Am I shallow?

[Imajerk17]

I don't think somedude is especially shallow, just really frustrated. Right now he wants to get a sexual release.

 

His first big problem is that he does come across as lacking empathy, at least on here, when he says things like how he'd like a woman to be his girlfriend for a month and that's it. No understanding about how the other party might feel about that arrangement. It shows a lack of understanding about how women work, That's like a woman saying that she wants a guy to take her out and buy her dinners for a month so that she feels pretty again so she can date the alpha dudes she so craves.

 

His other big problem is that his lifestyle just doesn't get him to meet many women. He doesn't have hobbies where there are a lot of women around, he doesn't do online dating, and he won't cold-approach. He also doesn't seem to have any passions (besides getting a girl). So his strategy, if you will, is to hit on the occasional new girl who joins his work. This works out to what, maybe a few girls a year?

 

 

Truly? I think the best thing that somedude could do for himself is leave the forum for a few weeks. Come up with a strategy and put it into action. Meanwhile there's just too many people telling him too many things.

[ThaWholigan]

He just called people with a height preference 'stupid' so if he denied doing it, he also just did it. And he's done it before as well, for sure.

I've seen too. This was a pretty pointless thread in the grand scheme of things, much like the men with lots of options thread.

 

I think he really needs to think about things on a properly introspective level. He doesn't want to though so that's his prerogative. I try to moderate my approach without seeming like I'm picking on him, as I think we all do, but it's going nowhere. I think Elswyth is on the money with the ignore. I like Somedude, but he either doesn't listen, or doesn't understand, or try to. It's a shame, he would be so much better off.

[LittlePrince]

In my experience women aren't any more interested in commitment than men so there are plenty of women out there who would want short term nsa. This changes only if a woman has particular difficulty in securing anyone or they get a guy in the top 5-10% interested in them who they then want to monopolize since they hooked a winner who'd look good on their mantle and are having difficulty letting go.

 

The idea you'll get a SO from a cold approach is ridiculous. I've met no one who has ever found their mate that way. Usually there was something connecting them. Also OLD couldn't be a worse place to meet someone especially if one is male seeking a female.

 

You can't strategize true love if that is what he is looking for.

[ThaWholigan]

In my experience women aren't any more interested in commitment than men so there are plenty of women out there who would want short term nsa. This changes only if a woman has particular difficulty in securing anyone or they get a guy in the top 5-10% interested in them who they then want to monopolize since they hooked a winner who'd look good on their mantle and are having difficulty letting go.

 

The idea you'll get a SO from a cold approach is ridiculous. I've met no one who has ever found their mate that way. Usually there was something connecting them. Also OLD couldn't be a worse place to meet someone especially if one is male seeking a female.

 

You can't strategize true love if that is what he is looking for.

If you don't have a social circle, cold approach is your only option. Same with OLD.

 

True love will be hard to find if you don't love yourself first.

[Imajerk17]

I've seen too. This was a pretty pointless thread in the grand scheme of things, much like the men with lots of options thread.

 

 

I totally agree.

 

I have physical preferences too. Some of them are rather arbitrary and eliminate some terrific people. So does most everyone else, including the "deep" people (whatever THAT means).

 

The difference is that I make a point of deserving what I want. I like athletic women, so I work out myself. I also learned how to talk to women--from taking advice but also from putting myself out there.

 

I don't think I'm unique. I'm sure the more mature posters know exactly what I am talking about.

[ThaWholigan]

I totally agree.

 

I have physical preferences too. Some of them are rather arbitrary and eliminate some terrific people. So does most everyone else, including the "deep" people (whatever THAT means).

 

The difference is that I make a point of deserving what I want. I like athletic women, so I work out myself. I also learned how to talk to women--from taking advice but also from putting myself out there.

 

I don't think I'm unique. I'm sure the more mature posters know exactly what I am talking about.

