jobaba Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Obviously people here who are saying they have no sympathy are assuming that these desperate girls are always going after "hot" players. That is not always the case. Girls can be just as desperate for someone of average looks who they know on a more intimate level, like as a friend, for example. I'm in this situation right now where I really have strong feelings for a friend who apparently doesn't have them for me, although has given me mixed messages. It is taking extreme will power NOT to do desperate things like call more or write, etc. It's funny because I was just thinking today that I should just say screw it and pursue him like a madwoman and seduce him etc lol and then I saw this thread. Good timing I guess. That's a totally different thing. OP made it pretty clear the woman and man in her story could be considered marginal acquaintances.
ThatDudeXO Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 This happens with both sexes. When an average looking person wants to woo an extremely good looking person by constantly bombarding them, this is what happens.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 So what? I don't feel sorry for the girl or whatever -- it's her own choice to act that way -- but I also don't feel sorry for every guy she turns down. Just as the Player Guy has a right to his own desires and agenda and to turn down or not commit to women, so does a girl have the right to turn down anyone she pleases for any reason. It's not like the woman came here complaining about players. SD said he doesn't "respect" women who are that desperate. I said I disagree with him about the respect part because I respect everyone unless they've personally done something to me. Unlike SD, I've never made this about gender. The average "person" has it way easier than I do. Always been that way as far as I'm concerned. It's not because I'm a guy, it's because I'm me, 49322. Why are you busting my rear end?
dasein Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Guy with options treats women interested in dating him the same exact way average women treat men interested in dating them. News at 11.
jobaba Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 This is true, but it really isn't just girls. Honestly, you have no idea how many guys drool around the 'hot girl' while ignoring other perfectly nice ones. Both genders are equally culpable in this - it's sad, but I don't feel sorry for either of them. If they're that desperate to get a hot guy/girl that they lose all self-worth and perspective in the process, well... It's true. My roommate in college was like that. He was so focused on getting the best looking Asian girls on campus. He knew like all of their names and where they hung out and everything. And he never got any of them. The guys I hung around with college regularly talked about the same hot girls. There were actually girls on campus that everybody knew because they were hot. You could run into an Asian guy who you had no social connection with and say, "Do you know XXXX?" And he'd be like "Yea, she's hot." I thought it was so silly. Those girls weren't even that hot IMO. I took my rejections from much lesser 'commodities'. In adult life though, I've seen it more from women. I think it's because a woman has a better chance of hooking up with a person much better looking than them. But it's only my perspective.
zengirl Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 SD said he doesn't "respect" women who are that desperate. I said I disagree with him about the respect part because I respect everyone unless they've personally done something to me. Unlike SD, I've never made this about gender. The average "person" has it way easier than I do. Always been that way as far as I'm concerned. It's not because I'm a guy, it's because I'm me, 49322. Why are you busting my rear end? It wasn't meant to be personally busting your rear. Just expanding to another level basically and saying, "So what? What does it matter if anyone else wants to date her?" I basically don't see why people say things like that. "So what if the person you want won't go out with you? This person who you have no interest in will" is just a silly place to go. Nothing about your general situation, 49, which I generally have empathy for. At any rate, I think the girl in the example is showing little self-respect. I don't really disrespect her for it, but I'd urge her to respect herself a bit more and not chase after something that is clearly not happening.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 It wasn't meant to be personally busting your rear. Just expanding to another level basically and saying, "So what? What does it matter if anyone else wants to date her?" I basically don't see why people say things like that. "So what if the person you want won't go out with you? This person who you have no interest in will" is just a silly place to go. Maybe. I just think people should be more open minded sometimes. Unless there's some kind of major red flag or incompatibility going on a date with somebody shouldn't be that big of a deal. You chill, hang out, maybe have fun, maybe something shakes out maybe it doesn't. That's what I'm getting at. Nothing about your general situation, 49, which I generally have empathy for. At any rate, I think the girl in the example is showing little self-respect. I don't really disrespect her for it, but I'd urge her to respect herself a bit more and not chase after something that is clearly not happening. Yup. She should have more respect for herself that's for sure. The one thing I will revise about what I said. There is a gender component to this, but it's that men are more likely to use these sorts of situations to their advantage and become players or cheats.
