my body is a cage Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 My ex and I broke up late January. The breakup was amicable and he said very sweet things about me. After that, we did not speak for a few months. I contacted him out of the blue a month ago and he insisted we go one a date. We did, and it went really well. After that, he has contacted me several times. However, when it comes to making plans, he always initiates and then breaks them, or is very nebulous and it does not end up happening. He also calls me at 2 am or will text me things like "thinking of you." We also gchat and talk on the phone often. Last week, he contacted me to make plans and broke them three times in a row. Granted, he is VERY busy at work right now, but regardless, I felt very hurt. Last time he even said, "I want to make a date for real," and then ultimately bailed (due to business - I know this is not a farce). Even though he is busy, he has not been clear with communication, which I felt was inconsiderate and left me wondering if he actually wanted to see me or not. Yesterday, he/ his job hosted a HUGE event that he has been working really hard on. He invited me a while ago and I had been really excited to go and support him. However, two days before that, he had bailed on me for the third time in a row w/o communicating clearly. I felt really hurt, and even though it killed me not to go to his event, I did not feel up for it. I felt vulnerable, and wasn't even sure how welcome I would be... I would like to see him only when I know for sure he wants to see me, you know? Also, I knew he would be busy, and I felt that if he didn't give me enough attention etc I would be more hurt, and after lots and lots of struggling to decide what to do I decided ultimately, I had to protect myself. I don't know if I made the right decision by not going. I feel like I almost reduced myself to his level by not following through on plans. I don't know if he really noticed/ cared that I did not go, but if he did, he may have thought I was doing it because I was very angry with him/ wanted to get a rise/ it was a low blow. Furthermore, I feel like I screwed myself over- many friends went, and it seemed like a generally fun time, although they reported that the ex was exhausted and hiding in the back. I guess I am trying to distance myself from him because he has repeatedly hurt me, but at the same time, I really care about him and am not ready to close the door entirely... although we haven't been able to make plans, it has been nice to be in consistent contact and I do believe that cares for me on some level. I don't know if not going to his event was worse than what he did, because I know the event meant a lot to him and it had been planned for over a month. Basically, my question is: did I do the right thing? Is he going to hold this against me and think that I have engaged in a passive aggressive battle? I really did this to protect myself, not hurt him. Is this the final nail in the coffin of our relationship? Will he even ever contact me again? Thanks for your input.
Emilia Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I don't think his heart is in this. You contacted him, you guys had a great time but it's not working the other way round. For your own sanity I think you should find someone else. It isn't supposed to be this hard.
Author my body is a cage Posted May 3, 2012 Author Posted May 3, 2012 I don't think his heart is in this. You contacted him, you guys had a great time but it's not working the other way round. For your own sanity I think you should find someone else. It isn't supposed to be this hard. Thanks for you input. I agree with you to an extent - I don't think he wants a full blown relationship, for sure. When I said I contacted him I mean I gchatted him and then he insisted we go on a date ASAP pursued me contacted me etc to make sure it happened. What is so confusing is that its not that I am contacting him, but he is contacting me and then not following through. If his heart isn't in it/ he really doesn't care for me, why bother contacting at all? I just don't understand.
Emilia Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 What is so confusing is that its not that I am contacting him, but he is contacting me and then not following through. If his heart isn't in it/ he really doesn't care for me, why bother contacting at all? I just don't understand. How well do you know him? How long were you together?
veggirl Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I think the old standby advice applies here--if he was truly interested, he would make time for you. It's easy and convenient to gchat (sitting at his computer doing other things anyway) and all that. Not following through on plans 3 times? What came up instead? His schedule is so erratic it doesn't leave room for making and keeping plans? Was it like this when you dated the first time around? and I think you did the right thing not going to his event. You shouldn't be the one bending all the time to fit in his schedule. I don't think that was game playing, you legit didn't feel like going. Understandable.
Author my body is a cage Posted May 3, 2012 Author Posted May 3, 2012 How well do you know him? How long were you together? I know him well, we went to school together and were friends for years before dating for 5 months or so. He is generally flaky with everyone but was better while we were together (but not before we actually started seeing each other - I remember there was a long drawn out period of back and forth then too that I found weirdly difficult) if that helps. I am just at a total loss, it makes no sense. I've decided that I cannot be physical with him while everything is so uncertain, but I would just want to hang out with him / see him in general because I care for him. I don't know if he thinks he has the upperhand/ that I am disposable or if he is mad I didn't go to his event after all of our history and now we are really over.
