RookieatLove Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Hi, please don't hate on me for posting this, but in order to understand my situation that underlies the main question in this topic, I need to give you all a bit of background information first. I am a 25 year old male who has never dated, never kissed and never had penetrative sex with a woman. In the last 10 years, I have had 10 opportunities with women to have sex and pursue relationships (they all showed legitimate interest, I've even had a homosexual male offer kissing lessons which I politely declined), but I always held back and withdrew due to having self esteem issues with my thin/slim body. I was always under the belief that you needed to have a muscular body to attract women, it was a be all end all if you weren't muscular in physique and thought I was inadequate because of my slim build. How wrong I was. Ten years have flown by and I now find myself in that "quarter life crisis" where I am basically 10 years behind the rest of the world in relationship experience and feel like that the window of opportunity to be able to attract a woman successfully into a loving relationship has all but closed. The thing is, despite my lack of relationship experience, there are other things going for me. I am widely considered by my friends and people I know to be a highly attractive, handsome looking guy, I have a great natural sense of humour and can make people laugh in regular conversation without even trying to intentionally make people laugh, I have multiple profession qualifications, steady career, am well off financially and have all other aspects of my life under control. But when it comes to love and relationships, its a major failure in my life, zilch experience, nothing, a complete disaster potentially that I may never be able to salvage completely. I am not so worried about the virginity issue because I'm confident I can overcome that with my other qualities as a person as a whole, and I have no time for those that judge me purely based on penetrative sexual experience and frankly, I deserve better, but when it comes to kissing (which i've never done), this is what i'm really worried about given that kissing seems to be one of the most important criteria when determining compatibility/sexual chemistry in a relationship and a lips smooch more often than not singlehandedly determines whether a relationship can proceed to the next level. Given my extremely late start to dating and relationships, I simply don't have the time to invest months into a woman only for her to instantly reject me purely on the basis of being a bad kisser. I need to find a way to be able to learn the art of kissing well enough so I can minimize my chance of rejection as much as possible so I am not perceived by woman to be socially akward and ultimately be rejected on the spot on that basis. So my quesiton is, given that I don't know any women in my circle of friends that would willingly volunteer to help me practice kissing, where can you learn/practice how to kiss (in-person practice, not just viewing videos on youtube) without risking yourself on the dating scene which i've had zero experience with and possibly being exposed as a bad kisser and being rejected on the spot? Are there classes/workshops where you can practice kissing? Can you pay escorts just to specifically engage in mouth kissing only without penetrative sex? Are there other options? Or is the only real option to grind it out the hard way, date as many women as possible with trial and error and keep getting rejected for being a bad kisser/lack of sexual chemistry until i've done it enough times to be good enough at it to finally successfully attract a woman into a loving relationship? Any advice (especially from males 25 or older who have gone through the same "Fear of the unknown") would be greatly appreciated. Edited April 30, 2012 by RookieatLove
USMCHokie Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Dust. But seriously though, you won't know you're a bad kisser until you've tried it. Don't stress out over it. Just keep your spit to yourself and enjoy it. My first kiss was at 23, and I've always been told I was very good at it. As with most things related to sex, just be both enthusiastic and considerate and you'll go far. And for the love of god, get yourself to a gym...
ThatDudeXO Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Just kiss someone and you'll learn. As a late bloomer my first kiss was at 18 and it just came natural. I was extremely nervous but so surprised at how easy it was after!
JesseJames Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 First of all, you're young, unless you have crap genes or had a full beard in the eighth grade. Do not create a crisis, especially comparing yourself to others. There are many, numerous men out there that have not experienced making out and sex, and even more that have, but had experienced no passion. Making out with the right person is probably the funnest thing you'll do. You need to have the right person and you both need to be an accompanist. If you've played piano with a singer and you both jive, then you are accompanying each other. If you have no experience or aren't one to be an accompanist, then you... god help you. If you do, then there's no need to worry. It will happen, you will do everything quite naturally, and you most likely will laugh your ass off and wanting more. When you get that far, you'll gain enough experience and confidence from that to start on simple sex. If it bothers you too much not having had sex, then perhaps take a flight out to Nevada. Don't be kissing on prostitutes FFS. If you've ever had a cold sore, just one will knock you out for days and it will hurt with every step you take. I've had one in my life, it reappeared once due to stress, the little bastards are of horror. Be patient. Sometimes you have to be forward to get to that making out situation unless you are slippery as hell like myself. Other times it's best when the stars align and a session could initiate itself. Use all of your self-awareness. And as far as skinny goes, DO NOT let these fat f$#@s as we call them get you down, or anyone else for that matter. They are the freaks, not you. Build a nice chest, some arms, some abs, and you will leave most people in your dust.
