Do any of you women like unconfident and insecure guys?

[RiverRunning]

I don't mind a LITTLE insecurity. But if he comes in and looks like he's about to pass out, it's a bad sign. Lots of guys shadow their insecurity with faux displays of arrogance, too. If he's going to walk in and talk about how awesome he is, how awesome of a job he has, how hot he is, etc., color me not interested in the least.

 

If he's got so much to show off, he needn't go on a five-hour brag talk about it.

[surferchic]

I don't mind a little insecurity either. We are all that way at some point.

 

However... the problem IMO is that when a guy is really shy along w/ insecurities and being socially awkward, he may do ANYTHING to try gaining control of a situation or you even. I think thee are some of the men who become abusive . And people never believe the women who date them when the women tell people how difficult these men are to read and deal with.

[verhrzn]

My thing is, it's very difficult to read between "shy" and "uninterested" and "insecure" and "desperate." After a while, they all kind of converge and morph together. And while dating a shy guy might not be so bad, dating an uninterested/desperate guy is very painful and humiliating. You have only to glance at my dating history threads to see that.

[stitch702]

I like a girl who has confidence....not cockiness....I like a girl who may be shy...not insecure...

 

I sometimes believe confidence can be mistaken for acting like your the **** and are better than everyone around you. I tend to disagree. I believe being confident is being comfortable with who you are and knowing that you are capable of accomplishing anything. Confidence does play a big role in being attractive. It's just how you portray it. I've known people who are confident in that they are nerdy and dorky. They play video games, have their own inside jokes, and watch star trek. But they are not afraid to admit it and pull in girls with just being who they are.

 

If you are confident with who you are as a person, then that shows off to other people and may attract people of the opposite gender. I'm just saying...

[Pyro]

Not really.

 

I could still like a woman who is unconfident and insecure.

 

you are confusing me here Ross.........you gave two different answers.

 

Tell us what you mean when you think of someone who is insecure and lacking confidence.

[jobaba]

 

That is why I rarely approach women. I have zero confidence in myself that I could go up to a random woman I've never seen before, and talk to her a few minutes then get her number. If I did try that, it would be plainly obvious to anybody that I'm lacking confidence. Though I do have a secret to making sure I don't look confident doing something. By not doing it.

 

One thing I do want to say, is that my comfort zone for approaching and talking to women has significantly increased. At the end of class last night, I approached and started a conversation with a girl in the class that I had never spoken to before and walked and talked with her for a few minutes. Fear didn't cross my mind at all. I wanted to talk to her so I did. I wasn't feeling nervous at all, and I'm sure that if I didn't have a bus to catch, I could have asked for her number. That's a huge change from how I used to be.

 

Let me tell you something bro. A LOT of men are scared to do this. Good looking guys. A lot of guys who are successful with women are afraid. Rejection sucks.

 

Anecdote...

 

I have a friend/acquaintance of mine who is like a fairly ideal guy: smart, went to one of the best schools in the country, owns his own business, funny, good looking, and is a pretty nice guy too. He's had girlfriends since high school and married his college sweetheart, so he never had to 'play the field'.

 

Sometimes we'd go with him to the bars in our early 20s, when he was already dating his wife to be. Me and my other buddy approached a couple of women, got some lame ass conversation out of them and it fizzled. And the guy was like, "How do you approach strange women? What do say to them? Isn't it weird? I'd be scared."

 

The point is ... approaching a stranger or any woman outside of a platonic social interaction is not 'natural' for a man. For good guys, it's forced upon them because they have had a tough time meeting girls for whatever reason.

 

So ... don't feel like you are a pussy because you can't just go up to a girl at the bus stop and start shmoozing. Women who expect men to have this kind of courage intrinsically are unreasonable.

Edited May 3, 2012 by jobaba

[zengirl]

Originally Posted by somedude81

 

That is why I rarely approach women. I have zero confidence in myself that I could go up to a random woman I've never seen before, and talk to her a few minutes then get her number. If I did try that, it would be plainly obvious to anybody that I'm lacking confidence. Though I do have a secret to making sure I don't look confident doing something. By not doing it.