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 This is as typical as typical can get unfortunately. This is basically the stringing along process...he broke up with you, then re-initiated contact with you afterwards. When a guy does this he's basically saying "Look, I'm not looking for a relationship or to dedicate my real time and effort to you, however I'd still like you around when it's convenient for me" By you accepting his contact and continuing to engage with me It's like you're expecting the terms of this agreement, because to him he's already told you how he felt and shown that he isn't willing to put you first in anything (and no that won't change, when a man decides this he decides this, It's only in the other persons eyes from the rejected point of view will this "hopefully change") The fact that he initiates contacts Is really minimal effort, you're basically telling yourself that It's ok for a man to put in a piss of effort If you think he has some minor genuine emotions and care for you, I mean be for real, this is no way means are going to escalate beyond that...you're going to get hot and cold, hot and cold because he's only using you when It's convenient for him and suits his needs...what do you expect him to act like? you do realize he is a human being and able to show minimal amounts of effort and will? But If you're basically willing to settle for that you might as well spin around in a circle and pick any random guy, but yes yes I know you have "feelings" for this guy which is why all the reason in the world won't make you see what really is...typical. He's repeatedly hurt you because his actions are repeatedly showing his level of interest, It's that simple. There is no confusion, you confuse yourself because you want to believe that you're something more special than that and like he must really like you to be picking up his cell phone when he's lonely/horny and sending you a text at 2am...you do realize that this is what men do with booty calls as well? It doesn't mean you're into the girl. Fact of the matter Is you're settling for way too little, you didn't mess up on this event...he messed up the event and with you! What doesn't make any sense about that? No no, instead you're being so insecure questions yourself and lovey dovey with this guy that you're almost willing to bend back into a pretzel for him and fish for the the smallest shred of positive gestures and sign of care you're willing to hold this up like a torch of hope when this is more like a tiny candle in a pitch black dessert. When a guy isn't really into you they don't put you above anything else, It's not because they're too busy, because even If they are busy they're not going to stand you up/cancel dates...he's going to make plans and make it happen, not make excuses, excuses are just basically damage control so that you don't get all hurt and he doesn't burn his bridge. You know why he buttered you up with all those niceties? Oh baby you're just too good for me... You've been so understanding and supportive but I don't know what I'd do with you...but ::gasp:: ::hand over forehead:: alas I must let my fair lady go...this is not good enough for you...no no this is not what you need Oh baby you deserve someone much better than me.. I don't deserve you, I'm much too busy you need a guy who can give you more time Oh baby I love you so much and you're such a special and amazing girl, some man will be super lucky to have you You might as open up a fortune cookie and feel "special" because you think It's personalized...It's such a load of crap but you want to believe this because you want to feel like even if there is a tiny shred of truth in it then he must really love you/care about you, want to be with you...when the ultimate truth is HE DUMPED YOU. He had a conversation with himself and said "She's not worth fighting for"...and then he tried to let you down nice and easy, probably because you seem to be mingled with the same group of friends or what not If they're attending his events...he's worried about damage control and taking any flak, not your feelings, he just wants to let you down easy and say "ok, everything is ok...I'm just going to back away slowly, everybody is happy now right? no hard feelings?, all in good fun and just a minor mistake!...steady as she goes, nobody get angry now ::takes off running only to come back after things have simmered down::" It's not passive aggressive, this is called stringing along and he has already made the hard decision of not pursuing you and having a relationship...the sooner you realize that the sooner you can move on and stop wasting time with a man who only wants you around on his watch, when it's convenient for him and only thinking of himself...but who knows how long that will take, that's up to you. 5
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I know him well, we went to school together and were friends for years before dating for 5 months or so. He is generally flaky with everyone but was better while we were together (but not before we actually started seeing each other - I remember there was a long drawn out period of back and forth then too that I found weirdly difficult) if that helps. I am just at a total loss, it makes no sense. I've decided that I cannot be physical with him while everything is so uncertain, but I would just want to hang out with him / see him in general because I care for him. I don't know if he thinks he has the upperhand/ that I am disposable or if he is mad I didn't go to his event after all of our history and now we are really over. It's a shame someone who has known you this long is treating like this, don't even get me started on the topic of friends between men and women, this is exactly what I would expect to happen given the right opportunity. One day everything just magically shifted to the next phase/some event/some conversation likely and you ended up being together, but from the sound of this guy it just seems like he was an opportunist, then he felt obligated to give you a relationship and indulged himself in it due to your long history together...he can't just exactly burn you and treat you like a booty call, he has to butter it up and make it look cordial and like things "just didn't work out" due to some out of his control non-related reason. Once you stop being physical with him I doubt he'll keep up the contact, It will slowly regress...and whatever he says to you If it was in a form of a check by the time you took it to the bank it would already bounce. Very douchey demeanor and actions by a guy who supposedly was your friend, very low class/childish. 1
Author my body is a cage Posted May 3, 2012 Author Posted May 3, 2012 Well, he does have very real relationship issues that aren't worth me getting into. From your post I gather that you don't think he likes me very much at all, and that's because of me not him. What do you think it is about me he finds so repulsive?
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Well, he does have very real relationship issues that aren't worth me getting into. From your post I gather that you don't think he likes me very much at all, and that's because of me not him. What do you think it is about me he finds so repulsive? It's not that he doesn't like you very much at all, he might like you well enough just doesn't value you and interested enough for him to get over those "issues" (which all men conveniently have when breaking up with a woman but it sure doesn't stop us from sleeping with you and carrying you on for 5 mons for example). I might like something, enough to invest a small mount of time/effort/money into, but If I really like like and want something don't you think that's a whole different attitude and mentality altogether? think about how you feel you just like something versus really like/love something...do you treat the two the same? you might let the "like" thing go, but that "really like/love" something you're really going to go out of your way for aren't you? you're not going to make excuses and find all the reasons you can't do something right? you're just going to go and do it...It's called having the proper motivation...he does not see enough in you to have the proper motivation to invest a part of himself that otherwise is off limits to other women...you fall in that "other women" category. Think about how hard he worked on this event and how bad he wanted it to come together that he was exhausted by the end of it, do you think he's put maybe what? half the effort with you in your relationship? this is a perfect situation because you get to see his attitude and ability to achieve something he really wants, versus something he's only semi-interested in, that doesn't mean your repulsive, women aren't repulsive to men or he wouldn't have slept with you in the first place...unless he was really desperate at the time for lovin/affection. You can't change and become the perfect woman for this guy because It just isn't you, walk away with your pride and dignity, saving yourself from letting this guy string you along and use you for a side option. Find someone who's wiling to make you a priority and give you his full time and energy, unless this is all you're willing to settle for yourself...and If that's the case they you kind of reap what you sow, I see a lot of women out there waste time with men who are only half-interested in them, as If in time they can break them down and force them to be with them by showing how much they love them and are willing to be dragged along for them...a twisted way of winning a man over, It's a shame, you would think people would think more of themselves and know that they deserve better...why they would tolerate this behavior is only a reflection of their own severe insecurity, and that's the truly sad part. 2
Author my body is a cage Posted May 3, 2012 Author Posted May 3, 2012 Ninja: I guess I may as well elaborate since you've been kind enough to put time and thought into your answers. One thing that might be worth mentioning is that we are young - I am 22, he is 21, I just finished school and he is taking time off. When I just knew this guy as a friend, I always had a crush on him because I found him very cute and interesting, we have a lot of interests in common. However, for 3 years or so he always had a girlfriend, who he cheated on repeatedly, even though he "loved" her. I know that doesn't sound like prime boyfriend material, and I didn't go into anything expecting anything serious but rather just enjoyed spending time with him. When he ended things, he said that things had gotten too serious and he was not ready for something so serious with anyone (his actions have reflected this- he has not pursued anything serious with anyone). He called me "beautiful, very intelligent, tasteful and fun," and said that "under different circumstances, things would be enormously different,' and that after a long dishonest relationship with his last gf, he could not continue to afford being dishonest. I'd like to think that wasn't all BS and he actually did care for me, but you seem to suggest that I am only a piece of ass, if I am even that important... RE: him working so hard at his job, well first off, he doesn't have a choice - he is by no means his own boss. he is young and trying to make his way/sort his life out- I don't hold him against that. I canceled a bunch of plans during finals week because I was worried about actually graduating... also, he asked to hang out last tuesday and then I couldn't. He also doesn't have a stable place to stay right now.... I'm not trying to make excuses for him. Maybe I am insecure for accepting this, and maybe I am too insecure to accept that he may just not like me that much. But what is really liking someone and what is love? If we get along really well, are similar, enjoy our time together, and are very attracted to each other (and that at least is what he says but it seems to be true), how is that not really liking? What does really liking mean? What does him "loving" his ex mean if he cheated on her all the time? I don't understand.
