verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 My story is very similar. But I felt compelled to marry this man at that age. I didn't feel compelled to get married (I knew it was an odd thing to do so young). I felt compelled to be with him. If you lived your 20s and didn't feel it, then you didn't feel it. You can't force it. Yeah, there was not a single guy who WANTED to marry me when I was younger anyway. I'm not quite sure how I could have "snatched one up." But I do get the constant message that dating sucks for us older ladies. Nothing to do about it.
xxoo Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Yeah, there was not a single guy who WANTED to marry me when I was younger anyway. I'm not quite sure how I could have "snatched one up." But I do get the constant message that dating sucks for us older ladies. Nothing to do about it. 27 isn't old enough to be an "older lady" 2
verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 You know, V, this thread has pretty much gone: V: I'm ugly with an average personality so I'll be foreveralone 10+ posters (I counted!!): V, you're NOT UGLY, you need to work on ________ V: ___________. I'm ugly with an average personality so I'll be foreveralone. What are you hoping to accomplish by this? If you care enough about listening to forum members' perspectives and obtaining feedback, to post here regularly about your problems, then listen to them. If you think the opinions of anonymous strangers are completely invalid and to be dismissed (which is the impression I'm getting here), why are you even posting? I don't know about men you've been in Rs with, V, but this is wearing on me really fast, and I swear patience is a virtue that I don't usually struggle with. As it's been said countless times before, I value opinions and feedback, but only when they make sense within my experiences. And the things people say, like "oh no it's not your looks," don't make sense. If it's not my looks, why has every single guy I've dated knocked down how I look? Why do guys never hit on me? etc. etc., said this before. What I hope to accomplish is a couple of things: 1) Some sympathy. Yes, I'd like some pity. I've always dreamed of having a husband and kids, and I'll never get to experience that. I am deeply sad and hopeless about losing that dream, and it'd be nice to have that acknowledged in a public way instead of "Oh well you didn't need that anyway." 2) A sense of community. I actually feel comforted by the fact that Iris experiences the same things. There really aren't many regular single female posters on here... most of y'all are married or in very committed relationships. It's really nice to hear another single woman with the same story. And 3) Yes, some knowledge. But I want it to make sense. When I say I tried my absolute best to be positive and trusting in my last relationship, and I STILL got burned for a hotter woman, and you turn around and say "Oh well it's your negativity not your looks," it doesn't make sense!
LondonS Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 As it's been said countless times before, I value opinions and feedback, but only when they make sense within my experiences. And the things people say, like "oh no it's not your looks," don't make sense. If it's not my looks, why has every single guy I've dated knocked down how I look? Why do guys never hit on me? etc. etc., said this before. What I hope to accomplish is a couple of things: 1) Some sympathy. Yes, I'd like some pity. I've always dreamed of having a husband and kids, and I'll never get to experience that. I am deeply sad and hopeless about losing that dream, and it'd be nice to have that acknowledged in a public way instead of "Oh well you didn't need that anyway." 2) A sense of community. I actually feel comforted by the fact that Iris experiences the same things. There really aren't many regular single female posters on here... most of y'all are married or in very committed relationships. It's really nice to hear another single woman with the same story. And 3) Yes, some knowledge. But I want it to make sense. When I say I tried my absolute best to be positive and trusting in my last relationship, and I STILL got burned for a hotter woman, and you turn around and say "Oh well it's your negativity not your looks," it doesn't make sense! wow, you are so negative its almost depressing.... write down your 10 qualities and appreciate them....once you do, you ll see others begin to appreciate them too. I am sure you have a lot to offer to a relationship than you are giving yourself credit for...
verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 wow, you are so negative its almost depressing.... write down your 10 qualities and appreciate them....once you do, you ll see others begin to appreciate them too. I am sure you have a lot to offer to a relationship than you are giving yourself credit for... And if I don't? What then?
