Guys become attractive after I date, I do not develop feelings unless I start dating

May 2, 2012

This is taken from one of Leigh_87's posts.

I do not develop feelings unless I start dating and getting that way with him.

To me, guys become attractive after I date them and get to know them.

Do other women feel the same way? If so, what makes you want to date a guy if you don't think he's attractive or have any feelings for him?

Are there things a guy can do to make you go from neutral to him, to wanting to do more?

May 2, 2012

I was not like Leigh. I had to feel the initial attraction to even go on one date.

The initial attraction has little to do with looks, though I ALWAYS think that a guy I feel that "spark" with is great to look at, even if not conventionally handsome, tall, etc.

After my divorce, I questioned my "people picker" and decided to do things differently; I dated guys who were nice enough looking, and good people with whom I got along. But it never went anywhere at all, and ended up leaving the guys with bad feelings, since they actually did think that the dating was going somewhere. So I gave up on that well meant experiment.

May 2, 2012

I was not like Leigh. I had to feel the initial attraction to even go on one date.

The initial attraction has little to do with looks, though I ALWAYS think that a guy I feel that "spark" with is great to look at, even if not conventionally handsome, tall, etc.

So there was something about his look that you just liked?

After my divorce, I questioned my "people picker" and decided to do things differently; I dated guys who were nice enough looking, and good people with whom I got along. But it never went anywhere at all, and ended up leaving the guys with bad feelings, since they actually did think that the dating was going somewhere. So I gave up on that well meant experiment.

Hmm. Sucks that it didn't work out.

May 2, 2012

Do other women feel the same way? If so, what makes you want to date a guy if you don't think he's attractive or have any feelings for him?

I never had to have "feelings" for a guy to go out with him. In fact, I often tried to proactively ask out a guy BEFORE getting feelings for him so I could make sure not to develop feelings for someone I've essentially made up (a version of him that's only in my head, etc).

I definitely had to have both interest and attraction to go on a date with a man or ask him out. Interest = the desire to spend time with him, thinking he's fun/funny, etc. Attraction = feeling some kind of spark, finding him attractive (conventional attractiveness doesn't really matter). Additionally, by the time I was in my mid-20s, I wouldn't go on a date with someone with whom I saw any major red flags or incompatibilities. That factored out a lot of men who were both interesting & attractive, but obviously wrong for me, even at first glance. That's how I improved my people-picker: By picking LESS men, rather than MORE.

Are there things a guy can do to make you go from neutral to him, to wanting to do more?

I'm sure they are as my feelings for a guy have changed, but they have to happen organically, I think. I can't think of a guy who tried to win me over and did -- that generally makes a gal feel annoyance or pity if she doesn't like the guy, and neither of those inspire romance. The best thing you can do if someone doesn't dig you back is back off entirely and shrug it off with grace.

May 2, 2012

i dont know about a going out but.

ive said this before on ls, i can never find a man attractive by looking at him. i have to speak to him first. this why i dont get why guys hate being friend-zoned, this is how all my crushes started, was just talking to them and getting to them without any dating, or romantic-pressure.

May 2, 2012

I've gone from neutral to 'feelings' after I've gotten to know someone. I couldn't give you the exact formula, but I'd see something within him that resonates with me.

That's not to say that surface does not matter at all. I still have to feel attracted to his appearance, but what's going on inside can really go a long way towards increasing his attractiveness level in my eyes.

May 2, 2012

i dont know about a going out but.

ive said this before on ls, i can never find a man attractive by looking at him. i have to speak to him first. this why i dont get why guys hate being friend-zoned, this is how all my crushes started, was just talking to them and getting to them without any dating, or romantic-pressure.

I think guys have no problem with having female friends, but friendzone is a different situation because at some point an attempt to get to know them was made in addition to making it known about their attraction they get the "i like you as a friend" or "lets just be friends". This is what most men hate when they are actually letting them know how they feel and instead of saying "I'm not into you" they say "let's just be friends". Its like going to a job interview and they say you have most of the qualifications we are looking for but we won't hire you but we will keep in contact with you and tell you about the people we hired.

May 2, 2012

Are there things a guy can do to make you go from neutral to him, to wanting to do more?

You should not be asking this question to women.

They'll just say they don't know why, the 'spark' just went off.

You should be asking men like Joystick D how he was able to pull the switch on the emotional attraction trigger.