PlumPrincess Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 The Art of Kissing by William Cane. I'm not sure if I learned anything from it, but I got it years ago and it was fun.
DuchessKaye Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Learnt it from books and videos I learnt it from Stoya's videos... I copy her in every way... Who the fudge is Stoya? She's a star...
Ross MwcFan Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 The only way to properly lean it is from practice with a real woman I guess. But getting to kiss a real woman is easier said than done.
january2011 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Some tips (for kissing without tongues): Practise on your hand. Roll your hand up so that it forms a fist, index finger near knuckle = top lip, thumb near knuckle = bottom lip. Breathe through your nose. Practise massaging your fingers with you lips as though you are slowly eating a peach. Needs to be firm but not hard and forced. Soft but not weak and lacklustre. Should be warm and just slightly wet. Alternate the massage between the two 'lips'. The rhythm you're aiming for is similar to the rise and fall of your breathing (which should be calm). When you finally kiss someone, remember how much you like her and convey that to her through the kiss. If she is a lot shorter than you, cradle her head and face with your hands. Keep your eyes closed - do not stare at her during the kiss. Also practise kissing while leaning your head to the right or the left to find out which way feels most comfortable and natural for you. Make sure your teeth are clean and your breath is fresh. Use lipsalve or moisturiser to ensure that your lips aren't chapped. And yes, watch YouTube videos for more tips. 1
Pierre Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 You do not learn how to kiss. Kissing is as natural as walking, running, defecating, or speaking. A good kiss is not about technique. Kissing is about the moment and the romance. If a woman does not like a man his kissing technique will do nothing. 2
Radu Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Some tips (for kissing without tongues): Practise on your hand. Roll your hand up so that it forms a fist, index finger near knuckle = top lip, thumb near knuckle = bottom lip. Breathe through your nose. Practise massaging your fingers with you lips as though you are slowly eating a peach. Needs to be firm but not hard and forced. Soft but not weak and lacklustre. Should be warm and just slightly wet. Alternate the massage between the two 'lips'. The rhythm you're aiming for is similar to the rise and fall of your breathing (which should be calm). When you finally kiss someone, remember how much you like her and convey that to her through the kiss. If she is a lot shorter than you, cradle her head and face with your hands. Keep your eyes closed - do not stare at her during the kiss. Also practise kissing while leaning your head to the right or the left to find out which way feels most comfortable and natural for you. Make sure your teeth are clean and your breath is fresh. Use lipsalve or moisturiser to ensure that your lips aren't chapped. And yes, watch YouTube videos for more tips. I did this OP, i was 24 at the time ... you are not alone in this. Though i was the reverse of you, big build and fat. The chapped lips thing is amazing, my lips were horrible. My favorite is Nivea strawberry, i intentionally chose it because it's pink and when a date sees it, it usually starts some conversation around it.
Pierre Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Some tips (for kissing without tongues): Practise on your hand. Roll your hand up so that it forms a fist, index finger near knuckle = top lip, thumb near knuckle = bottom lip. Breathe through your nose. Practise massaging your fingers with you lips as though you are slowly eating a peach. Needs to be firm but not hard and forced. Soft but not weak and lacklustre. Should be warm and just slightly wet. Alternate the massage between the two 'lips'. The rhythm you're aiming for is similar to the rise and fall of your breathing (which should be calm). When you finally kiss someone, remember how much you like her and convey that to her through the kiss. If she is a lot shorter than you, cradle her head and face with your hands. Keep your eyes closed - do not stare at her during the kiss. Also practise kissing while leaning your head to the right or the left to find out which way feels most comfortable and natural for you. Make sure your teeth are clean and your breath is fresh. Use lipsalve or moisturiser to ensure that your lips aren't chapped. And yes, watch YouTube videos for more tips. I fully disagree with mechanical thoughts while kissing. It takes all the fun away and is not natural. A kiss is a kiss--------------it is simple human physiology. One does not think about which muscles to move when walking or running. Otherwise walking or running would feel highly un-natural.
Radu Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Kegel exercises Pierre, look it up ... works on women, pregnant women and even men. Not to mention every martial art out there. Practice mechanically untill it becomes natural.
january2011 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 I fully disagree with mechanical thoughts while kissing. It takes all the fun away and is not natural. A kiss is a kiss--------------it is simple human physiology. One does not think about which muscles to move when walking or running. Otherwise walking or running would feel highly un-natural. We aren't born to walk or run. We learn the mechanics first until they become second nature to us. And defecating and speaking are not 'natural' functions - kids need to learn those - ask a parent or a teacher. For novices like the OP, instruction is helpful. Some people need a breakdown of 'how to' as a jumping off point. A kiss is not human physiology - it's human behaviour. Behaviour has to be learned through instruction and practice, it is not automatic nor is it part of the human body's natural physiological functions.
