Men have so many options and I'm sick of it!*

[Els]

Yeah, you're all insane. Or maybe I have super powers that render my photos very different from real life.

 

Did y'all miss the part about how the underemployed, overweight pot smoker dumped me for someone hotter?...

 

Hell, MOST of the guys I've dated have made less money than me, have had less hobbies than me, and have been a little heavy in the middle section, and ALL of them ended up with gorgeous, super-sweet, nice women, after the guys decided they could do better than me.

 

Seriously, Iris, what will it take to convince them?

 

As I have told you before, the most likely reason this is happening is because your extreme negativity and bottomless self esteem turns away any men of quality who want an equal partner, and attracts the guys who just want an easy lay and thus like girls with horrible self esteem.

 

I'm not sure why you persist in this cycle. You insist you look horrible, people ask for your pictures, you post them, they say you look fine, you interpret that as them calling you a liar and invalidating your experiences. Nobody is calling you a liar. There are plenty of gorgeous women who have been treated like crap by crappy guys who left them for hotter women. Your appearance has NOTHING to do with the crappy guys you are with - your choices and personality have plenty to do with it.

[verhrzn]

What will it take to convince you that you might just be wrong?

 

Meeting a guy who is single and isn't in some way a player or desperate. Not getting dumped for someone hotter over and over...

 

 

V-

Maybe you are so sure that a man is going to dump you for someone "better" that you sabotage it.

 

Ya know, that's the real tender thing. In that last one, I tried. I tried to my utmost power to be positive and proactive and hopeful. The sheer irony that I picked a notorious commitment-phobe player (unknown at the time) is not lost on me, but still. I went in telling myself to trust, and to squash down my negative impulses.

 

And it STILL happened. Gut-wrenching, what that is.

 

You have hooked up with some disappointing men. But I don't think all men are like that, V. Lots, yes. But all, no.

 

Yes, men like to look at hot women. It is a hard truth to accept for many. But men can and do appreciate our other qualities, too.

 

Oh I totally believe that. It's why I've never gotten why I'm labeled a "man-hater." I know lots of great guys; loyal, compassionate, non-shallow. The thing is, they're all taken. I believe that there are a good many good-to-great men in the world... just none of them are single.

[somedude81]

Yeah, you're all insane. Or maybe I have super powers that render my photos very different from real life.

 

Did y'all miss the part about how the underemployed, overweight pot smoker dumped me for someone hotter?...

 

Hell, MOST of the guys I've dated have made less money than me, have had less hobbies than me, and have been a little heavy in the middle section, and ALL of them ended up with gorgeous, super-sweet, nice women, after the guys decided they could do better than me.

 

Seriously, Iris, what will it take to convince them?

It's your attitude.

 

There is no way a guy can put up with so much negativity for long.

 

You've said that the guys you've dated dumped you because they thought you were ugly or called you ugly right?

 

Did you have a fight that went something like this

 

V: Mid conversation "It's because you think I'm ugly right?!"

Soon to be X: " Yeah, fine then, you are ugly" (Even though he doesn't mean it at all, but he's just gotten fed up with you repeatedly saying how ugly you are)

 

The thing is, if you keep saying something about yourself, eventually people are going to agree with you, even if they don't believe it.

[Leigh 87]

I am not the best looking guy, I would give myself a solid 7. But I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that confidence, attitude, style, and grouping/friend circle, goes a long way. I have very little trouble meeting and talking to woman, however finding a QUALITY lady to date is a totally different story.

 

I would send my pic for anyone to judge for themselves.

 

 

I agree. I am about a solid 7, and I have no trouble getting or meeting guys. I do not even have a known social circle as yet, since moving cities. however, I am very nice and positive, smile a lot, and despite bad body image ( which I will never talk about, besides on bad days to my boyfriend/best friend).

 

I always say - being a lovely person goes a long way.

[jlola]

You look fine. I think you look like the "girl next door" which most men find attractive.

 

I rarely see the situation you speak of unless the men have money. But I am sure they do exist. I have seen women who are barely average get very rich men. The difference between those average women and other average ones is confidence.