Agree with all of this. I'm still developing and I feel I will reach a prime of sorts slightly later than most people. I've had to put myself out there a lot, and I'm going to have to do a LOT more if I want to achieve the things I want, and date the women I would like to date. It's all about action and discipline. Oh, and fun too .

[Els]

Agree with all of this. I'm still developing and I feel I will reach a prime of sorts slightly later than most people. I've had to put myself out there a lot, and I'm going to have to do a LOT more if I want to achieve the things I want, and date the women I would like to date. It's all about action and discipline. Oh, and fun too .

 

Attaboy.

[Imajerk17]

In my experience women aren't any more interested in commitment than men so there are plenty of women out there who would want short term nsa. This changes only if a woman has particular difficulty in securing anyone or they get a guy in the top 5-10% interested in them who they then want to monopolize since they hooked a winner who'd look good on their mantle and are having difficulty letting go.

 

The idea you'll get a SO from a cold approach is ridiculous. I've met no one who has ever found their mate that way. Usually there was something connecting them. Also OLD couldn't be a worse place to meet someone especially if one is male seeking a female.

 

You can't strategize true love if that is what he is looking for.

 

This is wrong in a few different ways.

 

(1) I know women looking just to hook-up, but I don't know women looking to be someone's girlfriend for a month to teach a guy until he is ready to move on. Women who are looking for nsa sex don't want it with someone who is desperate to hook-up in any case.

 

(2) Well, OLD is bad IF you don't know what to do pardner. I've met a lot of women by doing OLD. In fact, I am now dating two women, one I met via OLD, and another I met via cold approach. During the day-time and not in a bar no less!

 

(3) If your lifestyle gets you to meet only a few women a year, you're screwed (not laid), unless you get really lucky. You need to do something else, yes, a strategy.

[Ursa]

Reaching isn't the problem, it's how I feel when I am asked. I don't like feeling bigger than men, so when a man asks me to reach for something, I feel like a giant and I feel very uncomfortable. Men are supposed to be bigger than women.

 

I would imagine it's the same when a woman tells a man "oh hey, i dropped by keys between the seats, can you grab it for me? you have small hands". I'm sure a man wouldn't really feel good hearing that.

 

 

I'm taller than you, and I honestly feel this is a choice that you're making. It never bothered me to be tall, and I never had particular trouble dating, because I chose that path. Why follow the herd and sit around baaing discontentedly because of having seen too many movies where the male lead is taller than the female lead? Be your own brand of female lead. To some degree, who you are attracted to is outside of your control--but how you frame situations in your head and choose to react to them is within your control.

 

I've dated men from 5'7" to 6'9" and I've never questioned their masculinity or my own femininity--not because of something like our heights in relation to each other.

[ThaWholigan]

I'm taller than you, and I honestly feel this is a choice that you're making. It never bothered me to be tall, and I never had particular trouble dating, because I chose that path. Why follow the herd and sit around baaing discontentedly because of having seen too many movies where the male lead is taller than the female lead? Be your own brand of female lead. To some degree, who you are attracted to is outside of your control--but how you frame situations in your head and choose to react to them is within your control.

 

I've dated men from 5'7" to 6'9" and I've never questioned their masculinity or my own femininity--not because of something like our heights in relation to each other.

Are you a 6 footer??

[make me believe]

Oh for gods sake. The PC-police on LS gets so over the top sometimes.

 

Somedude, your original example of losing some attraction for the girl you liked when she got a boy haircut is totally understandable. Most women cannot pull off short hair, even if they think they can. Add to that the fact that long hair is one of your big attraction points, and who can blame you for being disappointed when she cut hers? I have long hair, my husband LOVES long hair, and I KNOW he would be super disappointed if I cut it. I am not offended by that, nor do I think it makes him "shallow."

