2sunny Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I understand - is your W doing more effort than you? Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) I understand - is your W doing more effort than you? She is persuing the relationship with me. I'm not so good about quantifying this sort of stuff. But she makes the dates, pays for the dinner, etc. She removed her profile from the dating site. She wants to put me on her cell phone plan, get me a genius phone. She is making a lot of plans for her to come home. I don't act distant with her. We both show each other affection. *The financials might sound a little weird, but my wife is younger about 9 years. She is in the middle of her second career, a change I underwrote and I am retired. Edited May 8, 2012 by trader added* Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 She is persuing the relationship with me. I'm not so good about quantifying this sort of stuff. But she makes the dates, pays for the dinner, etc. She removed her profile from the dating site. She wants to put me on her cell phone plan, get me a genius phone. She is making a lot of plans for her to come home. I don't act distant with her. We both show each other affection. *The financials might sound a little weird, but my wife is younger about 9 years. She is in the middle of her second career, a change I underwrote and I am retired. None of this tells us that the CORE BEING of her has changed. If its her priority - shed be IN COUNSELING - like yesterday!!! Her moral compass is way off - and she not doing things to grow and understand what is broken within her. You can't do this FOR HER... And you acting like everything is just fine will only delay her growth. Sorry if you think that's gloomy - its not - it's just REAL! Link to post Share on other sites
Bellechica Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Trader, I know you mentioned earlier that IC might be difficult for your W, but I agree with 2Sunny that this is essential for your W to get some help. She doesn't need to view this as a punishment, IC should be something she WANTS to do if she is to improve herself. Again, what are the reasons she's giving you for not seeking IC? Although there are people out there who are sieral cheaters who love the chase and don't want to change, I believe there are many of us who never want to repeat their mistakes or reasons for cheating. Ask her again, why IC isn't possible. It may help foster things for the two of you to discuss. I agree with you that communication is essential right now and it sounds like she is willing to work on that with you. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Look, you either set high standards to take her back or you don't. The former choice will help you have a decent marriage; the latter will put you right back here in a couple years because you'll have taught her that she can do anything and you'll still accept her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Again, what are the reasons she's giving you for not seeking IC? Ask her again, why IC isn't possible. The reason we both hate IC, is the lousy help we received from therapists in the past. This had gotten so bad, that one therapist, who was reccomended through her work for IC concerning her depression, was making a play on her vunerability. He actually reccomended she leave me to help her with depression! Still, I will have more dialog about this subject with her. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 The reason we both hate IC, is the lousy help we received from therapists in the past. This had gotten so bad, that one therapist, who was reccomended through her work for IC concerning her depression, was making a play on her vunerability. He actually reccomended she leave me to help her with depression! Still, I will have more dialog about this subject with her. No need to look for excuses - have her find a female counselor. It should be HER TOP PRIORITY to get in TODAY! And it's really best if you keep your distance while she does the tough work she needs to face while she goes through the painful part of facing her character defects that got her to this place. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Go online, go to Google, type in 'reviews,' your city's name, and 'psychologists.' You'll get some websites where people write reviews of psychologists and then pick the one who has the highest ratings. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Ok, based on the reccomendations I received on this board, I had a long talk with the wife this morning. You are right. She has not yet come to terms with her infidelity. While she has had no contact with any of the three men. The last guy has yet to get his dear john letter. He is the most like me in character. The difference between the two of us is only this: There is no baggage between the two of them. We have baggage. Mostly the kids from my first marriage and her idea that I put them first. Not entirely true, but... I told her the real reason she hasn't broken with him is that she hasn't really decided. She has to decide which path to take and once she does, she needs to give her full attention to that path. I told her she could go after him if she thinks that is her right path, but she should also get counseling. The problems she has in her life are mostly internal. (Her mother left her family when she was 11 and the oldest of 4 kids. This pain is always there. Just talking about it can bring her to tears.) She might be able to bury those problems the rest of her life, and have a reasonably happy life with a new man or not. That is her decision to make. But she is standing on the fork in the road, only she can decide which way to go. I will be there for her only if she is willing to choose me and willing to give maximun effort and that includes IC. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SomedayDig Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 There is no baggage between the two of them. We have baggage. In our journal, this is one of the things my wife admitted when I began asking questions about her affair. Her exact words were "I liked the unencumbered sex". Unicorns and rainbows, man. It's a big attraction. Stay strong and follow your gut and heart. Don't let her get away without answering the questions you need to ask. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 You might want to ask her to consider what life with him would be like, when the fairy dust settles down and they have to clean each other's toilet, and she still hasn't resolved any of her past problems, which will only show up in THAT marriage. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SomedayDig Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 You might want to ask her to consider what life with him would be like, when the fairy dust settles down and they have to clean each other's toilet, and she still hasn't resolved any of her past problems, which will only show up in THAT marriage. True, because in the land of unicorns and rainbows no one farts, takes a crap or picks their noses. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 You might want to ask her to consider what life with him would be like, when the fairy dust settles down and they have to clean each other's toilet, and she still hasn't resolved any of her past problems, which will only show up in THAT marriage. I told her this is likely to happen. I said you have issues. You know you have issues. It is very likely your issues will sabotage any future relationship. She knows some people who have met the love of their lives after failed marriages, and been the happiest, ever. So she clings to that hope. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Trader, I just read through your thread. I've got one question... What are your requirements from your wife that she needs to complete (not start, complete) before you CONSIDER resuming your marriage with her? What does she need to change, what does she need to do in order to give your marriage any chance at all of reconciling after all of this? Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Trader, I just read through your thread. I've got one question... What are your requirements from your wife that she needs to complete (not start, complete) before you CONSIDER resuming your marriage with her? What does she need to change, what does she need to do in order to give your marriage any chance at all of reconciling after all of this? If you were able to get the timing of all this, today is the one week anniversary of my d-day. She has essentially been alone for a year and now wants relationship. I called a week ago Saturday and now there is now a dichotomy. Before that talk and the confession a few days later, she was single-mindedly moving away fast. Now, at least, I have her questioning herself. she is confused. And I'll be honest, Owl. ATM, I am still forming completion requirements and do not know when will be the appropiate time to "lay down the law" in its entirety. Our talk today centered, as you read, on the concept she is riding the fence. I don't think she even knew that before this talk. So I have short term goals and requirements. The first and foremost is get off the fence. The second is to want reconciliation as much or more than I do. The third is to realize she needs counseling and begin it. I know that is probally not enough. I have received a lot of admonitions from the posters on this board I am processing them as fast as I can. Many believe that I should cut her off, with no further contact. It just seems that if I am completely out of the loop, I am going to lose her. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 You're so afraid of "losing her" that you don't have a healthy boundary in force for yourself and the mess SHE created. Fear never helps. For what it's worth - we never "really" HAVE someone/anyone. That's an illusion. Everything is temporary. But since she hasn't started moving yet in the right direction (and you haven't "decided" yet either what she needs to do or not do - she doing NOTHING. And nothing is definitely SOMETHING! She's got MAJOR crap to sift through - and while she sifts through it all - I don recommend you being the target of ALL her anger. Yep, most people do take all their anger out on the one closest to them... Mainly because they don't want to be the one who has to take responsibility for the CHOICE THEY HAVE MADE along the way. If she keeps doing nothing - there's not much to help you with - except to start accepting the crappy life she intends to spoon feed you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bellechica Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Trader you said "She knows some people who have met the love of their lives after failed marriages, and been the happiest, ever. So she clings to that hope." Sounds like she is still thinking the grass is always greener. It's good you've told her that the personal issues she has will follow her to future relationships and that this last man with whom she did not have a physical relationship with will likely have problems. I agree with Somedaydig, the land of rainbows and unicorns isn't real. You're W is on the fence, in a fog. I suggest she do some research about female infidelity, and sexuality. She needs to start do some serious self-discovery and attempt to think logically. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Sounds like she is still thinking the grass is always greener. It's good you've told her that the personal issues she has will follow her to future relationships and that this last man with whom she did not have a physical relationship with will likely have problems. I agree with Somedaydig, the land of rainbows and unicorns isn't real. You're W is on the fence, in a fog. I suggest she do some research about female infidelity, and sexuality. She needs to start do some serious self-discovery and attempt to think logically. Since she told me enough about the two guys to go on the dating site and look for them, I saw immediately the guy behind door #3 was just like me. The only difference, no history, i.e. fresh start. The path of least resistance. For her my path means she has to endure pain to go forward. The other guy, no pain on the front end. I know she doesn't escape her problems. Not sure whether she really realizes that. Another roadblock for me is that she is prone to depression. Facing the music is one thing, mixing that with debilataing depression is something else. I took a risk and told her to do whatever she wants. If she wants to break it with the guy, do so. Break it with me, do so. DATE US BOTH? I don't care as long as he knows we are married and I am not ready to let go. If the guy is actually like me, that will end it. I also said if that is what she wants to do, there must be no sex with either of us. If that starts with him, I have the right to know so I can move on. Her reply to all this is that she has no intention of keeping secrets with anyone. She is going to practice full disclosure. Some of the advice I keep getting is very considerate about whether I should risk further personal pain. I appreciate the concern, but it is no concern of mine. I know the risk exists and I accept its consequences. I am thinking clearer and understanding more now than ever before. My eyes are wide open. If its pain I must endure for that clarity, so be it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 You're so afraid of "losing her" that you don't have a healthy boundary in force for yourself and the mess SHE created. Fear never helps. For what it's worth - we never "really" HAVE someone/anyone. That's an illusion. I didn't say I feared. Not persueing her at all, though, helped this problem grow. Everything is temporary. I guess, but I signed up with the 'til death to us crowd. But since she hasn't started moving yet in the right direction (and you haven't "decided" yet either what she needs to do or not do - she doing NOTHING. And nothing is definitely SOMETHING! I'm trying to look to a longer horizon here. I think I advanced the cause to the next hurdle pretty well with the help of this forum. Now that I have seen it and illuminated it, it is up to her. In any useful communication one must inform the intellect, stir the emotion, and bring the listener to a decision. One decision at a time is gentler. Perhaps let her soak this next decision in until the weekend when we have another chance? She's got MAJOR crap to sift through - and while she sifts through it all - I don recommend you being the target of ALL her anger. Yep, most people do take all their anger out on the one closest to them... Mainly because they don't want to be the one who has to take responsibility for the CHOICE THEY HAVE MADE along the way. I know about the anger thing. I have been a husband for awhile ya know. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellechica Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Trader, I think what would concern me if I were in your position is that sometimes when things are new, as in she has new experiences with this man, that the newness itself can be intriguing. Remember those first dates? Those first memories? I believe if you are willing to allow her to date the two of you that you might be open to dating as well if that is what your M has become..... As for her depression, if she does decide to recommit to you then it is very possible she will become depressed for her AP. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Trader, I think what would concern me if I were in your position is that sometimes when things are new, as in she has new experiences with this man, that the newness itself can be intriguing. Remember those first dates? Those first memories? I believe if you are willing to allow her to date the two of you that you might be open to dating as well if that is what your M has become..... As for her depression, if she does decide to recommit to you then it is very possible she will become depressed for her AP. I know the risk. I am not expecting her to take me up on it, but only time will tell. They only have had two dates. There isn't a bond at this time. She hasn't returned his calls in over a week. If he has any spider-sense at all, he has to be getting suspicious. Agreed on the depression and this makes it very interesting. She has taken no Zoloft for a week. She is trying to get off it. That means the slightest provocation will put her into depression. I, of course, will be the target. And this will be hard, but I do not think right now is the right time to be withdrawing from her meds. I put more risk for the relationship on this fact then the possibility of her carrying on with the other guy. Also, he doesn't know any of this. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellechica Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why are you able to handle this suffering? For health insurance!??? I believe you love her and I'm not as harsh as 2sunny, but don't you get that even I as a WW, one who has not disclosed her A, even I understand that YOU must demand better treatment. Some may say I'm hypocritical but I've stopped my behavior by my own choice. I know what my family needs. Your W has to decide for herself what is most important. Link to post Share on other sites
Bellechica Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Yes it's good when people make decisions and stick to them Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 She has been deciding for herself and everyone else...very similar to your situation. Take it from me. I cannot speak for Bellechica's husband, but I would rather have his situation than mine. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author trader Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why are you able to handle this suffering? For health insurance!??? I believe you love her and I'm not as harsh as 2sunny, but don't you get that even I as a WW, one who has not disclosed her A, even I understand that YOU must demand better treatment. Some may say I'm hypocritical but I've stopped my behavior by my own choice. I know what my family needs. Your W has to decide for herself what is most important. How about a little patience? That's what I am doing. Apply pressure. Apply salve. Allow healing. Rinse and repeat. Link to post Share on other sites
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