mesmerized Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Don't listen kinda talk, OP. A 29 yr old man dating a 20 yr old woman is legal. Many people will say that kinda relationship is wrong. But I've yet to see someone say it should be legal. How can you say that kinda relationship is wrong but think it should stay legal? lol love the logic! Cheating in a relationship/marriage is also "legal" but "wrong" to most people, so are a lot of other things. Just because they don't throw you in jail for something, doesn't mean you should do it. In the case of a 29 year old dating a 20 year old, well personally I think having sex is not a huge deal. But the guy is MOST often out of his mind if he thinks he is gonna be able to have a long lasting relationship with her anyway. The majority of young girls/guys who don't get to play the field or experience life by themselves end up cheating later or just want out to get to know themselves. This is extremely prevalent and I see it among my friends all the time. I dated someone about 10 years older a few years ago, I pretended as if it wasn't an issue for me. But it was and I always knew it wasn't gonna last.
Feelsgoodman Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I'm 29 but dont look it. I started chatting up this girl at work, shes 20. I knew that. She didn't know I was 29. Some text message flirting ensued over the past day and I asked her on a date then she asked, how old are you. I told her. That was the end of that, lol. Dating younger chicks is not creepy as long as you're not breaking any laws. Dating much older women, on the other hand...yikes!
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 lol love the logic! Cheating in a relationship/marriage is also "legal" but "wrong" to most people, so are a lot of other things. Just because they don't throw you in jail for something, doesn't mean you should do it. In the case of a 29 year old dating a 20 year old, well personally I think having sex is not a huge deal. But the guy is MOST often out of his mind if he thinks he is gonna be able to have a long lasting relationship with her anyway. The majority of young girls/guys who don't get to play the field or experience life by themselves end up cheating later or just want out to get to know themselves. This is extremely prevalent and I see it among my friends all the time. I dated someone about 10 years older a few years ago, I pretended as if it wasn't an issue for me. But it was and I always knew it wasn't gonna last. Yes, and I love it when people use the cheating analogy. Here's how I counter that, with one word: consent. With cheating, one party is not consenting to be cheated on. That's what makes cheating wrong. With a 29 yr old dating a 20 yr old, they are both grown adults consenting to the relationship (not in this case). Therefore, your cheating analogy is way off. And my logic is spot on.
Art_Critic Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 A 29 yr old man dating a 20 yr old woman is legal. Legal and right or moral are 2 very different things. Since when is okay to do anything just because it is legal. You could call your Mother a biotch and tell her to eff off and it is legal.. but would you do that ? 2
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Dating younger chicks is not creepy as long as you're not breaking any laws. Dating much older women, on the other hand...yikes! I don't think either is creepy. A hot woman is a hot woman. 18-50 is my range, anyways Mr. Savage, if a woman looks good and wants you, there isn't anything morally repugnant about dating her/sleeping with her or whatever arrangement you want. I wouldn't let the opinions of some of our stuffier posters dissuade you from doing what you please in the future. 1
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Legal and right or moral are 2 very different things. Since when is okay to do anything just because it is legal. You could call your Mother a biotch and tell her to eff off and it is legal.. but would you do that ? Once again, I use one word: consent. My mother is not consenting to be labeled a biotch. So it's wrong. However, a 29 yr old and a 20 yr old who willingly get into a relationship are consenting. Thus, you cannot compare your analogy to people dating.
Art_Critic Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 But the 20 year old in THIS thread didn't consent to go on the date.. she obviously is aware of the age difference.. why aren't you ?
