zengirl Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 You shoulda kept at it, dude. I woulda said something like, "29 is too old for you? Ha. THIS would be creepy, because it's not respecting a woman's asserted boundary. Lying about your age would be creepy. What the OP did was not creepy. The woman has a job, is an adult, and it's perfectly legal and acceptable. I kind of find a man who has an age fetish to be annoying as well (legal and perfectly within his rights, but I don't like people who fetishize other people in general), but asking an attractive person who is 20 out is not the same as having an age fetish. Personally, I really hated much older men asking me out when I was single, because they usually did what Oxy suggests above, and THAT really offends me. I then, at one point, conflated the age difference as creepy --- it is not, at all. It is simply men who cannot respect that an age difference may be important to someone else that become creepy.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Oxy Moronovich Only one person seems to agree with you: mesmerized. She's long since left. So I don't know how one person counts as "a lot of us". There is a difference between people in their 20s dating vs people in their 30s dating. But what does this have to do with the OP? No where did the OP ask about emotional maturity. Yet you brought it up. I'm not talking about life in general or laws I do not agree with. I don't wanna talk about that stuff because it would mean the thread will veer wildly off-topic. I'm sticking on-topic. I am talking only about the OP's situation: a 20 yr old woman dating a 29 yr old man. It's a legal relationship that is consensual. The arguments against it are hogwash. Alot of people in this thread, other then myself and mesmerized, agree that someone 29 shouldn't be dating someone 20. Hence the "us". I don't need to read the thread to you. You can do that yourself. No where did the OP ask if this relationship was legal. Yet this is the only response you keep giving. I repeat, no where did the OP ask if the relationship was legal. All he did was ask if it was "creepy". Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it can't be creepy. And that is quite simply the reality. You, like BQ, simply saying something is "hogwash" doesn't make it so. I am sure you make lots of choices everyday to do or not do something even though they are legal either way. Based on how you want to live your life and move toward your personal goals. So your argument about something being legal equaling the only reason to do or not do something, doesn't make much sense in the context of reality and real life and the choices we all make everyday.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I didn't imply anything. I said that both the younger and older person have a relatively equal propensity to behave poorly in a relationship. Sure, the average 29 year old has "more life experience," but that doesn't inherently make that person more likely to be manipulative or to treat the partner like garbage. Age has very little to do with how deceptive and manipulative one can be. The whole idea that a 29 year old going out with a 20 year old is creepy because the 29 year old has some sort of crazy advantage is BS. Honestly, if people just said "I don't like it because I think it's icky," that would make more sense. Trying to implement an empirical rationale for this very moral, instinctual reaction is pretty senseless. I said nothing about an older person being more manipulative or treating a partner like garbage. What I did say was that someone older has more life experience and the reality is that in most cases, that puts that person at an advantage for their life experiences. And that creates an imbalance in a relationship. And that's not BS. That's called rational logical concerning age and different stages of development. Now if we were talkign about a 30 year old and a 39 year old, that is a different situation. But we are talking about somone 20 vs 29. These two age groups are usually and should be, at different points in their life. And people are bascially saying , "I think it's icky", they are also giving rational reasons why they believe that. What is not rationale is suggesting that simpy thinking something is icky with no reason behind it is better then the reverse. Ridiculous.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 THIS would be creepy, because it's not respecting a woman's asserted boundary. Lying about your age would be creepy. There isn't an "asserted boundary" in this situation. She was wavering. So he still had a chance. I never once mentioned anything about lying about his age. Alot of people in this thread, other then myself and mesmerized, agree that someone 29 shouldn't be dating someone 20. Hence the "us". I don't need to read the thread to you. You can do that yourself. Yes, and a lot of people disagree that a 29 yr old should date a 20 yr old if she consents. No where did the OP ask if this relationship was legal. Yet this is the only response you keep giving. I repeat, no where did the OP ask if the relationship was legal. All he did was ask if it was "creepy". Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it can't be creepy. And that is quite simply the reality. You, like BQ, simply saying something is "hogwash" doesn't make it so. No where did the OP ask if this relationship was about emotional maturity. Yet this is the only response you keep giving. I repeat, no where did the OP ask if the relationship was about emotional maturity. I am sure you make lots of choices everyday to do or not do something even though they are legal either way. Based on how you want to live your life and move toward your personal goals. So your argument about something being legal equaling the only reason to do or not do something, doesn't make much sense in the context of reality and real life and the choices we all make everyday. I don't wanna talk about my life, what I do, what my views about the law are. I want to talk about the OP's topic: a 29 yr old dating a 20 yr old. You're the one here who wants to veer off-topic. Why do you insist on this?
