Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Don't listen kinda talk, OP. A 29 yr old man dating a 20 yr old woman is legal. Many people will say that kinda relationship is wrong. But I've yet to see someone say it should be legal. How can you say that kinda relationship is wrong but think it should stay legal? The question wasn't, "Is this legal?" For the record, I think either a 29 year old woman or man dating someone 20 isn't cool in most cases. There may be rare exceptions but they are "rare exceptions". In general, I would question the emotional maturity of said 29 year old man or woman who was looking to connect with 20 year olds. 10 years is a big gap. And it's a big cap for someone that is barely in the world vs someone that's been in the world 9 years. When one person was 20, this other person was 10. Now if you were talk of a 30 year old woman and a 39 year old man? Or a 30 year old man and a 39 year old women? That's different. Although, since men judge harshly on age concerning women, it would bode women well to do the same when it comes to men. But that's a different topic.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Would you say the same for a 14 year old? what about 13? 10? I thought I was mature enough in all those ages. lol I'm simply saying that with a high probability, younger people aren't mature as they think they are. I'm sure very few 20 year old are even more mature than me or even my mother, but the majority aren't. Now go ahead and disagree. We all know men think with their penis in this case than their brain. Why on earth would you compare a 29 year old dating a 20 year old with a pedophile? Because when you get down to 10-year-olds, that's what you're dealing with. And last I checked, no one here is condoning that. You're taking a slippery slope argument and piledriving it into the bottomless pit of absurdity right now. As if you being an ignoramus on the US legal system and simultaneously making authoritative statements about what counts or doesn't count as "emotional abuse/distress" wasn't laughable enough.
mesmerized Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Why on earth would you compare a 29 year old dating a 20 year old with a pedophile? Because when you get down to 10-year-olds, that's what you're dealing with. And last I checked, no one here is condoning that. You're taking a slippery slope argument and piledriving it into the bottomless pit of absurdity right now. As if you being an ignoramus on the US legal system and simultaneously making authoritative statements about what counts or doesn't count as "emotional abuse/distress" wasn't laughable enough. I'm sorry that you are not smart enough to get my point which is very simple. He said she thinks she is mature enough, I said everyone thinks they are mature enough for their decisions no matter what age! That doesn't change the fact that the maturity of a 14 year old is significantly less than a 20 year old and also a 20 year old often significantly less than than a 30 year old. AND I have seen posters in this very forum that think a woman should be legal to sleep with as soon as she hit puberty (happened to me at 12). So I'm sure there are many guys who would do that too if they were not afraid of jail time. To them a 12 year old's consent would be pretty valid!
Titania22 Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Well considering the fact that she isn't even old enough to buy a drink... Depends what country you are in.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Well, Mr Iknowitall, can you tell me what percentage of emotionally abused people actually do sue their abuser and see the process to be worth the money/energy they spend? And what is exactly considered emotional abuse in a court? As I said emotional abuse can take many shapes or forms and a lot of them cant easily be defended in a court or more people would do it! I agree with your last sentence. But this does not refute the fact that emotional abuse is illegal in the United States. Would you say the same for a 14 year old? what about 13? 10? I thought I was mature enough in all those ages. lol I'm simply saying that with a high probability, younger people aren't mature as they think they are. I'm sure very few 20 year old are even more mature than me or even my mother, but the majority aren't. Now go ahead and disagree. We all know men think with their penis in this case than their brain. When I said mature I was talking about her age. In the United States, 18 is considered a mature adult who is legally old enough to be accountable for her decisions. Therefore, your analogy involving 14 yr olds is irrelevant. The question wasn't, "Is this legal?" For the record, I think either a 29 year old woman or man dating someone 20 isn't cool in most cases. There may be rare exceptions but they are "rare exceptions". In general, I would question the emotional maturity of said 29 year old man or woman who was looking to connect with 20 year olds. 10 years is a big gap. And it's a big cap for someone that is barely in the world vs someone that's been in the world 9 years. When one person was 20, this other person was 10. Now if you were talk of a 30 year old woman and a 39 year old man? Or a 30 year old man and a 39 year old women? That's different. Although, since men judge harshly on age concerning women, it would bode women well to do the same when it comes to men. But that's a different topic. Ok. Go ahead and question the emotional maturity of a 29 yr old man that wants to get with a 20 yr old woman. He's still within his legal rights if she consents to the relationship.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 And to bring things back to the OP, no, there's nothing in his conduct that is inherently "creepy."
