Do any of you women like unconfident and insecure guys?

[jobaba]

 

You want reasons? Oh, I'll give you reasons.

 

1) Society has different expectations of men and women. Given that, you have to admit there are advantages to playing the game according to your prescribed gender role. Society in general approves of it, and the person you're lusting after respects you for it. So why would women go against the grain and put themselves in the role of pursuer? They have nothing to gain. Sure, it would make your life easier, but that's not incentive for the woman. Remember, she doesn't know you. All she knows is that you're not approaching, which means you're either lazy, insecure, or not interested (in her mind). None of those things make her want to approach you.

 

You're basically asking women to become the man which, by default, would make you the woman. And you wonder why women don't want to do that? The straight ones want to date men who are proud to be men. Not men who wish they could be women for a little while. That's not an attractive quality.

 

2) It's not a woman's job to overcome your shyness for you. Women don't approach men because they don't want to. There's nothing in it for them. Do you know how women feel when they approach a guy? Unwanted. Even if the guy is receptive to the approach, the woman still thinks "He didn't really want me. I had to approach him. Of course he's not gonna turn that down, he's a guy, he'll take whatever he can get. If he really wanted me, he would have approached me." And before you ask, no, women do not enjoy that feeling.

 

When you make the effort to approach her, it shows a high level of interest, which reassures her. But if she has to approach you, she walks away thinking "He only asked me out because I threw myself at him. He doesn't really like me." You might feel successful, but she sure as hell doesn't. There is no outcome that would make a woman feel good about approaching a guy. Whether he asks her out or not, she's still left with the crappy feeling of "How come he wasn't interested enough to approach me?"

 

Think of it this way: When you go to an event and they give you a free T-shirt, you take it even if you don't really want it, right? Because it's free, so you might as well. Women don't want to feel like they're the free T-shirt.

 

3) Women who make the first move are often judged negatively for it. They're labeled desperate, pathetic, easy, etc. Society is not kind to women who chase men.

 

So have I covered everything? Women don't make the first move because they don't want men who are lazy or timid, it would make them feel unwanted and undesirable, and they would be judged and ridiculed for it. They have to deal with all that on top of the fear of rejection.

 

This is a really good post. It makes me want to go out and hit on women.

 

But then I remember all the times that I've gotten up the courage and been rejected.

 

The only problem is ... women only appreciate men approaching them if it is a man they are interested in.

 

Most of the men asking for advice on this issue don't have women give them true buying signals, so they are going to have to approach many women and hope one of them is pretty open minded.

 

The guys who women want to approach get very clear buying signals and/or have such a good success ratio that approaching is pretty easy for them.

 

Still ... it's a well written post and it does make a lot of sense, although more and more women are approaching these days.

[somedude81]

 

Yes, it's understandable to be a little hesitant and worry about rejection. But it's not understandable to be so paralyzed by the fear of rejection that you can't even bring yourself to talk to a girl. Feel the fear, but do it anyway.

So tell me Cypress, how good are you at cold calling sales?

 

You can go up to random people and try to get them to do something that they normally wouldn't want to do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

So why would women go against the grain and put themselves in the role of pursuer? They have nothing to gain. Sure, it would make your life easier, but that's not incentive for the woman.

 

 

 

You're basically asking women to become the man which, by default, would make you the woman

IMO, nobody wants to be the man. There is simply way too much pressure. With dating the man has to do 90% of the work.

 

I know I'm sounding like a total whiner or whatever, but this game is simply not fair. The odds are so stacked against men it's insane. It already feels like I'm in little league, playing against a the Yankees. Through in being insecure and short, and I might as well be playing in a wheel chair.

 

That is why there is so much anger, frustration and bitterness coming from men. Do you have any idea how much it sucks to really really want something, and to keep trying at it, only to fail over and over?

 

It's almost as if women think that men don't have any emotions and we are just robots who can't feel pain.

 

 

It's not a woman's job to overcome your shyness for you. Women don't approach men because they don't want to. There's nothing in it for them.

There's nothing in it for men either.

 

Who would you rather be, the person sitting at the desk looking through the stack of resumes, or resume number 59 of 173?

 

Men simply have no advantages with the current system. While a smart woman, can get just about everything she wants.

 

When you make the effort to approach her, it shows a high level of interest, which reassures her.

Why does a woman need to be reassured?

 

And even then, high level of interest shown or not, it's still not going to stop her from rejecting the guy.

 

3) Women who make the first move are often judged negatively for it. They're labeled desperate, pathetic, easy, etc. Society is not kind to women who chase men.

That is a problem with society. But society can and does change.

 

Not doing it is what gets you into trouble. A woman can usually tell if a guy has a crush on her, so if you keep staring at her longingly and never make a move, she'll know your secret.

I wasn't aware you were still in Jr. High.

[Titania22]

While a smart woman, can get just about everything she wants.

 

 

Are you saying I am not smart. (Me and the other ladies on ls having man troubles.)

