Husband Cheated, I'm completely lost

[never be the same]

This is a long and complicated thing, I will try to be brief. I found out my H had a six month long affair, busted him 4 months ago, and have been dealing with him continuing to lie for the last four months. The story has changed a bunch of times, I have gotten him to admit MANY of the details, and he insists now there's nothing left to tell, but I doubt everything he says, obviously.

 

My issues are as follows: I know from the way he has acted and certain fairly shocking things that he has done, that he is 100% remorseful. Having said that, that's not really making me feel better.

 

Issue 2- I am obsessed with the thought that this woman was so much better looking, and better in bed, and I have never been so aware of all of my physical flaws (of course prince charming insists that "she doesn't compare to me" but what else would he say? he hasn't been honest about alot of it so I wouldn't expect him to tell me if she were better.

 

Issue 3-We've been together a long time, have 3 kids a home, mortgage, the usual. My problem is, I really don't like him anymore, at all. I'm so disgusted by him and his behavior, I feel ike I don't know him, but I do love him.

 

Issue 4- If it happened once and he fessed up, I would have forgiven him. But this lasted 6 months, he saw this woman everyday at work for 6 months, it wasn't "a mistake." A mistake is once, this was a choice, and it inly ended because I caught him.

 

There are so many more details and issues, but these are the ones on my mind right now. He is giving me all the bullsh*t lines "I love you, I didn't realize how much I took you for granted, I'll spend the rest of my life making it up to you," blah, blah, blah. If he really feels like that, great. But who the hell knows with all the lies.

 

HELP?!?!?! I'm feeling like it would be so much easier to just walk away, I don't even want to look at him right now

[TaraMaiden]

never be the same have you considered counselling?

 

Let me just say this, right now:

 

 

Counselling . is . not . designed . to . keep . people . together.

 

no, it's not.

 

Counselling provides people with a safe, level and even playing field where each partner can express themselves calmly, openly and safely, and really reveal what is on their mind and discuss things logically with an eventual hope of a healthy compromise.

Counsellors are not there to do the work for you.

They arbitrate and guide, suggest and open up avenues of further dialogue, but their job is neither to teach nor preach, and they can't fix anything.

 

You have to fix ‘anything’.

 

The problem is - both people have to want it.

Because one person, on their own, cannot fix what ails 2 people.

a relationship is a partnership, and both people are 100% responsible for their 50% of the partnership.

 

'Blame' is more proportional - and in this case, it's blatantly obvious where the blame lies - but the responsibility of relationship maintenance goes right down the middle.

 

Counselling will give you a place to truly hold him to account - but at the same time, it will be a place where brutal honesty, some of it hurtful, painful and even at times almost impossible to bear - will be encouraged.

 

There is a couple who post on here, who survived an affair, worked through it, are together and are stronger, as a couple, than ever.

Recovery IS possible - but it has to be absolutely the full 100% aim of both partners, to achieve it.

 

You don't sound as if you are willing, and I can understand that.

Everyone is different.

But counselling will at least help you get the scrambled eggs that were minds - straightened out....

[darkmoon]

"I'll spend the rest of my life making it up to you" just what actions will he take to make it up to you? has he said? or is it just charming talk? he wants his "life" with you, ok, but i'd need to see actions speaking louder than words, real effort to make you happy, but i wouldn't blame you for throwing the towel in if you don't like him, he's done a terrible thing to do to a wife

[never be the same]

Well, when I first caught him (it was with a coworker), my intial reaction was "You're not ever going back there." And he said ok, with no hesitation at all. I wasn't really thinking clearly, but he went in to speak to his boss, after hours, and quit on the spot, and found a new job, and there has been no contact with her since. He gave me the password to his facebook and email accounts, and now texts me his every move throughout the day (which, to be quite honest is annoying but i guess he's trying). He swears this was JUST SEX, no feelings, no emotion at all.

 

I do know, becuase of what I saw and what the OW told me, that she approached him and was VERY aggressive, naked pics, etc. Still doesn't excuse him being weak, needy, insecure a**hole, but it makes me beleive there was no emotion, so he had no problem cutting all ties with her immediately.

 

My H is a very low key guy. Doesn't really ever get angry, raise his voice, takes alot to get him upset. These past few months he's acted like nothing I have ever seen. Crying (alot), sometimes I look up and he's sitting at the table with tears coming down and we had just been having a normal conversation. We've been together 12 years and I've never seen this, of course I never would have thought he would do this so what the hell do i know?

