jobaba Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Yeah, of course, cause when I said "I've been to volunteering groups," it obviously means I don't already currently volunteer.....? Again, you and Pierre just keep saying over and over "You choose the players, you ignore the good guys." I've asked several times where these good guys are. Why are you ignoring the question? Cause it's easier to blame us than admit maybe good, single guys just are not numerous anymore? There's good non shallow men around, just like there's good non shallow women around. They are just hard to find. If that's what you are TRULY looking for (and I'm not convinced of that), then you just have to keep looking. Also, spend time on another forum. The men here don't do a great job of representing the type of man you are looking for.
Pierre Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I think me and ES are about the same age, so I'd guess her age bracket is similar to mine... 25-32ish for me (same, ES?) Well all the men at my company are engaged/married, and I graduated college 2 years ago. (I am 26.) So guess we're just screwed ES, we've just missed all the good men and are left with table-tennis-loving players! It is surprising to see how many marriages come out of folks that met in college. I even know of a young woman that never dated in high school and had a wonderful dating experience in college and found the right guy. Some folks say "you go to college to get a good education and to make solid connections for the rest of your life". If you ladies want to marry a Harvard graduate lawyer it would pay to get accepted to Harvard. Where else could you meet the guy? Wait till you hit 40s and have to deal with recycled divorced men with kids.
verhrzn Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 It is surprising to see how many marriages come out of folks that met in college. I even know of a young woman that never dated in high school and had a wonderful dating experience in college and found the right guy. Some folks say "you go to college to get a good education and to make solid connections for the rest of your life". If you ladies want to marry a Harvard graduate lawyer it would pay to get accepted to Harvard. Where else could you meet the guy? Wait till you hit 40s and have to deal with recycled divorced men with kids. Um... where do either ES or I say we want a Harvard educated lawyer? So if you're a woman, your choices are: get married out of college, or accept recycled divorced men. Yay!
verhrzn Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Nonsense... For every 100 women that are born in the world, 105 men are born. That average counts for the US too. That implies that at any point in time there are more single men than women. You're implying that in the excess of single men there are no good single men left for the age bracket that you target. Due to a higher level of death among male adolescents and a higher incarceration rate among men, demographically that assertion isn't accurate. I've often gotten the idea that you have higher standards than you publicly admit. It's not so much that having high standards is wrong, hell no, but it's hard to help you when you're not being entirely frank in that regard. I'm just gonna echo Johan here... It's interesting how when anything goes wrong in ES's dating life, people figure out ways to make it her fault. Why is it when a woman has trouble dating it's always because her standards are too high or she's too shallow? 1
jobaba Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Why is it when a woman has trouble dating it's always because her standards are too high or she's too shallow? First of all. I don't know anything about OP's dating life. I haven't read those threads. But ... if you're a woman and you've rejected men who you knew were good guys and would treat you well (and they are very easy to spot) because they were unattractive to you ... and yet complain about the inability to meet good men ... well then, you probably won't get too much pity from men.
johan Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 First of all. I don't know anything about OP's dating life. I haven't read those threads. But ... if you're a woman and you've rejected men who you knew were good guys and would treat you well (and they are very easy to spot) because they were unattractive to you ... and yet complain about the inability to meet good men ... well then, you probably won't get too much pity from men. That's true. Women who want to be with a guy they find attractive are just ridiculous. Attraction should have nothing to do with it. Every woman should go for a good, solid provider. 4
verhrzn Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 First of all. I don't know anything about OP's dating life. I haven't read those threads. But ... if you're a woman and you've rejected men who you knew were good guys and would treat you well (and they are very easy to spot) because they were unattractive to you ... and yet complain about the inability to meet good men ... well then, you probably won't get too much pity from men. Well I haven't ever rejected a guy, good, bad or otherwise. So... Don't be ridiculous, 5% of the male population does not die during adolescence. Sorry but the demographic information supports it. At birth, there are 1.05-1 more males. But by the time we reach early twenties, it's leveled out to a 1-1 ratio. at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female 15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female 65 years and over: 0.77 male(s)/female total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2012 est.) -https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html Then factor in the much higher incarceration rate: Male Total: 2,096,300, Female Total: 201,200 as of 2009 You're twisting my words, first of all I wasn't talking about women in general, I was talking about YOU. Second of all I said having high standards isn't a problem, what is a problem is that you say you have lower standards than that you actually do. Due to that people can't offer you the best advice, because you feed them different variables than they would need to give you proper advice. Fortunately this thread isn't about me. But frankly, unless my standards are the opposite of what I claim they are (I say all I want is a single male who is somewhat employed when in fact I want a trust-fund-baby male model), I STILL shouldn't be having the problems I am, supposedly. ES is completely honest about her standards, and she still has trouble. So what does that say?