EasyHeart Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I actually don't have any problem with the girl in the OP. The guy was being a jerk, but I don't think she did anything wrong, besides maybe having poor taste in men. I think we can all agree that the guy in the OP is a jerk, if only for showing ES those messages. I don't lack respect for anyone (male or female) who pursues someone that they like; that's the only way you're going to get a date. This girl asked a guy out who gave her an ambivalent answer and then followed up and tried again. I've done that many, many times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's never any shame in trying. The only point I'd make to people is that bombarding people with messages (and I don't think the girl in the OP did that in this example) or asking someone out repeatedly after they've turned you down repeatedly is a poor dating strategy because IT DOESN'T WORK. That should be the real message. 2
zengirl Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Maybe. I just think people should be more open minded sometimes. Unless there's some kind of major red flag or incompatibility going on a date with somebody shouldn't be that big of a deal. You chill, hang out, maybe have fun, maybe something shakes out maybe it doesn't. That's what I'm getting at. This really is a factor of (A) how much time you have/how valuable your time is to you and (B) how uncomfortable you'd be misrepresenting yourself. I mean, 49, would you really be happy if someone went on a date with you and then basically said they never had any interest in you? Most people wouldn't, maybe you would. I'd sooner have someone tell me honestly that they can't see themselves seeing me that way -- and if they still want to honesty get to know me, as a person/friend/etc, they can say that too. Then the other person knows what's up and can make an informed choice. Yup. She should have more respect for herself that's for sure. The one thing I will revise about what I said. There is a gender component to this, but it's that men are more likely to use these sorts of situations to their advantage and become players or cheats. Not necessarily. Female players exist and juggle multiple men and mistreat men as well. I actually don't have any problem with the girl in the OP. The guy was being a jerk, but I don't think she did anything wrong, besides maybe having poor taste in men. I think we can all agree that the guy in the OP is a jerk, if only for showing ES those messages. Yes, showing the messages was jerk-like. As was not simply stating if he did not want to be messaged. I don't know that the girl did anything "wrong" --- she just did something I wouldn't advise. I don't lack respect for anyone (male or female) who pursues someone that they like; that's the only way you're going to get a date. This girl asked a guy out who gave her an ambivalent answer and then followed up and tried again. I've done that many, many times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's never any shame in trying. The only point I'd make to people is that bombarding people with messages (and I don't think the girl in the OP did that in this example) or asking someone out repeatedly after they've turned you down repeatedly is a poor dating strategy because IT DOESN'T WORK. That should be the real message. Right. I'd also add sending messages repeatedly after they've gone unanswered is a poor strategy, which is what she seems to have done. That doesn't work either and people shouldn't confuse it with more positive pursuing, IMO, because then some people get discouraged when they are pursuing in situations that are nearly destined to fail and decide not to try at all anymore.
somedude81 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 If anything, the girl was stupid for wanting to be just another piece of ass for that guy. She showed zero self-respect. The guy could have easily pumped and dumped her. Sounds like he did her a favor. I'd also have no sympathy for a guy in the same situation with a girl. The equivalent would be hanging around a girl and always buying her things or doing her favors, and never getting anything in return.
Els Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I actually don't have any problem with the girl in the OP. The guy was being a jerk, but I don't think she did anything wrong, besides maybe having poor taste in men. I think we can all agree that the guy in the OP is a jerk, if only for showing ES those messages. Agreed. I don't lack respect for anyone (male or female) who pursues someone that they like; that's the only way you're going to get a date. This girl asked a guy out who gave her an ambivalent answer and then followed up and tried again. I've done that many, many times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's never any shame in trying. The only point I'd make to people is that bombarding people with messages (and I don't think the girl in the OP did that in this example) or asking someone out repeatedly after they've turned you down repeatedly is a poor dating strategy because IT DOESN'T WORK. That should be the real message. There's pursuing, and then there's clinging on for dear life despite the other person clearly trying to dislodge you. This girl comes uncomfortably close to the latter. Pursuing is in doing the initiating, which she did, great. When someone turns you down, self-respect dictates that you accept and respect that. Not ask them again and again, repeatedly, for something they clearly are not interested in. There IS shame in that, IMO, even if the shame is in being too inexperienced to read such clear social cues.
EasyHeart Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Right. I'd also add sending messages repeatedly after they've gone unanswered is a poor strategy, which is what she seems to have done. That doesn't work either and people shouldn't confuse it with more positive pursuing, IMO, because then some people get discouraged when they are pursuing in situations that are nearly destined to fail and decide not to try at all anymore.That's fair. I read through it quickly and didn't realize how many separate contacts she made. My rule was always "three strikes and you're out": if I asked someone out three times and didn't get a date, I gave up. But she was nice and I think tried to be casual about it, so I feel more bad for her (and her taste in men) than I feel negative towards her. I think, too, that things like FB and text messages exacerbate things like this. In the old days, we had to pick up a phone and call. I'll never forget my teenage years when I would sometimes stare at the phone for HOURS (or even days) before I got up the nerve to call a girl. Good times!