[somedude81]

Are you saying I am not smart. (Me and the other ladies on ls having man troubles.)

I don't know about other ladies, but I think your approach is off and your target may be as well.

 

First you need to decide on what type of man you want, which includes his profession type (laborer, banker, Doctor/laywer) and what ages your are interested in. Then find out where they are going to be outside of work and then spark their interest.

[Cypress25]

So tell me Cypress, how good are you at cold calling sales?

 

You can go up to random people and try to get them to do something that they normally wouldn't want to do?

 

I've done it before as part of my job. I didn't like it and it made me uncomfortable, but I did it anyway. Some people wanted what I was selling, some people didn't. We all have to do things that make us nervous (apply for jobs, go on interviews, etc) and it's not easy, but it's not impossible either.

 

IMO, nobody wants to be the man. There is simply way too much pressure. With dating the man has to do 90% of the work.

 

Actually, there are plenty of men who rise to the occasion. They're not rock stars or anything, they're just normal guys, but they like being men and they're happy to initiate (even if they get rejected) because that's how they express interest to women. They don't see it as something they're being forced to do, kicking and screaming. It's just in their nature to take the initiative. It feels totally natural to them, they're not secretly wishing that women would do it for them.

 

I know I'm sounding like a total whiner or whatever, but this game is simply not fair. The odds are so stacked against men it's insane. It already feels like I'm in little league, playing against a the Yankees. Through in being insecure and short, and I might as well be playing in a wheel chair.

 

Being short is not a handicap. I know there have been endless threads about this, but you're the only one who thinks your height is a problem. Some women even prefer short guys. I know plenty of short men who do very well with women. And no, they're not rich or muscular. Your attitude, your insecurity, your complete lack of social skills with women...that's the stuff that's holding you back.

 

That is why there is so much anger, frustration and bitterness coming from men. Do you have any idea how much it sucks to really really want something, and to keep trying at it, only to fail over and over?

 

Yes, in fact, I know exactly how that feels. You think I've never been dumped before? You think I've never tried to repair a broken relationship and failed? Women experience rejection and heartache too.

 

There's nothing in it for men either.

 

Umm...How about the possibility that she'll say yes? You just assume that you'll get rejected every time, but rejection is not a given. She might like you! But you'll never know if you're too afraid to approach her. Even if she says no, just the fact that you had the guts to make a move will make her respect you. Men who approach women are held in higher esteem, by women and by society in general. Women who approach men, on the other hand, often lose people's respect because they think women who chase men are desperate.

 

Why does a woman need to be reassured?

 

Well, she's not gonna go out with you if she thinks you don't really like her. If you act disinterested, she'll stay away from you.

 

And even then, high level of interest shown or not, it's still not going to stop her from rejecting the guy.

 

Nothing will stop anyone from rejecting people. But showing interest greatly increases your chance of success. By not showing interest, you doom yourself to failure.

 

I wasn't aware you were still in Jr. High.

 

This coming from the guy who's too timid to make a move. Most guys get over that fear when they're 15. That's the main reason that timid guys are so unattractive to adult women. It's because they're acting like preteen boys who are still afraid of girls. It's a sign of immaturity.

[somedude81]

I've done it before as part of my job. I didn't like it and it made me uncomfortable, but I did it anyway. Some people wanted what I was selling, some people didn't. We all have to do things that make us nervous (apply for jobs, go on interviews, etc) and it's not easy, but it's not impossible either.

I never said it was impossible. But you do understand that it sucks.

 

 

Actually, there are plenty of men who rise to the occasion. They're not rock stars or anything, they're just normal guys, but they like being men and they're happy to initiate (even if they get rejected) because that's how they express interest to women. They don't see it as something they're being forced to do, kicking and screaming. It's just in their nature to take the initiative. It feels totally natural to them, they're not secretly wishing that women would do it for them.

I'd actually say that the number of men who do the cold approach thing, is far fewer than you think it is. And out of the men who do do it, most are just looking for sex.

 

 

Being short is not a handicap. I know there have been endless threads about this, but you're the only one who thinks your height is a problem.

Tall, dark and handsome.

 

Enough said.

 

Some women even prefer short guys.

And some women prefer horses.

 

Doesn't mean that they are a significant number of the population.

 

 

I know plenty of short men who do very well with women. And no, they're not rich or muscular.

Oh. And how short are these men?

 

Your attitude, your insecurity, your complete lack of social skills with women...that's the stuff that's holding you back.

So you are saying that physical attraction plays no part?

 

 

 

Yes, in fact, I know exactly how that feels. You think I've never been dumped before? You think I've never tried to repair a broken relationship and failed? Women experience rejection and heartache too.

Unless you've been dumped in at least 70% of your relationships, you can't understand. Having things go wrong is one thing, having them always go wrong, till you get to the point where you feel that they will never go right, is something entirely different.

Umm...How about the possibility that she'll say yes? You just assume that you'll get rejected every time, but rejection is not a given. She might like you! But you'll never know if you're too afraid to approach her.

