Another Marriage in Trouble

[DesperateDad]

Hi everyone. It's been a long time, but I used to be a regular member here on this board when I was going through the break up of my first marriage. Now, I find myself in what may be the end of my second marriage and I'm feeling just devastated and confused.

 

I met this girl (10 years younger than me) while teaching a class at a community college nearly a year after my ex and I had broken up. Up until that point, I had dated a bit and was feeling better after some really rough times.

 

When I met this gorgeous young girl, I couldn't get enough of her. There was definitely a mutual spark and I was sorry to see her go after the class was over. About a month or so after the class ended, though, she called me up and asked me out on a date.

 

We dated a few times and things moved extremely fast. She moved in after just a few weeks. She had been on disability from work due to problems with epilepsy and what we later found out to be endometriosis. She was sick quite a bit and also raising a young son, less than 2 when I met her, and dealing with a lot of trouble with the boy's father, an emotionally unstable attorney, of all things. She also made up a bunch of stories (lies) about her sexual exploits in order to make herself seem more interesting to me. I found this out over time as she admitted that much of it had never happened.

 

We married after less than a year. I knew she needed medical insurance and I loved her so much that I wanted to keep her and take care of her.

 

To make a long story shorter, we had great chemistry from the start, but lots of friction, maybe due to our age differences, kids (I have 5 from my first marriage), and that we have a few things in common, but not as much as I would have liked. Through it all, though, we've loved each other deeply. She always wanted a big family and felt that I was perfect for her and I had always wanted a sexy, fun, younger woman who loved kids and loved me unconditionally.

 

The more serious problems started with her financial problems and trouble keeping a job. She was constantly barraged with bills and lawsuits for debts and forgetting about paying things and bouncing checks, etc. It was mind boggling. She also had a habit of lashing out and dealing with things in a really immature way. To add to this, her son was very emotional and would cry constantly, often waking us up several times per night crying for no reason.

 

Her health got better and her finances seemed to improve a bit. She started doing better at getting and holding jobs. I worked with her a lot to help her improve her job skills and it paid off. But, it seemed that every day still brought some new drama into our life. She would oversleep regularly and have to rush to get ready for work, all the while yelling at me as I tried to help her or offer suggestions. Or, she was forgetful, losing things constantly, and forgetting things we'd talked about. She was unreliable, too, forgetting to do things that I asked her to do, underestimating the time it took to do things and being really impulsive. Sometimes it was really hard to get a hold of her as she would forget her phone or turn it off and I wouldn't know where she was. I was always afraid she'd had a seizure somewhere and needed help. It was nerve-wracking.

 

My response to all of this was to get cold and distant and angry and resentful. I loved her intensely and always did, but couldn't deal with it. I ended up asking her to move out so I could calm my fractured nerves. I just needed a break from the constant drama. I asked her to move out one morning when she called me while I was at work and really stressed out. I felt horrible about it and then tried to take it back later that day, but she had already made plans to move out and followed through on them over the next few weeks.

 

I was so depressed. I've mentioned in earlier threads about my first marriage that I have issues with depression that I've never faced. I've always tried to read books and psych myself out. My family doctor had prescribed Paxil for me and I took that on and off for years, but it just made my emotional state so much worse.

 

So, my wife moved out in April of 2011. She moved just a block away from me and after a week or two of little contact other than her asking me for help, financially and otherwise, we started dating and hanging out regularly. All the while we went through a number of ups and downs and talked about what it would take to get back together. She insisted that I go to a therapist to deal with my depression. I agreed, but due to financial problems, I kept putting it off and ultimately never did seek help.

 

In October of 2011, I lost my job. I hit bottom at this point and was so depressed I had no idea what to do. It was a total shock. I felt completely vulnerable. It was at this point that I asked my wife to move back in. She was looking at a large pay cut at work and I was looking at an uncertain financial future as well. We both loved each other and wanted to be with each other, so it felt right. After a month or so, we moved her back into my place and all seemed great. I was offered a better job and things were really looking up.