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 But the 20 year old in THIS thread didn't consent to go on the date.. she obviously is aware of the age difference.. why aren't you ? So you're saying you wouldn't make any fuss about it if she had consented?
mesmerized Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Yes, and I love it when people use the cheating analogy. Here's how I counter that, with one word: consent. With cheating, one party is not consenting to be cheated on. That's what makes cheating wrong. With a 29 yr old dating a 20 yr old, they are both grown adults consenting to the relationship (not in this case). Therefore, your cheating analogy is way off. And my logic is spot on. You'd be surprised how many people rationalize their cheating. And cheating is not the only example. Let's say someone let you abuse them emotionally and still stays with you, should you do it? A lot of examples can be given. Consent or legality alone doesn't warrant something being "right". About a 20 year old being a grown adult...well law says that but do you really believe that's true? There are places that set the age of consent at 15, would you still count on her consent? It's a very gray area to people who don't see themselves on the same level as a 20 year old. Maybe he or you have the same maturity, I wouldn't know. I do know though, even as a woman it's much easier for me to control or even abuse a younger guy than an older one. I imagine for men it's even easier. Now if he said 30 and 40 year old or a 40 and 50, I wouldn't care. They hopefully have both seen enough of life to know what they are doing. 20, not so much. Relationships that happen that early in life tend not to last for a reason.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 You'd be surprised how many people rationalize their cheating. And cheating is not the only example. Let's say someone let you abuse them emotionally and still stays with you, should you do it? A lot of examples can be given. Consent or legality alone doesn't warrant something being "right". Here's another bad analogy. Someone can sue you for emotional abuse. Google, "suing for emotional abuse." It's against the law to inflict emotional abuse. It's not against the law for a 20 yr old and a 29 yr old to date. About a 20 year old being a grown adult...well law says that but do you really believe that's true? There are places that set the age of consent at 15, would you still count on her consent? It's a very gray area to people who don't see themselves on the same level as a 20 year old. Maybe he or you have the same maturity, I wouldn't know. I do know though, even as a woman it's much easier for me to control or even abuse a younger guy than an older one. I imagine for men it's even easier. Now if he said 30 and 40 year old or a 40 and 50, I wouldn't care. They hopefully have both seen enough of life to know what they are doing. 20, not so much. Relationships that happen that early in life tend not to last for a reason. I believe a woman over 30 is just as likely to be abused as a 20 yr old. There are many cases where a woman over 30 is abused by someone her own age or even a man in his 20s. I also don't believe a relationship that starts late in age is more likely to stay stable. I google "divorce among older couples". It looks like divorce among people over 35 is increasing. Some articles say more than divorce among younger couples. A relationship is molded due to the two people involved. A 29 yr old and a 20 yr old aren't more likely to have weak, abusive relationships than other couples.
Thieves Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) You gotta learn how to parry the conversation and lead them in the direction you want when speaking to women. Women will say a lot of things but do another. They'll say they don't want men to abuse them but be in abusive relaitonships. They'll say they won't have sex with a loser, but there are millions of women who had kids with deadbeats. Many women will say they won't date a man over 10 yrs older than they are, but many women marry much older men. Don't take a woman's answer at face value. Wow. I apologize, Oxy, but I think this is one of the worst things you could advise to the OP. Especially the bolded parts above. I don't think you meant much harm, but it's still just as disrespectful. If a woman says No, it doesn't matter if she changes her mind on her own a day or a week later. Right now, she said no, therefore she means means no. And as much as I understand your logic in this post, especially in relation to the topic of age at hand, I can't say I completely approve of it either. Sure, being able to lean someone towards accepting your way of thinking can be a good character trait and could work out positively for a person at times, but in general, especially when it comes to relationships and sex with women, it's good to tread carefully. Whether indecisive or hypocritical, that type of behavior in a woman -- being inconsistent with her words versus her actions -- will fall specifically upon that woman. That is her own flaw, and not a very good one to have in a potential partner. Eventually, hopefully, said woman will begin to learn the importance of truly saying and doing what she means. However, it is very irritating and disrespectful to see some people say to disregard a woman's decision or opinions at face value because "women will say a lot of things but do another anyway." Does that mean it's okay for a man to keep pushing for sex or a relationship, even if the woman's said "No" four times? "No" means "no" at that time, and that is that. At 29, I expect the OP has learned to respect someone's decision and will not attempt to 'persuade' her against her dealbreakers in dating when she's reluctant to do so. She has to make that decision. So no, OP, you don't seem like a creep at all -- you seem like a good guy. But do take a woman's answer at face value. If she doesn't want to date you because of your age, her loss, and time to move on to find a quality woman who will... Edited May 4, 2012 by Thieves
dsw31 Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 You'd be surprised how many people rationalize their cheating. And cheating is not the only example. Let's say someone let you abuse them emotionally and still stays with you, should you do it? A lot of examples can be given. Consent or legality alone doesn't warrant something being "right". About a 20 year old being a grown adult...well law says that but do you really believe that's true? There are places that set the age of consent at 15, would you still count on her consent? It's a very gray area to people who don't see themselves on the same level as a 20 year old. Maybe he or you have the same maturity, I wouldn't know. I do know though, even as a woman it's much easier for me to control or even abuse a younger guy than an older one. I imagine for men it's even easier. Now if he said 30 and 40 year old or a 40 and 50, I wouldn't care. They hopefully have both seen enough of life to know what they are doing. 20, not so much. Relationships that happen that early in life tend not to last for a reason. You nailed it!
