wellwhynot Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Yes, there is such a thing as A fog. Some cannot recognize it or refuse to acknowledge it, but it exists. It is that heady feeling that causes one to forget about the potential consequences of engaging in an A. Also known as the heady feeling one experiences in a new relationship or one where there is a lot of love, whether someone is engaged in an affair or not. It may make it easier for the betrayed spouses and those attempting to pull the wool over someone's eyes to use it as an excuse, but yeah, it's an excuse not a reality.
donnamaybe Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Also known as the heady feeling one experiences in a new relationship or one where there is a lot of love, whether someone is engaged in an affair or not. It may make it easier for the betrayed spouses and those attempting to pull the wool over someone's eyes to use it as an excuse, but yeah, it's an excuse not a reality. And that's fine if the love goes both ways. However, as evidenced by numerous stories of the WS tossing their AP under the bus on D day, they are very good at pretending love. They pull the fog right over the eyes of their AP.
BigLiam Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 This fog seems born of dopamine and some of the other chenicals released during limerance(sp?). I have seen many WSs mortified, in retrospect, by their behavior during the cheating(those that can face themselves). Would your folks or siblings approve of this relationship? Does it violate your fundamental values? You should definitely get out of it, IMO. 1
alexandria35 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Also known as the heady feeling one experiences in a new relationship or one where there is a lot of love, whether someone is engaged in an affair or not. It may make it easier for the betrayed spouses and those attempting to pull the wool over someone's eyes to use it as an excuse, but yeah, it's an excuse not a reality. Haven't you ever witnessed a friend or a loved one falling head over hills into a relationship that you and everyone else knows is just a trainwreck waiting to happen? Maybe the new love interest is just wrong for your friend/loved one or maybe the new love interest is a total and complete ass and everyone knows it but your friend/loved one is refusing to see it? What do call that? What makes a person blind to red flags and consequences? I've seen it happen to a couple of people who are normally level headed and perfectly rational and I've been left scratching my head and wondering where the heck my smart down to earth friend went? and who has taken possesion over her body? LOL. I had one friend who had always been extremely responsible, practical and even keeled. One day she met a man and she was swept up in passion and chemistry. This guy ended up beating her on a regular basis, when she tried to leave him, he beat her and raped her. She had him arrested the first time, he got bail and then he did it again. Her life became a true living nightmare. There was no way she could have known it was going to end up that bad but she sure as hell had enough information to know this guy was bad news. We all did and we all tried to pull her away from him. Why did she, someone who had always been intelligent and level headed, completely choose to ignore reality? Why was she so convinced this loser was her soulmate? Who knows? I suspect it had everything to do with the recent loss of her parents and not having been recovered from that. Loser man came along and made her feel good, protected, cared for and loved. She let herself become swept up in that and she ignored everything else because she didn't want to give up the heady lovey feelings she was getting from him and she paid a very heavy price for that. Sometimes the people we become attracted to are just plain bad for us. Nobody is saying it only happens to affair partners. Anyone of us can become lost in the fog of good feelings we get from a new person, but it doesn't mean it's really love or that it's good for us. 2
wellwhynot Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Sometimes the people we become attracted to are just plain bad for us. Nobody is saying it only happens to affair partners. Anyone of us can become lost in the fog of good feelings we get from a new person, but it doesn't mean it's really love or that it's good for us. That was actually my point. That it isn't an affair fog, it's just the way relationships can make people act.