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 And people are bascially saying , "I think it's icky", they are also giving rational reasons why they believe that. What is not rationale is suggesting that simpy thinking something is icky with no reason behind it is better then the reverse. Ridiculous. Rational reasons like emotional maturity? Stuff like that cannot be debated rationally but only irrationally.
wwwjd Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 No where did the OP ask if this relationship was about emotional maturity. If you get along, have fun, who cares about age??
dsw31 Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 If you get along, have fun, who cares about age?? Yeah you're right...go out have fun. Just beware...GIGS will be popping up before you know it! Bwaaaa Haaaaa Haaa! Ok,seriously, how long are we going to keep feeding the Moronovich troll?
dasein Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 What I did say was that someone older has more life experience and the reality is that in most cases, that puts that person at an advantage for their life experiences. And that creates an imbalance in a relationship. And that's not BS. Yeah, it is. Here's why. 1. You presume that all people are capable of processing and learning from life experience equally which is certainly not the case. I'm sure there are millions of 20 year olds with more emotional maturity, ethics, and self-awareness than millions of prospectively comparable 29 y.o.s and vice versa. 2. You neglect to account for "damaging" negative life experience. A war vet with PTSD (or any one of hundreds of other examples of unfavorable experience) is likely in a worse position with respect to "advantage" socially than a person without it, regardless of age. 3. Quantity does not equal quality generally where experience is concerned. A 29 y.o. may have spent their free time playing with xbox or my little pony while watching reruns of Jersey Shore, a 20 y.o. may have traveled the world. Age says nothing at all as to which. Trying to attribute experience "advantages" in dating strictly due to age is a total nonstarter.
make me believe Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 OP you don't sound like a creep (and you definitely don't sound all predatory like Oxy ), but I'm not surprised that this girl was not ok with your age. I've been a 20 year old girl (I'm 29 now) and hung out with a LOT of 20 year old girls, and I can tell you that pretty much without exception no 20 year olds that I knew would have been interested in a guy who is likely going to turn 30 before we can even buy our first legal drink. Actually I do know a couple right now where the guy is 30 and the girl is 20. And the reaction by everybody has been that it's creepy and weird. This girl is SUPER immature though, you'd think you were talking to a 15 year old when you talk to her. She lives with her parents, has never supported herself or paid her own bills, has a curfew, doesn't even know how to do laundry.. I can barely hold a conversation with her because she is so air-heady and immature (although she's nice), so I can't imagine what a 30 yr old man could possibly have in common. So yeah, in this type of situation the guy definitely comes off as creepy. What the OP described.. getting to know each other naturally at work etc, doesn't have the same bad vibe. But again, I'm not surprised that she wasn't interested.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 No! You should not feel like a creep! But if you were to keep after it, as one guy here advises, you probably should feel like a creep, especially considering that you work with this young woman and need to keep your relationship with her in a decent place. When I was 20, my boyfriend happened to be 29. It wasn't creepy or weird at all. We did live in a country where I could go to bars and clubs and drink. I do remember thinking of him as an "older man," which now makes me chuckle. 1
wwwjd Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 how does being legal DRINKING age make any difference what so ever in this scenario? If she was 21 (legal drinking) then it would be fine? One year? "Drinking" makes you mature? What am I missing? I'm actually being serious with this question, since "drinking age" has come up twice.
ASG Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Well considering the fact that she isn't even old enough to buy a drink... I'd say you're a creep. But whatever floats your boat...it's legal. Err... I know there's a lot of posters here from the US but not everyone is. And in most countries, the drinking age is 18. In my country it's 16. So don't assume...
dsw31 Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Err... I know there's a lot of posters here from the US but not everyone is. And in most countries, the drinking age is 18. In my country it's 16. So don't assume... I know that but, does that make it right? When KIDS who join the army at 18 come back with PTSD or even worse, do you think they really knew what they were getting themselves into?
make me believe Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 how does being legal DRINKING age make any difference what so ever in this scenario? If she was 21 (legal drinking) then it would be fine? One year? "Drinking" makes you mature? What am I missing? I'm actually being serious with this question, since "drinking age" has come up twice. No, of course drinking doesn't make you mature. But it's pretty common for people to want to party it up once they hit the legal drinking age, especially in the US where the legal age is so high. Presumably a guy in his 30s is not going to be that interested in hitting the bars & clubs with his 21 year old gf and her friends, or the younger gf isn't going to be interested in dragging her older bf with her when she starts going to clubs for the first time. Plus, I think the drinking age is just kind of an arbitrary cut off point in a lot of people's minds. Like, "she can't even order a drink!" just goes to show how young she is compared to the OP who has been able to order drinks for almost a decade. When the younger person finally hits legal age, their older partner has often been out of their partying stage for a few years & becomes annoyed at the younger one for wanting to go out all the time, etc. It just illustrates that they are likely at totally different stages of their lives.
Author Mr. Savage Posted May 5, 2012 Author Posted May 5, 2012 Man I've been reading all the posts here and I like the fact that we are keeping the conversation engaging yet civil. Very good points coming from both sides of the spectrum. I dont see either party convincing the other of what is right or wrong though. It's funny cause the original post was obviously a part of my psyche being insecure about being portrayed as a "creep" but trying to lighten it up with a playful post. After reading all the posts it appears there are many different view points on the matter and all I can do is read them all and give my final opinion. I truly believe that maturity and intelligence can not be defined by age. And anyone that cares to express their opinion based off a persons age with no knowlege of their persona is ignorant. However age is age and theres no way to sugar coat around it. People will either be comfortable with it or they wont. I took the gamble to see if someone was comfortable with it and they weren't and I used this forum to start a somewhat rather interesting conversation on the topic and have gotten many interesting responses which led me to my opinion that you will never know where someone stands unless you take the chance to find out. Peace out yall! Have a good night!