mesmerized Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Here's another bad analogy. Someone can sue you for emotional abuse. Google, "suing for emotional abuse." It's against the law to inflict emotional abuse. It's not against the law for a 20 yr old and a 29 yr old to date. Emotional abuse can take many forms and you're delusional if you think people are actually sued for that to the point I believe a woman over 30 is just as likely to be abused as a 20 yr old. There are many cases where a woman over 30 is abused by someone her own age or even a man in his 20s. I also don't believe a relationship that starts late in age is more likely to stay stable. I google "divorce among older couples". It looks like divorce among people over 35 is increasing. Some articles say more than divorce among younger couples. A relationship is molded due to the two people involved. A 29 yr old and a 20 yr old aren't more likely to have weak, abusive relationships than other couples. lol, I've read many articles all stating divorce among younger couples is more prevalent. Google divorce statisics, as simple as that and you can see divorce statistics for the country you are in. No need to even read any article! yes they are, simply because a 20 year old is more likely to be naive and not know what they want. Are you really denying that most people change drasitically in their twenties? Wow, the extent to which people go to rationalize their wants. I almost have no doubt you would say the same things even if we talked about a 14 year old, given it was legal.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 But the 20 year old in THIS thread didn't consent to go on the date.. she obviously is aware of the age difference.. why aren't you ? Yes, she is aware of the age difference, but that doesn't mean that every 20 year old is going to look at it as a dealbreaker. I think the responses telling Mr. Savage that he isn't a creep are simply reinforcing the notion that he shouldn't be discouraged from dating someone that age if it comes up in the future.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Wow. I apologize, Oxy, but I think this is one of the worst things you could advise to the OP. Especially the bolded parts above. I don't think you meant much harm, but it's still just as disrespectful. If a woman says No, it doesn't matter if she changes her mind on her own a day or a week later. Right now, she said no, therefore she means means no. And as much as I understand your logic in this post, especially in relation to this topic of age at hand, I can't say I completely approve of it either. Sure, being able to lean someone towards accepting your way of thinking can be a good character trait and could work out positively for a person at times, but in general, especially when it comes to relationships and sex with women, it's good to tread carefully. Whether indecisive or hypocritical, that type of behavior in a woman -- being inconsistent with her words versus her actions -- will fall specifically upon that woman. That is her own flaw, and not a very good one to have in a potential partner. Eventually, hopefully, said woman will begin to learn the importance of truly saying and doing what she means. However, it is very irritating and disrespectful to see some people say to disregard a woman's decision or opinions at face value because "women will say a lot of things but do another anyway." Does that mean it's okay for a man to keep pushing for sex or a relationship, even if the woman's said "No" four times? "No" means "no" at that time, and that is that. At 29, I expect the OP has learned to respect someone's decision and will not attempt to 'persuade' her against her dealbreakers in dating when she's reluctant to do so. She has to make that decision. So no, OP, you don't seem like a creep at all -- you seem like a good guy. But do take a woman's answer at face value. If she doesn't want