feel that i have been reduced to passive agressive mind games

[Ninjainpajamas]

OK first I want to say again thank you so much for taking the time to write such in depth answers. Sorry to keep asking you more questions but there's one thing I omitted before because I didn't want to get into too many personal details but it seems really relevant based on what you said...

 

Np, as long as you're taking something away from it. I understand the relevancy because this happens pretty often, a lot of guys are in the business of cheating.

 

The thing is, his 3 year relationship ended recently because the girl finally figured out he was cheating on her nonstop when he got into a car crash with another girl. Since them, him and his ex have been in constant contact.

 

She knew he was cheating, she just didn't want to accept it...plus most women want to believe that they're "special", so she'll keep fighting as much as he's breaking her heart and betraying her...she doesn't leave which shows him that she's willing to deal with it. Just imagine what his excuse is to her of why he cheats while he lies to you as well.

 

He's juggling two or three different stories, every woman gets their own fabricated and molded story...although he couldn't ever let each you know what he tells the other because he'd be caught in a lie immediately.

 

When he broke up with me, she had just come to visit the city we live in and they had met up. He told me she was coming and said it was sad, I said how so? He said that romantically their relationship was over but its nice to know they had a relationship of some sort. They met up twice for dinner, I asked if he had feelings for her still, he said some sort of feelings but he didn't want to date her because he cheated on her all the time so something must be wrong...

 

You'd be a fool unfortunately to believe a word about any of this or anything he tells you in regards to other women or his ex. He's already been going behind your back in contacting her, that's a whole other world you don't know about, plus he's likely cheated on you already...by the time a guy breaks up with you that's like him, he's already done the deed.

 

I really don't understand personally why women ask men about their feelings for another woman, he'd never tell the truth or he'd defend himself like crazy just to prove that he doesn't.

 

He still has emotions for her and will toy with her still...she's the worst victim and will be dragged along. The initial GF is the one the guy always goes back to, so for example If you're the first GF a guy has and he cheats on you several times...he'd do the exact same thing like clockwork...men like to put women through crap sometimes just to see If they'd still stick around.

Fast forward two weeks or so, he has been acting sort of weird. Finally, he breaks up with me, telling me "thing have gotten somewhat serious in a way that I had not anticipated," and "i'm still too invested in my ex girlfriend to be more serious with anyone. This is something I have just recently come to realize."

 

Whenever a guy acts "weird" or changes significantly in his demeanor, you can get ready for a bomb to drop. Especially IF he doesn't want to say or talk about it with you...you'll notice the signs.

 

...

 

Not sure if that changes anything at all, I just wanted to point out that when he broke up with me he specifically stated that he had not anticipated things would become serious, which is almost exactly what you wrote, and also that he did not until recently realize that he had feelings for his ex. I don't know if this means I'm a rebound or not, but regardless I don't know why he would toy with me like this now.

 

Doesn't change anything at all...he's basically just saying you were just a piece of @ss he was going to enjoy himself with, like I said before about how men are..especially when they are coming fresh out a of relationship, that's pretty much a deathwish for the new girl and the relationship, you can expect this from men in the future in the same situation.

 

So yes you are a rebound girl unfortunately as much as you don't want to feel you are...I'm sorry. He toys with you like this because that's what cheaters do, they use your emotions to their advantage, they use your vulnerability and attachment for their needs/desires. And you get sucked right in with a few nice gestures and charming words until you're conditioned to this kind of behavior to a degree.

On the flip side, I may as well accept that he does not have emotions for me. The thing is, I don't only feel rejected and unwanted because of this specifically, but generally always feel that no one would ever want/ have feelings for me. I know that people generally always want to sleep with me, but usually nothing more. I guess I should just let it rest.

 

Whatever emotions he has for you are not significant, as well as If there is anything they're confused and projected onto his ex gf. The more he feels for "you" or better yet..with you, it just reminds him of his ex, therefore that's why he goes crawling back and notice that he doesn't end up with any of the women he cheats on.

 

You have to revise how you select men and choose men with good solid qualities that have clearer intentions, If you just keep getting swept up in your emotions you'll be putting out for one guy after the other just waiting patiently with your hands folded hoping one of them will stick around.