Radu Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 We aren't born to walk or run. We learn the mechanics first until they become second nature to us. And defecating and speaking are not 'natural' functions - kids need to learn those - ask a parent or a teacher. For novices like the OP, instruction is helpful. Some people need a breakdown of 'how to' as a jumping off point. A kiss is not human physiology - it's human behaviour. Behaviour has to be learned through instruction and practice, it is not automatic nor is it part of the human body's natural physiological functions. Tbh, for defecating and stuff like smiling (primates smile to show submission) there is quite some evidence that it is geneticly ingrained in us. Same goes for the newborn seeking out that nipple of the mother for feeding.
january2011 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Tbh, for defecating and stuff like smiling (primates smile to show submission) there is quite some evidence that it is geneticly ingrained in us. Same goes for the newborn seeking out that nipple of the mother for feeding. Newborns are born with certain reflexes. That's true. However to consider kissing to be 'natural' like defecating, speaking, walking and running are not quite the right comparisons to make, in my opinion. And we are far from being able to link behaviour directly to genetics. Presumably, we're trying to help the OP to learn about kissing rather than turn the thread into an intellectual debate about what's considered 'natural', no?
Pierre Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 We aren't born to walk or run. We learn the mechanics first until they become second nature to us. And defecating and speaking are not 'natural' functions - kids need to learn those - ask a parent or a teacher. For novices like the OP, instruction is helpful. Some people need a breakdown of 'how to' as a jumping off point. A kiss is not human physiology - it's human behaviour. Behaviour has to be learned through instruction and practice, it is not automatic nor is it part of the human body's natural physiological functions. You make good points, but I still believe you break down the kiss into a very mechanical act. If this guy has to follow all the instructions you provided he will likely fail. Kids simply learn how to poop by instinct with the help of the parents. There are no step by step written directions on how to poop or urinate. After a while it happens because we are animals. No one teaches a dog to lick the hand of his owner.
january2011 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 You make good points, but I still believe you break down the kiss into a very mechanical act. If this guy has to follow all the instructions you provided he will likely fail. Kids simply learn how to poop by instinct with the help of the parents. There are no step by step written directions on how to poop or urinate. After a while it happens because we are animals. No one teaches a dog to lick the hand of his owner. We're going to have to agree to disagree on the poop and pee points since I think we'll go O/T if we continue down this road. What I'm trying to convey is that once one learns to kiss, after a while, it feels natural. And some even turn it into an art form. However, for a complete novice, taking those first steps may require some pointers about the mechanics - kissing is a behaviour where one needs to learn about the tools in order to use them well, in my opinion. I don't expect him to remember all the points. Just one or two will do for now.
srbbc Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Hi, please don't hate on me for posting this, but in order to understand my situation that underlies the main question in this topic, I need to give you all a bit of background information first. I am a 25 year old male who has never dated, never kissed and never had penetrative sex with a woman. In the last 10 years, I have had 10 opportunities with women to have sex and pursue relationships (they all showed legitimate interest, I've even had a homosexual male offer kissing lessons which I politely declined), but I always held back and withdrew due to having self esteem issues with my thin/slim body. I was always under the belief that you needed to have a muscular body to attract women, it was a be all end all if you weren't muscular in physique and thought I was inadequate because of my slim build. How wrong I was. Ten years have flown by and I now find myself in that "quarter life crisis" where I am basically 10 years behind the rest of the world in relationship experience and feel like that the window of opportunity to be able to attract a woman successfully into a loving relationship has all but closed. The thing is, despite my lack of relationship experience, there are other things going for me. I am widely considered by my friends and people I know to be a highly attractive, handsome looking guy, I have a great natural sense of humour and can make people laugh in regular conversation without even trying to intentionally make people laugh, I have multiple profession qualifications, steady career, am well off financially and have all other aspects of my life under control. But when it comes to love and relationships, its a major failure in my life, zilch experience, nothing, a complete disaster potentially that I may never be able to salvage completely. I am not so worried about the virginity issue because I'm confident I can overcome that with my other qualities as a person as a whole, and I have no time for those that judge me purely based on penetrative sexual experience and frankly, I deserve better, but when it comes to kissing (which i've never done), this is what i'm really worried about given that kissing seems to be one of the most important criteria when determining compatibility/sexual chemistry in a relationship and a lips smooch more