LondonS Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 And if I don't? What then? "Insanity is doing same thing over & over and expecting different results" Goodluck
Els Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 As it's been said countless times before, I value opinions and feedback, but only when they make sense within my experiences. And the things people say, like "oh no it's not your looks," don't make sense. If it's not my looks, why has every single guy I've dated knocked down how I look? Why do guys never hit on me? etc. etc., said this before. What I hope to accomplish is a couple of things: 1) Some sympathy. Yes, I'd like some pity. I've always dreamed of having a husband and kids, and I'll never get to experience that. I am deeply sad and hopeless about losing that dream, and it'd be nice to have that acknowledged in a public way instead of "Oh well you didn't need that anyway." 2) A sense of community. I actually feel comforted by the fact that Iris experiences the same things. There really aren't many regular single female posters on here... most of y'all are married or in very committed relationships. It's really nice to hear another single woman with the same story. And 3) Yes, some knowledge. But I want it to make sense. When I say I tried my absolute best to be positive and trusting in my last relationship, and I STILL got burned for a hotter woman, and you turn around and say "Oh well it's your negativity not your looks," it doesn't make sense! Fair enough, then - those seem like reasonable theoretical goals. But IMO, if 10+ people telling you that you look fine is not enough for you, either LS is doing absolutely nothing for you and you would be better off seeking help elsewhere, or, well, you need help. There's no delicate way to put it. I don't think its that hard. I met my husband when I was fifteen, he was seventeen. We got married when I was 20. He may not have had a high paying salary, but he was decent and marriable. We got our education, settled into our careers, matured and grew together, all while we were already married. We may have been young and dumb, but you don't have to be alone to mature and learn. You can do that together, as a couple. If women are not ready to settle down and want to focus on their education and career, that is their choice. However, the consequence of that choice may mean less men to choose from. I think the parenting trend in the eighties that mainly focused on building self esteem caused some women to have unrealistic expectations. My own parents and the parents of my friends made it seem like a big line of available men would be just waiting for us to get properly educated and settled in our careers, so that they could come and pick us. Youth and beauty is usually what makes men notice us. It is not all they care about, but it is the initial attraction. It is often what prompts them to get to know us further. When they love our personality as well, many will often want to commit. This bond can hold strong for a lifetime, with the initial attraction being physical and the continuing relationship based on companionship, compatibility, shared history, etc. I will tell my daughter both sides of the coin. Marrying young has its disadvantages and is not the best plan for everyone. But waiting has disadvantages, too. There are no guarantees. I don't wish to kill the messenger - I think there's some truth in what you say. But IMO this attitude, in general, is detrimental to both men and women alike, and I wish more people would see sense through it. By making it sound like it's exponentially harder for women to get a good mate later on, it develops a false sense of extreme urgency in some young women, to marry early at all costs if they prize relationships and family. This is all well and good if it naturally comes about, but in many cases you see young women putting all sorts of ultimatums and pressure on the men they purport to love to marry them within a certain timeframe, or settling down with a man they don't truly love, or doing whatever they do with the sole goal of getting marriage ASAP. All because they fear that they will never be able to 'snag' a guy again or have a family after a certain age. I'm sure you can see why this process is bad. People rush into it when one or both sides are not ready, and that doesn't usually end well. Not all young marriages are bad, but young marriages that stem from one party's fear of getting older while still unmarried, are quite likely to turn sour. Also, given that you have posted repeatedly about gender equality and the need for 50/50 financial contribution, I'm curious to hear your reasoning for aging being more detrimental for women seeking relationships. What do you think women are with much older men for (which can be the only reason for this discrepancy), in most cases? The entire 'older men, younger women' thing stemmed from an era in which a man was valued primarily for his ability to provide for the family because women did not work outside the home, and women were valued primarily for her youth because it meant she was more fertile and had a better chance of producing offspring. One cannot exist without the other - there is no rationale for older men being preferred over older women, other than earning capacity being prized more in men. At any rate, I do agree that the pool shrinks as you get older, but it shrinks equally for both - I guess I don't really count the women who want older men just so they can have a rich husband. OTOH, I think that at any age, there is still a reasonable chance of finding the right person for you, assuming you have kept yourself in decent shape mentally, emotionally, and physically - because the right person will not dismiss you for your age or lack thereof.