PlumPrincess Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 This is as typical as typical can get unfortunately. This is basically the stringing along process...he broke up with you, then re-initiated contact with you afterwards. When a guy does this he's basically saying "Look, I'm not looking for a relationship or to dedicate my real time and effort to you, however I'd still like you around when it's convenient for me" By you accepting his contact and continuing to engage with me It's like you're expecting the terms of this agreement, because to him he's already told you how he felt and shown that he isn't willing to put you first in anything (and no that won't change, when a man decides this he decides this, It's only in the other persons eyes from the rejected point of view will this "hopefully change") The fact that he initiates contacts Is really minimal effort, you're basically telling yourself that It's ok for a man to put in a piss of effort If you think he has some minor genuine emotions and care for you, I mean be for real, this is no way means are going to escalate beyond that...you're going to get hot and cold, hot and cold because he's only using you when It's convenient for him and suits his needs...what do you expect him to act like? you do realize he is a human being and able to show minimal amounts of effort and will? But If you're basically willing to settle for that you might as well spin around in a circle and pick any random guy, but yes yes I know you have "feelings" for this guy which is why all the reason in the world won't make you see what really is...typical. He's repeatedly hurt you because his actions are repeatedly showing his level of interest, It's that simple. There is no confusion, you confuse yourself because you want to believe that you're something more special than that and like he must really like you to be picking up his cell phone when he's lonely/horny and sending you a text at 2am...you do realize that this is what men do with booty calls as well? It doesn't mean you're into the girl. Fact of the matter Is you're settling for way too little, you didn't mess up on this event...he messed up the event and with you! What doesn't make any sense about that? No no, instead you're being so insecure questions yourself and lovey dovey with this guy that you're almost willing to bend back into a pretzel for him and fish for the the smallest shred of positive gestures and sign of care you're willing to hold this up like a torch of hope when this is more like a tiny candle in a pitch black dessert. When a guy isn't really into you they don't put you above anything else, It's not because they're too busy, because even If they are busy they're not going to stand you up/cancel dates...he's going to make plans and make it happen, not make excuses, excuses are just basically damage control so that you don't get all hurt and he doesn't burn his bridge. You know why he buttered you up with all those niceties? Oh baby you're just too good for me... You've been so understanding and supportive but I don't know what I'd do with you...but ::gasp:: ::hand over forehead:: alas I must let my fair lady go...this is not good enough for you...no no this is not what you need Oh baby you deserve someone much better than me.. I don't deserve you, I'm much too busy you need a guy who can give you more time Oh baby I love you so much and you're such a special and amazing girl, some man will be super lucky to have you You might as open up a fortune cookie and feel "special" because you think It's personalized...It's such a load of crap but you want to believe this because you want to feel like even if there is a tiny shred of truth in it then he must really love you/care about you, want to be with you...when the ultimate truth is HE DUMPED YOU. He had a conversation with himself and said "She's not worth fighting for"...and then he tried to let you down nice and easy, probably because you seem to be mingled with the same group of friends or what not If they're attending his events...he's worried about damage control and taking any flak, not your feelings, he just wants to let you down easy and say "ok, everything is ok...I'm just going to back away slowly, everybody is happy now right? no hard feelings?, all in good fun and just a minor mistake!...steady as she goes, nobody get angry now ::takes off running only to come back after things have simmered down::" It's not passive aggressive, this is called stringing along and he has already made the hard decision of not pursuing you and having a relationship...the sooner you realize that the sooner you can move on and stop wasting time with a man who only wants you around on his watch, when it's convenient for him and only thinking of himself...but who knows how long that will take, that's up to you. You're one of my favorite posters here. 2
pink_sugar Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I can understand your point, but you owe it to yourself and him to be upfront and honest. There's nothing I hate more than someone being standoffish and not being upfront about something. This goes for relationships and even friends and relatives. I can tell when the person is avoiding me and acting unusual and then I get upset when I find out they have an ongoing list of things I did that pissed them off-- that I never knew about. A person cannot correct their behavior until they know what the problem is. Give him that chance, explain to him what's going on and how you feel. Until then, we can only blame ourselves for being upset until we know we tried.
Author my body is a cage Posted May 3, 2012 Author Posted May 3, 2012 I can understand your point, but you owe it to yourself and him to be upfront and honest. There's nothing I hate more than someone being standoffish and not being upfront about something. This goes for relationships and even friends and relatives. I can tell when the person is avoiding me and acting unusual and then I get upset when I find out they have an ongoing list of things I did that pissed them off-- that I never knew about. A person cannot correct their behavior until they know what the problem is. Give him that chance, explain to him what's going on and how you feel. Until then, we can only blame ourselves for being upset until we know we tried. Thanks Pink Sugaar. I would like to express why I'm upset, but I'm not sure if its worth it because I don't even know if he cares/ the problem is that I feel like he doesn't care. I can't be mad at someone for not caring - they have no obligation to care. I suppose I could ask him if he actually wants to see me or not, but that feels needy too. I wasn't trying to express discontent, and I'm worried it came off that way - I was just trying to prevent myself from getting more hurt. I hope he doesn't see it as a hostile move.