 

It's definitely the men you are choosing/attracted to, you are likely attracted to unavailable men...this could be due to daddy issues, you're looking for someone who has a sense of authority and control, to take care of you...but you've got to take care of yourself, none of these guys are going to save you and put your first...If you're just easy, then guys will go through you like toilet paper, you've got to raise your standards, respect and value yourself more so that when you see the red flags, you've got enough sense to get yourself out of it...instead of once again letting your feelings lead you down the wrong road, even though you're head and intuition is telling you not to.

 

No one said It was easy, but If love was around every corner It wouldn't be something worth believing and sacrificing for much now would it? If you're expectations are love are greater then prove it to yourself, or you'll just be like a lot of these women out there that just get ran over and ran through and at the end of the day end up with a lot of pain and emptiness, where they don't even want to try again anymore, It's just too risky and painful.

 

So be careful who you love/give yourself to, make them earn it. Make sure they deserve it.

[ohmygoshistalk]

I think you shoudlnt talk to him for at least 6-7 mos to restart your NC.

 

You know this is the worst advice but dating around and finding men who could make u feel good about yourself will truly help.

 

I was watching that Dos Equis commercial last nite and the man said

 

"in life, find something you arent good at..

 

and dont do that.."

 

 

 

Sad to say even though you might think youre over someone, if they hurt you and keep hurting you, your pain will keep re-starting and your scabs will re-open , to reveal wounds that were supposed to heal. Set some boundaries and protect yourself, youre the only one major supporter of yourself..

 

I can see myself in you, being supportive and stuff, but at least support the ones who deserve your time.

 

I was once very hurt by this man, to a point I was horrified that what if I was never gonna heal? I was like locked in this world where I was drowning and nobody could save me. Thankfully for vodka, steak and friends I realized I could do so much better. I mistakenly tried to be his friend..like you I wanted to talk again..but he would disappear from time to time. It hurt me. Finally I said..u know what..**** you bitch.

So I didnt speak to this boll weevil for like 7 mos or so, tuned my interests on someone else and I feel like a new human being again.

 

I decided to finally talk to him a while ago and I notice I dont feel the same way in fact I dont remember why I even liked him.

 

Then I hear that song "need you now" and I can remember the pain, just not the love.

 

Hopefully it works out for you and someday in the future you will even wonder why you liked him.

[my body is a cage]

oy. so ninjapajamas, you're saying that I was just a piece of ass after all? seems like this just gets worse and worse. ive gone from being a companion/ a car he sort of liked to just a car he used sometimes when he really needed a ride and reminded him of how much better his old car was...

 

also, so youre saying he really does love his ex even though he cheated on her so much? she wasn't his first gf...

[Ninjainpajamas]

oy. so ninjapajamas, you're saying that I was just a piece of ass after all? seems like this just gets worse and worse. ive gone from being a companion/ a car he sort of liked to just a car he used sometimes when he really needed a ride and reminded him of how much better his old car was...

 

Emotionally for you I understand It's important exactly what you were and meant, unfortunately from mans perspective It's the same difference, It means the same thing depending on the man, there's no distinction because your "value" is what is important to note here...and that value to this man is not very high...you could have just about been anyone, when men cheat It's not about you, It's about a mans agenda and he needs/desires. You basically just get whatever is left over, whatever he is willing to invest and what effort he wants to put forth...you're an option not a priority, and that's the point in the big picture.

 

If you think that men are just interested in using women for sex then you'll mislead yourself, not everything a man does with you means he is genuinely interested or cares...some men like just sex then they disappear, some like an emotional attachment, others like the companionship and need some sort of a support/friend. When a man doesn't have this kind of support system in his life some men will compensate that with several women, but he's not truly interested in the same thing you are, you're the only one getting caught up in your emotions, because for him there's a wall and his emotions go backwards, not forwards.

 

also, so youre saying he really does love his ex even though he cheated on her so much? she wasn't his first gf...

