jobaba Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 And once again, we leap into the sexual where there's been no reference to sexuality by either the opening post or myself. Anyone can setup fictitious scenarios but are they true reflections of what's being stated? Who said fictional? All of the above have happened to me with the exception of the woman mentioning shaving her privates.
PlumPrincess Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 I'm challenging our sterile attitudes of western nations where touch between people is so frowned upon. In other cultures, it's cool for friends to hold hands or put their arms around each other. In our culture, oh so taboo. In Arabic countries the guys hold hands. It's the most natural thing for them.
somedude81 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Women really need to think about how men can interpret their actions. IMO, all women should know that men are almost always DTF and are looking for signs that a woman is as well. A good thought process to have would be, "Odds are this guy wants to sleep with me. Should I put my head on his shoulder? How would he see that?"
threebyfate Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Actually, they are done by the subordinate members of the group or by females trying to get close to a mother's baby. They might add protein, although I wouldn't think it would be that much.Everyone's subordinate to the lead silverback. Every little bit of protein helps, especially if it's free! Who said fictional? All of the above have happened to me with the exception of the woman mentioning shaving her privates. And once again, we leap into the sexual where there's been no reference to sexuality by either the opening post or myself.Refer to my bolded quote. They're fictional as it relates to comparing apples to oranges. Shall I drag in examples of the mean average price of a kidney, on the black market?
threebyfate Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 In Arabic countries the guys hold hands. It's the most natural thing for them.Yes. In many Asiatic countries, men and women hold hands. It's also my understanding that Eastern Europeans aren't so touch averse. Ever wonder if touch sterility has to do with the prudish nature of a Christian influenced culture? Women really need to think about how men can interpret their actions. IMO, all women should know that men are almost always DTF and are looking for signs that a woman is as well. A good thought process to have would be, "Odds are this guy wants to sleep with me. Should I put my head on his shoulder? How would he see that?"Time and again on LS, I read about how women are responsible for male interpretation of action. Are all men little boys that are incapable of being responsible for themselves?
fortyninethousand322 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Time and again on LS, I read about how women are responsible for male interpretation of action. Are all men little boys that are incapable of being responsible for themselves? Well, I am for sure.
PlumPrincess Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Here is a situation: If a girl that you have known for years randomly gives you hugs and puts her head on your shoulder and similar, would you think she is interested beyond being friends? Even if you observe that she does it with others too? I just feel like guys don't get that flirting is mostly meaningless... That reminds me of a co-worker I once had. That happened years ago. He was sitting and I was standing next to him and he leaned his head on my side. I wonder if he was interested in me. I felt somewhat confused, because he was much younger (21) than I was (29?). When he left we didn't even say good-bye properly and when I sent him a message asking if we should talk, he never replied. Come to think of it, I'm so glad I'm not 21 anymore!
PlumPrincess Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) If you'd do it when you're single, and not do it when you're not, then there's an obvious sexual element to it. It's not innocent, it's not friendly. I was about to say that it's not true, that I'm flirting with one of my co-workers and although we're not interested in each, I wouldn't do that in front of his wife, but actually, it's just so obvious banter and we're really not interested in each other, it's possible that we tease each other in front of his wife as well if she is just a fun person like him. Edit: I'm actually not really sure if what we're doing can be called flirting. Edited April 30, 2012 by PlumPrincess
somedude81 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Time and again on LS, I read about how women are responsible for male interpretation of action. Are all men little boys that are incapable of being responsible for themselves? Uh, women should know that men want sex. It's not a matter of being responsible for ourselves. Whatever happened to girls being told that boys only want one thing? Don't blame the lion when you put your head in it's mouth.