thatone Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Fair enough, then - those seem like reasonable theoretical goals. But IMO, if 10+ people telling you that you look fine is not enough for you, either LS is doing absolutely nothing for you and you would be better off seeking help elsewhere, or, well, you need help. There's no delicate way to put it. i think her situation applies to the comment about the last part of your post... I don't wish to kill the messenger - I think there's some truth in what you say. But IMO this attitude, in general, is detrimental to both men and women alike, and I wish more people would see sense through it. By making it sound like it's exponentially harder for women to get a good mate later on, it develops a false sense of extreme urgency in some young women, to marry early at all costs if they prize relationships and family. This is all well and good if it naturally comes about, but in many cases you see young women putting all sorts of ultimatums and pressure on the men they purport to love to marry them within a certain timeframe, or settling down with a man they don't truly love, or doing whatever they do with the sole goal of getting marriage ASAP. All because they fear that they will never be able to 'snag' a guy again or have a family after a certain age. I'm sure you can see why this process is bad. People rush into it when one or both sides are not ready, and that doesn't usually end well. Not all young marriages are bad, but young marriages that stem from one party's fear of getting older while still unmarried, are quite likely to turn sour. Also, given that you have posted repeatedly about gender equality and the need for 50/50 financial contribution, I'm curious to hear your reasoning for aging being more detrimental for women seeking relationships. What do you think women are with much older men for (which can be the only reason for this discrepancy), in most cases? The entire 'older men, younger women' thing stemmed from an era in which a man was valued primarily for his ability to provide for the family because women did not work outside the home, and women were valued primarily for her youth because it meant she was more fertile and had a better chance of producing offspring. One cannot exist without the other - there is no rationale for older men being preferred over older women, other than earning capacity being prized more in men. At any rate, I do agree that the pool shrinks as you get older, but it shrinks equally for both - I guess I don't really count the women who want older men just so they can have a rich husband. OTOH, I think that at any age, there is still a reasonable chance of finding the right person for you, assuming you have kept yourself in decent shape mentally, emotionally, and physically - because the right person will not dismiss you for your age or lack thereof. it's not impossible for older women to have meaningful relationships by any means. it's impossible for women who have nothing to offer but their appearance to do so, though. and as she said the self esteem BS is what prompts these debates. women who shop around for a marriage partner just like they shop for a car are not going to be a good partner for ANYONE, it doesn't matter when they get married or if they never get married. and women who are otherwise well adjusted and can manage not to be a toxic mix of selfish and insecure will have no trouble finding men no matter their age, it doesn't matter whether they get married when they're still young and better looking. but the bottom line is the "self esteem makes your dreams come true" theory is bullsh*t. the girl in my first example is going to have a miserable life. there's no way around it. not everyone is salvageable. the girl in the second example will probably be pretty happy regardless of her relationships. but our modern culture doesn't lend itself to reality very well. people live in fantasy worlds oblivious to their own situation. verhrzn lives in the gamer/nerd/anime/etc world and wonders why she doesn't find attractive men there. hello? there's a reason why most of those guys at comic book conventions are 20-30 year old virgins. taking pics with the strippers they hire to wear those costumes is as close as most of them are ever going to get to a woman near their own age that isn't their sister or cousin giving them a hug at thanksgiving dinner. but that's who she is, the deck is stacked against her, sure, but it's not impossible. she's just going to have to be a bit more patient to find normal people amongst her social crowd. the same goes for the 25 year old bar girl who fills her 20s with random one night stands and short lived abusive relationships with 'bad guy' types. she's not ever going to find the tattoo'd bartender who wants to marry her and father her 2 children. it's not to say that she can't grow up at some point and find a guy somewhere else, but doing what she's doing isn't going to work. all the self esteem in the world isn't going to sort the situations of such women out. they want what doesn't exist. there's a difference between self confidence and self esteem. self confidence is gained from succeeding at something and knowing you can continue to succeed at that thing. self esteem is telling yourself that you can do what people with self confidence do, without the pesky requirement that you actually do it.
Els Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I actually agree with you, thatone, but I don't think that was what the poster I quoted was saying, at all.
verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I actually agree with you, thatone, but I don't think that was what the poster I quoted was saying, at all. Well I'd love help on how to accept being ugly and average, and/or how to accept a life alone where you've failed at achieving even one of your dreams. Am I allowed to start a thread about that?
xxoo Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Well I'd love help on how to accept being ugly and average, and/or how to accept a life alone where you've failed at achieving even one of your dreams. Am I allowed to start a thread about that? No, you are not allowed to start a thread about being ugly, because you are unqualified. However, your attitude is ugly. Is that what you meant?
