I don't believe in living with a bf

May 6, 2012

Honestly why even have legal marriage? Just live together and when things go wrong you can just split up and go your seperate ways. If it weren't so important to my wife I would perfectly fine just shacking up with her. Luckily she was willing to sign the prenup I wanted but marriage is just a headache most of the time. If everything else is going well why do women care so much about a wedding?

That's is full commitment and even without kids, it means so much to me. That would be him telling me ''You're the one and only that I can to live forever and age with''.

It's not just a paper. It's the highest level of commitment. Just cohabition without an engagement seems only a temporarily version to me so yes it would offend me greatly if I were dated a man for many years and he still didn't know I was the right woman. I don't think there would be any greater rejection than that.

May 6, 2012

Are you familiar with the walkway wife epidemic? There are plenty of guys who have their wives walk out all of a sudden and they have no clue why.

Are you aware of the effects of testosterone, that it suppresses empathy? You can bet this has much to do with the obliviousness towards their spouses negative emotional state.

With awareness of this biological state, some of these guys could easily have prevented their divorce.

May 6, 2012

Because if it goes wrong it can really mess up a man's life unless he gets the prenup he wants which I did.

I will gladly sign a prenup. I don't care about his status as I'm paying for my classes and at the same time saving money to buy myself an apartment.

I just want a life partner, not just a bf. It's always been one of my goals.

In addition the only two reasons I would actually file for divorce would be infidelity and/or abuse. I really don't ask too much nor do I want jewels (don't even like them anyways).

May 6, 2012

Ah yes, the man's always the victim since the victim has the most power within the Karpman Triangle theory. The victim gets the most sympathy.

As if divorce doesn't mess with women's heads and lives. So irrational.

I don't know what Karpman Triangle theory is. My opinion [damn close to Woogle's] comes from life experience and seeing a lot of marriages dissolved by women, and in some cases said women manipulating the court system to favor them.

Any lawyer [regardless of gender] who has practiced for a significant nr of yrs and has represented some men will tell you this.

Any normal person will tell you that women are not the great impartial mediators that they show themselves as.

Just ask any pretty woman who has been interviewed by a HR department [a good study came from Israel on this], or ask any lawyer about weather or not female judges tend to side with their own gender when it comes to divorces.

As Woogle pointed out, 75% of divorces are started by women and 50% or more of them are unilateral [1 spouse wants out but the other doesn't] ... paints a pretty picture for any man [any woman who has seen a relative man go through this might feel something for him] who is wanting marriage.

What's worse is the fact that many homicides of men by women within the house are not reported in the greater media [they are reported on a local level], and that some times the woman gets away with 'self-defense'.

If we don't play ball we are accused of abuse ... you don't even need marks on the body to get away with it, but it sure sticks on our record.

So pardon men if they seem a little skiddish about getting married.

We may take a little longer to get to say 'i do' but the facts show that we are more likely to want to stick around than women [the above divorce statistics].

---

And this is why you should live together before it gets serious, even if only for a short time. Many couples fall apart when they have to share space ... why have it go down in flames when it's more important to you ?

PS: I won't even go into the cases of women who killed their small children because their husbands were starting to win custody over them because they're BPD was starting to show.

The man was the abuser there too, with slain children by her.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Radu

May 6, 2012

I will gladly sign a prenup. I don't care about his status as I'm paying for my classes and at the same time saving money to buy myself an apartment.

I just want a life partner, not just a bf. It's always been one of my goals.

In addition the only two reasons I would actually file for divorce would be infidelity and/or abuse. I really don't ask too much nor do I want jewels (don't even like them anyways).

If you have this mentality, i think you have great chances at finding someone to have fun with in life, gl.

May 6, 2012

I don't know what Karpman Triangle theory is. My opinion [damn close to Woogle's] comes from life experience and seeing a lot of marriages dissolved by women, and in some cases said women manipulating the court system to favor them.

Any lawyer [regardless of gender] who has practiced for a significant nr of yrs and has represented some men will tell you this.
Any normal person will tell you that women are not the great impartial mediators that they show themselves as.
Just ask any pretty woman who has been interviewed by a HR department [a good study came from Israel on this], or ask any lawyer about weather or not female judges tend to side with their own gender when it comes to divorces.

As Woogle pointed out, 75% of divorces are started by women and 50% or more of them are unilateral [1 spouse wants out but the other doesn't] ... paints a pretty picture for any man [any woman who has seen a relative man go through this might feel something for him] who is wanting marriage.

What's worse is the fact that many homicides of men by women within the house are not reported in the greater media [they are reported on a local level], and that some times the woman gets away with 'self-defense'.
If we don't play ball we are accused of abuse ... you don't even need marks on the body to get away with it, but it sure sticks on our record.