And that's why I still bother. Because maybe I'll get lucky for once.

 

As negative as I sound, I still haven't given up hope.

 

 

Even if she says no, just the fact that you had the guts to make a move will make her respect you.

Even if that were true, how can that be of any benefit to me?

 

Men who approach women are held in higher esteem, by women and by society in general.

Eh, that's debatable.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't want a girl that had rejected me to tell anybody about what happened.

 

I can just imagine a few girls at my work during break.

 

A: SD81 just asked me out.

B: Really? He asked me out a few weeks ago

C: Me too!

 

Yeah, that will look good for me.

 

Well, she's not gonna go out with you if she thinks you don't really like her. If you act disinterested, she'll stay away from you.

 

Nothing will stop anyone from rejecting people. But showing interest greatly increases your chance of success. By not showing interest, you doom yourself to failure.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/324547-girls-i-hope-you-never-sound-desparate

This coming from the guy who's too timid to make a move. Most guys get over that fear when they're 15.

That's because they eventually start having success.

 

I have no reason to believe that me making a move will result in anything other then me getting hurt.

 

That's the main reason that timid guys are so unattractive to adult women. It's because they're acting like preteen boys who are still afraid of girls. It's a sign of immaturity.

And that's only because of a lack of empathy for them.

 

Of course it's ridiculous to expect a woman to feel sorry for me. All I can do is suck it up and keep trying.

[Cypress25]

I'd actually say that the number of men who do the cold approach thing, is far fewer than you think it is. And out of the men who do do it, most are just looking for sex.

 

I'm not even talking about cold approaches. I'm talking about guys who pursue women they know, whether they met them through school, work, mutual friends, a shared activity, etc. Guy meets girl, chats with her on a few occasions, then asks her out and proceeds to escalate until they're dating. This would be a guy who knows how to flirt and how to gradually escalate physical and emotional intimacy. Guys who are timid and insecure don't know how to do those things, which means dating them is not enjoyable for women.

 

Even guys who do cold approaches in bars are not necessarily looking for a one-night stand. Some of them are, but some of them aren't.

 

Tall, dark and handsome.

 

That is not everyone's ideal. It's a stereotype.

 

Oh. And how short are these men?

 

About 5'5" to 5'7". That's what they say, although they seem taller to me. Maybe because I'm short, I don't know. Carrying yourself with confidence can make you seem taller.

 

So you are saying that physical attraction plays no part?

 

Of course it does, but are you really ugly? If not, then plenty of girls would find you attractive. Women look at a man's face, first and foremost. As long as you're kinda cute, your height won't make you less attractive. Try to understand, women who prefer taller men...it's not because they think short men are ugly. It's because some women feel awkward if the guy is her height. So don't pursue those women or pursue women who are shorter than you.

 

Even if that were true, how can that be of any benefit to me?

 

Doesn't it make you feel good to be respected? Just because a woman doesn't want to date you doesn't mean she thinks you're a terrible person. She might actually think highly of you, even if she doesn't have a romantic interest in you.

 

And that's only because of a lack of empathy for them.

 

Of course it's ridiculous to expect a woman to feel sorry for me. All I can do is suck it up and keep trying.

 

You don't really want women to date you out of pity, do you? Feeling sorry for someone is not a good thing. Empathy is one thing, but you can't expect people to choose their romantic partners based on empathy. You wouldn't want to date a woman who acted like a 14-year-old kid either. Dating is supposed to be fun, and there's nothing fun about dating a guy who's so timid and awkward that he doesn't know what to do.

[SJC2008]

Carrying yourself with confidence can make you seem taller.

 

LOL alright already, seriously.

[Badsingularity]

LOL alright already, seriously.

 

What Cypress said is completely accurate.

 

Women often perceive confident men to be taller than they actually are.

[WhiteChocolate]

Yep. I've mentioned the guy I had a crush on a few months ago was 5'4'' right? Same height as me.

 

I wouldn't even notice unless we were walking next to each other. And I didn't care since he has such a sunny personality, beautiful smile, happy eyes...:love:

 

When he walked in the room he'd just come in with a smile and greet everyone in it and crack a joke...he had an infectious laugh and wonderful voice too...okay okay I'll stop now. :bunny:

 

He actually wasn't as into me as I was into him.

 

So sure, some girls will have height requirements. But many don't.

[AlexDP]

No. I mean, I can sympathize with them, but I have no interest in dating them. Those guys are usually awkward and painfully shy, and they make everyone around them uncomfortable. It's damn near impossible to have a good conversation with them. Timid guys were cute in middle school, but now they're just annoying. It's like they never grew up.

 

This is the key. This is why girls are not attracted to guys without confidence.

[Caius Ballad]

Notice how women expect men in general to have no emotional flaws.

[Badsingularity]

Notice how women expect men in general to have no emotional flaws.

 

Men should strive to be emotionally strong. When a man is emotionally strong women will feel safe and protected when they are aound him and he will be able to handle all the hard things that life throws his way.