SmileFace Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I am pretty sure this board is full of single ladies who deserve each and ever grain of pity you think you deserve. I for one have been trying my best to get in relationship and have successful failed each and every time, however I don't find the need to complain but try to figure out ways to improve myself. So no you don't need pity one bit. 1
verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 No, you are not allowed to start a thread about being ugly, because you are unqualified. However, your attitude is ugly. Is that what you meant? Ugh, this is so frustrating. Do people not see the double chin, the awful hair, the thin lips, the huge stomach, the oily skin?? Do I (and the people I encounter in real life) just live in a different dimension? But, yeah, fine, let's lay all the blame on my awful personality instead. That's much better!
PlumPrincess Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 As it's been said countless times before, I value opinions and feedback, but only when they make sense within my experiences. And the things people say, like "oh no it's not your looks," don't make sense. If it's not my looks, why has every single guy I've dated knocked down how I look? Why do guys never hit on me? etc. etc., said this before. What I hope to accomplish is a couple of things: 1) Some sympathy. Yes, I'd like some pity. I've always dreamed of having a husband and kids, and I'll never get to experience that. I am deeply sad and hopeless about losing that dream, and it'd be nice to have that acknowledged in a public way instead of "Oh well you didn't need that anyway." 2) A sense of community. I actually feel comforted by the fact that Iris experiences the same things. There really aren't many regular single female posters on here... most of y'all are married or in very committed relationships. It's really nice to hear another single woman with the same story. And 3) Yes, some knowledge. But I want it to make sense. When I say I tried my absolute best to be positive and trusting in my last relationship, and I STILL got burned for a hotter woman, and you turn around and say "Oh well it's your negativity not your looks," it doesn't make sense! What is it that you don't get? I already told you, don't go for jerks and womanizers. I don't believe you that you dated your ex, because you were desperate and thought he was your last chance. You dated him, because you were attracted to him just like the other women. He was unemployed, a pot head and he slept around. Any woman who wanted a serious relationship would have dropped him. Were you too desperate for a relationship or too infatuated? I also don't get why you continue claiming that hot looks will protect you from cheating. I mentioned two extremely beautiful women who got cheated on or were only kept as a mistress among other women. What kind of looks were you thinking of that would make you immune to cheating?
xxoo Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Ugh, this is so frustrating. Do people not see the double chin, the awful hair, the thin lips, the huge stomach, the oily skin?? Do I (and the people I encounter in real life) just live in a different dimension? But, yeah, fine, let's lay all the blame on my awful personality instead. That's much better! It's a small photo on my screen. I can't see all the tiny details. However, I can see that your stomach looks flat. If you think your stomach looks huge in that photo, your mind's lens is warped. BTW, I have friends with awful hair, thin lips, and oily skin (and huge stomachs, fwiw). None of those things make someone "ugly". Just "normal".
verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 What is it that you don't get? I already told you, don't go for jerks and womanizers. I don't believe you that you dated your ex, because you were desperate and thought he was your last chance. You dated him, because you were attracted to him just like the other women. He was unemployed, a pot head and he slept around. Any woman who wanted a serious relationship would have dropped him. Were you too desperate for a relationship or too infatuated? It can't be both? I can't have both liked him AND thought there was no one else? (Cause there wasn't.) I'm constantly told on this forum to lower my standards... if an unemployed pot head doesn't want me, who would? You never answered my (and Iris' original) question: if jerks and womanizers are all you can get, are all that you can attract, then what?
xxoo Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 You never answered my (and Iris' original) question: if jerks and womanizers are all you can get, are all that you can attract, then what? Figure out why. (hint: it is not your appearance)
verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Figure out why. (hint: it is not your appearance) Yay, it's my awful personality instead! That makes me feel SO much better! PS: If it's not my appearance... why does every single guy tell me it's my appearance?
xxoo Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Yay, it's my awful personality instead! That makes me feel SO much better! PS: If it's not my appearance... why does every single guy tell me it's my appearance? Your personality has lots of great aspects. The way you think about yourself is ugly. And the way you view men is kind of ugly, too. I assume that you harp on the appearance topic until a guy gets sick of it and agrees with you just to hear the end of it.
verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Your personality has lots of great aspects. The way you think about yourself is ugly. And the way you view men is kind of ugly, too. I assume that you harp on the appearance topic until a guy gets sick of it and agrees with you just to hear the end of it. No, they usually tell me I'm ugly while dumping me. Why is the way I think about men ugly?? I assume they want a hot chick. Why is that so off the deep end... we have hundreds, thousands of threads on this forum alone confirming that very fact. 1
xxoo Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 No, they usually tell me I'm ugly while dumping me. Why is the way I think about men ugly?? I assume they want a hot chick. Why is that so off the deep end... we have hundreds, thousands of threads on this forum alone confirming that very fact. A lot of the men on this forum have ugly attitudes toward women. They don't represent men I know and like. They represent men struggling with dating (possibly because of their ugly attitudes toward women). 1
thatone Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I actually agree with you, thatone, but I don't think that was what the poster I quoted was saying, at all. well i was trying to expand on what she was saying, not so much disagree with you. there are plenty of examples on this forum of older women with education and careers that seem to post about men they meet all the time. they seem to be doing ok, by and large. but it depends on the type of person we're talking about. the girl who does what quiet storm was talking about? she doesn't ever get to be the hot girl at the bar that attractive men chase after. she gave up on that lifestyle by working through school in her 20s. not to say she can't be happily dating in her 30s, lots of women do that. but she can't do it pretending to be a 22 year old. honestly, if the ditsy 18 year old cheerleader who gets text/facebook withdrawals during her ACT/SAT exam gets a marriage proposal from the random football player, she probably outta take it. by and large, she's not going to be any more desirable than she is now. the same goes for the football player who can barely write his own name but is being ushered into his family's business and a free living, all he has to do is find a suitable wife for his mother's grandkids. that guy should probably take the opportunity too. i mean, i'm the male example of this. i worked hard through my 20s, no girl had a chance of keeping me around, if i got a better career opportunity, i'd pick up and leave in a second. now that i'm in my 30s i can be more flexible and have no trouble finding relationships. so i did what quiet storm's stereotypical example suggested. but then again i'm a man, men have been doing that forever, we have no pressure to be married or have children. women do, so simply telling women to act like men and suggesting that feeling good about it will make it all worth while isn't really a rational suggestion, because it's contradictory. it's really silly when you think about it... "yes little susie, i know your entire self worth is derived from having a boyfriend or the ability to get a boyfriend, because that's how ALL of your friends behave, but really, disregard that and buck the entire system until you're 30. you can be a veterinarian and an astronaut and a princess and a mom all at the same time if you just believe us when we tell you how perfect you are, you'll thank us later!" no wonder young women are so screwed up...
gaius Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Yay, it's my awful personality instead! That makes me feel SO much better! PS: If it's not my appearance... why does every single guy tell me it's my appearance? Honestly, because they want to get rid of you and know it will do the trick. Guys don't like women who do nothing but think and talk about themselves. Which is all I've ever seen you do here, hijack threads and turn them into why can't vertical get a boyfriend. I really doubt you have a much different mindset in real life. I've seen all your pics here and on the other forum. Your nose isn't super photogenic, but who among us is perfect? I know I'm not. Looks wise you've certainly got your assets even if you don't recognize them. I know girls a few rungs below you that manage to keep a guy. It's because they know how to talk to him without being annoying.
verhrzn Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Honestly, because they want to get rid of you and know it will do the trick. Guys don't like women who do nothing but think and talk about themselves. Which is all I've ever seen you do here, hijack threads and turn them into why can't vertical get a boyfriend. I really doubt you have a much different mindset in real life. I've seen all your pics here and on the other forum. Your nose isn't super photogenic, but who among us is perfect? I know I'm not. Looks wise you've certainly got your assets even if you don't recognize them. I know girls a few rungs below you that manage to keep a guy. It's because they know how to talk to him without being annoying. Maybe these threads turn into "verhzn can't get a date" because everyone loves piling on and telling me how all of my conclusions and absolutely everything about my experiences are wrong. But big nose, selfish, annoying, awful personality, yep, message received loud and clear. How bout y'all sign a petition to ban all of the ugly and annoying posters, like me, or put us on Ignore?
matte123 Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 Figure out why. (hint: it is not your appearance) This^ Verhrzn, judging from your picture, I think you are average looking. I don't think you look ugly. I also don't believe your relationship troubles are due to your appearance. It might be something else whether it's your personality, bad luck with the men you're attracted to, the location, etc. I have a few friends who are even less attractive than you physically yet they are in stable long term relationships. What they seem to have in common is that they are interesting in some aspect, fun to be around, easy to talk to, and are nice people You need to figure out what's the root of your problem.
Recommended Posts