 

One thing I do want to say, is that my comfort zone for approaching and talking to women has significantly increased. At the end of class last night, I approached and started a conversation with a girl in the class that I had never spoken to before and walked and talked with her for a few minutes. Fear didn't cross my mind at all. I wanted to talk to her so I did. I wasn't feeling nervous at all, and I'm sure that if I didn't have a bus to catch, I could have asked for her number. That's a huge change from how I used to be.

 

There is the potential that the more you do it, the more confident you will become, even if you fail. That's generally how most people get confident facing rejection --- not by not getting rejected but by realizing they can easily deal with the rejection and feeling stronger for that fact.

[Almond_Joy]

Define unconfident and insecure.

 

I ask because it takes different forms. In some, they overcompensate by being like Ricko Suave... over the top with put upon fake confidence.

 

Others express it by making negative comments about you to bring you down to their level

 

Another group just whines incessently asking for constant reassurance

 

With all of the three though, I've learned that the second they develop any 'confidence' they dump their patient and loving GF's for the BBD. Because deep inside they never had any respect for someone who would put up with that shyte or, they just get a whacked out idea that they can do 'better' with all the new skills they've learned.

 

That's why I won't go there. I don't want a 'project' and I want a guy who sees the downsides of having lots of options. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

 

 

This has also been my experience.

[bac]

Just wondering.

 

Sure, I do. Especially, if they are wealthy, intelligent, good-looking and about 7 inches with decent erection during intercourse.

[somedude81]

Let me tell you something bro. A LOT of men are scared to do this. Good looking guys. A lot of guys who are successful with women are afraid. Rejection sucks.

 

Anecdote...

 

I have a friend/acquaintance of mine who is like a fairly ideal guy: smart, went to one of the best schools in the country, owns his own business, funny, good looking, and is a pretty nice guy too. He's had girlfriends since high school and married his college sweetheart, so he never had to 'play the field'.

 

Sometimes we'd go with him to the bars in our early 20s, when he was already dating his wife to be. Me and my other buddy approached a couple of women, got some lame ass conversation out of them and it fizzled. And the guy was like, "How do you approach strange women? What do say to them? Isn't it weird? I'd be scared."

 

The point is ... approaching a stranger or any woman outside of a platonic social interaction is not 'natural' for a man. For good guys, it's forced upon them because they have had a tough time meeting girls for whatever reason.

 

So ... don't feel like you are a pussy because you can't just go up to a girl at the bus stop and start shmoozing. Women who expect men to have this kind of courage intrinsically are unreasonable.

I'm very relieved to hear that.

 

Recently, I've hit the point where I can go up to and talk to just about anybody as long as we have something in common. I had no issue approaching the girl last night because we are in the same class, and she had just finished a presentation, so I have a no brainer of a conversation starter with her. That's simple.

 

But being in a place where you have to do a cold approach? What do you say to a girl sitting at a bar? The only thing that comes to mind are cheesy pickup lines.

 

I thought I was really off that I wasn't able to do the random approach. Good to know that it's not the case.

There is the potential that the more you do it, the more confident you will become, even if you fail. That's generally how most people get confident facing rejection --- not by not getting rejected but by realizing they can easily deal with the rejection and feeling stronger for that fact.

I'm not really afraid of rejection, I know that it's basically inevitable. So what I try to do is minimize the chances.

 

Realistically, it's not going through the rejection that improves my confidence, it's having a positive social interaction that does it and then being able to go further with it. It feels good being able to go up to a girl I don't really know and have a decent conversation with her. But in order to limit the negative experiences, I need to pick my targets. Having nothing but failures, for example, stilted awkward conversations, would only make me feel worse.

[SJC2008]

When will some of the women on this forum concede that the majority of people meet their so's at work, school, or through friends? If men have to be these noble worriors in the light they speak of them, civilization would of been extinct many years ago. The kind of woman I want to be with is one who lets a man lead a relationship but will be there for me in time of distress and not pull any confidence/pu$$y crap. There are men out there who are steel curtains, he's the one you slept with and never heard from again.

[Ross MwcFan]

you are confusing me here Ross.........you gave two different answers.

 

Tell us what you mean when you think of someone who is insecure and lacking confidence.

 

Not being confident with who you are as a person, feeling like you're unappealing, feeling nervous and awkward, and kinda feeling like you're not worthy.