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Ok. Go ahead and question the emotional maturity of a 29 yr old man that wants to get with a 20 yr old woman. He's still within his legal rights if she consents to the relationship. Umm,I never said he wasn't. Infact, I never made any mention of "legal aspects". I think you are really too closely tied to the "legal" aspect because you are not ready yourself to admit to the emotional aspects that involved a relationship with someone that is 20 vs someone that is 29. I do not understand your sensitivity regarding this topic. 1
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 And to bring things back to the OP, no, there's nothing in his conduct that is inherently "creepy." BQ, that's fine that's your opinion. But there will be those that do think his behavior is creepy. And that's fine too. They are allowed to. I would be creeped out if I ended up being attracted to a 20 year old. Are 20 year old's grown men? Depends on how you define what a man is. They certainly arne't 15 year olds. But to want to date a 20 year old? That's a little different. What is interesting is that the OP had the thought in his head to begin with that what he was doing held the possibility of being creepy. So I suspect, somewhere, despite saying the opposite, that a part of him felt a little creeped out.
mesmerized Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Umm,I never said he wasn't. Infact, I never made any mention of "legal aspects". I think you are really too closely tied to the "legal" aspect because you are not ready yourself to admit to the emotional aspects that involved a relationship with someone that is 20 vs someone that is 29. I do not understand your sensitivity regarding this topic. Exactly. He can't possibly be dense enough to think legal is an absolute equal to moral/right. But men will use anything to rationalize things that make their penis happy. Some women do these rationalizations for their own selfish reasons too, but to a lesser extent I find.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 And to bring things back to the OP, no, there's nothing in his conduct that is inherently "creepy." I agree. The dude was honest and straightforward. What's creepy about that? Umm,I never said he wasn't. Infact, I never made any mention of "legal aspects". I think you are really too closely tied to the "legal" aspect because you are not ready yourself to admit to the emotional aspects that involved a relationship with someone that is 20 vs someone that is 29. "Emotional aspects"? I don't know what you're talking about. And you're probably the only one who does know what you're talking about. I do not understand your sensitivity regarding this topic. The feeling is mutual.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 BQ, that's fine that's your opinion. But there will be those that do think his behavior is creepy. And that's fine too. They are allowed to. I would be creeped out if I ended up being attracted to a 20 year old. Are 20 year old's grown men? Depends on how you define what a man is. They certainly arne't 15 year olds. But to want to date a 20 year old? That's a little different. What is interesting is that the OP had the thought in his head to begin with that what he was doing held the possibility of being creepy. So I suspect, somewhere, despite saying the opposite, that a part of him felt a little creeped out. I don't foresee myself actively going after ONLY 20 year-olds when I turn 30, but if I meet one that I fancy, I don't think her age would make me a creep. If I'm 30 and a 20 year old just wants a fling, again, I don't see anything creepy about it either. There's no legal argument against such an arrangement, and any moral argument tends to fall flat on its face too. This whole idea that women in their early 20s are so easily manipulated by older men is hogwash. A lot of the time, the exact opposite happens. Either way, it's not a dynamic that has really been studied, so trying to say that dating someone a certain age is "right" or "wrong" is a losing proposition. 1
SJC2008 Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 At 30 I'd be uncomf dating a 20 year old. My minimum is 23 and I'm a little weary about that. But then again I don't have serious exp so It may be for the better. I think I'm going to try to meet a girl up at school. I sometimes catch some girls up there eyeing me but my age there's a mental block, not that I'd approach anyway.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 "Emotional aspects"? I don't know what you're talking about. And you're probably the only one who does know what you're talking about. I can gaurentee you I am not. You seriously do not see a different between a 20 year old dating a 29 year old and a 30 year old dating a 39 year old? Come on. I'm sure you do. The feeling is mutual No it's not. You simply used this as a means of deflection to not get real about your feelings.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I don't foresee myself actively going after ONLY 20 year-olds when I turn 30, but if I meet one that I fancy, I don't think her age would make me a creep. If I'm 30 and a 20 year old just wants a fling, again, I don't see anything creepy about it either. There's no legal argument against such an arrangement, and any moral argument tends to fall flat on its face too. This whole idea that women in their early 20s are so easily manipulated by older men is hogwash. A lot of the time, the exact opposite happens. Either way, it's not a dynamic that has really been studied, so trying to say that dating someone a certain age is "right" or "wrong" is a losing proposition. Again, not one person here said someone 29 dating someone 20 was illegal. Comments regarding this are nothing but distractions to the actual topic. Which is infact an issue based on personal morals. You are never going to convince some people that a person of 29 dating someone 20 isn't creepy to them. Anymore then they will convince you that it is. You saying "it's hogwash" doesn't make it so either. And no, "alot of the time" younger women are not taking advantage of older guys. You can't argue that point then in your next sentence say it hasn't been studied enough to know anyway. That is imbalanced. If younger women are taken advantage of older men, then these older men must be SUPER immature and have lived very very sheltered lives.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Again, not one person here said someone 29 dating someone 20 was illegal. Comments regarding this are nothing but distractions to the actual topic. Which is infact an issue based on personal morals. You are never going to convince some people that a person of 29 dating someone 20 isn't creepy to them. Anymore then they will convince you that it is. You saying "it's hogwash" doesn't make it so either. And no, "alot of the time" younger women are not taking advantage of older guys. You can't argue that point then in your next sentence say it hasn't been studied enough to know anyway. That is imbalanced. If younger women are taken advantage of older men, then these older men must be SUPER immature and have lived very very sheltered lives. I don't think having the personal moral viewpoint that you do is "hogwash." But if you base that viewpoint on the notion that women in their early 20s are inherently less capable of being deceptive or manipulative than men in their 30s, it IS hogwash. What exactly is a 29 year old guy capable of doing in a relationship that a 20 year old isn't? Both can lie, both can cheat, both can manipulate the other one to do their bidding even if it isn't in their best interest, etc. Even the most hawkish parents are deceived by their teenage children; do you really think people lose that ability by age 20?