fishtaco Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 All the same arguments could be made if a guy starts a thread about "Do women get innocent sexing?" But I keed, I keed... The fact is, different people perceive the same thing differently. So there are two ways to go about it without becoming a hypocrite... 1) respect everyone and be at your best 2) do your worst and expect everyone to take care of themselves. You can choose one or the other, but you can't flip flop between the two. I like #2. So dudes... reflect back what you get, be a mirror. If she flirts with you this much, flirt with her back the same amount. Whether you are interested in her or not is irrelevant. Sometimes you might get surprise innocent sexing out of it. Who knows? This is the least amount you should do... flirt with anyone that flirts with you. I'd even say actually, flirt with EVERYONE regardless, and as much as you can, but that's up to you. What about pulling the trigger and going for it? Well, you should do that if YOU are interested, who cares if she's flirting with you or not? Do it. Worst that can happen is you get turned down. So flirting isn't "connected" to interest or even if you'll ask her out. Flirting is just something that happens like ambient noise; it's just always there. Whether you will make your move or not should be an independent decision process. What this gets you is: 1) Equal footing 2) Practice your flirting 3) By having a woman hanging off of you in an ambiguous manner, it gets you more attention from other women This "innocent flirting" is a very useful tool. By not condemning women for doing it, you've just enabled this very same tool for yourself (assuming you don't want to be a hypocrite). So stop telling women what they should or should not do. You go out there and do the same, and you do it better. Oh, BTW, there's nothing innocent about "innocent flirting". For all practical purposes, it's just a nice excuse that could be applied retroactively to open a backdoor escape route. And yes, men can use that exact same excuse. No one but your own subconscious can tell whether it is real legitimate "innocent" flirting or not (that's right, sometime the conscious mind doesn't even realize it). It's just way too convenient. 2
threebyfate Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Uh, women should know that men want sex. It's not a matter of being responsible for ourselves. Whatever happened to girls being told that boys only want one thing? Don't blame the lion when you put your head in it's mouth.That sounds rapey. Oh, BTW, there's nothing innocent about "innocent flirting". For all practical purposes, it's just a nice excuse that could be applied retroactively to open a backdoor escape route. And yes, men can use that exact same excuse. No one but your own subconscious can tell whether it is real legitimate "innocent" flirting or not (that's right, sometime the conscious mind doesn't even realize it). It's just way too convenient.Pretty jaded fishtaco. An inner projection?
fortyninethousand322 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Of course, someone brings up rape in regards to a guy who rarely gets laid. Predictable. 2
jobaba Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Flirting (or coquetry) is a playful activity involving verbal communication as well as body language by one person to another, indicating an interest in a deeper relationship with the other person. Usually, flirting is therefore, either seriously or jokingly, intended to be interpreted as a romantic or sexual overture. A female flirt, especially a young one, is sometimes called a coquette; a male one, a womanizer or player. In other words, banter is not flirting. Putting your head on a guys shoulder is not flirting. Bringing your arms inward towards your chest and your shoulders up to your neck and smiling and giggling is flirting. If you're a woman (or man) and you do it without having interest in a person, you know.
somedude81 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 That sounds rapey. Way to go! Seems that I reached the limit of your logical processing. 1
threebyfate Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Flirting (or coquetry) is a playful activity involving verbal communication as well as body language by one person to another, indicating an interest in a deeper relationship with the other person. Usually, flirting is therefore, either seriously or jokingly, intended to be interpreted as a romantic or sexual overture. A female flirt, especially a young one, is sometimes called a coquette; a male one, a womanizer or player. In other words, banter is not flirting. Putting your head on a guys shoulder is not flirting. Bringing your arms inward towards your chest and your shoulders up to your neck and smiling and giggling is flirting. If you're a woman (or man) and you do it without having interest in a person, you know.This is exactly why people need to toss the body language reading when they're not socially attuned to other people. The auto-assumption that body language means "x", regardless of context. As an example, I twirl and play with my hair while thinking. The auto-assumption is that this means I'm interested. If so, I must be interested in my computer and work related documents.
threebyfate Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Way to go! Seems that I reached the limit of your logical processing.Well it does sound rapey, as if women are responsible for male thoughts where the male isn't responsible for balancing his thoughts. If I were to talk to you about making a cucumber salad, would it be my fault that some random guy immediately thinks about cucumber = sex? Balance somedude...
somedude81 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Well it does sound rapey, as if women are responsible for male thoughts where the male isn't responsible for balancing his thoughts. Thoughts do not equal actions. If I were to talk to you about making a cucumber salad, would it be my fault that some random guy immediately thinks about cucumber = sex?Unless your were making gestures or describing the cucumber like a penis or dildo, I don't know how anybody could come to the conclusion that sex was involved. Last time I checked, talking about cooking isn't considered flirting.