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Ninja: I guess I may as well elaborate since you've been kind enough to put time and thought into your answers. One thing that might be worth mentioning is that we are young - I am 22, he is 21, I just finished school and he is taking time off. When I just knew this guy as a friend, I always had a crush on him because I found him very cute and interesting, we have a lot of interests in common. However, for 3 years or so he always had a girlfriend, who he cheated on repeatedly, even though he "loved" her. I know that doesn't sound like prime boyfriend material, and I didn't go into anything expecting anything serious but rather just enjoyed spending time with him. When he ended things, he said that things had gotten too serious and he was not ready for something so serious with anyone (his actions have reflected this- he has not pursued anything serious with anyone). He called me "beautiful, very intelligent, tasteful and fun," and said that "under different circumstances, things would be enormously different,' and that after a long dishonest relationship with his last gf, he could not continue to afford being dishonest. I'd like to think that wasn't all BS and he actually did care for me, but you seem to suggest that I am only a piece of ass, if I am even that important... RE: him working so hard at his job, well first off, he doesn't have a choice - he is by no means his own boss. he is young and trying to make his way/sort his life out- I don't hold him against that. I canceled a bunch of plans during finals week because I was worried about actually graduating... also, he asked to hang out last tuesday and then I couldn't. He also doesn't have a stable place to stay right now.... I'm not trying to make excuses for him. Maybe I am insecure for accepting this, and maybe I am too insecure to accept that he may just not like me that much. But what is really liking someone and what is love? If we get along really well, are similar, enjoy our time together, and are very attracted to each other (and that at least is what he says but it seems to be true), how is that not really liking? What does really liking mean? What does him "loving" his ex mean if he cheated on her all the time? I don't understand. I'll break it down for you so that you understand how this works, the point I'm trying to make for you is what you see/feel/think is common to what many women find themselves in that similar situation and are thus confused by the situation. Let me explain this to you first... I realize that you feel compatible with this guy and you enjoy your time together. The experience feels mutual in the moment, you've been good friends but he was off limits because of a relationship where you seen him repeatedly cheat on his gf that he supposedly loved. You conveniently however separate yourself from this equation by thinking what he did to her wouldn't have an affect with you, which it clearly does. The fact that cheated on his gf should show you that he'd do the exact same thing to you as well, from a mans eyes there is no difference in who the woman is unless that's the women you're ultimately going to commit to. The fact that he's young however shows he is unable to prevent a commitment from happening so he therefore gets into a relationship that he knows he shouldn't have in the first place. He realizes in the past he messed up and hurt someones feelings, a part of him wants to prevent that from happening again and repeating the same pattern for you. However what makes that difficult for women is the mindset like yours, you push and push your way into a mans presence trying to keep yourself on his mind divulge any emotions you can that he feels for you so that regardless of what happens you can feel justified knowing that the "has feelings for you". This does not excuse the behavior but when a woman likes a guy she becomes blinded and doesn't want to see that things that will reflect negatively on the situation and she tries to ignore/excuse the behavior...this is the part where you start to confuse yourself because in your head you're trying to twist the reality and at least avoid it. He's not prime boyfriend material however you also are falling for the oldest trick in the book...the "unavailable man"...because you want to be with this person and he doesn't want to be with you exclusively you try and essentially win him over by showing how you feel for him...however you don't realize that in a mans mind he's already made a decision, so you think you're winning these little battles with him because you're keeping score on anything, but when you go to cash it in there's nothing there to receive in return, he doesn't or hasn't changed his mind to be with you. The second part is now as a woman you see a man with good potential so you think that you somehow wait it or "fix" him because you recognize his issues and what you perceive to be as separate from the man, so you go into a mode of trying to "save" him from himself. You start thinking this guy would be "perfect" If he would just change this or that...It's very common and you'll see women twice your age doing the same exact thing, the ones you won't see participating in this pracitce are women who have been burned enough times to learn from this, that it is futile. All those little details in your mind about yourself and him are basically irrelevant to the big picture...women get lost in the details to justify and try to see some promise/hope out of the situation, therefore they keep fishing for whatever they can...you basically give men 1,000 chances to "save" the relationship, not because he wants to because you want him to want you and to save this...but you can never make a man do that, the best you can hope for is him to settle on you by having no options or failing at life in finding a better partner. I speak in very cold and plain terms with you because this is the harsh reality about these situations, in the end he will not stick his neck out for you and he will not validate any of those feelings or emotions you think he has for you...IF you were to completely disappear It's not going to change how he feels, he may feel and care as all of us human beings have the ability to do but he wants to feel and care more than he actually does If you know what I mean...he's doing what he's doing out of guilt, because he doesn't want to look like the bad guy and he realizes that you have feelings for me but he doesn't really understand and acknowledge your feelings or he wouldn't be doing this to you...he would be forthright and honest with you, but If he does that, he thinks he'll lose the opportunity to be with you still and have you as a companion on the side. You are not a piece of ass alone, you also are a companion...you need to realize that men don't just be with women for the sex, It's part of the whole package experience that you take as a relationship...for him It's like going to a theme park and ride every ride, but It doesn't mean he wants to be there everyday and he couldn't leave without it..nor could he visit another one...there is an emotional limit of what he can feel for you. If you weren't insecure and knew your value you wouldn't do anything that demeaned yourself and caused you to disrespect yourself. It would be like someone violating you, like you going to work, you agreed to get paid 150 dollars for the day but at the end of the day the person gives you 50...instead of get angry, you become hurt, weak and vulnerable and just accept it as at least im getting the 50 bucks...where a strong, confident and secure person would say "you've got to be ****ting me, you owe me 100 bucks and you're going to give it to me or I'm done here" and then actually do it...do you see the difference? you have to know your value and self-worth and then actually follow through with it, instead of question yourself and think you did somethign wrong or somehow you could become better when you've done nothing wrong? you know what I mean? What you need to know about love is love is a mutual, sharing, give and take experience. It's not one person siphoning the