, like I said it was like it was "expected" for me to just forgive her. When I screw up, it's abuse. You made the point that maybe you were a level 5 prick, yet she perceives level 9 because her past experience.

 

This is the struggle we both have. Big hearts, bad childhoods, scars we wish we didn't have, that displayed to a strong woman would be forgiven, but displayed to an abuse victim it makes us an abuser. I was strong with her when she needed me, she doesn't have strength to give back. Makes us a mess because we never had desire to be abusive, we wish to be so much better than that, but we get judged for a moment in time, not our hearts. She could have been better with me as well..... YET it rips my heart out that I was ever weak with her.

Edited May 10, 2012 by fucpcg

[hinatticus]

Man fucpcg. I hear exactly where you are coming from. Some people have no clue what forgiveness is. My ex doesnt fully grasp that concept, but im hoping she learns for the sake of my son.

 

Did you lose any friends because of your ex labeling you? If you did, then that really blows. Im sure if tornangel met you in real life she would have a different opinion of you. Tornangel... Be careful when you judge and generalize, that's abuse in itself.

 

You sound like a stand up dude and if you believe you truly feel remorse then your god has forgiven you(I'm not religious). Heck, I'll forgive you! We're all human and make mistakes. Maybe in time your ex will realize she's made a mistake in calling you out to everyone she knows.

 

To my knowledge my ex hasn't told everyone I'm an abuser, but I know for a fact her family hates me. I got lumped in with her exes therefore I'm a bad apple. Doesn't really matter to me cuz her sisters are two faced and have their own moral issues. If they were genuinely nice people I'd feel worse, but I know the kind of people they really are. They say one thing and do another. Perfect example... One of her sisters came into my home uninvited(I was in my freaking underwear and robe!) and took my ex and my child from me stating "she's my sister, I'd do anything for her", YET she won't babysit for my ex or let my ex babysit for her cuz, get this, she doesn't know how to discipline our son! My ex is a great mom. One of many reasons i love her. My ex felt horrible thinking she was a bad mother. How's that for abuse.

 

I think it comes down to what my best female friend says... "All chicks are f u c k e d". Her words, not mine.

 

Fucpcg.. I think weve both learned our lesson. That's a lot more than I can say for a lot of humanity. Hence the reason I'm a misanthrope. I'm a happy one tho. I'm not bitter, a little cynical yes, a realistic optimist. Your ex may come to her senses. I really hope mine will. WE both have!

 

Anyway, back to my story... My ex got off work at 8:45. Took a bus back to our end of town and i told her I would drive her to get groceries. I made her a light supper and packed it. She's always hungry after work and it's too late for her to make herself dinner and get our son down for the night(he has a late bedtime, usually 10-1030). I also bought her an iced cap and in return she got me some pizza pops and toaster strudels(stuff I never buy but enjoy on occasion). I don't like reading into her actions but doesn't it seem like she's warming up to me? I talked to my bro and he likes the idea of asking her out to a friend's gig on the 24th(if you like heavy melodic music check em out! Intransformation on iTunes).

 

Anyway, I'm still bettering myself in the meantime. Hopefully the time/energy/work I'm putting in gets noticed. I love this girl.

[fucpcg]

Honestly I don't give a rats a$$ what anyone thinks of me, for the most part. I do worry what me ex's family thinks of me, because they were really wonderful with me, and very welcoming as if I was family. We went from discussions of marriage and a child, to I'm psycho abusive *********, how did she explain that one to the family? Lord knows what she told her kids about me, that really bothers me. Ironically, I just found out recently that her oldest son, who has FB account, who she went in and blocked from my account after split, went back in and unblocked me. Outside of that, I don't care what anyone thinks of me. I am who I am, I've got a huge heart, I am a devoted friend and person. My ex's friends have trashed me, while taking her by the hand and leading her back into the bar life when she's already borderline alcoholic mother of 3. Nice. Nobody in here knows me, outside of the few I've had regular PM contact with, or anyone who has closely followed my posts. My friends are wonderful, amazing people, who have helped me thru this massacre. I told my friends after our split, to please remain friends with her. They tried, until she used that opportunity to tell them how awful I was to her, then they just stopped talking to her.

 

As far as forgiveness, had my ex extended me the same amount I extended her, I wouldn't be in here talking about my "ex". Hurts to know I hurt her, but I didn't do anything that much more horrific than she did to me. However one does not grow as a man by saying "this is what I did? oh yea look at what you did!". It's been a bad year without her and the boys, but it has been a good year for me becoming a better man.

Edited May 10, 2012 by fucpcg

[tornangel]

Okay, demeaning someone is abuse, and calling her an idiot is abuse and just because u feel the abuse is mild and a "tough woman could take it, doesnt matter " . Like I said abuse can go both ways, the female abusing also. But I kinda feel u both are blaming ur actions on a " victim of abuse " . which honestly makes me wanna throw up. Just because she has been abused . Give me a break. Sorry I am not trying to be mean, but read what u both have wrote. Nobody deserves abuse, NOBODY.. Bottom line. This is problem with our society, even with kids being abused.... Everyone protects the abusers , and blames the victims , UGH

[tornangel]

Some things are unforgivable. Period. Abuse can at times easily fall in this category . This is the problem, everyone wants to blame someone and have a quick fix.

[hinatticus]

I agree with you. Abuse is abuse. When my ex called me an ******* or made me feel insignificant cuz she mimics me while we argue I let it go. My childhood and environment made me develope thick skin. I also know how to forgive.

 

I am in no way blaming her for anything other than not forgiving when I've forgiven her. I also understand all people have different levels of tolerance. I grew up with racism. I'm Asian and have been called very awful names. Did I get upset when my exs mother asked me where my rice bowl was? No I didn't. My ex got upset tho. My ex says I have chinky eyes, but I also know she was being funny. I'm not even Chinese! Call me a nip with anger, then I might get upset.

 

All I'm saying is my ex was quick to lump me into the abuse column. If she had grown up with thick skin she probably wouldn't have used the word abuse. But since she was abused in the past that's what she knows. I'm not blame shifting, I'm just calling it like it is. I'm still gonna correct my ways because this was the first time someone has ever used the word abuse to me. Made me feel great shame and this will just be another thing in life that I will correct about myself.

 

I'm reading this book right now that says abuse to one person isn't necessarily abuse to another. Call me chink all you want. Call me nigger. I don't care. What I care about it is how SHE felt. I realize NOW the difference in our tolerance levels.

Tornangel you sound very angry and bitter. You seem to generalize which is a bad thing to do. Not everybody is gonna think the way you do, but you do have the right to your opinion as I'm stating mine.

 

Btw. I still think your ex has done some deal breaker type stuff, and I hope you can really move on and be happy.

[hinatticus]

Another btw..

 

Tornangel. If I asked you this... Do you believe pigs with horns that breathe fire can fly exist? Would you honestly say yes? If you believe that than you are an idiot. Now I'm not calling you an idiot I am just saying that's the type of stuff I would call her on. Not directly calling her an idiot, but rather stating an obvious fallacy. In her emotional state all she would hear is the word idiot. Therefore since the word idiot came out of my mouth and directed at her she falsely assumed I was calling her an idiot. Regardless, my statement is more along the lines of childish, which is demeaning, which is abuse. Just don't think I flat out called her idiot for an honest mistake.

[hinatticus]

And... I've re-read my posts and I honestly don't see anything I've written that would upset you. can you clarify? Bewitched said I have a good heart, yet I want to make you barf.