 

The problems weren't gone, though. Some of the money problems returned and her son's emotional problems started up again. I reacted again by getting cold and distant and withdrawing and being overly critical. I was downright mean to them.

 

I did some stupid things, too. I was on a business trip and promised to call her after work that day and didn't. I texted her and said I would call her, but ended up drinking in my room with a bunch of coworkers (both sexes). When she called, I answered and made some stupid jokes in front of my coworkers, totally disrespecting her and insulting her. Obviously, she was devastated and really hurt and immediately began talking about divorce.

 

When I got home the next day, I was very apologetic. I knew I had been stupid, but I hadn't cheated on her. I never had. I was always completely true to her and I never suspected her of cheating either. She told me she thought we should go to marriage counseling and I just didn't respond.

 

After that, I yelled at her son for some stupid reason and called him a dummy. This was wrong of me. I was a total jerk for taking my stresses out on him. But, she was livid and the next day told me she was moving out.

 

This time, I reacted to this angrily. I didn't realize how bad things had started to get again. But, this time, I was the one getting bad. She had really worked hard to improve herself and had gotten much of her anger issues under control. But, I was slowly sinking into a withdrawal and was almost completely emotionally unavailable.

 

I told her moving out was a big mistake. I never asked her to stay this time. For weeks I was in shock and couldn't connect with my emotions in any way. I couldn't feel anything. And then, after she'd been gone a week, it hit me like a ton of bricks that she was gone. I missed her intensely and felt so terribly guilty that I'd been such a jerk and I'd been so angry.

 

Last night, I spoke with her on the phone for only the second real time since she moved out two weeks ago. She says it's over and that she's really angry and has given up on us. She's not with anyone else, but she says she will consider dating if someone asks her out. She took her ring off right away and wanted no contact, because I said that's what I would want if she left.

 

Now, I'm completely torn to bits. Maybe this is for the best. Maybe we moved too fast and this was my rebound relationship. I never should have accepted her earlier erratic behavior and lies.

 

But, I love her still. I miss her. I hate being alone and even though our relationship had so many troubles, I prefer that to what I'm going through now, again.

 

I've finally made an appointment to see a psychiatrist next week and I've offered to go to marriage counseling, if she will go. At this point, she says she's not interested.

 

Part of me thinks that I should just let her go, become friends eventually. The other part of me feels so terribly guilty, that I should have gone to therapy and should have gone to marriage counseling when she asked. I just want to be happy and live a normal life. I know I need help to do that.

 

I found so much help and support from all of you on this board a few years ago and I would welcome any comments or advice.

[DesperateDad]

I haven't received any replies yet, so I thought I would add more specific questions. I really need help. I'm dying inside right now because I miss my wife and stepson and feel terrible about the whole situation.

 

Does this marriage seem like it can be saved? There's been no infidelity and no physical abuse, though I've been verbally abusive.

 

What can I do to get my wife to agree to go to marriage counseling with me? She currently is saying not now as she doesn't see the point. I've asked her to consider going in a few weeks or so, when she sees that I'm going to my therapy sessions and dealing with my depression.

 

I know she is hurt and angry and this will take time to go away. Is there anything else I should be doing in the meantime to move toward fixing my marriage?

[findingnemo]

I think you should continue with IC to resolve your own issues. When she starts hearing a difference when you talk, she will probably come around to going to MC. MC is important for both of you because she too has some serious issues which affect the M.

 

I don't think your M is over yet. She probably needs time to cool off. Keep calling her to check on her but don't pressure her into doing anything. Tell her about yourself and what you've learned as you to IC.

 

I hope that things work out for both of you.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks so much, findingnemo. I needed to hear that. I'm also planning on going back to church this weekend, which is something my wife expressed some interest in a while back. I want to start building up structures in my/our life that will encourage me to be upbeat and also encourage the family community.

 

Do you think it would be a mistake to begin marriage counseling without her?

Thanks again!