 

Have you seen Hugh Jackman's wife? Viggo Mortenssen's 1st wife?Patrick Dempsey's 1st and second wife? and a few other wives or very rich men? Some are "very average" But I am sure they had something to attract these men. I think those women also aimed high.

 

I would rather be alone, than to put up with some chubby low income pot smoker. Do you ever wonder what is wrong with the women who flock to this guy? I mean how can any women settle for so little just to have man? The same way I would ask a man who falls in love with a crazy woman and just has to play her Knight in shinning armor ,while allowing her to ruin his life . If having a woman is worth all of this pain.

[threebyfate]

One of the most annoying issues on LS. Forget all this acquisition b/s. This is exactly why some of you can't get partners. You don't perceive people as human beings. They're just objects to be acquired.

[Leigh 87]

This is important info, guys. Study it.

 

 

 

Ha! This made me laugh because it proved my point. You generally go for girls better looking than you. I'm a solid 8 and consistently go for guys who are 4-6. Looks aren't that important to many women. Being attracted to a man is, and that develops in ways beyond the physical.

 

 

 

 

I do not understand. Your a solid 8, go for average or less attractive men, and cannot get ANY guys that are that into you? Seriously?

 

I get that it DOES happen, but..... Are you sure your not a 6 or 7? lol. And, you sound intelligent enough through your writing style, so are you FUN, positive, a joy to be around?

 

I am about a 7 and can get guys, and I am not even working atm ( but have a career path mapped out and ambitions of course). So.... a jobless 7, with a very nice personality, can get guys.. why can't u?

 

I really think a lot of it comes down to being a nice person. A lot of guy want a really nice girl, who does not care what the guy thinks, in terms of sexual or romantic interests...

 

I am trying to think what your bad luck is attributes to... Surely a 6/10 guy, not that hot, notihng that remarkable about him, would be stoked with a nice, clever, fun 8/10?

 

I hate playing the " numbers" game, I am using it only to communicate with pepole who DO use numbers, to relate to them.

It could be your area dictates that guys are not that great....

 

You sound fine to me. It must just be my area ( is good for being able to meet decent guys; I am a non thin, average - slighytly above average girl ( 129 ish lbs, 5 ' 5, huge boobs though the rest of me is smaller) and have no trouble getting guys who think I am hot and worthy.

[Woggle]

All of these great taken men were single at one point in time.

[verhrzn]

I would rather be alone, than to put up with some chubby low income pot smoker. Do you ever wonder what is wrong with the women who flock to this guy? I mean how can any women settle for so little just to have man? The same way I would ask a man who falls in love with a crazy woman and just has to play her Knight in shinning armor ,while allowing her to ruin his life . If having a woman is worth all of this pain.

 

I think for both Iris and myself it's a combination of lack of options, and charm.

 

For all the negatives about my ex, he was very fun and very charming. He was also very good at hiding the less attractive aspects of himself, maybe even from himself. Sometimes the other person doesn't reveal who they really are until they have nothing to lose. For my ex, once he stopped caring, everything bad just came tumbling out.

 

I think lack of options IS a big one, though. If there ARE any good single men left, they're hiding.

[jlola]

meant to say very attractive men. Not rich men. Would rather date a nice guy who makes a decent living than a rich man who is dowdy AND thinks he is all that!!!

[gibson]

Vzn, I love how you pick and choose who / what you are going to respond too. Be brave and actually read, think and respond to the following:

 

You have one of the worst negative self images of any women poster I have read on here and that's before I even looked at your picture. Seeing how you look... I can't believe you talk about yourself the way you do.

 

Considering what little you described of your Ex... I am sure there was a lot of neglect, emotional and verbal abuse involved. If you were with him for a long period of time, the "damage" that is done is quite severe.

 

My advice

 

Get your self-esteem, self-worth, confidence, "mojo", identity, validation, approval, etc. from within.

 

Until you get "healthy" and fall in love with yourself again, you are not capable of having a "healthy" or loving relationship. More than likely, you will find / end up with someone just as bad or worse than your Ex.