other person for affection and attention, it's not an insecure woman looking for validation from a man for her self worth so being with any jerk she has emotions for. Love is something you put above and before yourself, you feel so strongly and worry so much about that other persons well-being that you're willing to sacrifice and expend effort into making them happy and feel loved and valued, and because it is mutual the other person represents the same thing...It's filled with deep communication not just the surface stuff, expressing and sharing your feel thoughts/emotions and insecurities and being supportive of the other person because you ultimately want the best for them...you do things for people you really love that you would never think you might have done before, and you definitely sacrifice. Liking and really liking something is relative, people like and really like things all the time but it isn't compelling, as you get older It won't be a magical coincidence that you'll like, really like several men, but you'll come to find that love is a harder thing to find. It's something that both people have to really want and love makes everything different than when you just like and really like someone...he really liked his ex gf, he might like or really like you...but you won't provoke any special or extraordinary action from a man who feels that way for you...It won't stop him from cheating, it won't stop him from just looking for the next best thing, and It won't stop him from prioritizing everything else in his life over you...because in the end he knows you'll be replaced with a different face and body because deep-down men also want to find that special person, we just don't easily settle on that like most women do...It takes a lot for us to change or want to change. And for this guy, he definitely has a lot to learn not only about himself but how not to use women. And you need to learn how to see through all those emotions and separate yourself from it, accept and see the reality and make the best decisions for yourself...If you invest everything into men, you will come out empty handed in the end...you need to have a big part of YOU somewhere in there...I'm explaining this all to you so hopefully you can realize this, If you look out women around you, they've made a lot of the same mistakes and they've wasted a lot of years with the wrong men who never really were invested and only in the end were they able and willing to accept that...you've got to be able to save yourself from that or you may find yourself in the same boat. If you make bad choices, at least learn from them and see them for what they are, be honest with yourself, trust your gut/intuition...so that you don't just look at every situation as a chance and you're purely a victim of men treating women badly...always remember you don't ever have to let a man treat you that way, you can always choose to save yourself and you should. 2
pink_sugar Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Thanks Pink Sugaar. I would like to express why I'm upset, but I'm not sure if its worth it because I don't even know if he cares/ the problem is that I feel like he doesn't care. I can't be mad at someone for not caring - they have no obligation to care. I suppose I could ask him if he actually wants to see me or not, but that feels needy too. I wasn't trying to express discontent, and I'm worried it came off that way - I was just trying to prevent myself from getting more hurt. I hope he doesn't see it as a hostile move. That's true. If he doesn't seem to care and you feel yourselves growing apart, it might be best to let it go. You can't do anything about it unless the other person cares just as much.
Author my body is a cage Posted May 3, 2012 Author Posted May 3, 2012 Wow, thank you. That was super insightful and helpful. He realizes in the past he messed up and hurt someones feelings, a part of him wants to prevent that from happening again and repeating the same pattern for you. Right, that's what I feel like him breaking up with me was about, and I accepted/ understood that, despite being upset. What is confusing me is that after all of that months later he insisted we go on a date? I asked him why this was ok now and not before and he had no answer. He's not prime boyfriend material however you also are falling for the oldest trick in the book...the "unavailable man"...because you want to be with this person and he doesn't want to be with you exclusively you try and essentially win him over by showing how you feel for him...however you don't realize that in a mans mind he's already made a decision, so you think you're winning these little battles with him because you're keeping score on anything, but when you go to cash it in there's nothing there to receive in return, he doesn't or hasn't changed his mind to be with you. ..but you can never make a man do that, the best you can hope for is him to settle on you by having no options or failing at life in finding a better partner. This is where I get confused. If HE has issues and is capable of mistreating someone he "loved," is it still about ME? Was it about his ex? Did he want to be with someone but not with us, or did he just not want the responsibility of being with someone at all? It seems like you think he thinks he would be settling by being with me. Am I twisting reality by thinking it is a general thing, and not me specifically that was the problem? And if I wasn't good enough, why? IF you were to completely disappear It's not going to change how he feels, he may feel and care as all of us human beings have the ability to do but he wants to feel and care more than he actually does If you know what I mean... I'm afraid I don't really follow... why can't he care as much as he wants? Again, is it about my failings here? Why would he want to care more if he doesn't? he's doing what he's doing out of guilt, because he doesn't want to look like the bad guy and he realizes that you have feelings for me but he doesn't really understand and acknowledge your feelings or he wouldn't be doing this to you...he would be forthright and honest with you, but If he does that, he thinks he'll lose the opportunity to be with you still and have you as a companion on the side. You are not a piece of ass alone, you also are a companion...you need to realize that men don't just be with women for the sex, It's part of the whole package experience that you take as a relationship...for him It's like going to a theme park and ride every ride, but It doesn't mean he wants to be there everyday and he couldn't leave without it..nor could he visit another one...there is an emotional limit of what he can feel for you. This is definitely true. What is confusing is that he was forthright before, and is not being forthright now... why did he decide to stop being honest? I definitely think he doesn't like feeling like the bad guy. Opportunity in me for what? It's something that both people have to really want and love makes everything different than when you just like and really like someone...he really liked his ex gf, he might like or really like you...but you won't provoke any special or extraordinary action from a man who feels that way for you...It won't stop him from cheating, it won't stop him from just looking for the next best thing, and It won't stop him from prioritizing everything else in his life over you...because in the end he knows you'll be replaced with a different face and body because deep-down men also want to find that special person, we just don't easily settle on that like most women do...It takes a lot for us to change or want to change. So basically you think the issue at hand is that despite sort of liking me, he doesn't think I'm special enough to commit to? Mind you, I'm DEFINITELY not looking for marriage or even something super serious in general, and I don't know if I'm looking for anything from him at all... its just hard to understand what is about me and what is about him, and if its just about him acting this way because I'm not special enough, that hurts and feels like rejection. Again, thank you for all the insight.