 

One other thing that happened: about a month after I caught him, i woke up to him crying and rambling on and on about how I didn't deserve this, I was the perfect wife, on and on, the whole time he was rubbing my hair and crying. I wokeup in the middle of him talking, so I don't know how long it went on, but that one thing seems pretty hard to fake. It seemed so real and geniune. But again, he was doing the chick at work for 6 months and I had no idea, so who knows whats genuine?

 

I guess this is my struggle. I can't make sense of it. His remorse, and the tears, and the sadness, and the walking around aimlessly, staring off into space, not shaving, overeating! (he's very fit and never had an issue with his diet, but since this happened he can't stop eating!) I've never seen him like this.

 

As much as I hate what he did and I have so much anger and resentment and hurt, it hurts to see him like this.

 

Ugggghhh. But in the back of my mind I just keep hearing a voice telling me to stop being an idiot and move on, he knew exactly what he was doing.

[never be the same]

Oh and as far as counselling, I am open to it. At first, I was dead set against it, I told him that "WE" didn't have an issue "HE" did, so he could go to counseling himself. Of course, I know it was obviously an issue that had to do with both of us now, and I am thinking about it again. But, he did start seeing a therapist on his own, which was also shocking.

 

Problem is, he only went to a few appointments and then we lost our insurance because he quit his job. New insurance kicks in soon, we'll see if he chooses to go back, but when I told him I thought he needed to go he was all for it.

[Professor X]

Considering you guys have 3 kids, and from the sound of things he's really remorseful, I say you should try and rebuild the RS. I'd love to tell you to leave him, because he really doesn't deserve you, but in truth, you guys got a family and you love each other still.

 

Give it a second chance, you got a lot to lose.

[never be the same]

Honestly, if it weren't for the kids I would not be putting myself through this, even though I love him. But it would be alot to give up. My problem is this, even if I survive this and somehow learn to live with it, if it ever happens again, I don't know what I would do. This has taken an unbelievable toll on me. for the first two weeks after I found out, i couldn;t stop throwing up. I have lost 40 pound since december, I have no appetite. My hair has actaully started falling out.

 

I imagined that if he ever cheated it would be like the movies. i would throw all his crap out the window and that would be it. I never imagined this much pain, I was totally unprepared for this.

 

And since I had no guarantee that he wouldn;t cheat the first time, I have no guarantee that he won't a second time. The thought of putting in all this work ahead of us, and rebuilding, and trying and reliving all these painful details, just for him to end up cheating again is unbearable.

 

I'm 34, what if I'm wasting the best years of my life with a guy who is not capable of being faithful?

[Professor X]

I'm 34, what if I'm wasting the best years of my life with a guy who is not capable of being faithful?

That's a risk we all take, every day, with anyone, is it not? But we choose to trust and hope for a better day.

 

It's up to you to decide if everything you got is worth the risk in trusting him again. It won't be easy, and if you were without kids I'd tell him to kick him out of your life in an instant, but it's different for you.

 

I understand that you are now furious at him, and as TM said "Counselling . is . not . designed . to . keep . people . together. " - but it will help you get back on your feet, to think clearly, to trust again, to relief the pain you have now inside of you.

[Lostinlife4now]

Well, when I first caught him (it was with a coworker), my intial reaction was "You're not ever going back there." And he said ok, with no hesitation at all. I wasn't really thinking clearly, but he went in to speak to his boss, after hours, and quit on the spot, and found a new job, and there has been no contact with her since. He gave me the password to his facebook and email accounts, and now texts me his every move throughout the day (which, to be quite honest is annoying but i guess he's trying). He swears this was JUST SEX, no feelings, no emotion at all.

 

I do know, becuase of what I saw and what the OW told me, that she approached him and was VERY aggressive, naked pics, etc. Still doesn't excuse him being weak, needy, insecure a**hole, but it makes me beleive there was no emotion, so he had no problem cutting all ties with her immediately.

 

My H is a very low key guy. Doesn't really ever get angry, raise his voice, takes alot to get him upset. These past few months he's acted like nothing I have ever seen. Crying (alot), sometimes I look up and he's sitting at the table with tears coming down and we had just been having a normal conversation. We've been together 12 years and I've never seen this, of course I never would have thought he would do this so what the hell do i know?