 

There are thousands of books you could read that will help you with this and seeing a professional who specializes in this would prove to be most useful / life changing!

Edited May 7, 2012 by gibson

[Untouchable_Fire]

Iris,

 

It's harder to get commitment for the average woman today because they jump into bed so easily.

 

Think about it in terms of supply and demand with sex and commitment instead. Increase the supply of sex and the cost of commitment goes down like any other commodity.

 

Right now this is especially bad at colleges where 60%+ of all students are female. Make sense?

[Necromancer]

This is important info, guys. Study it.

 

 

 

Ha! This made me laugh because it proved my point. You generally go for girls better looking than you. I'm a solid 8 and consistently go for guys who are 4-6. Looks aren't that important to many women. Being attracted to a man is, and that develops in ways beyond the physical.

 

So you have never tried to aim 1 point out of your league?

 

Most people aim out of their league, But they are mostly in my look range.

 

Please stop this "Men are shallow but looks don´t matter much to us women"....i bet you are not trying to date 5 looking men unless your not 8 yourself.

 

i sat behind 3 women around the age 36-39 in my flight like a week ago and they where talking about how 1 of them saw this super handsome guy and knew that he was 100% the right man for her friend.....wth? she didn't even talk to him how could she know he was 100% the right man for her friend? beside for looks?

 

I see girls all the time say "looks don´t matter much to me but personality does" then i see them only flocking to good looking guys.......So only good looking guys have good personalities right?

 

U just don´t want to be seen as shallow......

[zengirl]

Iris,

 

It's harder to get commitment for the average woman today because they jump into bed so easily.

 

Think about it in terms of supply and demand with sex and commitment instead. Increase the supply of sex and the cost of commitment goes down like any other commodity.

 

Right now this is especially bad at colleges where 60%+ of all students are female. Make sense?

 

Re: the bolded

 

This may be true for men who would not really want commitment but would exchange it for sex, but does anyone really want THAT kind of commitment? Just given in exchange for the goal of attaining regular sex?

 

Most men I know who commit and are good boyfriend and husbands don't commit to 'get' sex and have noncommittal sexual options available to them, if they wish. Instead, they commit for the benefits commitment itself brings.

 

At any rate, I know women who will sleep with someone easily (for the sex itself), women who see sex as a means to catch a man (and either sleep with him quickly or hold off, based on this belief), and women who wait because they need to build trust and intimacy first and it's simply their style. The 1st and 3rd group seem to do better than the 2nd, who are viewing sex as a commodity, IME.

[thatone]

One of the most annoying issues on LS. Forget all this acquisition b/s. This is exactly why some of you can't get partners. You don't perceive people as human beings. They're just objects to be acquired.

 

really, i agree.

 

and that goes both ways, women NEED a husband/boyfriend and men NEED to get laid. people go on and on about those who seem needy being unattractive, that's it right there.

 

i spent this past weekend in south florida with some younger friends. i admittedly haven't been around the mid 20s crowd in a long time, it was somewhat eye opening to be honest.

 

preface by saying they're all typical mid 20s south florida men. all in good shape, attractive, funny. the women they hang around with are of comparable appearance, although attitudes and personalities vary with the females in their group of friends.

 

and as a comparison here's me, as best dressed as i can be at 35...

 

 

so yeah i'm the middle aged 30-40 pounds overweight guy (with the small hands and feet, women just HATE that don't they frustrated guys?)

 

but here's the thing. the group of women they hang around with are there to party with men they feel comfortable around. those women are unattainable, they're going to circulate amongst their circle of friends indefinitely until they grow up. the men have no need to look outside of that circle of friends either. at random points their turn with the next girl who needs to get laid will come up.

 

the only one in our group of ~10 who had any success talking to random women over the weekend (and there was no shortage, being cinco de mayo and we were in downtown bars the entire weekend) was me. there's guys all over these places who are tanned and ripped up. i was sitting next to them. fwiw i didn't pursue any of the women i did meet, i have a gf back home, was just harmless conversation and a little flirt here and there with whoever was at the next table for sport.