Author my body is a cage Posted May 4, 2012 Author Posted May 4, 2012 I'm feeling really low and confused about this. I still feel really bad not going to his event when I had said I would for a month and we had talked about it multiple times (even though he only had a small part setting it up, it was a photography event and he had modeled in several pictures for the photographer/ is sort of his muse & close friend, so it was an important event for him) I don't know what to think. I don't know if I'm making excuses for him and in reality he doesn't really like me that much / doesn't care if I went or not. Regardless, in the past he always went to silly events that I hosted/ was supportive of me when it really counted. And although he has been wishy washy about plans, he has been taking all the initiative to make them, and has been contacting me a lot, which is kind of a lot for him because he's sort of a passive low-energy guy & is flakey with everyone including his best friends. Maybe I was supposed to have put my insecurities aside, given him the benefit of the doubt and gone to this event just because I care about him, not because I want to hook up with him or even hang out with him after how he's been acting but at least to show support. Now whenever I think about it I feel very bad vibes where-as a couple of days ago I felt even though it might not work out romantically it was nice we were so close again. I feel like what I did can easily be construed as hostile/ passive aggressive. I'm worried he's never going to contact me again and I will never get the chance to explain myself...
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Right, that's what I feel like him breaking up with me was about, and I accepted/ understood that, despite being upset. What is confusing me is that after all of that months later he insisted we go on a date? I asked him why this was ok now and not before and he had no answer. It's a two stage process, one part is him and his issues, nothing to do with you..this is his own internal problem. Second stage Is his feelings for you are not profound enough to encourage him to change that, he's going to want to "take it easy" for a while which in man speak is "I'm going to withhold deep emotion for you however give you enough feedback to confuse/string you along" He wants to go on a date because you're available, you're an easy ego-boost/support system, when life is down he simply calls you...however when life is up/distracted and he doesn't need you then that's where he feels it's not necessary to invest in you. You need to realize he's not going to be completely honest about his emotions, he's already made it clear...whenever a man avoids a question It's because he doesn't want to tell you the truth, not because he doesn't know the answer...he could even just avoid internalizing the question altogether. This is where I get confused. If HE has issues and is capable of mistreating someone he "loved," is it still about ME? Was it about his ex? Did he want to be with someone but not with us, or did he just not want the responsibility of being with someone at all? It seems like you think he thinks he would be settling by being with me. Am I twisting reality by thinking it is a general thing, and not me specifically that was the problem? And if I wasn't good enough, why? First part is not about you, IT's the bigger picture, it's how he sees and deals with relationships, which would include you. You can't change it, he has to want to change it and put in that effort. He's still going to be with other girls if he has the opportunity, he might stay out of the spotlight for a little while but eventually they'll be a replacement for you...he may learn to "make things less serious" he's going to find women that are insecure and are willing to deal with his "issues" that he does not battle...only after the fact of course when he's gotten what he wants/needs from her...and you will be the backup if possible or any other girl willing. You're good enough for a man out there, however not this one, his mind/heart isn't interesting in seeing what is there...It's like asking someone who is distracted to look at something you're trying to show them and all they do is a "oh yeah yeah I see it" but they're really not paying attention or invested...right now It is all about him and his life, not your feelings or who you are and what not, he's the priority. I'm afraid I don't really follow... why can't he care as much as he wants? Again, is it about my failings here? Why would he want to care more if he doesn't? He wants to give you the illusion that he cares more than he actually does. That's why he tells you nice and complimentary things, It helps him satisfy his need to show he has a heart while giving the impression to you that he's not necessarily uncaring It's just his own "issues" and problems. It's only a half-truth though and when it comes down to actually action It won't be there. But he wants you to believe that he really does...he cares about himself than you though and he doesn't have the feelings for you...so he does this little wishy washy process...It's confusing and feels weird because it's not the truth, men like this area because they can't be pinned down and held accountable It's like they're a ghost and you can't tell what's what. This is definitely true. What is confusing is that he was forthright before, and is not being forthright now... why did he decide to stop being honest? I definitely think he doesn't like feeling like the bad guy. Opportunity in me for what? Because now he needs to separate himself from you and detach himself from obligation...he doesn't want the responsibility of your emotions, at this stage of the game he can tell that he needs to cut you off before you become more invested, he's already used up his "light and fun" time, he recognizes the pattern and sees the process now since he's had experience with his ex-gf. All guys can see when the walls are closing in and the woman is making him the center of attention more than he's willing to commit, that's when they pull on the ejection seat and start back-pedaling, down playing thing and coming up with excuses to try and to pull away emotionally. So basically you think the issue at hand is that despite sort of liking me, he doesn't think I'm special enough to commit to? Mind you, I'm DEFINITELY not looking for marriage or even something super serious in general, and I don't know if I'm looking for anything from him at all... its just hard to understand what is about me and what is about him, and if its just about him acting this way because I'm not special enough, that hurts and feels like rejection. Think of it as renting out a car, It's going to be cheap for the first five months but after that It's going to be double. You like the car but you're not in love with the car, so at the end of those five months (or whatever time) you decide that as much fun as you had, as much as you liked it It's not something you're willing to pay double for (think in terms of emotions) so at this point you realize that this isn't want you're willing to settle on driving for the next X amount of time and take it back...however you don't want to offend the person you rented it from so you try and downplay the negatives or figure out ways to make it less "offensive". Now this doesn't mean he won't want to drive that car still, however It's not worth paying double for, he only wants it If he can get it at that low-flat rate in the beginning...otherwise It's too expensive and not worth the time and money...but he still likes it. You're telling yourself you're not looking for marriage or anything serious because you want to believe that going through this now and being his side thing will one day turn into something more serious...If you just stick it out in this grey area then one day It'll become black and white. That's another common trick most women play on themselves because they are so emotional. What you don't realize is that you're not a being that isn't going be affected by your relationships/experiences, every choice you make to invest emotionally is going to scar you in some way for the future. And what happens at the end of this is you won't be chosen, so any hurt and rejection you feel now will be multiplied by 3x. You'll become more invested, more emotional, more unable to see the reality than you are now and then you'll just accept the fact that you are too weak to control your emotions and that's where the real damage comes in. By you walking away now you save yourself from that potential...If you stay with this guy you risk so much more of yourself, don't give your heart out so easily, whatever happens you take with you through life...pain does not go away easily...and the reason I know this well is because I've been this guy...I'm 31 years old, I did a lot of game playing with women in my early to mid 20's and I know and see the damage I've caused, and that's the biggest reason I'm taking the time to explain all of this to you, because I know that If you just follow your heart It's going to possibly lead you into a lot of heartache, granted this guy probably isn't half as bad I was.