 

I think that it's your lack of dating experience that makes you focus so much on the physical. You haven't really had the chance to experience the other aspects of a relationship, so it's more difficult for you to say you want x, y, and z emotional/personality/value-related characteristics in a woman. It took me a few boyfriends before I finally figured out the most important non-physical characteristics to me. I think that's normal.

[Ursa]

Are you a 6 footer??

 

 

Six foot in my bare feet

[zengirl]

Somedude, your original example of losing some attraction for the girl you liked when she got a boy haircut is totally understandable. Most women cannot pull off short hair, even if they think they can.

 

For the sake of accuracy in discussion I will point out: She got a slightly above shoulder-length haircut, which is not a 'boy' haircut by any means (nor are many shorter female haircuts styles which many boys would pull off -- some are, surely).

 

At any rate, I understand many men like long hair. Some would even be bummed if their SO's cut their hair. Personally, I consider such men shallow to the point of being undateable (for me, I mean, when I was single -- not saying everyone should feel that way). Seriously. I'm not saying all women do, but I know other women who feel as I do and my sole point is that women who are not fixated on the physical are MORE likely to feel that a man who is presents a dealbreaker.

[ThaWholigan]

Six foot in my bare feet

Tall women are sexy .

[Star Gazer]

If this thread had been started by ES and had a few women saying the things a few here are saying, TBF would have come out of the woodworks to call you all bullies.

 

The consensus seems to be that SD is not shallow but lacking in experience. Can we call it a day now? Or must you all continue to bash him?

[zengirl]

If this thread had been started by ES and had a few women saying the things a few here are saying, TBF would have come out of the woodworks to call you all bullies.

 

The consensus seems to be that SD is not shallow but lacking in experience. Can we call it a day now? Or must you all continue to bash him?

 

And I would've disagreed with her assessment of bullying, as would you. So why is it bashing if it's SD and he asked for opinions on it? Why is this thread about ES or TBF at all to you? Are you asserting that any criticism of a member's preferences is bullying? That doesn't seem like you, SG. fwiw, I also disagree with the idea there is any kind of consensus in this thread. I imagine it's because superficiality is a spectrum and those similarly or more superficial than SD wouldn't see him as such. That makes sense and is how life works. Many women will not be offended by his level superficiality, but they also are likely to have superficial requirements (re: height, income, abs, etc) themselves. You have such requirements, at least height and income, don't you, SG?

Edited May 8, 2012 by zengirl

[ThaWholigan]

If this thread had been started by ES and had a few women saying the things a few here are saying, TBF would have come out of the woodworks to call you all bullies.

 

The consensus seems to be that SD is not shallow but lacking in experience. Can we call it a day now? Or must you all continue to bash him?

Nobody is bashing him. I don't even think his alleged shallowness is the problem. Honestly, are people really that sensitive?

[FitChick]

People have "unrealistic" standards only because you see them an unrealistic. Clearly if this person expects these things its because they exist.

 

If I had listened to people who told me my aspirations (not just dating) were unrealistic, I'd still be a virgin living at home.

 

I really don't understand why people keep trying to change somedude or verhrzn's minds. They will never change because of their beliefs, no matter how long or loud you speak or say the same thing twenty different ways and give hundreds of examples. Save your breath and help others on the forum who actually want to change. Wouldn't that be more productive?

[zengirl]

If I had listened to people who told me my aspirations (not just dating) were unrealistic, I'd still be a virgin living at home.

 

I really don't understand why people keep trying to change somedude or verhrzn's minds. They will never change because of their beliefs, no matter how long or loud you speak or say the same thing twenty different ways and give hundreds of examples. Save your breath and help others on the forum who actually want to change. Wouldn't that be more productive?

 

Of course it would be. The Southerner in me just can't resist a seemingly 'lost' cause (I don't really think anyone is a lost cause but some are easier to get through to than others), I think sometimes. I was a lost cause once. *shrug* Not here, but somewhere, and I changed my beliefs. It happens, and people have success.