So pardon men if they seem a little skiddish about getting married.
We may take a little longer to get to say 'i do' but the facts show that we are more likely to want to stick around than women [the above divorce statistics].

---

And this is why you should live together before it gets serious, even if only for a short time. Many couples fall apart when they have to share space ... why have it go down in flames when it's more important to you ?

PS: I won't even go into the cases of women who killed their small children because their husbands were starting to win custody over them because they're BPD was starting to show.
The man was the abuser there too, with slain children by her.

Good luck finding a partner who will put up with such a negative attitude towards women. Women are bad, bad, bad.

Being afraid will get you nothing in life.

May 6, 2012

Good luck finding a partner who will put up with such a negative attitude towards women. Women are bad, bad, bad.

Being afraid will get you nothing in life.

Do you take any criticism of modern day marriage and dating to be anti-woman?

May 6, 2012

Do you take any criticism of modern day marriage and dating to be anti-woman?

I take an entire list of issues with women, solely focusing on fault finding with women and marriage, to be unrealistic.

If I were to take every negative individual trait of every man I've ever encountered, I could create a massive list of why women should never get married. But this wouldn't be a realistic representation of individual men of which every woman is responsible for selecting, treating and receiving treatment from her mate. Now reverse the genders.

May 6, 2012

I don't know what Karpman Triangle theory is. My opinion [damn close to Woogle's] comes from life experience and seeing a lot of marriages dissolved by women, and in some cases said women manipulating the court system to favor them.

<big snip>

PS: I won't even go into the cases of women who killed their small children because their husbands were starting to win custody over them because they're BPD was starting to show.
The man was the abuser there too, with slain children by her.

You cite an awful lot of instances... got any data, links or references to back them up?

I can't bear it when people say things like: 'I won't go in to the cases of ....' and then don't.

If you're going to make claims of this nature, you damn well ought to be able to go into it.

Otherwise it's just yet another damn rant.

Verifiable figures and reference links for your assertions would be welcome.

And don't give me 'statistics' - "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

(See? I can give reference! )

I lay as much credence at the foot of statistics as I do the to the Easter Bunny.

May 6, 2012

I do agree with you samsungxoxo, I feel pathetic about those women spending their much time with bf, ending up without a proposal. They were just wasting their golden age for an a**hole.

May 6, 2012

Well I'm sure we all heard about many women moving in with their bfs and living together for years but no proposal, this has me thinking that the mistake is maybe the moving in together in the first place.

That's the only aspect I'm old-fashioned. I do not believe in moving in unless the man is my fiance (though I don't want kids, I still want marriage someday: a childfree marriage) and there is a date set-on, not just talk nor maybe answers.

So this has me wondered. Relately I've noticed too many women living together with a bf, no offense but to me doesn't really make sense. IMO a ''living together'' relationship is only a temporarily version of what it's like seeing them everyday but without any real commitment. If a potential bf ever asked me to move in with him, I will say no thanks right away. I don't really see moving in together with a bf as something serious and I also don't want to end up in the ''We've been living for 5 years and no proposal'' category.

I'm I right in thinking this way?

I also believe as you do and think that some old fashioned things do have their merit, and the reasoning behind some of them actually make sense.

I very much believe in courtship. That is, having a dating relationship that has some goal or purpose. Where a man is getting to know me and I him, and deciding whether or not we want to gradually increase the commitment to be a couple and then whether or not we see the other as someone we'd marry. I think the intentionality and purosefulness is what makes all the difference. Most people these days seem to not know what dating means, most people are having casual sex and thinking their feelings won't be involved, then it is, but now they don't know where they stand, or think moving in with the person they're dating is par for the course even if they have no intention/idea of where they see it headed. For me, it is all quite haphazard and for me and my life, as well as the relationships I admire, I need some sense of purpose and some sense of us taking things in stages and having a goal and not just let's do whatever and then see what happens.....

Edited May 6, 2012 by MissBee

May 7, 2012

I do agree with you samsungxoxo, I feel pathetic about those women spending their much time with bf, ending up without a proposal. They were just wasting their golden age for an a**hole.

Exactly. It takes a smart woman not to fall for that. I wish I could tell all those women (those that want marriage that is) wasting their time that ''moving in isn't a step towards an engagement'' but rather a way to let him lead you on.

Though certain things might by now be considered old-fashioned, they sure serve for a purpose. Sometimes it's good to try the old medicine again (in this case out with the new and in with the old).

The only time I might see cohabition acceptable is if the woman is only looking for casual relationships (is playing the fields) and she isn't marriage-minded then ok... that's fair game.