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 I'm feeling really low and confused about this. I still feel really bad not going to his event when I had said I would for a month and we had talked about it multiple times (even though he only had a small part setting it up, it was a photography event and he had modeled in several pictures for the photographer/ is sort of his muse & close friend, so it was an important event for him) I don't know what to think. I don't know if I'm making excuses for him and in reality he doesn't really like me that much / doesn't care if I went or not. Regardless, in the past he always went to silly events that I hosted/ was supportive of me when it really counted. And although he has been wishy washy about plans, he has been taking all the initiative to make them, and has been contacting me a lot, which is kind of a lot for him because he's sort of a passive low-energy guy & is flakey with everyone including his best friends. Maybe I was supposed to have put my insecurities aside, given him the benefit of the doubt and gone to this event just because I care about him, not because I want to hook up with him or even hang out with him after how he's been acting but at least to show support. Now whenever I think about it I feel very bad vibes where-as a couple of days ago I felt even though it might not work out romantically it was nice we were so close again. I feel like what I did can easily be construed as hostile/ passive aggressive. I'm worried he's never going to contact me again and I will never get the chance to explain myself... I know you're stuck in middle of your emotions right now, but remember a few things.. - He broke up with you - He made the decision to change things - He decided he didn't want your support anymore and wanted to change the "good thing" you feel you had going - He left you feeling this way by not giving enough, you had to pick up the pieces - He isn't going to be clear with you about his emotions with you, he is going to make this "complicated" because he can't tell you that he doesn't really care/love like you do...guys don't have the kind of courage, they don't want to see you cry, and be hurt...they don't want to feel like jerks, so they'd rather turn away - He knows that contacting you still is hurting you and confusing you, tell him to stop You need a support system, you are making excuses for him...you are trying to bend for him because of your emotions but you can't see that now. You are not being unreasonable, he just simply left you and that's never an easy thing to deal with or accept...but It's not your fault, stop blaming yourself...he's not the one for you and you will realize that If you give yourself the opportunity to get over him and move on, or you'll just be in limbo as long as you still in contact with him.
Author my body is a cage Posted May 4, 2012 Author Posted May 4, 2012 Think of it as renting out a car, It's going to be cheap for the first five months but after that It's going to be double. You like the car but you're not in love with the car, so at the end of those five months (or whatever time) you decide that as much fun as you had, as much as you liked it It's not something you're willing to pay double for (think in terms of emotions) so at this point you realize that this isn't want you're willing to settle on driving for the next X amount of time and take it back...however you don't want to offend the person you rented it from so you try and downplay the negatives or figure out ways to make it less "offensive". Now this doesn't mean he won't want to drive that car still, however It's not worth paying double for, he only wants it If he can get it at that low-flat rate in the beginning...otherwise It's too expensive and not worth the time and money...but he still likes it. Ok, fair. To run with this analogy: is sit possible that he doesn't have the money (emotional currency) to buy any car, so he is only looking to rent? IE, when you say he is distracted etc, is that because at this time he really doesn't want to /cannot invest emotionally in anyone? Or if he loved the car enough would he blow all of his life savings for it no matter what? What would he love about the car so much to compel him to do that if he doesn't have the resources? I'm not asking because I want to be with him, necessarily. I'm just trying to make sense of things. I'm trying to understand if things are sometimes more objective or if they're always personal. Is, 'it's not you, its me right now,' always a lie?
Author my body is a cage Posted May 4, 2012 Author Posted May 4, 2012 - He isn't going to be clear with you about his emotions with you, he is going to make this "complicated" because he can't tell you that he doesn't really care/love like you do...guys don't have the kind of courage, they don't want to see you cry, and be hurt...they don't want to feel like jerks, so they'd rather turn away - He knows that contacting you still is hurting you and confusing you, tell him to stop These seem contradictory: he doesn't want to hurt me, but he knows he's hurting me? He didn't have to ask me on a date after we broke up (and then keep asking then bailing). If he knows, why is he doing that?