to date you because of your age, her loss, and time to move on to find a quality woman who will... The problem is women aren't direct. Passive-aggressive is the only way women know how to communicate: giving subtle hints to men they like; giving phone numbers to men they don't like because they do not want to be direct, only for them to not answer the phone; telling a guy, "I just wanna be friends" when he shows interest; flirting with a guy for an ego-boost/attention and pretending to be shocked when he asks for a date; and even the way women fight with each other is passive-aggressive--it's always behind the back and never direct. I understand if a woman definitely says no then I'd say back off. But the chick in the OP's post was wavering. He should have persuaded her.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I understand if a woman definitely says no then I'd say back off. But the chick in the OP's post was wavering. He should have persuaded her. Agreed. If our fathers/grandfathers/great-grandfathers etc.etc.etc. weren't persistent in their attempts to woo a woman, a very large portion of us wouldn't be alive today. 1
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Emotional abuse can take many forms and you're delusional if you think people are actually sued for that to the point CSI Miami star David Caruso's girlfriend filed a suit for emotional abuse. I guess I'm delusional for having evidence to backup my statement. David Caruso's ex-girlfriend sues over alleged emotional abuse | Celebrity gossip blog: The Juice* | Tampa Bay Times and tbt* lol, I've read many articles all stating divorce among younger couples is more prevalent. Google divorce statisics, as simple as that and you can see divorce statistics for the country you are in. No need to even read any article! yes they are, simply because a 20 year old is more likely to be naive and not know what they want. Are you really denying that most people change drasitically in their twenties? Wow, the extent to which people go to rationalize their wants. I almost have no doubt you would say the same things even if we talked about a 14 year old, given it was legal. Here's an article I just read that said (dates April 23, 2012), As recently as 2009, one out of every four people getting a divorce was over the age of 50. Press Release - Divorce Rate on the Rise for Older Couples That's over the age of 50. When I say older couples that means 30+. Therefore, I'm sure the age of older couples is more than 50%. I'm not denying people drastically change in their 20s. I'm denying your assertion that people over 30 are less likely to be in abusive relationships. If a 20 yr old wants to date a 29 yr old, then she's consenting to a legal relationship. Your argument that she's too naive isn't an equation here.
Art_Critic Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 The OP.. in case someone forgets what this thread is about... Should I feel like a creep? Cause I dont feel like one. I'm 29 but dont look it. I started chatting up this girl at work, shes 20. I knew that. She didn't know I was 29. Some text message flirting ensued over the past day and I asked her on a date then she asked, how old are you. I told her. That was the end of that, lol.
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Agreed. If our fathers/grandfathers/great-grandfathers etc.etc.etc. weren't persistent in their attempts to woo a woman, a very large portion of us wouldn't be alive today. Exactly. The first girl I ever fell in love with was cold toward me. She never directly said no. But she she was quite standoffish for 3--yes, 3 months before she finally went out with me: when I sat next to her to eat, she would get up and go somewhere else; when I went to talk to her she might pull out her cell phone and pretend to fiddle with it; when I greeted her she barely nodded. Less than a year after out first date we were talking about marriage.