May 7, 2012

You've totally missed the point. The point is "why are women filing more divorces" of which I've given you two substantial reasons which is infidelity on the part of the man and men wanting to remain in marriages when they're benefiting more from the marriage than the woman.

Those men want to preserve their marriage not because they benefit more from the marriage. They just dont want to lose half their assets and kids.

I do agree with you samsungxoxo, I feel pathetic about those women spending their much time with bf, ending up without a proposal. They were just wasting their golden age for an a**hole.

Yea, no matter how kind a man treats a woman, if he doesnt want marriage, then he is an A-hole. The man who proposes after 6 months and divorces the woman 6 months later is so much better in comparison.

This whole thread really shows how 'child-like' the woman's mind is. They seem to live for the sole purpose of satisfying their childhood little girls fantasy of getting married and having that perfect wedding. Everything else comes second.

Edited May 7, 2012 by musemaj11

May 7, 2012

Exactly. It takes a smart woman not to fall for that. I wish I could tell all those women (those that want marriage that is) wasting their time that ''moving in isn't a step towards an engagement'' but rather a way to let him lead you on.

Though certain things might by now be considered old-fashioned, they sure serve for a purpose. Sometimes it's good to try the old medicine again (in this case out with the new and in with the old).

The only time I might see cohabition acceptable is if the woman is only looking for casual relationships (is playing the fields) and she isn't marriage-minded then ok... that's fair game.

Or perhaps, some of us are interested in enjoying every stage of the journey instead of dashing full speed towards 'MARRIAGE ASAP'. IMO, life isn't a list of goals to tick off on a piece of paper, it's about your experiences and how you explore and savour them. Unless you're planning on popping out 10 kids or so, there is no harm in taking a few extra years getting to know a person, especially at your age (mid-20s, if I recall).

To some of us, living together is part of the journey towards marriage. There is a whole huge, broad spectrum between 'casual dating' and 'marriage', you know - whatever happened to exclusivity, LTRs, etc? You don't just go straight from casual dating to marriage - or at least I wouldn't put my money on your marriage lasting more than a few years if you do. To some people, those steps don't involve living together, and that's okay. But to some people, those steps do - and it works for many. I know many, many, many couples who lived together and got married after. They seem as happy as some who didn't live together prior to marriage. Each to their own.

Contrary to your belief, not all men want to 'lead you on' or 'not buy the cow' (what a horribly antiquated belief). Some of them genuinely want to, like some women, spend some time living together to figure out if their living habits match up, before making a lifelong commitment. It isn't always necessary, but it isn't always detrimental either.

Either way, I still don't see the purpose of this thread. Why don't you just be with a guy who feels the same way? You clearly aren't looking for advice or opinions, so why the need to declare this?

May 7, 2012

Those men want to preserve their marriage not because they benefit more from the marriage. They just dont want to lose half their assets and kids.

Did you not read the part where I don't even want kids and I'm also saving money to buy myself my own apartment.

In addition, I will sign a prenup.

So what else would the man worry about by then???

May 7, 2012

Yea, no matter how kind a man treats a woman, if he doesnt want marriage, then he is an A-hole. The man who proposes after 6 months and divorces the woman 6 months later is so much better in comparison.

And why should I waste my time with such man when I can find one that is interested in what I'm looking for? I'm sure there are still marriage-minded men in the world who won't insist on the living together part.

May 7, 2012

Contrary to your belief, not all men want to 'lead you on' or 'not buy the cow' (what a horribly antiquated belief). Some of them genuinely want to, like some women, spend some time living together to figure out if their living habits match up, before making a lifelong commitment. It isn't always necessary, but it isn't always detrimental either.

True but I'm I just suppose to go by his words and immediately move in? Right he's telling the truth and I'll blindly trust him... Don't think so.

Either way, I still don't see the purpose of this thread. Why don't you just be with a guy who feels the same way? You clearly aren't looking for advice or opinions, so why the need to declare this?

I'm just making an observation and feel for those women that wasted time and had to end a 4+ years relationship when they finally realize their men didn't wanted to get married. I'm sure they also thought their bfs were going to propose within a certain time but it never happened.

May 7, 2012

Yea, no matter how kind a man treats a woman, if he doesnt want marriage, then he is an A-hole. The man who proposes after 6 months and divorces the woman 6 months later is so much better in comparison.

Try imagining intimacy was denied or she simply says you're bad in bed. It would suck wouldn't it?

So why wouldn't I get hurt if after too much time passed he still doesn't want to spend the rest of his life with me and I'm just a gf?

May 7, 2012

Try imagining intimacy was denied or she simply says you're bad in bed. It would suck wouldn't it?

So why wouldn't I get hurt if after too much time passed he still doesn't want to spend the rest of his life with me and I'm just a gf?