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 how does being legal DRINKING age make any difference what so ever in this scenario? If she was 21 (legal drinking) then it would be fine? One year? "Drinking" makes you mature? What am I missing? I'm actually being serious with this question, since "drinking age" has come up twice. Because a person who is 29 might not enjoy having to NEVER go on a date in a club, bar, over 21 music venue, etc.
PlumPrincess Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Alot of people in this thread, other then myself and mesmerized, agree that someone 29 shouldn't be dating someone 20. Hence the "us". I don't need to read the thread to you. You can do that yourself. No where did the OP ask if this relationship was legal. Yet this is the only response you keep giving. I repeat, no where did the OP ask if the relationship was legal. All he did was ask if it was "creepy". Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it can't be creepy. And that is quite simply the reality. You, like BQ, simply saying something is "hogwash" doesn't make it so. I am sure you make lots of choices everyday to do or not do something even though they are legal either way. Based on how you want to live your life and move toward your personal goals. So your argument about something being legal equaling the only reason to do or not do something, doesn't make much sense in the context of reality and real life and the choices we all make everyday. I also agree.
zengirl Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Because a person who is 29 might not enjoy having to NEVER go on a date in a club, bar, over 21 music venue, etc. Right, I would think this would be why many over 21s (especially older adults) wouldn't date under 21s. At the same time, 2 college-aged people, 20 and 22, which no one would find objectionable, could have the same challenge. So, I don't think the drinking age is some kind of magical line. Not that I really think YOU are asserting that it is, MC. There isn't an "asserted boundary" in this situation. She was wavering. So he still had a chance. I never once mentioned anything about lying about his age. She said he was too old for her and cancelled the date after learning his age. End of story, walk away, never consider that wavering, IMO. Any guy who pushes past that point reaches creepy status for sure. That IS an asserted boundary. Also, I didn't say you mentioned anything about lying -- I just said that would also be creepy, but the OP wisely decided to be honest & to respect her boundaries. Good for him.
Author Mr. Savage Posted May 5, 2012 Author Posted May 5, 2012 To lighten this up a bit, how many girls in their 20's who would consider it creepy dating a man 10 years older than them would not think twice if someone like Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, or George Clooney asked them to spend the rest of their lives with them.
xxoo Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 20 and 29? You're both in your 20s. How is this creepy? She's not comfortable with it, so it's a non-issue. But if you liked each other, and connected well, and were both comfortable with it, would you decide not to date because other people think it's creepy? I wouldn't care what other people think.
Author Mr. Savage Posted May 5, 2012 Author Posted May 5, 2012 20 and 29? You're both in your 20s. How is this creepy? She's not comfortable with it, so it's a non-issue. But if you liked each other, and connected well, and were both comfortable with it, would you decide not to date because other people think it's creepy? I wouldn't care what other people think. Oh hell no if the other party is comfortable with it it doesnt matter at all what society thinks. However in this situation they werent. Which sucks, cause I could tell she was really attracted to me. 1
wwwjd Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Because a person who is 29 might not enjoy having to NEVER go on a date in a club, bar, over 21 music venue, etc. Not to do the "EVERYONE" or "ALL PEOPLE" thang, but.... not everyone drinks. This IS life and fun outside of bars. I know, I've lived it. So, the whole "not drinking age" thing NEVER enters my mind. Let alone being some kind of marker point for anything. That's why I asked. I've dated a couple gals 10+ years my junior, and we got along great and never even thought about age. But I cover the spectrum of immature/mature myself so that helps.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Quote: Originally Posted by Mme. Chaucer Because a person who is 29 might not enjoy having to NEVER go on a date in a club, bar, over 21 music venue, etc. Not to do the "EVERYONE" or "ALL PEOPLE" thang, but.... not everyone drinks. This IS life and fun outside of bars. I know not everyone drinks. I don't drink at all. Not a drop. I simply said that a person who is 29 MIGHT not enjoy never going to 21 + venues with a date. MIGHT. When I was 20 and my boyfriend was 29, I very much was into a club scene in a country where you could go at my age. I met the guy in a club. So I don't think that particular relationship would have happened if I couldn't enter a club. Anyway, that's all beside the point because this particular 20 year old girl feels that a 29 year old guy is too old for her, and that's up to her.
zengirl Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Anyway, that's all beside the point because this particular 20 year old girl feels that a 29 year old guy is too old for her, and that's up to her. This is basically all there is to this situation. She has a particular boundary about age, and that's her right and her deal. The OP respected that by being both truthful and accepting of her boundary, making him the very definition of a non-creep, IMO.
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