[DesperateDad]

I have another question. I know I've read that you should not contact any friends or family of the spouse, but I want to contact my wife's father just to tell him that I've not given up on our marriage. I know he and her mother just want us to get back together and stay together. He is my wife's best friend and confidant and it might make a great deal of difference if he's aware that I'm not giving up and I'm getting into treatment for my depression. Please let me know your thoughts.

[DesperateDad]

OK. I know I shouldn't be getting this desperate, but I did call her dad and talked to him for a while this morning. He had thought it was more of a mutual breakup, but I told him that I hadn't wanted her to move out, but was too angry and proud and hurt to say it at the time.

 

He was very supportive and said he hopes we work it out and then me getting therapy for my depression will be a very big factor.

 

I'm hopeful about saving this marriage and finally being happy, but I'm really scared. I'm trying not to panic. Any more support or advice you can offer is much appreciated!

[standtall]

DD, sorry to hear about your grief. Here is my take. Unfortunately, IMHO it sounds as if you used you as some sort of extended daddy figure. Also, what feelings she did have for you were shattered by overhearing you mock her...that is verbal abuse and to be honest, not always forgivable. Your best hope is to get into some IC for you, and some MC for both, and then just maybe she will come back. Don't count on it though.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks, standtall. I'm trying to stay hopeful even though I realize there is a chance she won't come back to me. I know not everything about our relationship was ideal and that she has some issues, too, but I love her with all my heart and I know I should have been better to her.

 

I feel like she will agree to counseling and get back together with me at some point, but the not knowing is killing me. I have a lot of family and friends supporting me now and even her dad says to call him anytime, so that's helping to keep me sane.

[DesperateDad]

Question: Should I be going NC right now?

 

My wife has been fairly cold toward me in my last contacts, but still making small talk. She lingered over here for a while picking some things up on Wednesday and we chatted for a bit about work, etc. No R talk, but I hugged her several times and she wasn't very receptive.

 

I know this was probably too much, but I've been having a mental breakdown this week and not sleeping, not eating, sick, etc. When I spoke with my wife on the phone on Tuesday night and I was honestly nearly suicidal. I was falling apart and she told me to man up for my kids.

 

She's generally very needy and always contacts me multiple times per day to chat about things, but I'm not sure what's going on here this time. She was somewhat receptive to getting together this weekend for a little bit, but I haven't heard from her yet.

 

I was always the cold one last time we were separated and she initiated contact most times.

 

So, should I be doing the same thing and not contacting first or should I try to keep up a dialog about small talk or something to let her know I'm still going on with my life?

[standtall]

Question: Should I be going NC right now?

 

Yes, absolutely...the full monty 180.

 

Now this is going to sound harsh, but it needs to be said. This part, for lack of a better phrase, has really torpedo'ed you.

 

I know this was probably too much, but I've been having a mental breakdown this week and not sleeping, not eating, sick, etc. When I spoke with my wife on the phone on Tuesday night and I was honestly nearly suicidal. I was falling apart and she told me to man up for my kids.

 

That kind of sniveling does nothing put drive women away. If she had to point it out for you to man up, then she has lost most of her respect for you, and women do not love men then do not respect. That is also is what the 180 is all about...gaining your own self respect back with your behavior, and then that gives them the opportunity to respect you as well. This may be fixable, but it will take a lot of time and effort on your part. It takes years to earn respect, and then you can loose it in a minute.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks, standtall. I understand. The good thing, I suppose, is that that was completely out of character for me. I've always been the one who kept our family afloat through years of her health problems and money issues and whatever was happening. I've spent so many hours by her bedside when she was in the hospital.

 

I'm pulling myself together, exercising, going to a new church, going to see a psychiatrist, a lot of things that are making me feel a bit better. I'm at least feeling like I'm not falling apart anymore.

 

Now, she's contacted me twice since last week and I haven't initiated any contact at all. First an email reminding me about my kids' schedule on Mother's Day (which I don't need to be reminded about) and also to ask me to say Happy Mother's Day to "Mom," meaning, my mother.