 

One other thing that happened: about a month after I caught him, i woke up to him crying and rambling on and on about how I didn't deserve this, I was the perfect wife, on and on, the whole time he was rubbing my hair and crying. I wokeup in the middle of him talking, so I don't know how long it went on, but that one thing seems pretty hard to fake. It seemed so real and geniune. But again, he was doing the chick at work for 6 months and I had no idea, so who knows whats genuine?

 

I guess this is my struggle. I can't make sense of it. His remorse, and the tears, and the sadness, and the walking around aimlessly, staring off into space, not shaving, overeating! (he's very fit and never had an issue with his diet, but since this happened he can't stop eating!) I've never seen him like this.

 

As much as I hate what he did and I have so much anger and resentment and hurt, it hurts to see him like this.

 

Ugggghhh. But in the back of my mind I just keep hearing a voice telling me to stop being an idiot and move on, he knew exactly what he was doing.

 

 

Hi Never....

 

Believe you me if you didn't catch him....he would still be doing it with her!

 

Be careful.....

[KathyM]

Normally, I'd say to throw the guy out. If he didn't value you enough to stay away from other women, then he doesn't deserve you, and considering how much damage is done from an affair and how hard it is to rebuild trust, I wouldn't take it on. But the man does sound very remorseful. It sounds like he feels awful for having done this to you, and he really wants to keep you and his family intact. I can empathize with the mixed emotions you are going through--can't stand to look at him, hate him for the selfish thing he did, but you also see a broken man who realizes how close he came to losing everything, and wishes he could change the road he took. My sister went through this the first time her husband cheated on her. It was heartbreaking to watch. He was very remorseful, and so sorry that he hurt the woman he loved. Some men realize how close they came to losing everything, so they would never consider risking it again. But unfortunately, some men are weak. Some men are selfish, and even though they had a rude awakening the first time around, they find themselves going down that road again later on after you've done all the work to try to stay together. Hard to know which type your husband would be. No one has a crystal ball. For my sister, her husband did cheat again many years after the first time around. Only you know your husband well enough to make the call whether it makes sense to try to save the relationship. He may seem very remorseful now, but a weak and selfish man is a weak and selfish man. Most marriages do end in divorce if there is infidelity involved. The ones that survive are usually those where the marriage and relationship was broken, and that is what caused the spouse to look for others, and when their relationship was healed, they were stronger than before. But in your case, you had a good marriage, but your husband cheated because he was weak and selfish, much like in my sister's situation. And as another poster stated above, if you hadn't discovered the affair, it would still be going on. I just don't understand how a man who loves his wife and has a close relationship with her can go home every night and look her in the eye while conducting an affair behind her back. I can see how men who are estranged from their spouse go looking for affection elsewhere (although that is despicable in and of itself), but for a man who loves his wife, to act lovingly while screwing another woman on the side is a man who is the epitome of a scumbag. Sorry if I'm not being helpful or if I'm rambling. Those types who have loving wives, wonderful healthy marriages, but throw it away out of weakness or selfishness just blow me away.

[never be the same]

You are exactly right. And those are the things I am struggling with. Our sex life had slowed down a little, but we never went more than a few weeks without it, ever! And this was at a time when I had two teenagers, a 1 1/2 year old baby, and working two jobs. He says he was feeling like I wasn't "that into him" because I was tired alot and the sex had slowed down. So when this OW came on so aggressively, he just got wrapped up in being wanted so badly, says nobody has ever come on to him in that way. But we did hava a great relationship. And its not like we went months, or even several weeks without sex.

 

He also says he sees now that I was stressed and exhausted, and that he did nothing to help me through any of it, that what he did was not necessary, even though he thought he needed it at the time.

 

What I think is that he convinced himself that things with us were worse than they actually were, to kind of give himself an excuse to do what he did.

 

But, I struggle with exactly what you said. Over the course of the 6 months, they were together 8 times. How the hell could he come home all those times and look me in the eye as though nothing happened. I could NEVER have done that! I'm having a hard time getting past that part.

[samsungxoxo]

If you literally walked in on them having sex, I think that's the ultimate humiliation. It's one thing to hear about it but see it's something different. If you still want to work it out then I feel for you.