 

In his mind he still loves his gf, he thinks that he does...but she's just a reliable crutch and what he has the most invested with...when you spend a long time with a person that builds a bond...even If it's a shattered one...time alone does that, however he doesn't realize that yet and he is still convinced of his feelings for her, just like you're convinced of your feelings and your fantasy with him, you both won't realize that until later on until you're both out of it...he'll eventually realize he wasn't really in love with her and you'll realize that you really weren't with him either, you were just naive and caught in the moment...you'll wonder what you even saw in him or at least see that he isn't what you want or need...which would be the rational mature way of thinking because it's the truth.

 

People like to hold onto that "well you don't know what we have together...what I feel, how he feels" yet I do because I've been there before, I know his mentality and mindset, I know by his actions...It's like highlighted footsteps on a black canvas, and he's walking exactly step for step on them without even realizing it, he doesn't even realize his own mistakes...and It's going to likely take him many years to even come to the conclusion of investing in one woman, If he even figures out how...as long as woman like you are willing to be with him and are readily available eager to believe that you can change this man and that somehow you're different then this process will likely continue until he decides he wants something different..and that's what most women don't realize it, It's a man that makes the decision on his own and his own time, It's in no way influenced by the woman.

 

I know a lot of this might go over your head because you are still emotionally invested with him...I could tell all the women in the world exactly how men are and they'd still try and want to believe...I understand this and don't blame you, I know from personal experience that emotions overpower reason with women and all it takes is one dramatic effort on a mans part, just saying the right words you want to hear and butter you up and you'd just crumble and give in...hopefully though you'll make the choice to be different.

 

In the end you'll see this guy is filled with lies, he will contradict himself and all of his actions are completely out of line to what he says...It's easy to see through a cheater...that is, If you have the ability to see and the desire to accept the truth.

[my body is a cage]

It's the same difference, It means the same thing depending on the man, there's no distinction because your "value" is what is important to note here...and that value to this man is not very high...you could have just about been anyone, when men cheat It's not about you, It's about a mans agenda and he needs/desires.

 

Ok, I think I understand. Right now he only wants to rent the cars and comparison shop (no?).

 

Anyway, I'm not exactly under the delusion that I am in love with him. I didn't think the relationship would last forever, but I wasn't quite ready for it to end. Going on a date with him recently reopened the wound, and the fact that he has been inconsistent about seeing me after breaking up with me respectfully and then making it seem like he really really missed me and wanted to go on a date ASAP just added insult to injury...

 

So yeah, my logical mind knows now and always did know that he doesn't have the capacity to give me what I want in a relationship/ is flawed. I don't actively want to be with him romantically, and I don't feel even feel attraction when I think of him right now at this point (and I used to be SUPER attracted to him) I just feel pain...

 

Two-fold paradoxical pain, because on one hand I feel like he rejected me and doesn't give a ****, but on the other hand I feel that I acted out of fear, pettiness, and spite by not going to his show after promising to. Furthermore, I feel the pain of loss because I feel like if all of the above is true, he might have cared but not much and now he is mad / won't care at all. I feel like I've ended the relationship and friendship for good now.

 

Due to these bad feelings I shot him a text today asking how the show was and saying I had been too cranky to attend... he hasn't responded, he is busy at work but this backs-up my feeling that this was the final straw. Am I being dramatic? I feel crazy

[mesmerized]

It's not passive aggressive, this is called stringing along and he has already made the hard decision of not pursuing you and having a relationship...the sooner you realize that the sooner you can move on and stop wasting time with a man who only wants you around on his watch, when it's convenient for him and only thinking of himself...but who knows how long that will take, that's up to you.

 

 

You've got to earn the "best loveshak poster" award. It's always refreshing to read your posts after reading so many idiotic or misogynist posts.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Ok, I think I understand. Right now he only wants to rent the cars and comparison shop (no?).

 

Anyway, I'm not exactly under the delusion that I am in love with him. I didn't think the relationship would last forever, but I wasn't quite ready for it to end. Going on a date with him recently reopened the wound, and the fact that he has been inconsistent about seeing me after breaking up with me respectfully and then making it seem like he really really missed me and wanted to go on a date ASAP just added insult to injury...

 

So yeah, my logical mind knows now and always did know that he doesn't have the capacity to give me what I want in a relationship/ is flawed. I don't actively want to be with him romantically, and I don't feel even feel attraction when I think of him right now at this point (and I used to be SUPER attracted to him) I just feel pain...