often than not singlehandedly determines whether a relationship can proceed to the next level. Given my extremely late start to dating and relationships, I simply don't have the time to invest months into a woman only for her to instantly reject me purely on the basis of being a bad kisser. I need to find a way to be able to learn the art of kissing well enough so I can minimize my chance of rejection as much as possible so I am not perceived by woman to be socially akward and ultimately be rejected on the spot on that basis. So my quesiton is, given that I don't know any women in my circle of friends that would willingly volunteer to help me practice kissing, where can you learn/practice how to kiss (in-person practice, not just viewing videos on youtube) without risking yourself on the dating scene which i've had zero experience with and possibly being exposed as a bad kisser and being rejected on the spot? Are there classes/workshops where you can practice kissing? Can you pay escorts just to specifically engage in mouth kissing only without penetrative sex? Are there other options? Or is the only real option to grind it out the hard way, date as many women as possible with trial and error and keep getting rejected for being a bad kisser/lack of sexual chemistry until i've done it enough times to be good enough at it to finally successfully attract a woman into a loving relationship? Any advice (especially from males 25 or older who have gone through the same "Fear of the unknown") would be greatly appreciated. you can't learn. females despise 25 year olds without experices and theyd rather eat their own flesh than teach an inexperienced 25 year old how to kiss.
Pierre Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 you can't learn. females despise 25 year olds without experices and theyd rather eat their own flesh than teach an inexperienced 25 year old how to kiss. A man's ability to conquer a woman is not related to how well he kisses. Women pay attention to looks, intelligence, wit, charm, social status, personality, etc. A great kisser who is poor in the above arena will go nowhere with most women. A man with great attributes can always learn how to kiss by doing it. A loser will be loser despite being a great kisser. SO there is hope for you dude.
srbbc Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 A man's ability to conquer a woman is not related to how well he kisses. Women pay attention to looks, intelligence, wit, charm, social status, personality, etc. A great kisser who is poor in the above arena will go nowhere with most women. A man with great attributes can always learn how to kiss by doing it. A loser will be loser despite being a great kisser. SO there is hope for you dude. females say they don't want to be conquered but you're right. that's what they want. they want rich agressive charming males with a zillion friends. how can a male learn to kiss when no females will date him? there isn't hope.
Pierre Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 females say they don't want to be conquered but you're right. that's what they want. they want rich agressive charming males with a zillion friends. how can a male learn to kiss when no females will date him? there isn't hope. There are women for every man. You are looking out of your league.
Ninjainpajamas Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 If you're that good looking then I can't imagine how there wouldn't be a woman willing to make-out with you and practice some kissing lessons with you...especially if you're personable and a decent guy with your ***** together. It's just going to take practice, If you try kissing a certain way It may be awkward. You might kiss one girl one way and another completely different, it depends on chemistry, attraction, whether they're the passionate type or the peck peck type, there's a lot of factors I guess If you really think about and break it down with kissing but you can't over think it ultimately. Kissing a flowing kind of thing, kind of like the rhythm of waves. Sometimes you kiss slow or fast, sometimes you kiss soft or hard, you do whatever you "feel" in the moment in the connection with that person. You keep kissing interesting by being spontaneous yet getting on the same "wavelength" as the other person, but It's also like a man leading in a dance...your lips should take the lead and her lips will follow. However that's just me, I subscribe to a more of a "take the lead" type aggressive demeanor that's just part of who I am...I'm sure you could also just let the woman lead and she'll likely just kiss you a certain way and you'd go with her flow but that's not something I've done myself. I guess the general do not which should be common sense and is more common in younger guys but what the hell maybe someone doesn't know that's reading this topic other than yourself: - Don't slobber (very important!)all over her mouth/face, control your saliva - Don't jam your tongue down her throat and try to eat her face (had a girl do this to me once..still trying to shake it..I think she was a cannibal and trying to swallow my head!) - Don't be over eager and too aggressive like a dog, control your mojo yet don't be too shy, be confident even IF you aren't - Don't grab her face like a basketball and smush it into yours like in the movies, be gentle with her and maybe place on hand on the cheek/neck gently as not to choke her (unless she's into that!) - Don't lick her up her nose If you don't know where her mouth is by trying to french her with your eyes closed/in the dark - Don't stare at her for a long time when you feel like she wants to kiss, you just go for it...timing is important for mood - Don't surprise kiss her when she's not expecting it, like she's putting her bag down and you swing your face into hers and then start licking her like an icecream Alright...I'm done
Recommended Posts