 

The reason why I said not really, was because you were talking about someone who didn't trust me. I don't think it has to mean that if someone is unconfident and insecure that they don't trust you.

[Pyro]

Not being confident with who you are as a person, feeling like you're unappealing, feeling nervous and awkward, and kinda feeling like you're not worthy.

 

The reason why I said not really, was because you were talking about someone who didn't trust me. I don't think it has to mean that if someone is unconfident and insecure that they don't trust you.

 

that is one of the traits of being insecure and dealing with a person like that was never fun for me and it wouldn't be for anyone.

 

Trust me when I say that being alone will always be better than being with someone who is the way that you described above.

[somedude81]

Not being confident with who you are as a person, feeling like you're unappealing, feeling nervous and awkward, and kinda feeling like you're not worthy.

 

The reason why I said not really, was because you were talking about someone who didn't trust me. I don't think it has to mean that if someone is unconfident and insecure that they don't trust you.

 

that is one of the traits of being insecure and dealing with a person like that was never fun for me and it wouldn't be for anyone.

 

Trust me when I say that being alone will always be better than being with someone who is the way that you described above.

That almost gives me an idea what it would be like to date a certain woman on this forum.

 

She'd probably be in need of constant reassurance and I'm sure it would get old fast.

 

BTW, lets not mention anybody by name.

[Ross MwcFan]

that is one of the traits of being insecure and dealing with a person like that was never fun for me and it wouldn't be for anyone.

 

Trust me when I say that being alone will always be better than being with someone who is the way that you described above.

 

Not for me.

[johan]

Not for me.

 

But you also have to admit that you don't actualy know what it is like to be with someone like that. I've known guys who were desperate to get girlfriends, only to find out actually having one is sometimes not that great. And those guys got out of those relationships. They decided nothing was better than being with a woman who brings issues like that to the table.

[Ross MwcFan]

But you also have to admit that you don't actualy know what it is like to be with someone like that. I've known guys who were desperate to get girlfriends, only to find out actually having one is sometimes not that great. And those guys got out of those relationships. They decided nothing was better than being with a woman who brings issues like that to the table.

 

I honestley cannot imagine it being that way for me.

[johan]

I honestley cannot imagine it being that way for me.

 

I'm sure you can't. I can imagine it that way on your behalf though.

[Ross MwcFan]

I'm sure you can't. I can imagine it that way on your behalf though.

 

Doesn't have to mean that it's true though.

[FitChick]

One thing that might help you guys is to stop making talking to a girl a life or death matter. Approach her because she looks interesting and you want to get to know her better. You want to know if she would be right for you, not the reverse, because you can't control her feelings. After a few minutes talking you might not like her at all. If she walks away, you can pat yourself on the back for talking to her in the first place.

 

If you think about it, you are probably most relaxed talking to someone you don't give a damn about. Like that old lady at the bus stop or some middle-aged man in line at the supermarket. "Shooting the breeze" my dad called it.

[Cypress25]

Give us examples and don't tell me it's something you can sense.

 

I already gave examples. When a guy stands in the corner, sneaking glances at a pretty girl that he wants to talk to, but never actually does...that tells the girl that he has no confidence.

 

Lol these posts make it sound like unless you're a night in shining armor we'll never get gf's.

 

No, unless you make a move, you'll never get a girlfriend. You don't have to be a knight in shining armor, you just have to get up the nerve to approach a woman and initiate contact.

 

I guess the real question is how to define "unconfident" and "insecure".

 

To me, it's being hesitant or scared to "make a move" and looking to the woman to do most of the escalation.

 

That's how I define it too.

 

Isn't it understandable to be hesitant to flirt or make a move and be afraid o rejection. After all a lot of guys get rejected all the time or waay more than accepted. And rejection doesn't exactly feel great. And some women can be cold when rejecting.

 

Yes, it's understandable to be a little hesitant and worry about rejection. But it's not understandable to be so paralyzed by the fear of rejection that you can't even bring yourself to talk to a girl. Feel the fear, but do it anyway. That's what confident people do. It's not that confident people never worry about rejection; they do, but that doesn't stop them from trying. They know there's a risk of rejection, but they're willing to try anyway. They don't let their fears hold them back.