May 2, 2012

I think guys have no problem with having female friends, but friendzone is a different situation because at some point an attempt to get to know them was made in addition to making it known about their attraction they get the "i like you as a friend" or "lets just be friends". This is what most men hate when they are actually letting them know how they feel and instead of saying "I'm not into you" they say "let's just be friends". Its like going to a job interview and they say you have most of the qualifications we are looking for but we won't hire you but we will keep in contact with you and tell you about the people we hired.

I don't actually even think men have a hard time being friends with a woman they think they may ask out but haven't decided to ask out and later becoming real friends with her.

Most people don't get mired in the FZ situation --- that seems to be only people who are young, inexperienced, or struggle with the notion that friendship, while a part of any good relationship, is not a good enough REASON to date anyone. In fact, you can easily date someone you'd never be friends with, BUT you probably won't make a lasting R out of that. People also date for reasons other than relationships!

Many people who meet as 'friends' at first (and are not really friends yet or even people who know each other well yet) might feel a spark later that they didn't feel when they met. What you shouldn't do is nurture that spark in secret, but rather put it out there, see how the other person feels, and move from there OR kill the spark yourself and decide not to be interested in the person early enough that you can choose, depending on what circumstance suits you. But I've met many men socially who didn't ask me out ASAP who I later went out with. I've also met many men socially who asked me out later that I said no to. There is no "Right time" to ask a girl out that improves success, IMO. Some girls decide right away if you're dating material, others take longer, others still have no sense of 'time' involved in it -- it just happens when it happens, and they feel what they feel.

Fixating on any one person who is not currently dating you is a bad idea. The FZ is a specific type of crush, but all crushes are bad. Just don't crush on anyone. Take action or kill your crush (the feelings, not the person) and either way, move on. Fixating on a crush is just a way of staying perpetually stuck in one place, avoiding growth (and rejection and reality), and being self-indulgent. No good comes from it, and it's not a good idea to feed a crush. Generally people learn that with age and experience.

May 2, 2012

This is taken from one of Leigh_87's posts.

Do other women feel the same way? If so, what makes you want to date a guy if you don't think he's attractive or have any feelings for him?

Are there things a guy can do to make you go from neutral to him, to wanting to do more?

The men I am initially attracted to I often do not like when I get to know them as people. If I do not like them, they become unattractive. And I often find myself attracted to men I get to know as friends and find myself wanting more. If I like their personality I find myself attracted to them.

Example, the man I am currently dating I met back in November thru an activity group. I was not at all attracted to him physically AT ALL nor did I join the group to find a date. Him and I became fast friends. We saw each other 2 times a month in our activity group and got to be quite close and comfortable with each other. Our personalities "clicked" and we have a lot of the same values/goals. Spending time with him was always easy and fun.

By January became attracted to him. Not to say I started to think he was "hot" where I didn't before. That is not true. BUT I started to miss him between our meet ups and would think about how nice it would be to kiss him or touch him etc...thinking about him would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside if you know what I mean

We had been discussing that our group didn't meet up as frequently as we liked so we planned to meet up and go together. This was at the end of February. There was flirting from both parties. Lots of eye contact, sitting close to each other, arm/leg brushing etc. but nothing happened. However after that 'date' we began texting or calling each other every day. Equal initiaion from both parties, and either very little or NO game playing at least from my POV.

Two weeks after our 'date' (early March) we saw each other again at one of our groups planned activities. He asked if I would like to get a drink after, of course I said "yes!" Long story short I ended up going him that night... I'd known the dude 5 months by this point. I felt totally comfortbale and safe with him in every way and we had some pretty awesome sex.

That was two months ago and we've not had any 'relationship' type discussion at all. We live a few hours apart so sadly we can't see each other as often as we'd like but we still talk every day and we see each other once a week. Either alone or with the group (we've not outed ourselves)

Im not dating anyone else, and I don't think he is either. he didn't mention anyone in all this time. But...Im secure. We talk every day, and see each other once a week (and the sex is amazing) Im just gonna see where it goes.

so there you go.

if you're curious....Im 38 he's 52 so maybe we're both just 'over' dating hence the lack of drama!

May 2, 2012

Fixating on any one person who is not currently dating you is a bad idea. The FZ is a specific type of crush, but all crushes are bad. Just don't crush on anyone. Take action or kill your crush (the feelings, not the person) and either way, move on. Fixating on a crush is just a way of staying perpetually stuck in one place, avoiding growth (and rejection and reality), and being self-indulgent. No good comes from it, and it's not a good idea to feed a crush. Generally people learn that with age and experience.