 

There's a lot to work out: the cheating itself, the continued lies (trickle truth), your health, not making it obvious for the kids and the visual images. Counseling alone isn't enough unless you both put a lot of effort into this.

 

The sad part is he was never going to end it (nor even confess to it) and only did so because you caught him. I would be careful if I were you. I heard some cheaters either fake tears or if it's real, they can do it again years later but be more sneaky about it next time.

[shayla]

My ex could cry at will. He was a drama major, okay? He could make you believe anything he wanted you to. But once I found out about him, I realized that all his "remorse" was over him getting caught, and his grief at having to put down the cake he had been eating. Getting caught was a huge blow to his ego.

 

I would not get caught up in his shows of remorse. You have to do what is right for you and only you. Good luck.

[Triskle]

The truth is, he wanted his cake and eat it too. How can anyone of us exclaim after putting together a life with someone that they never realized one thing or another! I'm really not sorry to say that you may be wasting your time and undermining your self-esteem! If he is honest, he has a lot to prove, so stop proving it for him! Now, that being said, stop denying your self of security and peace! You'll have none of it by thinking of him, or the situation! After all you were fine before him, you'll be just as fine after him. Your only this way during him! Please remember once a pickle, can never get back to being a cucumber. Good luck to you, the best revenge is to live well and be happy.........

[samsungxoxo]

In addition that's really a bad example for the kids. If my father ever cheated and my mother took him back, I would have lost respect for her as that's now how I would like to be treated.

[never be the same]

Well I see two sides to that. i feel the same, but there is also something to be said about showing your children forgiveness. If this truly was a mistake (i do nt believe that he set out to hurt me or end our marriage), then what about showing the kids that love is love. you love someone when they're at their best, and you love them at their worst. I also want to show them that married is married. You're not only married when things are good, you're married when they suck too.

 

My H has told me that he felt guilt through all of it, but the way he was able to overcome the guilt was to say "she will never know" and "well I already did it so whats one more time." Of course he sees (or he says he does) the flaws in that reasoning now, but at the time thats how he justified it.

 

Another thing, everyone that knows us, my family, his family, were all schocked by this. nobody could beleive it. They all said the same thing "You have to be kidding." Everyone is just shocked. Same reaction from all of them, utter disbelief. Also tends to make me think that, if he's not a complete psycho, then maybe it is what he said it was. he got caught up in it and now sees how awful it was. If that's true, then maybe he does deserve forgiveness???

 

But, I say all that and there's that voice again telling me to stop being an idiot and accept the fact that I married and a**hole and move on

[KathyM]

Well I see two sides to that. i feel the same, but there is also something to be said about showing your children forgiveness. If this truly was a mistake (i do nt believe that he set out to hurt me or end our marriage), then what about showing the kids that love is love. you love someone when they're at their best, and you love them at their worst. I also want to show them that married is married. You're not only married when things are good, you're married when they suck too.

 

My H has told me that he felt guilt through all of it, but the way he was able to overcome the guilt was to say "she will never know" and "well I already did it so whats one more time." Of course he sees (or he says he does) the flaws in that reasoning now, but at the time thats how he justified it.

 

Another thing, everyone that knows us, my family, his family, were all schocked by this. nobody could beleive it. They all said the same thing "You have to be kidding." Everyone is just shocked. Same reaction from all of them, utter disbelief. Also tends to make me think that, if he's not a complete psycho, then maybe it is what he said it was. he got caught up in it and now sees how awful it was. If that's true, then maybe he does deserve forgiveness???

 

But, I say all that and there's that voice again telling me to stop being an idiot and accept the fact that I married and a**hole and move on

I'm a firm believer in forgiveness, and I do believe forgiving your spouse is the way for you to heal from this, but that does not mean that you have to stay with him. He has broken the covenant with you. He has done horrible damage to the marriage. He has ruined the trust, which is the foundation of your marriage. No one can hold it against you for leaving the marriage--not your kids--not anybody. Even God allows for divorce in the case of infidelity--the same God who hates divorce. Because it breaks the covenant. Your kids would see that their mother was hurt terribly, and won't put up with such a violation. But they can also see that you have made peace with your husband, have forgiven him, but you are choosing to live your life in a manner that shows you respect yourself and the sacrament of marriage and won't tolerate that it will be violated. You have nothing to fear about the message you are giving your children if you leave. On the other hand, if you truly feel that this was a once in a lifetime mistake, your husband is truly very remorseful, and you are convinced this will never happen again, and you still love him to the extent that you don't want to be without him, then you can certainly work on repairing your marriage and that will also be a good example to your children. Either way, the children will not think less of you. There is no right or wrong way for you to handle this. Only you can decide for yourself if this is a man who is genuinely remorseful, is someone you feel you can trust again, and if this betrayal is something you will be able to emotionally deal with and overcome. If, after doing a lot of soul searching, the answer to any of those three is a no, then I think you have your answer. But either way, your example to your children will be a good one.