Teknoe Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I do find it a bit creepy when near 30 year old men are adamant on dating 21 or younger girls, yes. Now if you're 30 and happen to fancy a girl who is 20-21, I can see that. But if you're consciously thinking "I'm going after 20-22 year olds only because ____" then yes, that is a bit creepy, and not what I'd call behaviors befitting a healthy man. The thing is, if you're 30 and you're targeting early 20s, that tells me you aren't mature enough to handle a woman your age and you're trying to go for the inexperience slant. The irony is, the older you get, the harder it becomes to date someone in their early 20s.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I can gaurentee you I am not. How can you guarantee it? You seriously do not see a different between a 20 year old dating a 29 year old and a 30 year old dating a 39 year old? Come on. I'm sure you do. Where did the 30 and 39 yr old come from? I thought we were only talking about 20 and 29 yr olds? You and mesmerized keep bringing up different age groups. Not only is this confusing, it doesn't add to your argument. And, to be honest, I do not know what your argument is. No it's not. You simply used this as a means of deflection to not get real about your feelings. Since when do you know so much about me? Again, not one person here said someone 29 dating someone 20 was illegal. Comments regarding this are nothing but distractions to the actual topic. Which is infact an issue based on personal morals. You are never going to convince some people that a person of 29 dating someone 20 isn't creepy to them. Anymore then they will convince you that it is. You saying "it's hogwash" doesn't make it so either. And no, "alot of the time" younger women are not taking advantage of older guys. You can't argue that point then in your next sentence say it hasn't been studied enough to know anyway. That is imbalanced. If younger women are taken advantage of older men, then these older men must be SUPER immature and have lived very very sheltered lives. I brought up the aspect of legality. If you think it should be legal for a 20 yr old to date a 29 yr old then you lack a strong reason to be against it.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I don't think having the personal moral viewpoint that you do is "hogwash." But if you base that viewpoint on the notion that women in their early 20s are inherently less capable of being deceptive or manipulative than men in their 30s, it IS hogwash. What exactly is a 29 year old guy capable of doing in a relationship that a 20 year old isn't? Both can lie, both can cheat, both can manipulate the other one to do their bidding even if it isn't in their best interest, etc. Even the most hawkish parents are deceived by their teenage children; do you really think people lose that ability by age 20? I am not arguing each individual person's ability to lie. I argue the perception that older men are more often taken advantage of by younger women then the reverse, which is what you implied. The reality is that someone 29, by the time they reach 29, has had more life experience and information to pool from then someone who is 20. Someone who is 20 still may not even be living in the real world. Such as going to college, working part time, involved with parties and studies. Vs someone 29 who most likely has a whole different type of life, work and other responsibilities. It is logical to assume that in most cases a 29 year old is going to have different life experiences and more maturity from those life experiences then someone 20. And if they don't, then that person is incredibly sheltered. Now if you want to talk someone 30 and 39? That changes the story. But someone 20 is going to change A LOT before they reach 29 themselves. I changed so much from 20-25.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I do find it a bit creepy when near 30 year old men are adamant on dating 21 or younger girls, yes. Now if you're 30 and happen to fancy a girl who is 20-21, I can see that. But if you're consciously thinking "I'm going after 20-22 year olds only because ____" then yes, that is a bit creepy, and not what I'd call behaviors befitting a healthy man. The thing is, if you're 30 and you're targeting early 20s, that tells me you aren't mature enough to handle a woman your age and you're trying to go for the inexperience slant. The irony is, the older you get, the harder it becomes to date someone in their early 20s. I've got 2 responses to this. First, we don't know what situation the OP is in. He could have very well have happened to fancy a 20 yr old. Not once in this thread has the OP stated he was consciously prowling for her. Secondly, the older you get, dating becomes harder no matter who you date.