Very good post and very surprised to hear it from a woman...

May 2, 2012

i dont know about a going out but.

ive said this before on ls, i can never find a man attractive by looking at him. i have to speak to him first. this why i dont get why guys hate being friend-zoned, this is how all my crushes started, was just talking to them and getting to them without any dating, or romantic-pressure.

Ditto.

Hot guys are eye candy, but that really isn't the same thing as been romantically interested in them. Even silly celeb crushes come after watching a particular role they played in a movie and how they act/talk in them (Robert Downey Jr in Sherlock Holmes and Ironman, OMG ). I've never been literally attracted to a guy without talking to him or listening to him talk.

You should not be asking this question to women.

They'll just say they don't know why, the 'spark' just went off.

I know exactly why I was attracted to the men that I was attracted to.

You should be asking men like Joystick D how he was able to pull the switch on the emotional attraction trigger.

Emotional attraction isn't a trigger you pull at will. Because the other person is a sentient being with intelligence of their own, not a math equation that you can solve with the correct calculations or a dish that you cook with a great recipe. Human beings are completely non-deterministic and there will always, always be a factor out of your control - that factor is called 'free will'. Even if you somehow 'succeed', there really isn't much hope for that relationship, because it started on a farce. You can't ever make someone like you sustainably, no matter how much some guys wish that to be possible.

It IS, however, entirely possible and commendable to work on being a better person and improving attributes that could attract women to you, instead of searching for the mythical trigger.

May 2, 2012

Hot guys are eye candy, but that really isn't the same thing as been romantically interested in them. Even silly celeb crushes come after watching a particular role they played in a movie and how they act/talk in them (Robert Downey Jr in Sherlock Holmes and Ironman, OMG ). I've never been literally attracted to a guy without talking to him or listening to him talk.

Agree. I have very few celeb crushes and the ones I do are based mostly on what they write and say, not how hot they are (they may be hot, but most celebs are).

I know exactly why I was attracted to the men that I was attracted to.

Agree. I don't think there's any cut-and-dried component that everyone could apply. But, generally, the 'spark' comes from forming a connection with the person, based on whatever did it for me at the time. I will say my attraction triggers have changed dramatically over time, personally.

It IS, however, entirely possible and commendable to work on being a better person and improving attributes that could attract women to you, instead of searching for the mythical trigger.

Way more practical than trying to hit a trigger.

May 2, 2012

Emotional attraction isn't a trigger you pull at will. Because the other person is a sentient being with intelligence of their own, not a math equation that you can solve with the correct calculations or a dish that you cook with a great recipe. Human beings are completely non-deterministic and there will always, always be a factor out of your control - that factor is called 'free will'. Even if you somehow 'succeed', there really isn't much hope for that relationship, because it started on a farce. You can't ever make someone like you sustainably, no matter how much some guys wish that to be possible.

It IS, however, entirely possible and commendable to work on being a better person and improving attributes that could attract women to you, instead of searching for the mythical trigger.

Maybe not for you, or anybody that I would consider dating seriously at this point in my life, but the emotional trigger does exist.

I have seen womens' reactions when a guy says or does something with machismo, aplomb, or rooster like confidence.

And you've been here long enough to read posts from hundreds of women who need the emotional spark and butterflies in order to date a man. That can be created artificially and I have no doubt in my mind about that.

May 2, 2012

Maybe not for you, or anybody that I would consider dating seriously at this point in my life, but the emotional trigger does exist.

I have seen womens' reactions when a guy says or does something with machismo, aplomb, or rooster like confidence.

And you've been here long enough to read posts from hundreds of women who need the emotional spark and butterflies in order to date a man. That can be created artificially and I have no doubt in my mind about that.

It can perhaps be capitalized on, but I seriously doubt artificial confidence, aplomb, or machismo would do the trick. The men who use those well just HAVE them or have thoroughly cultivated them, not pulled them out as a trigger. Nor do those strategies really work long-term or, as you say, on the folks many people would consider dating seriously.

I would suggest that refining your already-existing attractive traits and going with a style that is more organic to you (but that is refined based on experience and failure, etc) is more likely to cause more overall attraction than trying to slide on some other guy's style. That's what I've seen work more often. I've seen so many guys and gals try to emulate someone else and fail because it wasn't who they are or what they want.