[EasyHeart]

For the sake of accuracy in discussion I will point out: She got a slightly above shoulder-length haircut, which is not a 'boy' haircut by any means (nor are many shorter female haircuts styles which many boys would pull off -- some are, surely).

 

At any rate, I understand many men like long hair. Some would even be bummed if their SO's cut their hair. Personally, I consider such men shallow to the point of being undateable (for me, I mean, when I was single -- not saying everyone should feel that way). Seriously. I'm not saying all women do, but I know other women who feel as I do and my sole point is that women who are not fixated on the physical are MORE likely to feel that a man who is presents a dealbreaker.

I'm one of those men who usually likes long hair. I've dated women who got their hair cut shorter and it never changed my opinion of their attractiveness. I might think she looks better in long hair in the same way I might think she looks better in a dress than a suit, but it didn't make me suddenly think she wasn't pretty.

 

And it's relative, too. I usually like long hair, but the prettiest woman I ever met had a very short ("boy"-type) haircut.

[somedude81]

No you are not shallow. The issue is that you don't have the type of intelligence that would help you with the nuances of relationships and mate-seeking.

I know that. It's why I'm unable to connect with women on a deeper level and make them want to be more than just friends with me. I hate the feeling of not knowing the right things to say. The whole thing is very frustrating.

You are simply unable to comprehend other people's point of view and you are not capable of introspection.

I think you're wrong on both counts.

 

I don't know whether it's emotional intelligence you are lacking, but there is definitely something. Reading your posts is like reading some blurb from another species. I don't mean it as an insult, it's just there is this huge gap between yourself and your targets.

What do you mean a gap?

Which sounds to me like being Cuban = less attractive, in your mind. And since you've said many times you'd rather date a white girl (which I assume has to do with thinking they're more physically ideal, since that's what you think of yourself), I assumed that you weren't trying to date nonwhite girls. Sorry for that.

That's fine.

 

Basically, I've never met another Cuban girl that wasn't in my family. And I'm as much Mexican as I am Chinese. Which is to say, not at all.

But blaming your attractiveness on how much Cuban DNA you have...ugh, what is that? If not shallow, then I'd at least call it a gigantic red herring.

 

I think you just pick on certain things about yourself that it's easier to hate because you have no control over them.

I strongly believe that being half Cuban has made things siginificantly harder on me than if I were full white. I've gone over the details in another thread I made a while ago.

 

You've been encouraged many times to seek individual therapy, and always have a reason why not to do it, basically amounting to "if I only had a girlfriend, I wouldn't need therapy at all." Since you've offered all of us here on LS the chance to weigh in on this, I will only say that I disagree. And I say this with empathy - you seem really really troubled about yourself, and yet you resist our (admittedly primarily amateur) attempts to get you to look deeper on those things. You're stuck on what you're stuck on.

And I've already seen several therapists. I was basically in therapy from 23-28.

 

Are you shallow? Well...

 

Short answer: yes with an if.

 

Long answer: no... with a but.

 

Basically you have listed a lot of physical attributes but not all that many personality based ones. Which is fine if that's your thing. For me however, while the physical attraction is very important, I also wouldn't be able to get along with someone who was boring or uncharismatic even if they were hot. Would you date and be in a relationship and possibly marry a girl who absolutely fit your ideal and was the hottest girl in the world HOWEVER she was a major psycho b*tch who caused you a lot of emotional suffering and was just a complete bore to talk to and be with? However she is the hottest chick in the world and she wants you baaaad baby. She doesn't care about your heigh, in fact, she loves it! I am curious to see your reply to this.

 

So no, you're not shallow, everyone has their preferences. However those may exclude you from girls who might otherwise be good relationship candidates (and that's cool too... no point being with someone you're not attracted to).

I could easily have a long list of personality traits. But as I said before several times, none of the personality things matter if I'm not attracted to her. I feel that it would be best to keep my personality requirements fairly empty until I can start actually dating and then I'll get a better idea of what really matters.