Just because does not want to marry does not mean he does not want to spend his life with a woman. Just look at the state of marriage these days. Is there any real meaning to those vows anymore?

May 7, 2012

Just because does not want to marry does not mean he does not want to spend his life with a woman.

Then he would have to find a woman that doesn't believes in marriage (there are some like that too). It's not fair when they're not on the same page and enough time being invested for nothing.

May 7, 2012

True but I'm I just suppose to go by his words and immediately move in? Right he's telling the truth and I'll blindly trust him... Don't think so.

How is that anywhere close to what I said? If you don't want to move in with a guy before marriage, there's a very simple solution... don't. Just don't generalize your beliefs and preferences to claim stuff like 'all men who live with their gfs before marriage just want to lead you on'. That is not the truth.

I'm just making an observation and feel for those women that wasted time and had to end a 4+ years relationship when they finally realize their men didn't wanted to get married. I'm sure they also thought their bfs were going to propose within a certain time but it never happened.

And how do you feel not living together before marriage would have magically solved their problem?

You're quoting minutiae of my post and skirting around the huge elephant in it. The major points are that 1) there is a huge area between 'casual dating' and 'married', and many people spend years in that area - it is ignorant to assume that anyone who isn't rushing to get married is just interested in casually dating; and 2) there have been couples who lived together before and have been married for years now (although it doesn't work for some people, including yourself), so you would do well to not generalize.

What is your response to that?

May 7, 2012

Then he would have to find a woman that doesn't believes in marriage (there are some like that too). It's not fair when they're not on the same page and enough time being invested for nothing.

I do agree with this. People should be honest about their intentions from the start.

May 7, 2012

I have lived with a man I didn't marry and never intended to marry. He did propose, btw. The breakup was messy and hard, as such breakups are, though it was made easier in my case because I decided to move out of the country almost immediately after and our lease was up anyway and he'd bought a house ("for us" but without my even seeing it! That was basically where it began unraveling).

Then, I decided I wasn't interested in living with a man until engagement. I turned down the last exBF under those grounds, when he wanted to live together early on. Since that didn't work out, it saved us both some trouble. Even after that, I technically agreed to live with Hubby before he proposed. But he proposed before I was to move in, so we were actually married 2 days before I officially moved in. Nothing changed, except more of my stuff was there at the same time and I paid a little more rent b/c his was more expensive than my share at my old place. Prior to that, I hadn't slept at my house in months.

I've seen many people who lived together later get married. Statistics bear out that many of them do and that there's no "milk for free" phenomenon. There used to be, but that's when living together was a radical idea and the people who did it likely weren't marriage-minded. Nowadays, it's just seen as a stepping stone. Granted, it's one you can or cannot choose, and I think most people are fairly open to it but also fairly open to waiting for the official move-in if their partner doesn't want that prior to marriage. I don't really see any grand controversy or problem with doing it or not doing it.

Living together first neither seems to make marriage less likely nor make marriage more successful, as far as statistics go, counter to the ideas both "sides" have on the subject. Certainly I would never suggest living with someone you don't think you might marry --- it's just too hard to disentangle, so if you know the R is temporary, why do it? That's what I learned from my first experience. fwiw, us living together had NOTHING to do with the breakup or me knowing I didn't want to marry him.

May 7, 2012

My husband and I lived together for years before were were married or even engaged. Whether or not it would result in marriage never entered my mind as a question. I just knew it would. We were commited from the beginning. It wasn't a "test run" but it was convenient. We were spending all our time together anyway. It turned out to be a good test run for me. I think it stopped me from freaking out over the little things after marriage. I had already seen all the little things. Of course now, 23 years later (marriage and living together combined), the little things are bugging the sh#t out of me.

May 8, 2012

Well I'm sure we all heard about many women moving in with their bfs and living together for years but no proposal, this has me thinking that the mistake is maybe the moving in together in the first place.

That's the only aspect I'm old-fashioned. I do not believe in moving in unless the man is my fiance (though I don't want kids, I still want marriage someday: a childfree marriage) and there is a date set-on, not just talk nor maybe answers.

So this has me wondered. Relately I've noticed too many women living together with a bf, no offense but to me doesn't really make sense. IMO a ''living together'' relationship is only a temporarily version of what it's like seeing them everyday but without any real commitment. If a potential bf ever asked me to move in with him, I will say no thanks right away. I don't really see moving in together with a bf as something serious and I also don't want to end up in the ''We've been living for 5 years and no proposal'' category.

I'm I right in thinking this way?

Moving in isn't the problem, the guy is.

Me and my ex moved in the day we started dating (long story) and I proposed. My friend was living with his girl and they're now engaged.

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