 

but the bottom line is does it matter that any of these people i was with qualify to be on that "singles map?" no. they aren't going to find anyone outside of that circle of ~20 friends that randomly hook up with each other. they have no need to.

 

to anyone who is actually single none of them might as well even exist. the men aren't going to put any effort into any other girl they meet, she'd have to join their circle of friends and throw herself at one of them in a drunken stupor. the dominant girls in that circle of friends are drama queens and attention whores, and the ones that aren't follow the ones that are because those are the ones who wind up with random male attention. no man in their right mind would deal with them for more than an hour or two after a bar closes.

 

i think the above is pretty typical for the young crowd these days. sad, but it is what it is.

 

so take the 'young' half of the singles map with a grain of salt as well.

 

i don't think it matters so much that there are concentrated numbers, it's more a matter of finding a culture you want to be in. don't get me wrong, those friends i spent last weekend with are happy with their culture. but anyone looking for relationships wouldn't be.

Edited May 7, 2012 by thatone

[verhrzn]

i don't think it matters so much that there are concentrated numbers, it's more a matter of finding a culture you want to be in. don't get me wrong, those friends i spent last weekend with are happy with their culture. but anyone looking for relationships wouldn't be.

 

That goes back to the original point of the thread: it doesn't matter how many single men there are. If most single men don't want commitment, then there are a lot less options for women who DO want a relationship to choose from.

 

Which is how certain types of guys, even though they are "losers," can get so many women. They play on the woman's vulnerability about wanting a relationship. He knows that he's her only option, while he could have a new girl inside a week.

 

There just aren't options for single women who want relationships past a certain age.

[Els]

That goes back to the original point of the thread: it doesn't matter how many single men there are. If most single men don't want commitment, then there are a lot less options for women who DO want a relationship to choose from.

 

Which is how certain types of guys, even though they are "losers," can get so many women. They play on the woman's vulnerability about wanting a relationship. He knows that he's her only option, while he could have a new girl inside a week.

 

There just aren't options for single women who want relationships past a certain age.

 

It really is not true that most single men don't want a relationship, V. :/ I would wager that there are as many men who want a R as women who do. Even if there is a perceived gap, it is really not as large as you think. Perhaps some men do start wanting it later, but what is wrong with that? They are still single and in the pool, even if they are a bit older.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I do think that most good men are taken. I have two male colleagues, both really attractive, smart, honest and genuinely nice guys. They are in their mid 30s now and both got married before age of 24. Their wives look a lot worse than you and me V.

 

It just seems that forward thinking women grabbed on to what was best on offer and the rest of "confused/finding ourselves" us ended up with nothing.

 

I actually took myself out of the dating game for majority of 20-30 so yeah, not a very smart move.

[verhrzn]

It really is not true that most single men don't want a relationship, V. :/ I would wager that there are as many men who want a R as women who do. Even if there is a perceived gap, it is really not as large as you think. Perhaps some men do start wanting it later, but what is wrong with that? They are still single and in the pool, even if they are a bit older.

 

Sure, they might want it when they're older... with younger women. Once I hit the over 30 mark, going by what female posters, male posters, and countless articles have told me, even 40 year old men aren't really interested.

 

But fine, let's say there are tons of single men who wants relationships. Still doesn't matter if they want relationships with perfect women. My single male friends all want relationships, but they want relationships with hot, nerdy, laid-back, smart, funny, "ultra femmy" women.

 

Having all the men in the world be single wouldn't help, if none of them want to date you.

[Els]

I've repeatedly hypothesized that the problem lies with the men you interact with both by virtue of your low self-esteem and personal choice, including the men in your platonic social circle. So far, nothing you have said has disproved that. I would dare say that a single, non-superficial, commitment-oriented, all-around decent guy is slightly rare, but so is a single woman with a healthy outlook on herself, men, and relationships IMO. Do you feel you are one of the latter?