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 This really is a factor of (A) how much time you have/how valuable your time is to you and (B) how uncomfortable you'd be misrepresenting yourself. I mean, 49, would you really be happy if someone went on a date with you and then basically said they never had any interest in you? Most people wouldn't, maybe you would. I'd sooner have someone tell me honestly that they can't see themselves seeing me that way -- and if they still want to honesty get to know me, as a person/friend/etc, they can say that too. Then the other person knows what's up and can make an informed choice. In the OP the girl was trying to get the guy to go to a show that she had tickets for. Let's say there was a guy who was interested in her but she wasn't crazy about. What would have been the harm of inviting that kind of guy out with her? Assuming she didn't deliberately mislead him. Maybe they hit off, maybe they never do anything together ever again, maybe they become friends. Either way, it beats going alone.
Els Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 In the OP the girl was trying to get the guy to go to a show that she had tickets for. Let's say there was a guy who was interested in her but she wasn't crazy about. What would have been the harm of inviting that kind of guy out with her? Assuming she didn't deliberately mislead him. Maybe they hit off, maybe they never do anything together ever again, maybe they become friends. Either way, it beats going alone. The bolded two sentences are a complete contradiction. No matter what you say, I can assure you that inviting a person with a crush on you out to watch a movie, just the two of you, IS misleading them. She could invite a platonic friend, female friend, or relative, but inviting a guy who she knows is interested in her and she definitely isn't interested in, is a horrible idea. More so for the guy than for her.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 The bolded two sentences are a complete contradiction. No matter what you say, I can assure you that inviting a person with a crush on you out to watch a movie, just the two of you, IS misleading them. She could invite a platonic friend, female friend, or relative, but inviting a guy who she knows is interested in her and she definitely isn't interested in, is a horrible idea. More so for the guy than for her. Perhaps I'm a victim of my own experience then. On first dates I always act like a platonic friend than a romantic interest. If I want to see the person again I ask them out. If they say no, or give an excuse then I know where I stand. No harm, no foul. At least I had a date instead of staying home. I guess I thought that's how most people are.
waiting4u Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I can totally relate to this poor girl. I think when someone plays hard to get, or when it is construed that way, it makes you want them more. It's messed up I know. I work with this guy (peripherally) who used to text me all the time about random stuff, we went out once on a date and I made it clear I wasn't sleeping with him on a first date. After, I saw him a few times at work and he would send the occasional flirty text - "looking good today" or some such thing. The contact became less and less (and I liked him) so I finally just asked him out. He had a good excuse for turning me down, so I tried again two more times. He ended up giving me this sob story about how he was suffering from depression and that's why he couldn't date. I felt SO humiliated that I had chased him. I think the case here is just wanting what you have to work for rather than what comes easy for you. It's a shame it works that way, but it does. The guy in the OP's story probably should just have been up front to begin with. "I'm just not that interested" works well enough.
Els Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Perhaps I'm a victim of my own experience then. On first dates I always act like a platonic friend than a romantic interest. If I want to see the person again I ask them out. If they say no, or give an excuse then I know where I stand. No harm, no foul. At least I had a date instead of staying home. I guess I thought that's how most people are. Urgh, really? I would hate if someone who clearly knew I was interested in him did that. It'd be like, "You KNOW I'm interested in you, and instead of saying no when you've meant no all along, you do this, get my hopes up, and then say no... and perhaps rinse and repeat? No effing way." I had a guy who treated me like that in my teens. I'd give him MAJOR hints, and he'd do stuff like squeeze my shoulders, hold my hands, ask me to go somewhere with him, just the two of us... but he clearly wasn't interested when I tried to push things along. After several months of that, I fortunately did the right thing and moved on. Edited May 2, 2012 by Elswyth
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Urgh, really? I would hate if someone who clearly knew I was interested in him did that. It'd be like, "You KNOW I'm interested in you, and instead of saying no when you've meant no all along, you do this, get my hopes up, and then say no... and perhaps rinse and repeat? No effing way." I had a guy who treated me like that in my teens. I'd give him MAJOR hints, and he'd do stuff like squeeze my shoulders, hold my hands, ask me to go somewhere with him, just the two of us... but he clearly wasn't interested when I tried to push things along. After several months of that, I fortunately did the right thing and moved on. Well I think that's a totally different situation. Someone who knows you're interested for sure vs someone who thinks you might sort of be interested. No girl I've ever asked out (aside from online dating) probably ever thought I was interested in them. At least romantically. And given how I acted on dates they probably never figured it out either. To me first dates are no different than two friends hanging out. Only difference is there's no previously defined terms to the relationship.
threebyfate Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I kind of cringed for her.Kind of? Desperation has a stench of its own!
xxoo Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I agree with EasyHeart. The girl's messages sound breezy, not desperate...and he did give ambivalent answers. It sounds like her last message made clear that she got the point. The guy is an azz for giving ambivalent answers and essentially ridiculing her for not getting the hint.