 

What's wrong with wanting women to make the first move?

 

The problem with that is, you want women to take the risk so you don't have to. Women worry about rejection too, you know. Waiting for a woman to make the first move is a good way of communicating to her that you're timid and insecure. And why would she want to date someone who's timid and insecure? That's not attractive.

 

I'm just saying it makes all the sense in the world for women to make the first move. In fact there's no reason why they shouldn't.

 

You want reasons? Oh, I'll give you reasons.

 

1) Society has different expectations of men and women. Given that, you have to admit there are advantages to playing the game according to your prescribed gender role. Society in general approves of it, and the person you're lusting after respects you for it. So why would women go against the grain and put themselves in the role of pursuer? They have nothing to gain. Sure, it would make your life easier, but that's not incentive for the woman. Remember, she doesn't know you. All she knows is that you're not approaching, which means you're either lazy, insecure, or not interested (in her mind). None of those things make her want to approach you.

 

You're basically asking women to become the man which, by default, would make you the woman. And you wonder why women don't want to do that? The straight ones want to date men who are proud to be men. Not men who wish they could be women for a little while. That's not an attractive quality.

 

2) It's not a woman's job to overcome your shyness for you. Women don't approach men because they don't want to. There's nothing in it for them. Do you know how women feel when they approach a guy? Unwanted. Even if the guy is receptive to the approach, the woman still thinks "He didn't really want me. I had to approach him. Of course he's not gonna turn that down, he's a guy, he'll take whatever he can get. If he really wanted me, he would have approached me." And before you ask, no, women do not enjoy that feeling.

 

When you make the effort to approach her, it shows a high level of interest, which reassures her. But if she has to approach you, she walks away thinking "He only asked me out because I threw myself at him. He doesn't really like me." You might feel successful, but she sure as hell doesn't. There is no outcome that would make a woman feel good about approaching a guy. Whether he asks her out or not, she's still left with the crappy feeling of "How come he wasn't interested enough to approach me?"

 

Think of it this way: When you go to an event and they give you a free T-shirt, you take it even if you don't really want it, right? Because it's free, so you might as well. Women don't want to feel like they're the free T-shirt.

 

3) Women who make the first move are often judged negatively for it. They're labeled desperate, pathetic, easy, etc. Society is not kind to women who chase men.

 

So have I covered everything? Women don't make the first move because they don't want men who are lazy or timid, it would make them feel unwanted and undesirable, and they would be judged and ridiculed for it. They have to deal with all that on top of the fear of rejection.

 

That is why I rarely approach women. I have zero confidence in myself that I could go up to a random woman I've never seen before, and talk to her a few minutes then get her number. If I did try that, it would be plainly obvious to anybody that I'm lacking confidence. Though I do have a secret to making sure I don't look confident doing something. By not doing it.

 

Not doing it is what gets you into trouble. A woman can usually tell if a guy has a crush on her, so if you keep staring at her longingly and never make a move, she'll know your secret.

[AD1980]

I already gave examples. When a guy stands in the corner, sneaking glances at a pretty girl that he wants to talk to, but never actually does...that tells the girl that he has no confidence.

 

 

 

No, unless you make a move, you'll never get a girlfriend. You don't have to be a knight in shining armor, you just have to get up the nerve to approach a woman and initiate contact.

 

 

 

That's how I define it too.

 

 

 

Yes, it's understandable to be a little hesitant and worry about rejection. But it's not understandable to be so paralyzed by the fear of rejection that you can't even bring yourself to talk to a girl. Feel the fear, but do it anyway. That's what confident people do. It's not that confident people never worry about rejection; they do, but that doesn't stop them from trying. They know there's a risk of rejection, but they're willing to try anyway. They don't let their fears hold them back.

 

 

 

The problem with that is, you want women to take the risk so you don't have to. Women worry about rejection too, you know. Waiting for a woman to make the first move is a good way of communicating to her that you're timid and insecure. And why would she want to date someone who's timid and insecure? That's not attractive.

 

 

 

You want reasons? Oh, I'll give you reasons.