 

Two-fold paradoxical pain, because on one hand I feel like he rejected me and doesn't give a ****, but on the other hand I feel that I acted out of fear, pettiness, and spite by not going to his show after promising to. Furthermore, I feel the pain of loss because I feel like if all of the above is true, he might have cared but not much and now he is mad / won't care at all. I feel like I've ended the relationship and friendship for good now.

 

Due to these bad feelings I shot him a text today asking how the show was and saying I had been too cranky to attend... he hasn't responded, he is busy at work but this backs-up my feeling that this was the final straw. Am I being dramatic? I feel crazy

 

There's a good chance he'll just end up back with his ex and continue to cheat with women on the side, and there will be relapse breakout...It really depends on how bad she is willing to be burned before she can turn and walk away. Either way, he's not ready for anything permanent, whether he cheats in a relationship or just screws a bunch of delusional women.

 

He's going to keep feeding you BS and trying to string you along, that's the way it works. He ultimately doesn't care how you feel, but he'll pretend to and give you the time of day and act like he cares when he's available...and you're likely always available so why would he care to notice?

 

You're just being dramatic and clingy...the "I wasn't ready for it to end" is way too common of how women get themselves into trouble, they think they can just prevent themselves from further investing emotionally, all it does it make it worse and make you invest more for absolutely nothing.

 

At this point you know everything you need to know, you're not crazy, just emotional. If you want to be less crazy then you need to disconnect from him completely...otherwise you're only going to have yourself to blame...you're driving yourself crazy at this point, It's up to you to make the hard decisions at this point...If you can't and think you can just be "friends" or whatever excuse you can come up with because you're still into the guy it's just going to be a revolving door...you're going to have to look in the mirror if you want answers from this point, because it'll be you doing it yourself.

 

I've given you a holy grail of information about men and men like this...when you're older you'll be able to look back at these posts (hypothetically) and realize how much information I've given you, you can apply to so many situations and understand men very well from this (and yourself)...I just hope you take advantage of it rather than learn it all the hard way (like most people) because a lot of women never get the opportunity to know the truth.

[my body is a cage]

oooohhh boy. ok, update:

 

WELL. after not going to the gallery he chatted me asking if I had gone etc. he called me that night to hang out and we did, and we had a nice time. he apologized for being so busy and told me I looked the most beautiful he had ever seen me when I wasn't wearing much makeup.

 

after that he texted me the next day and the day after, we hung out again and had an equally nice time. he was really into the physical component - he kept on saying i felt amazing, that it was crazy how amazing I felt/ how well we fit together. I also felt like he opened up to me a little in conversation/ showed his vulnerable side.

 

Didn't hear from him again for two days then he texted me Friday to hang out but I could not. Saturday I texted him during the evening asking him what he was up to and he didn't respond, but chatted me the next day apologizing and asking what I was doing this week.

 

Tuesday I stopped by his work to see the show I had missed. He was very sweet and came out from his desk and spoke to me for 30 minutes. When I had to leave he gave me his arm and walked me to the door and kissed me goodbye.

 

HOWEVER, a mutual friend our ours who he has kissed before but considers dumb as a brick started posting all these pictures of him from Saturday night that looked like a date. Today I asked him via chat while he was at work (not a good move, I know, but it was driving me crazy) if they had been on a date. He said "I guess, I didn't really think of it that way, sorry if I'm not responsive I'm busy at work." Then I said that I know we are not exclusive but that it hurts that he would go on a date with her as she is my friend and also because he made it very clear he thought she was retarded. He said "okay." I said something along the lines of I don't know why I feel as hurt as I do and I don't know if you care, but do you like her? He said "I can't have this conversation right now." I said ok fair, I just hve no idea whats going on. He said I don't know what you mean, I'm signing off.

 

Sooo yeah, thats the first part. I am embarrassed that I confronted him like that at work but I was really upset. I hope I didn't seem crazy/ hysterical.

 

Anyway, second part: a couple of hours ago I emailed him. I said hey I'm sorry if it was inappropriate to confront you at work and I'm sorry if I lost my cool. I care about you a lot and have really enjoyed hanging out with you recently, but I don't think I can continue when this can't go anywhere. It is too hurtful to me.