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Ok, fair. To run with this analogy: is sit possible that he doesn't have the money (emotional currency) to buy any car, so he is only looking to rent? IE, when you say he is distracted etc, is that because at this time he really doesn't want to /cannot invest emotionally in anyone? Or if he loved the car enough would he blow all of his life savings for it no matter what? What would he love about the car so much to compel him to do that if he doesn't have the resources? I'm not asking because I want to be with him, necessarily. I'm just trying to make sense of things. I'm trying to understand if things are sometimes more objective or if they're always personal. Is, 'it's not you, its me right now,' always a lie? He has the money, he just doesn't have the will or motivation to invest in. It takes a desire and emotional level to exceed to that level, granted he is young and for men it's hard to understand and sometimes navigate that emotional barrier...people usually play out personal issues in their childhood and upbringing into their relationships, but that's a whole other can of worms. In terms of explaining that out to you as well, I don't know enough about him to understand where he psychologically is coming from, all I can tell is by his acts he is not truly interested in investing, regardless of what personal issues he has...five months isn't exactly an amount of time where a man is truly invested to that level, he's bailing out before he can get there because he wants to withdraw...not because he has the emotional capacity to love/have feelings for you but on the contrary, realizes that he does not therefore cutting out the "drama"..your level of expectations/needs. Understand that fundamentally, men unlike women don't go into situations/encounters with women worried or concerned about the long-term or relationship. Their motives are based off sex, intimacy and companionship...feelings, emotional investment, future plans are what comes later...which is why you'll see guys come into the relationship/dating like a bull on fire, then smash on the brakes and turn running. The phase is switching to a greater investment in which they are not interested, unless It's the right girl. If it's the right girl a man will invest even If It was unintentional or unexpected, like women we can be overcome with emotion as well and find ourselves unsuspectingly invested/connected with a woman to a greater degree than anticipated (for example we just thought for fun). In that situation we will abandon our previous mindset and let things escalate, otherwise we abandon the situation If it appears "typical" as most women emotionally attach and then start having expectations the longer you are with them. He has to be compelled emotionally beyond his control, he has to want and feel that emotion to buy the car...It's not something he controls. It's not in your ability to decide this or persuade yourself into it, that's why sticking around with the man wouldn't change things...It's already decided early on...I know quickly whether a woman has the ability to provoke me to that emotional level, and I think most men do. Otherwise If she's just "typical" then I know I'll be in charge of my emotions, able to keep you at a distance and able to play these kind of push and pull games...you can't play those kind of games when you're really into someone and have strong emotions for them because the emotion to be with them is more overwhelming than reason or personal barriers...just like when you like a guy reason goes out the window and things that would have been bad aren't so bad once you have emotions invested, you don't see things the same way. 'it's not you, its me right now,' always a lie? For the most part yes, because a man already knows going into it whether It's going to be you or not. It just doesn't hit him one day that "oh...you know what?, gee I'm not ready to be in a relationship with you!" This isn't one of those surprise act things in most situations, the only situations where people go into that get surprised like this are people who are emotionally invested and attached to an ex prior to being with you then jump into a relationship with someone new...but the majority of people do that so this really isn't an exception...the fact of the matter is you're not ever going to be HER/HIM in that situation, and people hold onto that and can't let that go. Generally a man knows, this is just a method of trying to make you feel less bad about yourself and not take it personal...It's like when you break up with your bf all your girlfriends say "he's such a jerk...such an *******, you deserve better than that, etc.." It's just one of those things people automatically say...It's to "comfort" you. It's ok to feel bad and recognize your feelings, and hurt and feel rejected/not good enough. This is natural and we all feel this way at some point in our lives, It's not something to push away or be ashamed of. Own how you feel, accept how you feel, let it run through you because that's the only way you get through things in life...If you push them away they only build up behind a dam you repress them behind. In the end you'll realize It's not because you weren't good enough, It's because there are some messed up people out there, and a lot of people do selfish things and care more about themselves than others. They feel sorry for themselves, and only recognize their own pain and suffering, men do this a lot...and it's what allows them to disconnect from their deeds and inflict suffering on women...you pay the consequences for our issues and inability to be honest and truthful...he's afraid to lose you, not because he he's in love you, but because he's afraid to be alone and lose that support system. Realize that people do many things out of fear...including yourself.
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 These seem contradictory: he doesn't want to hurt me, but he knows he's hurting me? He didn't have to ask me on a date after we broke up (and then keep asking then bailing). If he knows, why is he doing that? Men want to have their cake and eat it too. He knows he's hurting you, but his desire and use for you is more important than hurting you ultimately. He is trying to make the "right" decision, by letting you go, be he likely isn't wise enough or strong enough to let you go because you make it easy...you're readily available and there when he calls/needs you in some capacity or he at least knows you're thinking of him. Like you he's trying to twist this into a manageable situation and convince himself he's not really hurting you because he's treating you with "respect" or "kindness"...he will expect to just roll over that little thing about "how you feel" and still be there in the same capacity as a pseudo GF. This is what makes women enticing to us, your ability to care/nurture/support/love and often times you bend backwards and accept little in return for it...we lower the price for it...but instead of slapping us across the face for even trying it...most will just lower the price, so it creates a pattern for men that is hard to avoid...women make it too easy once they're emotional invested and because of that, most men try to push you away but a womans persistence and hope do her in and that man conforms her to whatever it is he needs...for the meantime and until there's a replacement/something better.
Author my body is a cage Posted May 4, 2012 Author Posted May 4, 2012 For the most part yes, because a man already knows going into it whether It's going to be you or not. It just doesn't hit him one day that "oh...you know what?, gee I'm not ready to be in a relationship with you!" This isn't one of those surprise act things in most situations, the only situations where people go into that get surprised like this are people who are emotionally invested and attached to an ex prior to being with you then jump into a relationship with someone new...but the majority of people do that so this really isn't an exception...the fact of the matter is you're not ever going to be HER/HIM in that situation, and people hold onto that and can't let that go. OK first I want to say again thank you so much for taking the time to write such in depth answers. Sorry to keep asking you more questions but there's one thing I omitted before because I didn't want to get into too many personal details but it seems really relevant based on what you said... The thing is, his 3 year relationship ended recently because the girl finally figured out he was cheating on her nonstop when he got into a car crash with another girl. Since them, him and his ex have been in constant contact. When he broke up with me, she had just come to visit the city we live in and they had met up. He told me she was coming and said it was sad, I said how so? He said that romantically their relationship was over but its nice to know they had a relationship of some sort. They met up twice for dinner, I asked if he had feelings for her still, he said some sort of feelings but he didn't want to date her because he cheated on her all the time so something must be wrong... Fast forward two weeks or so, he has been acting sort of weird. Finally, he breaks up with me, telling me "thing have gotten somewhat serious in a way that I had not anticipated," and "i'm still too invested in my ex girlfriend to be more serious with anyone. This is something I have just recently come to realize." ... Not sure if that changes anything at all, I just wanted to point out that when he broke up with me he specifically stated that he had not anticipated things would become serious, which is almost exactly what you wrote, and also that he did not until recently realize that he had feelings for his ex. I don't know if this means I'm a rebound or not, but regardless I don't know why he would toy with me like this now. On the flip side, I may as well accept that he does not have emotions for me. The thing is, I don't only feel rejected and unwanted because of this specifically, but generally always feel that no one would ever want/ have feelings for me. I know that people generally always want to sleep with me, but usually nothing more. I guess I should just let it rest.
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