 

Today, she texted me asking me if I'm ok because she had a weird dream last night. I don't know what to think. This thing goes both ways. I don't even know where she lives or what she's doing, so my trust level is almost non-existent at this point.

 

My kids are very upset that she and her son have left us. I feel like she abandoned us when she should have stayed to at least give it a try to work things out.

 

My ex (mother of my children) and I are completely on the same page and have agreed that she will have no contact with the children for now and not until or unless she agrees to go to marriage counseling. If she is rejecting me, she can't be a stepmother to my children. I think she wants to have her cake and eat it, too.

 

So, my response to her text today was just to say that I'm ok. Should I be asking outright if she's with someone else or if she has reconsidered marriage counseling? Or, should I just continue with no contact?

[knitwit]

I am going to blunt here. You are being a jerk. You pushed your wife away. You've verbally abused her emotionally fragile child. She asked you multiple times to get help and you didn't until pushed to the very end. She took off her wedding ring b/c it is what you told her to do (or at least said that you'd do it.)

 

I can see that you truly love her from your post- but what have you actually DONE to SHOW her this? From what I can see, you've shown her that you can't be trusted, you are not emotionally available, you are not reliable, you are quick to separate. None of these are loving activities.

 

The good news is that it does seem like your wife has some love for you. My best advice is to go check out the marriage builders website (not the forums though). See if their descriptions of giver/taker, states of marriage, and the love bank rings true for you. Per their terminology, you need to figure out your wife's emotional needs and start to meet them, hence filling her love bank and making her fall back in love with you. You made some huge withdrawals over a long period of time; there is a limited amount of time before she just walks, she sounds awfully close now.

 

BTW I am not trying to suggest that she has done no wrong. She has her own issues, too. But, IMO, if you want to save your marriage you need to clean up your side of the street and show her over a prolonged period of time that you can change and that you are safe for her.

 

Best of luck to you!

[DesperateDad]

Thanks for the reply knitwit. I just found out tonight that she has been seeing a guy and had sex with him as soon as she moved out. Long, tearful conversation with her on the phone today where she tells me that she loves me and my kids and has pictures of them all over her apartment that she screwed this guy in.

 

I was definitely cold at times and acted like a jerk, but I took care of her though so much and I didn't deserve this.

[knitwit]

DD, I am so sorry to hear this. You are 100% right- you do not deserve that. You own part of the troubles in your marriage; she owns making that horrible decision to step outside the marriage.

 

I hope you were able to get some sleep and that you have people who can support you right now. LS is good support as well.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks, knitwit. I'm struggling through my feelings now. I've started seeing a psychiatrist to deal with my own issues. I'm trying to put her out of my mind so I can just move on. It's so hard because I still love her, as crazy as that may sound. It's funny, but she told me she loves me on the phone after admitting what she did.

 

I suspect that there's more to it than that, though. There usually is. She's been spending a lot of time out drinking with friends after work and when home she was always on facebook and IM instead of hanging with the family.

 

I feel totally betrayed.

 

I also spoke with my children about how they felt about her. It was really eye-opening. My oldest two admitted that she made them feel awful because of the way she treated them. My daughter cried and said she never wanted to come over to my place anymore because she was treated so unfairly and my wife wouldn't ever give her a chance to explain herself. They also all noticed that her son was always given top priority and always had new toys. They said he was always treated better than them and they hated that.

 

It broke my heart to hear this stuff. I can't believe I allowed this to happen. I can't possibly reconcile with this woman knowing how she made my children feel. And knowing what she did to me.

 

I'm really beating myself up over this. I think I rushed into a rebound relationship with a very attractive young woman who had a whole host of problems, physical, mental, emotional, but I was too starstruck to realize it. I was so lonely after my first divorce and just wanted to find someone to fall in love with.