 

That's all... I feel like I acted crazy/ overreacted / he doesn't give a ****. I don't want to lose him forever...

[my body is a cage]

Did I do the right thing?

[threebyfate]

What part of "he's not committed to you and wants to play the field" aren't you understanding?

[my body is a cage]

What part of "he's not committed to you and wants to play the field" aren't you understanding?

 

I do understand it. That is why I ended it, I can't deall with it anymore bc I have feelings for him. I just wish I had made a more graceful exit/ hope he didn't think I was coming off as crazy.

[PlumPrincess]

oooohhh boy. ok, update:

 

WELL. after not going to the gallery he chatted me asking if I had gone etc. he called me that night to hang out and we did, and we had a nice time. he apologized for being so busy and told me I looked the most beautiful he had ever seen me when I wasn't wearing much makeup.

 

after that he texted me the next day and the day after, we hung out again and had an equally nice time. he was really into the physical component - he kept on saying i felt amazing, that it was crazy how amazing I felt/ how well we fit together. I also felt like he opened up to me a little in conversation/ showed his vulnerable side.

 

Didn't hear from him again for two days then he texted me Friday to hang out but I could not. Saturday I texted him during the evening asking him what he was up to and he didn't respond, but chatted me the next day apologizing and asking what I was doing this week.

 

Tuesday I stopped by his work to see the show I had missed. He was very sweet and came out from his desk and spoke to me for 30 minutes. When I had to leave he gave me his arm and walked me to the door and kissed me goodbye.

 

HOWEVER, a mutual friend our ours who he has kissed before but considers dumb as a brick started posting all these pictures of him from Saturday night that looked like a date. Today I asked him via chat while he was at work (not a good move, I know, but it was driving me crazy) if they had been on a date. He said "I guess, I didn't really think of it that way, sorry if I'm not responsive I'm busy at work." Then I said that I know we are not exclusive but that it hurts that he would go on a date with her as she is my friend and also because he made it very clear he thought she was retarded. He said "okay." I said something along the lines of I don't know why I feel as hurt as I do and I don't know if you care, but do you like her? He said "I can't have this conversation right now." I said ok fair, I just hve no idea whats going on. He said I don't know what you mean, I'm signing off.

 

Sooo yeah, thats the first part. I am embarrassed that I confronted him like that at work but I was really upset. I hope I didn't seem crazy/ hysterical.

 

Anyway, second part: a couple of hours ago I emailed him. I said hey I'm sorry if it was inappropriate to confront you at work and I'm sorry if I lost my cool. I care about you a lot and have really enjoyed hanging out with you recently, but I don't think I can continue when this can't go anywhere. It is too hurtful to me.

 

That's all... I feel like I acted crazy/ overreacted / he doesn't give a ****. I don't want to lose him forever...

Yes, you were hysterical, but he also behaves in a way that triggers all your insecurities and that's not how it should be. I've been there, many many years ago. I spent YEARS, trying to analyze him and me after it was over, something that only lasted for a couple of weeks. I really wasted the best years on someone who wasn't worth it, just because I was stubborn, infatuated and deeply insecure. Ninjapajamas gave you very, very good advice. You should listen to what he says. You need to cut this guy out of your life.

[threebyfate]

I do understand it. That is why I ended it, I can't deall with it anymore bc I have feelings for him. I just wish I had made a more graceful exit/ hope he didn't think I was coming off as crazy.

While I know you're not a man, grab hold of your balls and sack up. Who cares what he thinks of you. What matters is that you start treating yourself like someone worthwhile, rather than a doormat for this dude to tromp all over.

 

I'm truly floored that you'd let him treat you this way and then, worry about how he views you. He's not committed so don't expect him to act like a boyfriend. You have zero right to expect anything from him as a boyfriend but you do have the right to expect to be treated like a person instead of an object for use, to be pulled out when it suits him.

 

Understand? Move on and next time, don't let anyone treat you this way. You were practically begging to be walked all over.

[PlumPrincess]

I do understand it. That is why I ended it, I can't deall with it anymore bc I have feelings for him. I just wish I had made a more graceful exit/ hope he didn't think I was coming off as crazy.