BigLiam Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 That was actually my point. That it isn't an affair fog, it's just the way relationships can make people act. Yeah, I think this fog deal is present in a lot of romantic relationships at the beginning, regardless of infidelity. But, in an infidelity scenario, the casting off of previously held values is so dramatic, that the fog must be very dense. "What fools these mortals be" eh? Chasing orgasms at the expense of their souls. Okay, back to my internet porn, now:bunny:. 1
alexandria35 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 That was actually my point. That it isn't an affair fog, it's just the way relationships can make people act. Right. Many people are in a kind of foggy denial while they are participating in a self destructive relationship, like an affair. 1
wellwhynot Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Right. Many people are in a kind of foggy denial while they are participating in a self destructive relationship, like an affair. No, they are foggy when they are focus solely on another person. It doesn't have to be that the relationship is unhealthy, it's the tunnel vision that people are speaking of
jlola Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Right. Many people are in a kind of foggy denial while they are participating in a self destructive relationship, like an affair. I think ]most relationships where there are obstacles can be a fog. Would Romeo and Juliette have been so crazed with passion had the parents just let them be? Would the characters in "Bridges of Madison county" been so madly in love. I mean here was a traveling photographer who never fell in love before, but falls madly for an average MW he barely knows in a matter of days. How would "real life" have been for them? Remember this story? people will sacrifice much and ignore red flags under the influence of dopamine. Runaway Princess and Marine Love Story Fails! Dec 30, 2005 → By WALEG Have you heard of the Bahraini princess Mariam Al Khalifa and the US marine Jason Johnsons story? The story started in January 1999 when Johnson was sent to serve his duty for one year in Bahrain. Mariam Al-Khalifa is a relative of Bahrain’s king, Sheik Hamad Bin Isa Al-Khalifa. The couple met at a mall and immediately fell in love. Johnson was a strict Mormon Christian and she was a Muslim. After a series of incidents, which involved the secret police of Bahrain following the Princess with the young marine, her family were informed and ordered an end to the romance. However the young and hopeful couple continued to secretly exchange letters through a store employee at the mall. Johnson managed to arrange a runaway plan in order to marry the princess. He forged military documents, making out that she was a US marine wanting to return to the states. When the couple reached the states, Bahrain had informed the government of the princess' absence and Johnson was demoted and discharged from the Marines. The couple married in Las Vegas on Nov. 16, 1999. Mariam was only 19!!! And since then she has been seeking asylum. However within the past year, it has become known that the princess and the marine had a divorce, and she is seeing another rich LA businessman. Do you think that this childhood fantasy which lost her, her reputation (as a Muslim woman), her family and her luxurious lifestyle (as a princess) was worth it? Do you believe that the princess is now being punished for her wrong doings and she should regret what she has done? Or do you see what she did as an act of great bravery, courage and determination? She has not been banned from the Bahrain apparently; however she has decided not to return to the Bahrain in fear of her life. Her family issued a statement which firmly said that they would not harm or hurt Princess Mariam Al Khalifa in any way, shape or form if she decided to return. What punishment do you think she should encounter? If she should be punished at all?
alexandria35 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I thought the Bridges of Madison County was one of the stupidest movies I have ever seen. I can't believe Clint Eastwood agreed to be in such a stupid boring movie. It was totally unbelievable and dull. As for the princess you spoke of, well it's hard to say how she might feel about the decision she made years ago. She might regret the marriage but perhaps she is still happy to have escsaped the oppressiveness of her family and the muslim culture. She might like her new life. The marine was dismissed from duty so he might regret the relationship more than she does. As the parent of adult children I can certainly attest to the fact that the more you try to keep a teen away from their "soulmate" the harder they fight to be together. I agree that the element of "us against the world" can add a lot of fuel to a relationship that otherwise may have run it's course and burned out a lot sooner.
alexandria35 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 No, they are foggy when they are focus solely on another person. It doesn't have to be that the relationship is unhealthy, it's the tunnel vision that people are speaking of But wouldn't you agree that anyone who is participating in a self destructive, painful relationship and insisting that it's true love is somewhat foggy and in denial?
Author VioletFemme Posted May 2, 2012 Author Posted May 2, 2012 Wow, that was a lot to catch up on and read. I'm going to need a bit more time to think over all that you all have said. But wanted to answer a few questions / clarify some stuff. He's been moved out for over a year at this point. I'm afraid of getting hurt by this thing because--moved out or not--he has made no further move toward permanently ending his marriage. Someone said he's still emotionally or mentally married, and I agree with this assessment. The first six months I knew him, when we were just friends and nothing more, I kept expecting him to come tell me he was moving back with his wife and kids! (A part of me might still be expcting this.) He says he has not moved forward because of the kids. I do know how sad and miserable he is to be away from his kids, we talk about that a lot. I'm not a parent, I'm single and child-free, so I have no basis of comparison on this issue. How love for kids could keep you paralyzed or stuck. That COULD absolutely be the case. But I'm also smart enough to know it COULD just be an excuse. I feel on the one hand that we are not doing anything wrong--he was separated long before we got physically involved. However-no, no one knows about this relationship, it is still hidden, and while there COULD be legitimate reasons for that, it makes it feel wrong. The pain I guess I feel most of the time is kind of: why the heck do I have to like and even love this man so much? It's not easy like I think love should be; it's not simple. It's completely messed up, and any good feelings can get overridden by worry, fear, and guilt. I feel guilty for wanting more from him when he's not capable of giving it. I feel like I am betraying myself a little bit-stupid to be going forward with this, I do deserve better as someone said and I do know this. I knew he was a mess the first time I talked to him, his life was a mess, etc. I guess I asked the original question because I’ve not lost my common sense for the most part, and I’m certainly not walking around deliriously happy. I’m using my common sense to see where his words could be true, or could just be excuses. I almost walked away completely once; I told myself “if this guy wants to be with me, he’ll figure out a way to be with me.” I debated moving even! But that seemed too much like running away and like making an emotional power play. I guess that I WANT to be happy about this love that I feel for another person, but I cannot be happy with it. Because its a mess.