mesmerized Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) CSI Miami star David Caruso's girlfriend filed a suit for emotional abuse. I guess I'm delusional for having evidence to backup my statement. David Caruso's ex-girlfriend sues over alleged emotional abuse | Celebrity gossip blog: The Juice* | Tampa Bay Times and tbt* In the US you can sue people for anything lol Emotionsal abuse if not in an extreme manner is not something most people go to court and pay to lawyers for. And yes, I still think you're delusional if these few cases make it "illegal". Here's an article I just read that said (dates April 23, 2012), Press Release - Divorce Rate on the Rise for Older Couples That's over the age of 50. When I say older couples that means 30+. Therefore, I'm sure the age of older couples is more than 50%. I'm not denying people drastically change in their 20s. I'm denying your assertion that people over 30 are less likely to be in abusive relationships. If a 20 yr old wants to date a 29 yr old, then she's consenting to a legal relationship. Your argument that she's too naive isn't an equation here.2 things, first, just because these couples are older doesn't mean they MARRIED older. Second, divorce rate is on the rise for couples that married at any age. Give me stats that say it's about the same as couples who marry and get together young. A woman over 30 is less likely to be manipulate or abused than a 20 year old. I say this as a woman in my twenties. I'm definitely MUCH less likely to be manipulated than when I was younger as I've grown and know what I want. I can only imagine a lot of people are in the same shoes. Sure she is consenting, but does she really know what she is consenting to? This is my point which you don't wanna see. Edited May 4, 2012 by mesmerized
TheBigQuestion Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 In the US you can sue people for anything lol Emotionsal abuse if not in an extreme manner is not something most people go to court and pay to lawyers for. And yes, I still think you're delusional if these few cases make it "illegal". It's not just "a few cases." Intentional/Negligent infliction of emotional distress is a valid cause of action in virtually every common law jurisdiction (basically any country that the UK ever had dominion over). There's no delusion about it, and it isn't even anything all that new. Plenty of US criminal codes also have provisions that forbid harassment, bullying, and other forms of mental abuse. If you aren't from the US and don't know anything about our legal system, stop making assumptions about what a US resident says is or isn't illegal, because it makes you look like an idiot. 1
Oxy Moronovich Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 In the US you can sue people for anything lol Emotionsal abuse if not in an extreme manner is not something most people go to court and pay to lawyers for. And yes, I still think you're delusional if these few cases make it "illegal". It doesn't matter if there are a few or a few thousand cases; if you can get sued for it then it's illegal. I've never seen a grown adult get sued for dating another grown adult. Therefore, your correlation between the 20 and 29 yr old and emotional abuse is still out of wack. 2 things, first, just because these couples are older doesn't mean they MARRIED older. Second, divorce rate is on the rise for couples that married at any age. Give me stats that say it's about the same as couples who marry and get together young. A woman over 30 is less likely to be manipulate or abused than a 20 year old. I say this as a woman in my twenties. I'm definitely MUCH less likely to be manipulated than when I was younger as I've grown and know what I want. I can only imagine a lot of people are in the same shoes. Sure she is consenting, but does she really know what she is consenting to? This is my point which you don't wanna see. I see your point. I don't agree with it. The 20 yr old is not you. She's her own woman. If she believes she's mature enough to handle a 29 yr old then who are you to say otherwise?
mesmerized Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 It's not just "a few cases." Intentional/Negligent infliction of emotional distress is a valid cause of action in virtually every common law jurisdiction (basically any country that the UK ever had dominion over). There's no delusion about it, and it isn't even anything all that new. Plenty of US criminal codes also have provisions that forbid harassment, bullying, and other forms of mental abuse. If you aren't from the US and don't know anything about our legal system, stop making assumptions about what a US resident says is or isn't illegal, because it makes you look like an idiot. Well, Mr Iknowitall, can you tell me what percentage of emotionally abused people actually do sue their abuser and see the process to be worth the money/energy they spend? And what is exactly considered emotional abuse in a court? As I said emotional abuse can take many shapes or forms and a lot of them cant easily be defended in a court or more people would do it!
mesmerized Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I see your point. I don't agree with it. The 20 yr old is not you. She's her own woman. If she believes she's mature enough to handle a 29 yr old then who are you to say otherwise? Would you say the same for a 14 year old? what about 13? 10? I thought I was mature enough in all those ages. lol I'm simply saying that with a high probability, younger people aren't mature as they think they are. I'm sure very few 20 year old are even more mature than me or even my mother, but the majority aren't. Now go ahead and disagree. We all know men think with their penis in this case than their brain.
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