jobaba Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 That's true. Women who want to be with a guy they find attractive are just ridiculous. Attraction should have nothing to do with it. Every woman should go for a good, solid provider. You can reject whomever you want. Just don't bitch and complain about not being able to find a good guy when you're rejecting them.
johan Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 You can reject whomever you want. Just don't bitch and complain about not being able to find a good guy when you're rejecting them. I think a woman should be able to complain if she has a hard time finding a good guy who she is also attracted to. I believe (you might know better) that that is at least part of the purpose of the site. 2
verhrzn Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 You can reject whomever you want. Just don't bitch and complain about not being able to find a good guy when you're rejecting them. Does that mean men will not long bitch and complain that all the hot women are rejecting them? After all, there are tons of unattractive women with awesome personalities these guys are probably rejecting... Why is fair for guys to reject based on attraction, but not women? 1
verhrzn Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 From studies I've seen it evens out around at age 60. Below that age there are still more men than women. So the numbers you're showing give a skewed impression. ... Um, the demographics I posted were from the US government. So, the government is skewing the data?? So by your own standards you would want Somedude if he had a job. I'm calling bullsh*t and you know why. Oh yes, I guess that's a standard that I forget to admit because it's so freaking obvious... "has to not be dating me out of desperation." I've had just about enough of being dumped over and over once a "Nice Guy" gets his confidence up, thanks. 2
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted May 4, 2012 Author Posted May 4, 2012 jojaba, You would get along with my mum. Because I reject few guys here and there she thinks that I have no right to complain about being single. According to her, I am choosing to be single or I would just take what's on offer. In reality, being single is miles better than being with a guy I am just not attracted to. Would you truly want a girl to date you even though she has no physical attraction to you? Wouldn't that suck for you (and the girl)? I can't force physical attraction. It's either there or it's not. It is not enough by itself to make me date someone but lack of is enough to rule someone out (despite everything else).
Star Gazer Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 It's interesting how when anything goes wrong in ES's dating life, people figure out ways to make it her fault. That's because IT IS. She is not a victim. Things have not happened to her. She had made very poor choices. Those choices are her responsibility.
jobaba Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 You can reject whomever you want. Just don't bitch and complain about not being able to find a good guy when you're rejecting them. I think a woman should be able to complain if she has a hard time finding a good guy who she is also attracted to. I believe (you might know better) that that is at least part of the purpose of the site. People can do whatever they want. I just said don't expect much pity when there's guys out there who have never been shown interest by a single woman. But you're right. That does seem to be the overriding purpose of this site. Maybe that is something for me to consider. Does that mean men will not long bitch and complain that all the hot women are rejecting them? After all, there are tons of unattractive women with awesome personalities these guys are probably rejecting... Why is fair for guys to reject based on attraction, but not women? Yea, that's true too. But I don't see those guys posting on here. Any time a guy posts on here about not being able to get hot women, it's a weird one-off troll type. Most guys here complain about not being able to get a woman at all.
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted May 4, 2012 Author Posted May 4, 2012 I think a woman should be able to complain if she has a hard time finding a good guy who she is also attracted to. I believe (you might know better) that that is at least part of the purpose of the site. Absolutely johan. @ the tsunami joke.
johan Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 That's because IT IS. She is not a victim. Things have not happened to her. She had made very poor choices. Those choices are her responsibility. Similar to how all your relationship failures have been completely your fault, correct? 2
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted May 4, 2012 Author Posted May 4, 2012 V, I am older than you (I am 33). It's even harder at this age and it's true that I have kind of missed the boat for getting a good guy. Yet, I still have hope (and so should you I am looking into 28-40 demographic. I would prefer never married/ no kids so yeah, searching for a needle in a haystack.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 :lmao: You'd think a ping pong group would be pretty innocuous, wouldn't ya? Yes, but what I bet she neglected to tell us was that this is naked, swinger ping pong. 1
johan Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I'm not sure if Johan is implying we should ignore a pattern in her romantic misfortune, but if he is, then I don't agree with him. I'm fairly certain ES plays a role in her relationships. I'm not willing to put all the blame for the failures on her shoulders. Some of it, sure. She seems introspective enough to look for opportunities to improve herself. She doesn't strike me as shallow or thoughtless as people make her out to be. I'm almost positive she has feelings. 2
Star Gazer Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Similar to how all your relationship failures have been completely your fault, correct? Where MY CHOICES led to my failures, as is the case with ES, absolutely. I own responsibility for my choices and the consequences of those choices. Point to an example of where ES was helpless, had no choiceego here something one of her failures "just happened to her." You can't. Is it her fault that any given guy is not relationship material? No. Is it her responsibility if she gets burned by a guy who showed himself to be incapable of a healthy relationship but she proceeded anyway? Absolutely.