dasein Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 One of the biggest problems in our culture is the notion of "extended childhood," that people of legal age are somehow still mental or emotional children in need of protection. 99% of the time, this comes up when talking about young women, almost never young men. And yes, it is total hogwash. As long as it's legal, what people do and with whom is their own business, not subject to -your- or -my- judgment, valid judgment anyway. There are plenty of examples of bad behavior to judge in our culture, a 9 year age difference between two consenting adults, though, is not one.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 The reality is that someone 29, by the time they reach 29, has had more life experience and information to pool from then someone who is 20. Someone who is 20 still may not even be living in the real world. Such as going to college, working part time, involved with parties and studies. Vs someone 29 who most likely has a whole different type of life, work and other responsibilities. It is logical to assume that in most cases a 29 year old is going to have different life experiences and more maturity from those life experiences then someone 20. And if they don't, then that person is incredibly sheltered. What does life experiences have to do with a 20 yr old's legal right to date whoever she wants to?
Disenchantedly Yours Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Oxy Moronovich How can you guarantee it? Read the post over again, a lot of us agree. Where did the 30 and 39 yr old come from? I thought we were only talking about 20 and 29 yr olds? You and mesmerized keep bringing up different age groups. Not only is this confusing, it doesn't add to your argument. And, to be honest, I do not know what your argument is. Come on, you can't be this thick. the 30 and 39 year old dating example was brought about to highlight the difference in someone in that age range dating vs someone 20 vs 29. You really see no difference between someone 20 and 29 dating vs. 30 and 39? How old are you? I brought up the aspect of legality. And it was pointless to do so. No where did the OP ask if it was legal. If you think it should be legal for a 20 yr old to date a 29 yr old then you lack a strong reason to be against it. You're argument makes no sense. Life is not based on simple matters of what is legal and what isn't. There are lots of legal things that happen everyday that I don't agree with. And if you were honest, I think you would find the same about yuorself.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Read the post over again, a lot of us agree. Only one person seems to agree with you: mesmerized. She's long since left. So I don't know how one person counts as "a lot of us". Come on, you can't be this thick. the 30 and 39 year old dating example was brought about to highlight the difference in someone in that age range dating vs someone 20 vs 29. You really see no difference between someone 20 and 29 dating vs. 30 and 39? How old are you? There is a difference between people in their 20s dating vs people in their 30s dating. But what does this have to do with the OP? And it was pointless to do so. No where did the OP ask if it was legal. No where did the OP ask about emotional maturity. Yet you brought it up. You're argument makes no sense. Life is not based on simple matters of what is legal and what isn't. There are lots of legal things that happen everyday that I don't agree with. And if you were honest, I think you would find the same about yuorself. I'm not talking about life in general or laws I do not agree with. I don't wanna talk about that stuff because it would mean the thread will veer wildly off-topic. I'm sticking on-topic. I am talking only about the OP's situation: a 20 yr old woman dating a 29 yr old man. It's a legal relationship that is consensual. The arguments against it are hogwash.
jennisfora Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 i would have trepidations, if i were the OP, because at 20 it is unlikely that it would be a long term relationship, least not marriage, or anything that extreme without it ending in heartbreak, but just going out on a date, i see as harmless. of course, said 20 year old would have to be accepting of the age gap, and in this case, was not. i also would find it creepy if the OP was only wanting to date 20 year olds, just because that would be abnormal, but someone he sees in a work situation, and develops an attraction toward, isn't creepy to me, i guess largely because he wouldn't have been scoping her out because of her age, but because he sees her on a regular basis, and her age just happens to be twenty.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I am not arguing each individual person's ability to lie. I argue the perception that older men are more often taken advantage of by younger women then the reverse, which is what you implied. The reality is that someone 29, by the time they reach 29, has had more life experience and information to pool from then someone who is 20. Someone who is 20 still may not even be living in the real world. Such as going to college, working part time, involved with parties and studies. Vs someone 29 who most likely has a whole different type of life, work and other responsibilities. It is logical to assume that in most cases a 29 year old is going to have different life experiences and more maturity from those life experiences then someone 20. And if they don't, then that person is incredibly sheltered. Now if you want to talk someone 30 and 39? That changes the story. But someone 20 is going to change A LOT before they reach 29 themselves. I changed so much from 20-25. I didn't imply anything. I said that both the younger and older person have a relatively equal propensity to behave poorly in a relationship. Sure, the average 29 year old has "more life experience," but that doesn't inherently make that person more likely to be manipulative or to treat the partner like garbage. Age has very little to do with how deceptive and manipulative one can be. The whole idea that a 29 year old going out with a 20 year old is creepy because the 29 year old has some sort of crazy advantage is BS. Honestly, if people just said "I don't like it because I think it's icky," that would make more sense. Trying to implement an empirical rationale for this very moral, instinctual reaction is pretty senseless. 1
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