 

Also, as for 'articles' and posters - those do not reflect reality, IMO. Especially on biased sources such as LS and women's mags. Articles are intended to be controversial to sell. I know plenty of women who met their spouse at an older age than you.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Elswyth

[iris219]

I do think that most good men are taken. I have two male colleagues, both really attractive, smart, honest and genuinely nice guys. They are in their mid 30s now and both got married before age of 24. Their wives look a lot worse than you and me V.

 

It just seems that forward thinking women grabbed on to what was best on offer and the rest of "confused/finding ourselves" us ended up with nothing.

 

I actually took myself out of the dating game for majority of 20-30 so yeah, not a very smart move.

 

I absolutely agree. I don't know any couples who met when they were both over 30 and got married for the first time.

 

I spent 20-30 in the wrong relationships, and now there is nothing left. I know will have to settle to be in a relationship, and I'm OK with that, but that option isn't even presenting itself.

 

I never thought I'd say this, but I would advise young girls who are interested in marriage and family to marry their high school or college BFs.

 

 

I've repeatedly told you that the problem lies with the men you interact with both by virtue of your low self-esteem and personal choice, including the men in your platonic social circle. I would dare say that a single, non-superficial, commitment-oriented, all-around decent guy is slightly rare, but so is a single woman with a healthy outlook on herself, men, and relationships IMO. Do you feel you are one of the latter?

 

I guess this is addressed to V, but I want to point out that I don't share most of V's perspectives, and yet I still can't find a man. V and I think differently, but we both have a lack of options. How can this be explained?

[Els]

I guess this is addressed to V, but I want to point out that I don't share most of V's perspectives, and yet I still can't find a man. V and I think differently, but we both have a lack of options. How can this be explained?

 

Well, I don't think everything can be explained. For example, some people have persistent headaches all their life, that the doctors can never find the cause of. On the other hand, if someone is having persistent headaches because of, say, overexposure to sun, or straining to read, or poor water intake, then it would behoove them to try and right all of the above before deciding that 'that's just the way it is'. In V's case, it's extremely straightforward to many of us that there is a huge possibility that her negativity is hindering her. That does not mean that it is necessarily the same for everyone else who is suffering from the same problems, nor does it make hypotheses as to the reasons for her troubles automatically wrong.

 

I don't know you enough based on your posts, to make a guess. There are a myriad of other factors that could be possible, from not going out enough to meet people, to having exceedingly high requirements, to sabotaging themselves via certain unattractive personality aspects. There could also be pure luck. That might be applicable in your case, if you can genuinely think of nothing else.

[verhrzn]

I've repeatedly hypothesized that the problem lies with the men you interact with both by virtue of your low self-esteem and personal choice, including the men in your platonic social circle. So far, nothing you have said has disproved that. I would dare say that a single, non-superficial, commitment-oriented, all-around decent guy is slightly rare, but so is a single woman with a healthy outlook on herself, men, and relationships IMO. Do you feel you are one of the latter?

 

Also, as for 'articles' and posters - those do not reflect reality, IMO. Especially on biased sources such as LS and women's mags. Articles are intended to be controversial to sell. I know plenty of women who met their spouse at an older age than you.

 

I'm never sure what you mean by "personal choice"... I don't really choose my friends or boyfriends. Anyone who is interested in me, I am interested in them. Any guy who shows even the vaguest interest, I pursue. Any person who seems friendly with me, I try to build a friendship with.

 

So how is it possible I'm "choosing" the wrong types, when I do not reject anyone? Isn't it more accurate to say, the "right" types just don't like me? (Because I am ugly with an average personality, as previously stated.)

 

Why could it be luck in Iris' case but not in mine?

[Woggle]

Where do you guys live where no couples meet and marry over 30. That is common place in the places I have lived.

[verhrzn]

Where do you guys live where no couples meet and marry over 30. That is common place in the places I have lived.

 

Midwest. Some of my friends aren't married yet, but all the girls are engaged. I do know a couple of guys who are already divorced that are my age (27.) Come to think of it, I see a LOT of divorced guys on Match.