May 2, 2012

Agree. I have very few celeb crushes and the ones I do are based mostly on what they write and say, not how hot they are (they may be hot, but most celebs are).

Way more practical than trying to hit a trigger.

This will risk revealing who I am, but a while ago I was drinking with some people and talking about celebrity crushes and I said Meryl Streep, and just about everybody looked at me like I was a total freak.

2nd P: SD is having trouble attracting a woman period. There is such a thing as an emotional trigger whether it works on you or what percentage of women or not. I could tell him to go do a pHd in Russian Literature and that might work just as well, but would take just a bit longer...

May 2, 2012

2nd P: SD is having trouble attracting a woman period. There is such a thing as an emotional trigger whether it works on you or what percentage of women or not. I could tell him to go do a pHd in Russian Literature and that might work just as well, but would take just a bit longer...

Right, there are things he could work on to improve his overall attractiveness. The problem with attempting for triggers is many-fold.

For one, you have to be able to assess a person pretty quickly to try to spot any triggers he/she may have. Then, you have to have the skill to potentially pull that off. Most of the time you will fail, so you'll also have to face many, many, many, many rejections, sometimes VERY harsh ones, as people who see what you're trying to do will be pissed off. Think: Barney, on How I Met Your Mother. Sure, he gets laid, but he gets rejected something like 98% of the time, according to Marshall's graphing (this was awhile back - now he's in a LTR with a stripper, but whatev).

For another, many people can't be triggered at all. Rinse and repeat on the rejection point.

For a third, even if you succeed, you'll rarely get much out of it unless you can close the deal immediately --- which goes against SD's basic style. Also rinse and repeat the rejection point since attempting to close the deal immediately will often lead to rejection.

So, basically, it's not really a viable strategy, especially for someone who has trouble attracting people in general. It's a cheap, easy, probably sure to fail strategy.

May 2, 2012

Right, there are things he could work on to improve his overall attractiveness. The problem with attempting for triggers is many-fold.

In terms of self improvement, I like to use this example.

A good many women have complimented me on my guitar playing which I have played for two decades. I have asked or made a move on some of them (some whom I knew very well). Do you know how many have rejected me?

ALL of them.

Do you know how many women have said I was awesome and funny and still rejected me? Lots.

Do you know what is the most times I've spent significantly with a woman who has eventually become my girlfriend before we started making out? Three.

MOST women need the physical or emotional attraction. So, if you can't generate the physical, you need to generate the emotional. And it's more than just a pickup line or a PUA strategy. It's an attitude where you can make a woman attracted to you where she doesn't know much about you at all. Once she's attracted, then you can use all of your 'good stuff' to keep her and realize she made a good choice.

I can only go by my own experiences... but I believe mine is much closer to SD's than most here.

Edited May 2, 2012 by jobaba

May 2, 2012

I'm in class right now, but I am reading everything here.

May 2, 2012

So there was something about his look that you just liked?

I ALWAYS like the looks of a guy I like "that way." But they don't necessarily have to be good looking.

My husband - I love the sound of his voice, and I did the first time I heard it. He has a mischievous look in his eyes, amazing smile lines and crows feet from smiling and laughing a great deal in his life, and very sweet looking lips.

I have a thing for strong and capable looking hands and forearms on a man, and he has those.

He also has soft skin and he smells really good.

He is 5'8" tall and I don't think I have ever even dated a guy seriously who was under 6 feet. Not a conscious preference, but evidently it was there.

Hmm. Sucks that it didn't work out.

Not at all, because I actually did find a man who I "sparked" with and who also was good for me.

Being without the spark would have been what you people here on loveshack call "settling."

My point in sharing all of this with you on your thread is to try to impress upon you that IT TAKES ALL KINDS. Leigh is disposed and open completely to giving guys a chance. I guess that doesn't work for me. A woman like me would not be doing a person a favor (and was not, in real life) by "giving them a chance" when I just knew that the chemistry was missing, but a woman like Leigh would be true to herself when doing that.

If somebody doesn't want to give YOU a chance, don't try to push it. It will be even worse later.

When someone does, go for it.

May 2, 2012

Do other women feel the same way?

Not me. I'm always attracted to the guy before I start dating him. Otherwise I wouldn't start dating him in the first place.