Snowflower Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Wow, that was a lot to catch up on and read. I'm going to need a bit more time to think over all that you all have said. But wanted to answer a few questions / clarify some stuff. He's been moved out for over a year at this point. I'm afraid of getting hurt by this thing because--moved out or not--he has made no further move toward permanently ending his marriage. Someone said he's still emotionally or mentally married, and I agree with this assessment. The first six months I knew him, when we were just friends and nothing more, I kept expecting him to come tell me he was moving back with his wife and kids! (A part of me might still be expcting this.) He says he has not moved forward because of the kids. I do know how sad and miserable he is to be away from his kids, we talk about that a lot. I'm not a parent, I'm single and child-free, so I have no basis of comparison on this issue. How love for kids could keep you paralyzed or stuck. That COULD absolutely be the case. But I'm also smart enough to know it COULD just be an excuse. re: the bolded... I think you know the answer to your own question...the kids are just an excuse for him. Why, why, why IF he has already been away from his kids for a YEAR would it matter if he proceeded to divorce now? In fact, a divorce might allow him MORE time with his kids. Depending on the ages of his kids, the court might structure custody arrangements so that he has his kids with him more, not less. Something smells fishy here. Think about it. I don't know why some guys drag out the ending of their marriage so long. Maybe he is waiting for his wife to file the divorce...many men seem to do this for a variety of reasons. It smacks of these guys being cowards and conflict-avoiders, not a good choice in a potential mate! Run for the hills, violetfemme! Continue to follow your instincts--they are serving you well. Something is not right here.
jwi71 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Wow, that was a lot to catch up on and read. I'm going to need a bit more time to think over all that you all have said. But wanted to answer a few questions / clarify some stuff. He's been moved out for over a year at this point. I'm afraid of getting hurt by this thing because--moved out or not--he has made no further move toward permanently ending his marriage. Someone said he's still emotionally or mentally married, and I agree with this assessment. The first six months I knew him, when we were just friends and nothing more, I kept expecting him to come tell me he was moving back with his wife and kids! (A part of me might still be expcting this.) He says he has not moved forward because of the kids. I do know how sad and miserable he is to be away from his kids, we talk about that a lot. I'm not a parent, I'm single and child-free, so I have no basis of comparison on this issue. How love for kids could keep you paralyzed or stuck. That COULD absolutely be the case. But I'm also smart enough to know it COULD just be an excuse. I feel on the one hand that we are not doing anything wrong--he was separated long before we got physically involved. However-no, no one knows about this relationship, it is still hidden, and while there COULD be legitimate reasons for that, it makes it feel wrong. The pain I guess I feel most of the time is kind of: why the heck do I have to like and even love this man so much? It's not easy like I think love should be; it's not simple. It's completely messed up, and any good feelings can get overridden by worry, fear, and guilt. I feel guilty for wanting more from him when he's not capable of giving it. I feel like I am betraying myself a little bit-stupid to be going forward with this, I do deserve better as someone said and I do know this. I knew he was a mess the first time I talked to him, his life was a mess, etc. I guess I asked the original question because I’ve not lost my common sense for the most part, and I’m certainly not walking around deliriously happy. I’m using my common sense to see where his words could be true, or could just be excuses. I almost walked away completely once; I told myself “if this guy wants to be with me, he’ll figure out a way to be with me.” I debated moving even! But that seemed too much like running away and like making an emotional power play. I guess that I WANT to be happy about this love that I feel for another person, but I cannot be happy with it. Because its a mess. If you ever find yourself making excuses for his actions or ignoring that little voice in your head - you ARE in the fog. It's just enough obfuscation to justify to yourself continuing despite your own internal voice, the advice of friends (and strangers) and conjuring excuses for another's actions or lack there of. I think you know what to do. Now do it.
Emme Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 he has made no further move toward permanently ending his marriage. However-no, no one knows about this relationship, it is still hidden, and while there COULD be legitimate reasons for that, it makes it feel wrong. There we go.... You know deep down you know better. You're a smart woman. Whether it's lust or love are you willing to invest in a relationship that is kept silent and might not have a future. That is what you are dealing with. You have to decide if you are a kept woman. I know he's "separated" but he is still married... Leaving a home does not mean you are separated. When you file for a legal separation then you are separated. When the time frame of the separation is up... It's time to think divorce or reconciliation. He just changed address. I want you to think of it that way. Many people don't view separation that way and they should. He might be financially strapped and this situation right now is what he can afford to do. The courts would milk him for more money. His wife understands and is willing to accept what is. The thing that should scare you is what made their marriage end. Do you even know that information. Would it be truth of fiction. You have to decide if you want to be the OW. Lets be technical. That's how you should make your decision.
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