RedRobin Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I find it hard to believe that the attentions of 'text' girl were completely unwarranted and unsolicited. I'm betting there was plenty of flirting/back and forth between the colleague and text girl. Most women aren't going to put themselves out there unless some kind of interest is shown by the guy. Also, 'text' girl has no way of knowing he is a player from a few exchanges. OP is in a much better position to gage that than 'text' girl, because she's around him more often. If anything, I think the OP is the naive one assuming that her colleague did nothing to invite this attention... given his other behavior, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. 'text' girl took the initiative sure. She put it out there twice after receiving a so-so answer. Hardly 'desperate'. Just direct. all things considered though... the onus is on the OP for continuing the BS since she is posting it here. Duly noted. Also noted that OP and player guy seem well-suited for each other.
zengirl Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 That's fair. I read through it quickly and didn't realize how many separate contacts she made. My rule was always "three strikes and you're out": if I asked someone out three times and didn't get a date, I gave up. Sounds like a good rule. My rule for if someone is so rude that they literally don't write/text/call/whatever me back AT ALL (and this is for friendship too) is always 1, though. If someone can't tell me, "Naw, I'm too busy," and give me that common courtesy, they seem a poor prospect to pursue. But I don't "blame" someone who does; I'd simply caution them against it. I agree her tone was nice and casual. I don't think that's actually the way to do such things to greatest success either, but nothing wrong with it. It's just not a technique I'd recommend. Nothing worth ridiculing her over, though. In the OP the girl was trying to get the guy to go to a show that she had tickets for. Let's say there was a guy who was interested in her but she wasn't crazy about. What would have been the harm of inviting that kind of guy out with her? Assuming she didn't deliberately mislead him. Maybe they hit off, maybe they never do anything together ever again, maybe they become friends. Either way, it beats going alone. There's NO harm in inviting him. I do question why you'd want to invite someone who'd ignored you (it's really the last invite I question, since he ignored the previous one entirely) or not ask someone else if they said no. However, inviting someone on a date is not the same thing as simply hanging out with them, and if you've no interest in someone in a dating sense and suspect they do have that interest in you/want to date you, it's wrong to go out with them under that pretext, IMO. I've certainly hung out with men I've never dated. Personally, I've never been on a "Is this or isn't this a date?" type of date because I'm always pretty forthright with such feelings. I think that's for the best, especially since people often complain they feel 'led on' by others. I would never say I act like a platonic friend on most first dates, though obviously I don't act overly familiar, as I generally don't know the person yet!
somedude81 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I wonder if she was aware of his reputation? And even if not, what kind of girl obviously tries like that? And repeatedly.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 There's NO harm in inviting him. I do question why you'd want to invite someone who'd ignored you (it's really the last invite I question, since he ignored the previous one entirely) or not ask someone else if they said no. However, inviting someone on a date is not the same thing as simply hanging out with them, and if you've no interest in someone in a dating sense and suspect they do have that interest in you/want to date you, it's wrong to go out with them under that pretext, IMO. I've certainly hung out with men I've never dated. Personally, I've never been on a "Is this or isn't this a date?" type of date because I'm always pretty forthright with such feelings. I think that's for the best, especially since people often complain they feel 'led on' by others. I would never say I act like a platonic friend on most first dates, though obviously I don't act overly familiar, as I generally don't know the person yet! Well, like I said, the way I thought these things go is you ask someone you think is to some degree interesting, cute whatever your particular standards are, out to do something. Maybe a movie you've both expressed interest in, maybe an activity you both like, whatever. If you hit it off you hit it off. If not, oh well. It's not like anything happens on first dates anyway. In this particular case of the OP, at least an extra ticket to a show wasn't wasted. And for the guy, he got to be seen out in public with a girl. Now of course if it's like Elswyth said and it's someone you know for a fact has romantic feelings for you, then it's another issue entirely. And of course you should not do anything to get signals crossed.
RedRobin Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I wonder if she was aware of his reputation? And even if not, what kind of girl obviously tries like that? And repeatedly. What do you mean 'what kind of girl'? SD, she tried twice after getting some initial reciprocation. Big deal. If I were the OP, I would have dug in to see what mo-jo he might have been working behind the scenes before posting this. As it is, I guess he thought that showing this to the OP was going to score him some points. Looks like it worked to some extent. Which is sad. If guys want girls to try their hand at approaching them, you can't beat them up for trying in a respectful way. Not trying to be snarky, but maybe you could take some notes from her? She was at least willing to step out of her comfort zone a little.
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