 

I wanted to find love so badly that I just went along with the first thing that even looked like it. I ignored all the warning flags like the erratic behavior, constant lies, and emotional outbursts over the most trivial of things.

 

I think the fog is finally lifting for me. As much as I still feel love for this woman, she's bad for me and my children. I have to be strong and just move on.

[soserious1]

I think you are in danger here of rewriting your marital history & I caution you not to fall into that trap. It will temporarily ease your pain but it will blind you to issues that should be addressed with your therapist.

 

1. You dated a former student, yeah 20 is certainly legal but there's an imbalance of power there right from the start. Add in the 10 year age difference and you've got all the makings of a text book disaster.When she contacted you the first time, the healthy, responsible response would have been to say " thank you, I am flattered but I don't socialize with students/ former students."

 

 

2. Blended families take a lot of work and emotional maturity on all sides of the parental equation. At the one year mark after your own divorce your own kids were most likely still reeling, still trying to adjust to the new normal. What about their needs? This young woman came carrying a toddler, bags full of unpaid bills and baby Daddy drama. What in any of this suggested that she'd be a great step-mother to five kids?

 

3. You were by your own admission verbally abusive and downright cruel, not just to your student bride but to a preschool aged child.Your soon to be Ex might be a lot of things but she did one thing right here, she moved out the day after you called that child "dummy"

 

 

As far as her being with another man, hey you ordered her to remove her rings, ordered her to move out and told her the marriage was over. She complied with your wishes. Sorry but you've got no beef here as far as I can see.

 

My advice to you, focus hard on your therapy, devote yourself to healing fully from your 1st failed marriage, get your kids into family therapy with you, focus on helping them to heal fully from the emotional fallout from all of this. Make rebuilding your connections with them, being the best father you can be your number one priority.

 

Leave the dating scene alone, spend your time processing the lessons you've learned from your failed relationships. Trust me when I say that if you don't do this work now, you will have repeated train wreck relationships. You deserve better than that and so do your kids.

[DesperateDad]

Soserious1, thanks for your reply. Actually, she is now 31 and was 27 when we started dating. I understand about the rewriting of marital history and there is some truth in that. However, I do believe that I've initially blamed myself for everything. Yes, I was at times verbally abusive to them both, but most of the time I was very affectionate and kind. I took them into my home and shared my family with them. I showed a lot of signs of affection because I really am an affectionate, loving person.

 

Also, I never ordered her to remove her rings and I told her I didn't want her to move out and that I didn't want a divorce.

 

You're right, though. I did jump into this relationship way too quickly and I didn't deal with my unresolved issues from my first marriage nor my own long term depression and anxiety problems.

 

I'm going to focus on working on resolving all my issues and make myself a better person. I certainly do feel used, but this was my fault. I jumped into this and didn't use very good judgment in dating a former student and someone with so many of her own issues. It wasn't right for me and it certainly wasn't right for me children. I have a lot of regrets right now.

 

On top of this, I'm still reeling from the loss of this woman I really did love with all my heart, despite the tension and problems.

Edited May 13, 2012 by DesperateDad

[DesperateDad]

She's texted me twice today telling me how awful her Mother's Day was because I didn't have the kids call her. Truthfully, they never even asked. We all feel that she's abandoned us.

 

I haven't responded to her texts and I'm not sure that I will or what to even say.

 

I love her, but my psychiatrist thinks I never established proper boundaries with her. I got angry and cold because I took on too much in trying to please her and take care of her. He said this relationship was very unhealthy because of the lack of boundaries and that I let her take over my life.

 

I'm definitely working on myself and if there's a chance at moving to reconciliation, it's going to be a very long road.

 

I'm thinking now that if she just gives me any sign of wanting to talk about a future for us, I'll go to counseling with her. But, I'm not going to allow her to pretend to be a mother to my children when she's left us and is with another man.

 

My psych also said that I've blamed myself for everything, but that it's never all one person's fault.

 

I'm conflicted. I feel so bad for her, but I don't know if I should respond in any way. Any ideas?