[never be the same]

Your response was so kind, thank you. I have told my H that I have not made a definite decision and do not know if this is something I will ever be able to get past, and that is the absolute truth, and I have also explained that to my children. i did not, however, disparage my H to them. I explained that I did think it was a terrible mistake, and to please keep in mind that he was hurting too. For a while, me, the kids, his whole family, my whole family, didn't want to speak to him and I would imagine that he was quite alone and desperate (well deserved, but still). That seemed to register with the boys, and they have gotten better.

 

I did feel in the beginning that I had to make a decision right away and I'm not sure why? But now, and especially after reading what you said, i feel that I have alot more freedom than I realized, and i can take my time. I also think he will show me whether he's worthy of another chance over the next few months or years. I do take some comfort in the fact that it's my choice to stay or go, just like it was his choice to do what he did.

[blueskyday]

I've been where you are. Oh, boy, so difficult, and so many emotions!

 

First of all, his word is sh#t, so ask him to take a polygraph test. You need external validation of what he is saying. He MUST come 100% clean about everything for you to even consider staying.

 

I would also kick him out for a while so he can feel some pain over losing you. He can go to counseling and work out the reasons WHY he did what he did. It's a character fault!

 

Maybe your marriage was broken, or not good, and that's something that you two can work on, BUT his decision to cheat is on him. That was his failing. Period. He must figure out why he took a sledgehammer to your marriage, and to your trust.

 

I agree with the poster who said that if your husband is a selfish entitled guy who simply wants to cheat, you have a bigger battle on your hands than a guy who gave in due to weak character and a broken relationship that broke his spirit and made him vulnerable.

 

There is a great book called After the Affair. I highly recommend it! It details what needs to happen for YOU to heal, and what you should be looking for in his behavior to make sure he is doing everything possible to earn your trust back...and what earning your trust back looks like.

 

Hugs! And don't worry one bit about the other woman and what she looked like. I did the same thing, and it drove me nuts! It doesn't matter. You will end up tearing yourself up. Simply say to yourself that she is a whore because she is.

 

Your husband may work his way back into your heart, but he has a lot of work to do. You have many options, and you must do this on YOUR timeline, not his. He's done with his selfish ways. You come first now.

[KathyM]

Your response was so kind, thank you. I have told my H that I have not made a definite decision and do not know if this is something I will ever be able to get past, and that is the absolute truth, and I have also explained that to my children. i did not, however, disparage my H to them. I explained that I did think it was a terrible mistake, and to please keep in mind that he was hurting too. For a while, me, the kids, his whole family, my whole family, didn't want to speak to him and I would imagine that he was quite alone and desperate (well deserved, but still). That seemed to register with the boys, and they have gotten better.

 

I did feel in the beginning that I had to make a decision right away and I'm not sure why? But now, and especially after reading what you said, i feel that I have alot more freedom than I realized, and i can take my time. I also think he will show me whether he's worthy of another chance over the next few months or years. I do take some comfort in the fact that it's my choice to stay or go, just like it was his choice to do what he did.

Definately take your time, and give it a lot of thought, before making a decision, if you have any ambivalence about it either way. There is no rush to make a decision. In the meantime, you may want to talk to a counselor or clergy person (if you are so inclined), to help you sort through your feelings and emotions about this, and that may help you to come to a decision. Take care.

[dasein]

Very sorry you have had to go through this. I don't think kicking him out for awhile is the way to go, if you were going to do that, maybe right after you found out. Also mixed on the polygraph, in fact I think it would end up making you feel worse. Am unsure you could even get a valid reading based on the questions you would want answered. You could get nitty gritty details, which would be hurtful, but not so much the types of emotionally answered questions to things like "was it just sex," "who started it," "did you love her." The potential for false readings one way or the other is extremely high in those areas. It could be useful in making sure the affair has actually ceased if that is still an issue for you.