Seriously, it doesn't matter if he thought you were crazy, stupid or lame. If you really care about your dignity, walk out. Still caring what he thinks about you, that is what makes you look like a fool.

[my body is a cage]

Yes, you were hysterical, but he also behaves in a way that triggers all your insecurities and that's not how it should be. I've been there, many many years ago. I spent YEARS, trying to analyze him and me after it was over, something that only lasted for a couple of weeks. I really wasted the best years on someone who wasn't worth it, just because I was stubborn, infatuated and deeply insecure. Ninjapajamas gave you very, very good advice. You should listen to what he says. You need to cut this guy out of your life.

 

Thank you for your response. I have thought about what Ninjapajamas said. I ended things, even though I really like him. That's too bad I was hysterical... even if I wanted him in my life at this point he wouldn't want me in his.

[my body is a cage]

You have zero right to expect anything from him as a boyfriend but you do have the right to expect to be treated like a person instead of an object for use, to be pulled out when it suits him.

 

What? Are you implying that is the way he treated me? We weren't in a committed relationship, as you said, so technically he didn't do anything wrong - what is so shocking about my behavior? That I continued to see him without commitment?

[threebyfate]

What? Are you implying that is the way he treated me? We weren't in a committed relationship, as you said, so technically he didn't do anything wrong - what is so shocking about my behavior? That I continued to see him without commitment?

A list of behavioural issues on his side:

1. Serial cheater prior to getting involved with you.
   
2. Broke up with you.
   
3. A pattern of making and breaking dates with you with ambiguous reasons.
   
4. He knew you wanted more and kept you on a string. Had he been ethical, he would have either set you straight by calling you a friend or told you flat out there wasn't any hope.
   
5. Lied to you about his attraction to the dumb friend by calling her retarded in the past.
   

 

A list of behavioural issues on your side:

1. What were you thinking, getting involved with a serial cheater?
   
2. Why did you contact him post break up?
   
3. Why did you put up with his flakiness? In putting up with it, it told him he could walk all over you, so he did.
   
4. Then you finally asserted your boundaries by not going to his event. But I do have to ask if he expected you to go alone because that's what it sounded like since nowhere did you cancel, you just didn't attend. If so, more crappy treatment from him and yet you felt bad about not going and were worried about his feelings. Huh?
   
5. Then, to top it all off, you were worried about what he thought of you when you pulled the girlfriend move. Why would you be worried about what he thought of you when it's obvious, he's not committed to you or even holds you with much regard, considering you to be disposable (would rather date the retarded friend than see you)?
   

 

There's probably more but I'll admit to being lazy and not reading all the huge posts of yours.

[Emilia]

What? Are you implying that is the way he treated me? We weren't in a committed relationship, as you said, so technically he didn't do anything wrong - what is so shocking about my behavior? That I continued to see him without commitment?

 

I'm 100% with tbf on this one. What IS shocking is that you can't see how your own behaviour is enabling him! He is treating you like a doormat, walking all over you and your response is that 'technically he didn't do anything wrong'! He doesn't care how you feel, he doesn't respond to you when he is out f***ing other chicks, he keeps you around when he doesn't have anyone else to play with and you think it's ok because you are not in a committed relationship!!!! You are begging to be walked over yes! Have you no self respect?

[RedDevil66]

I don't post here much anymore, but had to log on for this.

 

Ninja has given you some of THE BEST insight advice I've ever seen. I'm 45 yrs old and have been through a lot of relationship issues and what he says is 101% accurate and valuable.

 

But sometimes, one has to fall on their face over and over before they see the "light"

 

This guy is treating you like sh&t and you're so codependent, you're more worried about what he thinks that you never showed up to the event.

He's dated your friends, cheated and is basically saying you're his doormat and yet, you keep going back for more.

 

I understand your pain. I was with a guy for 5 yrs who treated me (or tried to treat me) like this.

Pick up your dignity, print out Ninja's advice and read it 100 times and don't contact this person again.

It takes as much energy to be happy as it is to be sad, pick what you want to be and use your energy in that place

 

Ninja, I have to say, I'm very impressed at your posts. Can I hire you for a consult? hahah! Not sure how old you are, but you seem to have a ton of experience.

You should start a web site for women :-)