Star Gazer Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I'm fairly certain ES plays a role in her relationships. I'm not willing to put all the blame for the failures on her shoulders. Some of it, sure. She seems introspective enough to look for opportunities to improve herself. She doesn't strike me as shallow or thoughtless as people make her out to be. I'm almost positive she has feelings. I never implied she lacks feelings. But I disagree that she looks for opportunities to improve herself (other than her weight). What she lacks is the ability to accept responsibility for her own actions/choices. She places the responsibility for her misery and happiness on the men she CHOOSES to date, and does not consider how her actions and choices impact the men she dates and the relationships she chooses to get herself into. She is responsible for her own happiness.
Star Gazer Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Where MY CHOICES led to my failures, as is the case with ES, absolutely. I own responsibility for my choices and the consequences of those choices. Point to an example of where ES was helpless, had no choice, or where one of her failures "just happened to her." You can't. Is it her fault that any given guy is not relationship material? No. Is it her responsibility if she gets burned by a guy who showed himself to be incapable of a healthy relationship but she proceeded anyway? Absolutely. Stupid iPhone. This post should have read as corrected above.
zengirl Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 ES- I think the assumption that he wants you to go to his place, just based on the restaurant choice, is perhaps a bit of a stretch. Unless there's some other vibe you got that went unmentioned. I also have had texts go awry and not received texts, even though I could send out. So, it could theoretically happen. Why not just have emailed the same info if you were also emailing? HOWEVER, there is no way in hell I would drive 45 minutes to meet a guy for a first date that is 5 minutes away from his house. IME, any decent guy doesn't even have to be asked -- he'll plan a place either halfway in between or NEARER to your house. So I think it's fine to say you don't want to drive that far. Personally, I would've also offered to pick some restaurant choices (in the same type and price range as the original restaurant) if he didn't have any ideas. Picking a place to meet should absolutely be a collaborative process. Anyway, you weren't excited to hear from him, and this selection process isn't going well. I'd say call it off, personally, even if he does pick a new place. You don't sound happy to go, so why go and waste both your time? So... where are the RIGHT places to hang out?? I mean, who says to themselves," Man I bet all the guys at this table tennis meeting are players." I mean, really? Well, they are flinging their balls all over the table. What do you expect? 4
serial muse Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) ES- I think the assumption that he wants you to go to his place, just based on the restaurant choice, is perhaps a bit of a stretch. Unless there's some other vibe you got that went unmentioned. I also have had texts go awry and not received texts, even though I could send out. So, it could theoretically happen. Why not just have emailed the same info if you were also emailing? HOWEVER, there is no way in hell I would drive 45 minutes to meet a guy for a first date that is 5 minutes away from his house. IME, any decent guy doesn't even have to be asked -- he'll plan a place either halfway in between or NEARER to your house. So I think it's fine to say you don't want to drive that far. Personally, I would've also offered to pick some restaurant choices (in the same type and price range as the original restaurant) if he didn't have any ideas. Picking a place to meet should absolutely be a collaborative process. Anyway, you weren't excited to hear from him, and this selection process isn't going well. I'd say call it off, personally, even if he does pick a new place. You don't sound happy to go, so why go and waste both your time? Agree with all of this - except I think that ES did suggest an alternative place (which the guy later agreed to, once he got the text). Honestly, I don't really see anything wrong with how ES has handled this. And that includes saying yes to a guy from her table tennis club who asked her out. I mean, how much more wholesome can you get?? And, giving the guy the benefit of the doubt with not receiving the first text (happens) - I don't see anything wrong with what he did, either. Maybe he didn't know where ES lives, so wasn't aware the place he suggested was 45 mins away from her? Maybe it's just a fave restaurant of his and he wanted to impress her/take her to a good meal? Seems OK to me. (And I agree with zengirl on this too - I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he wanted to take you home either.) I know that poster history is relevant and all, but this particular incident seems really...what's the word I'm looking for...normal. Hope you enjoy the date, ES. And if you don't, that's OK too. Edited May 4, 2012 by serial muse 4
zengirl Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Agree with all of this - except I think that ES did suggest an alternative place (which the guy later agreed to, once he got the text). Oh, okay, cool. I must've missed that part! I agree with you I see nothing she did wrong in this case at all. That's just dating. Actually, ES I think you have been actively trying to self-monitor and make positive actions since your last breakup, which was also well-done. A lot of growth recently, and I commend you for that! Hopefully that will pay off down the road, but dating can be "ARRRGHH!" sometimes and she is still obviously feeling a bit put off by the breakup/her feelings towards dating in general. Seems natural to me. 3
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