 

The mitigating factors are as follows, and only you know the extent you believe them and weight them:

 

1. He immediately quit his job and moved on from the affair. This is a good sign of sincerity in my experience. He didn't gaslight or selfishly remain in the fog, he moved on instantly.

 

2. He was targeted by a very aggressive woman, and was not the instigator.

 

3. He has shown genuine remorse for his actions.

 

No one here can tell you whether those outweigh your feelings, or whether those things can help you move past, only you can. Just wanted to set them out as the mitigating factors of his behavior.

 

Since every time I've been cheated on has included lots of humiliating gaslighting, historical reconstruction and fogging, and remorse obviously only in their getting caught, I can't say for sure how I'd react to a cheater whom I loved who was forthright, terminated immediately and was truly remorseful. Good luck whatever you decide.

[TaraMaiden]

The mitigating factors are as follows, and only you know the extent you believe them and weight them:

 

1. He immediately quit his job and moved on from the affair. This is a good sign of sincerity in my experience. He didn't gaslight or selfishly remain in the fog, he moved on instantly.

he really had no choice, it was practically the only option open to him, givn that his lover was so aggressive compelling and demanding....

 

2. He was targeted by a very aggressive woman, and was not the instigator.

Yes, of course. she forced him at gunpoint, every time for 6 months, and chained him to the bed... he of course, simply couldn't stop himself and had no option but to keep boshing her....

 

3. He has shown genuine remorse for his actions.

And you know they are genuine... how? Crocodile tears are easy to shed - even his wife, who has known him a lot longer, has her doubts, so what makes you believe, as a mere reader, that his remorse is genuine?

 

No one here can tell you whether those outweigh your feelings, or whether those things can help you move past, only you can. Just wanted to set them out as the mitigating factors of his behavior.

you're right - they would be mitigating factors if they were wateright, but unfortunately, they are largely hypothesis.

 

Since every time I've been cheated on has included lots of humiliating gaslighting, historical reconstruction and fogging, and remorse obviously only in their getting caught, I can't say for sure how I'd react to a cheater whom I loved who was forthright, terminated immediately and was truly remorseful.

This statement is so biased it's breathtaking.

every time you've been cheated on, it was by vile remorseless women who never offered any kind of apology, explanation or 'mitigating factors' - but because this is a guy who was "forthright" (he didn't gladly offer the information!) "truly remorseful" (notice how his remorse came on when she discovered it, it didn't end because he felt bad about it - somewhat like the 'remorse 'obviously only in their getting caught' as in your experiences...) obviously she should do everything she could to forgive him and rebuild the marriage, because he was the victim of a relentless predator who stopped at nothing to get him to screw her completely against his will for 6 months.

 

there is such bias in your comments I really can't think anyone would take them seriously... even in a situation where the fault and blame lie so obviously at the man's feet, you still side with the husband on 'mitigating factors'?

 

Actually, if you look at the substance of your comments, you actually make him sound like a poor, weak, feeble spineless sap who was cajoled, coerced and obligated into an affair by a strong, independent, powerful and aggressive woman.

Which the OP has not indicated to be the case, at all, anywhere.

[Professor X]

OP, can you provide for yourself and the kids in case you get a divorce? Don't count on the Alimony.

[never be the same]

I can provide for myself and the kids, although we would not be able to keep the house, we would prob end up in an apartment somewhere and money would be tight, but I could do it. But it's tough even thinking of putting them through that, to take them out of the home they grew up in with a nice yard in a nice neighborhood and cram them into a small 2 bedroom apartment.

 

As far as alimony, it would not be an option. He took a HUGE paycut when he quit his job, he would barely be able to pay child support if he had to live on his own.

[dasein]

there is such bias in your comments I really can't think anyone would take them seriously...

 

Your response to my post is what is biased, cram full of things I didn't say or imply, your tone is over the top obnoxious and condescending, and I stand by everything I posted. Nothing at all in my post suggests any bias whatsoever towards OP's cheater or male cheaters. The facts I posted about cheating I have experienced are not gender specific cheating behavior, but conducted by both genders regularly. OP is certainly free to decide for herself. Go look for someone else to bait, not playing today.