threebyfate Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Thoughts do not equal actions.For some yes, for others no. We both know this. Unless your were making gestures or describing the cucumber like a penis or dildo, I don't know how anybody could come to the conclusion that sex was involved. Last time I checked, talking about cooking isn't considered flirting.Let's test the logic. How does putting your head on someone's shoulder translate to sex? Is touching between genders so taboo that every touch translates to sex?
fishtaco Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Pretty jaded fishtaco. An inner projection? Sure, why not. Bottom line, it works. There is simply no way for the recipient to tell the difference. Like most people, my subconscious mind doesn't talk to my conscious mind much. So I wouldn't be truthful if I claim I truly know the reason why I do certain things. But at least I realize that about myself. So she's flirting, I'm flirting, innocent or not, we both get something out of it. I don't see the problem. Certainly better than telling women what they should or should not do. 2
ThaWholigan Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 This is exactly why people need to toss the body language reading when they're not socially attuned to other people. The auto-assumption that body language means "x", regardless of context. As an example, I twirl and play with my hair while thinking. The auto-assumption is that this means I'm interested. If so, I must be interested in my computer and work related documents. Body language manifests differently and means variety of things in different individuals. That much is true IMO. I think that the original topic has become focused more on why sexless men get the wrong end of the stick, as they end up victims of innocent flirting ( if you can call them that, that's a reach). 2
somedude81 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Let's test the logic. How does putting your head on someone's shoulder translate to sex? Is touching between genders so taboo that every touch translates to sex? It's a sign of intimate contact that isn't an accepted casual touch. Shaking hands is nothing more than a greeting. A quick touch on the shoulder or arm implies a very brief connection and it's enough for me to notice when women I don't know do it. Hugging is fine between family and good friends. But can also be murky because is it is intimate. I also rarely get hugs from women who are not family so I do gesture them as somewhat sexual when a non-family member girl gives me one. Everything beyond that is sets off alarms for me.
joystickd Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Yes. In many Asiatic countries, men and women hold hands. It's also my understanding that Eastern Europeans aren't so touch averse. Ever wonder if touch sterility has to do with the prudish nature of a Christian influenced culture? Time and again on LS, I read about how women are responsible for male interpretation of action. Are all men little boys that are incapable of being responsible for themselves? Anything said or done is open to interpretation it is the responsibility of the person giving the message to give a precise one not one that can be misinterpreted
fishtaco Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Body language manifests differently and means variety of things in different individuals. That much is true IMO. I think that the original topic has become focused more on why sexless men get the wrong end of the stick, as they end up victims of innocent flirting ( if you can call them that, that's a reach). Exactly. And the right way to fix this problem, IMHO, is to teach men not to be the "victim" of innocent flirting, as opposed to telling women they shouldn't innocently flirt, regardless of how much innocence or victimizing is actually involved. And again, IMHO, since there is no possible way to tell the difference, like you said, each different individual would have a different way of flirting, and that is already confusing by itself. In addition, we're talking about the ability to discern the fine line between innocent and non-innocent flirting, which the flirter herself may not even know -- this is simply an impossibility upon impossibility, period. So basically, sh*t or get off the pot. Be a celibate monk, or learn the game. Your choice. Remaining on the toilet while complaining your legs are going numb accomplishes nothing. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Personally I'm hoping I don't have to learn the game. I kind of want a woman to take the reigns of responsibility from me and force the issue. Of course, even if that happened, I think I'd have a Groucho Marx moment. You know "I'd never want to be part of a club that would have me as a member" sort of thing. Like what kind of screwed up person would want to date me?
ThaWholigan Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Personally I'm hoping I don't have to learn the game. I kind of want a woman to take the reigns of responsibility from me and force the issue. Of course, even if that happened, I think I'd have a Groucho Marx moment. You know "I'd never want to be part of a club that would have me as a member" sort of thing. Like what kind of screwed up person would want to date me? How unfortunate. You better learn to love the game . It's fun when you stop taking it seriously.
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