 

1) Society has different expectations of men and women. Given that, you have to admit there are advantages to playing the game according to your prescribed gender role. Society in general approves of it, and the person you're lusting after respects you for it. So why would women go against the grain and put themselves in the role of pursuer? They have nothing to gain. Sure, it would make your life easier, but that's not incentive for the woman. Remember, she doesn't know you. All she knows is that you're not approaching, which means you're either lazy, insecure, or not interested (in her mind). None of those things make her want to approach you.

 

You're basically asking women to become the man which, by default, would make you the woman. And you wonder why women don't want to do that? The straight ones want to date men who are proud to be men. Not men who wish they could be women for a little while. That's not an attractive quality.

 

2) It's not a woman's job to overcome your shyness for you. Women don't approach men because they don't want to. There's nothing in it for them. Do you know how women feel when they approach a guy? Unwanted. Even if the guy is receptive to the approach, the woman still thinks "He didn't really want me. I had to approach him. Of course he's not gonna turn that down, he's a guy, he'll take whatever he can get. If he really wanted me, he would have approached me." And before you ask, no, women do not enjoy that feeling.

 

When you make the effort to approach her, it shows a high level of interest, which reassures her. But if she has to approach you, she walks away thinking "He only asked me out because I threw myself at him. He doesn't really like me." You might feel successful, but she sure as hell doesn't. There is no outcome that would make a woman feel good about approaching a guy. Whether he asks her out or not, she's still left with the crappy feeling of "How come he wasn't interested enough to approach me?"

 

Think of it this way: When you go to an event and they give you a free T-shirt, you take it even if you don't really want it, right? Because it's free, so you might as well. Women don't want to feel like they're the free T-shirt.

 

3) Women who make the first move are often judged negatively for it. They're labeled desperate, pathetic, easy, etc. Society is not kind to women who chase men.

 

So have I covered everything? Women don't make the first move because they don't want men who are lazy or timid, it would make them feel unwanted and undesirable, and they would be judged and ridiculed for it. They have to deal with all that on top of the fear of rejection.

 

 

 

Not doing it is what gets you into trouble. A woman can usually tell if a guy has a crush on her, so if you keep staring at her longingly and never make a move, she'll know your secret.

 

Stop living by archaic society rules..

 

Men also have pitfalls havign to approach because if a guy makes the first move women might think he's just after sex, therefore labelling him as a pervert. They might also think he was obnoxious to approach her and even delusional, thinking he had a chance. He might also risk being in a fight if it turns out the woman is already in a relationship and she was just smiling to be nice.

[Titania22]

Do any of you women like unconfident and insecure guys?

 

 

 

I wouldn't say I am hot for unconfident and insecure guys, but I do love guys with weaknesses. i.e. I like guys when they are scared, tired, sad. It brings out my strong desire to nurture and protect.

[Cypress25]

Stop living by archaic society rules..

 

OK, ignore the part about society judging women if you think it doesn't apply. You're still left with the fact that waiting for a woman to approach you makes you undesirable, and the fact that women feel unwanted if they have to make the first move.

 

Men also have pitfalls havign to approach because if a guy makes the first move women might think he's just after sex, therefore labelling him as a pervert.

 

Women won't think that just because a guy makes the first move. You'd only be labeled a pervert if you stared at her boobs the whole time you talked to her or if you whipped it out and started masturbating right in front of her. But simply approaching her and starting a conversation? That doesn't make you a pervert.

 

They might also think he was obnoxious to approach her and even delusional, thinking he had a chance.

 

That's a simple rejection. If she's not interested in you, who cares what she thinks of you? Walk away, you never have to see her again.

 

He might also risk being in a fight if it turns out the woman is already in a relationship and she was just smiling to be nice.

 

LOL, that wouldn't cause a fight. Guys don't just start throwing punches when they see another guy hitting on their girlfriend. The boyfriend would just walk over and put his arm around her, thereby claiming her.

 

By not approaching women, you're signaling disinterest. If you don't make a move, women think you're not interested. Why would they approach a guy who's not interested? Because maybe he is interested and is just too terrified to make the first move? Well, being afraid of women doesn't exactly make women want to take you by the hand and lead the way.

[Anela]

Not at the moment. I won't expand on that, because it would involve a lot of very colourful language.