May 2, 2012

Am I attracted to people right off the bat? Yes, if they are handsome and hot.

But would I date them? Nope.

Would I have sex with them? Again, nope.

I only develop feelings for guys who I get to know after a while and see them demonstrate kindness, caring, intelligence, and humor.

Physical attraction != feelings.

May 3, 2012

.........Lolz

What I meant, was I did not think " wow he is hot" and I was totally indifferent to his physical appearance.

However, there was something about him that attracted me to see him again - about his personality. I enjoyed talking to him and it made me want to see him again.

Before I knew his personality, before I thought he was physically attractive, the thing I first liked was when he called me babe and he called me beautiful and adorable the 3rd or so date, and the fact he was so sweet made me like " awww" and the fact he hugged me a lot.

I could not pinpoint what it was about him, but it WAS NOT his looks.....

In any case, I went from not thinking he was physically attractive, to now thinking he is the hottest guy to me. That is what love and infatuation IS , to me - the guy becomes WAY better looking and more attractive to you and even becomes your " type".

My b/f is my type now! I am crazy for fair guys with blue eyes cuddly build..... basically HIM. He is my type.

..... So, I did date him without knowing or understanding the attraction! There was no physical inrpiration to keep seeing him, but there was obviously something there that drew me in, slowly.

Um, I will just add - he is actually good looking - but I was sort of SHALLOW when we met, I was super thin and had a fling with a model body buildar guy who dated models, before I dated my current b/f.

So, I thought about hotness in terms of muscles and stero type hotness....

My b.f did not fit that mould at first, but I can now see how he is very attractive physically.

May 3, 2012

To clarify what I said:

- I do not ever think a guy is really attractive, until I date him and see what he is about.

- guys who are physically hot, I will not feel attracted to, until I get feelings for them, and they are mutual; although I CAN see, objectively, if they are good looking. I am just not " attracted" to them, without mutual feelings and a relationship.

- guys can be attractive, but I am not " attracted to them" until feelings come about.

- I can think a guy looks hot, but not be attracted to him; and I can NOT think a guy is hot, date him, and become attracted.

I can go from not thinking they are physically attractive, to thinkijg they look hot and really, REALLLLLLY sexy and attractive to me; where as I NEVER think of them as sexy, in a sexy way, until we have been intimate and I have feelings.

LOoks are just looks to begin with; they only truly develope once the relationship progresses.

There has to be some sort of spark or thing one cannot explain; not something u can pinpoint, for me to continue seeng the guy. I have to feel HAPPY and excited about seeing them next.

The strange thing about my b/f, is that I could not actually pinpoint WHAT it was about him that I liked. SOUNDS MEAN but, you know, I could not list things like: looks, personality, hobbies interests, intelligence....

...I really just enjoyed seeing him, and looked forward to seeing him again. A spark. Nothing I can explain.

Luckily, he turned out to have wonderful qualities, but at first, there was no physical or specific attraction so to speak; just a general feeling i was attracted and wanted to see him.

I guess the lesson is: I was shallow, but gave a guy I did not think was super attractive a chance, or even attractive for that matter.

I do not think ' wow, gee, what a great girl I am, i deserve SO much credit for giving a guy I did not find super hot a chance" LOL......

No - I do not deserve credit for it. I am simply HAPPY I opened myself up, and stopped being so shallow.

I am the one who won - for giving a guy a chance that were not initially good looking to me.

Now, when I a single again one day, which statistics dictate I WILL in fact be, I will know that no matter how good I am looking ( nose job please) and fit and thin I am, I will ALWAYS give a guy a chance, as long as I get a good feeling from him, REGARDLESS if I think he is hot or not.

My post was more about giving a guy a chance even if you to not think he is hot or good looking; of course, if he repulses u, u should opt for friendship; u MAY fall for a guy who is unnatractive to u, but it may not happen, so why go on a date and waste their time?

U at least cannot be repulsed or anything...

May 3, 2012

Am I attracted to people right off the bat? Yes, if they are handsome and hot.

But would I date them? Nope.

Would I have sex with them? Again, nope.

I only develop feelings for guys who I get to know after a while and see them demonstrate kindness, caring, intelligence, and humor.

Physical attraction != feelings.

THIS THIS THIS.

BUt I WOULD date a guy, so I COULD get to know them....u know, to see if I get feelings?

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Guys become attractive after I date, I do not develop feelings unless I start dating

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