No, it doesn't. Calling a woman "stupid" for having a preference that doesn't include you makes you a hypocrite, when you are accepting of your own preferences.

 

What is so freaking difficult to understand about that??

There is a girl on this forum who is 5 feet tall and thinks that the ideal man for her is 5'11+. In my opinion, that is completely stupid. On the other hand, I'm completely fine with 5'10 TopShelfStandards wanting a man 6'2+. Can you tell the difference between the two women?

 

Also, if it wasn't obvious, I have a problem with women my height or shorter preferring average higher men or taller, simply because that excludes me. I want a woman who is roughly my height. And I think it's stupid when those girls only want guys who are 4+ inches taller then they are. In my opinion, no woman who is 5'4 or shorter should turn me down because of my height.

 

If a woman is 5'6 or taller, fine she's allowed to require a guy to be average height. Even though that really sucks for me.

 

One thing this thread has done to me is make me want to talk to D, who is 5'8 and apologize to her, for me being short. I have this sick feeling that if I were taller than her, she would have been fine dating me

His first big problem is that he does come across as lacking empathy, at least on here, when he says things like how he'd like a woman to be his girlfriend for a month and that's it. No understanding about how the other party might feel about that arrangement. It shows a lack of understanding about how women work, That's like a woman saying that she wants a guy to take her out and buy her dinners for a month so that she feels pretty again so she can date the alpha dudes she so craves.

I'd say I'd be fine if the relationship only lasts a month. Meaning she dumps me after a month as long as there was sex involved. I would never end a relationship so soon myself.

 

I also mean to say that even getting just a month's work of relationship experience and sex, would do amazing things for my self-esteem and confidence. Sure it would be even better if the R could last longer.

[zengirl]

I'm one of those men who usually likes long hair. I've dated women who got their hair cut shorter and it never changed my opinion of their attractiveness. I might think she looks better in long hair in the same way I might think she looks better in a dress than a suit, but it didn't make me suddenly think she wasn't pretty.

 

And it's relative, too. I usually like long hair, but the prettiest woman I ever met had a very short ("boy"-type) haircut.

 

"Likes" isn't what I meant was undateable. The ones who'd be legitimately bummed if they cut their hair shorter and would actually lose quantifiable attraction are the ones. I meant to clarify between those 2 groups -- sorry if I wrote it oddly.

 

fwiw, Hubby likes long hair. I generally keep my hair long but cut it short last summer (it's pretty much long again now b/c it grows super fast) right after we started dating, and it didn't seem to phase him. A preference doesn't bother me --- someone who is literally "bummed" about something I do to my hair would.

[EasyHeart]

"Likes" isn't what I meant was undateable. The ones who'd be legitimately bummed if they cut their hair shorter and would actually lose quantifiable attraction are the ones. I meant to clarify between those 2 groups -- sorry if I wrote it oddly.

 

fwiw, Hubby likes long hair. I generally keep my hair long but cut it short last summer (it's pretty much long again now b/c it grows super fast) right after we started dating, and it didn't seem to phase him. A preference doesn't bother me --- someone who is literally "bummed" about something I do to my hair would.

I was agreeing with you.

 

It's only in the political threads where I usually have to disagree with everything you say (because you're WRONG so much!!!)

[udolipixie]

In my opinion, no woman who is 5'4 or shorter should turn me down because of my height.

 

If a woman is 5'6 or taller, fine she's allowed to require a guy to be average height. Even though that really sucks for me.

 

I think this is where most say you're a hypocrite as it seems your view is that it's okay for you to want average and exclude others but it's not okay for gals to want average if it excludes you.

 

Interesting that to you a gal has to be above average height in order for requiring an average height guy to be fine.

[LittlePrince]

When I see a woman under 5' with a man over 6' circus music plays in the back of my mind. Am I a bad person?