What Exes' Treatment Says About Me

[zengirl]

There appears to be some confusion about nerds and geeks, in a non-perjorative sense.

 

A nerd is someone who's usually focused on academically complex intellectual pursuits where a geek is focused on technology based pursuits, where he can list off large swaths of concrete facts but lacks the ability to focus on heavily theoretical concepts and theories.

 

From the sounds of it, verhrzn is talking about geeks, not nerds.

 

Says. . . you?

 

I'm not sure where people get these definitions. I say V's earlier definition of "nerding out" over something being what makes you a nerd is pretty sound. I would say neither of those are what we're talking about. We're talking about nerd, as a culture and self-identifier. We're talking about people who appreciate some pursuits of 'the mind' yes, but they don't have to be deep, complex, technological, etc. . . just things you can think a lot about and do indoors, basically.

 

I would also take issue with your pejorative use of 'geek.' When someone I know says, "tech geek" they don't typically mean "but lacks the ability to focus on heavily theoretical concepts and theories." In fact, most technological pursuits I've engaged in and seen engaged require heavily theoretical concepts and theories (i.e. some VERY abstract math), even if used in a concrete way. And most math geeks I know can also do very well with abstracts in philosophy, etc.

 

The reason "nerd culture" exists is because people have taken back the word from pejorative connotations. Granted, some nerds are like the a-holes on The Big Bang Theory, but not most I've met. Most are more like Jess on New Girl or Liz Lemon from 30 Rock or Travis from Cougar Town or Marshall on How I Met Your Mother or something. TV tends to get female nerds more right than male nerds. Nerding is just about having 'obscure' hobbies, like caring excessively about the Loch Ness Monster or something, though it generally requires a modicum of intelligence and wit to some degree (I'm not talking MENSA -- I'm talking higher level of discourse than Jersey Shore).

 

Anyway, I don't think V's problems stem from simply dating nerds. I date nerds. I hang with nerds. I wouldn't date EVERY nerd, by any means, and she could certainly date some crappy guys who are nerds, but plenty make excellent romantic partners and carry on wonderful relationships. My best friend married a guy who has a full Batman suit, and he's one of the best husbands I know, besides my own. (ETA: Said friend is probably below average in looks and is definitely a bit overweight (I think she wears a size 12 or 14) - she does have great style though - but she has a great personality, loads of self confidence, tons of friends, and a great life. So, the notion that weight or looks really matter all that much. . . eh, sure looks matter, but you don't have to be Felicia Day to land a great guy.)

Edited May 2, 2012 by zengirl

[threebyfate]

Says. . . you?

 

I'm not sure where people get these definitions. I say V's earlier definition of "nerding out" over something being what makes you a nerd is pretty sound. I would say neither of those are what we're talking about. We're talking about nerd, as a culture and self-identifier. We're talking about people who appreciate some pursuits of 'the mind' yes, but they don't have to be deep, complex, technological, etc. . . just things you can think a lot about and do indoors, basically.

 

I would also take issue with your pejorative use of 'geek.' When someone I know says, "tech geek" they don't typically mean "but lacks the ability to focus on heavily theoretical concepts and theories." In fact, most technological pursuits I've engaged in and seen engaged require heavily theoretical concepts and theories (i.e. some VERY abstract math), even if used in a concrete way. And most math geeks I know can also do very well with abstracts in philosophy, etc.

 

The reason "nerd culture" exists is because people have taken back the word from pejorative connotations. Granted, some nerds are like the a-holes on The Big Bang Theory, but not most I've met. Most are more like Jess on New Girl or Liz Lemon from 30 Rock or Travis from Cougar Town or Marshall on How I Met Your Mother or something. TV tends to get female nerds more right than male nerds. Nerding is just about having 'obscure' hobbies, like caring excessively about the Loch Ness Monster or something, though it generally requires a modicum of intelligence and wit to some degree (I'm not talking MENSA -- I'm talking higher level of discourse than Jersey Shore).

 

Anyway, I don't think V's problems stem from simply dating nerds. I date nerds. I hang with nerds. I wouldn't date EVERY nerd, by any means, and she could certainly date some crappy guys who are nerds, but plenty make excellent romantic partners and carry on wonderful relationships. My best friend married a guy who has a full Batman suit, and he's one of the best husbands I know, besides my own. (ETA: Said friend is probably below average in looks and is definitely a bit overweight (I think she wears a size 12 or 14) - she does have great style though - but she has a great personality, loads of self confidence, tons of friends, and a great life. So, the notion that weight or looks really matter all that much. . . eh, sure looks matter, but you don't have to be Felicia Day to land a great guy.)

Holy Crap, where did this come from? Just google it. It's a simple distinction that's well known.

 

No perjoratives were intended. Just a straight-forward distinction of the different cultures.

 

As far as verhrzn's concerned, her target audience for men are geeks where she too enjoys the geek culture. Not seeing any quantum mechanics or anything terribly academic in her interests or pursuits.

[joystickd]

Seconded with all this, which is why I haven't given up on nerds yet. Honestly, my trouble is finding single ones who want to date me... most of the ones I encounter at cons and things are either taken, or single and not interested. Heck, my last ex is a huge nerd, and he's slept with DOZENS of women.

 

Also yay Arkham Horror! Can I share my truly nerdy achievement that come July, I will have my first professional cosplay outfit? (Though I'm making the cloak myself.) Pretty stoked about it... though it's a skin-tight spandex leotard sooooo... not sure how that is gonna go...

 

I think DnD really depends on your DM and the group you're with. I've had fun DnD experiences, and I've had knaw-my-arm-off experiences.

I think you should expand your pool a little more. What qualities do you look for in a man?

[TheBigQuestion]

 

I mean, seriously, 4 out of 5 times. I guess the entire relationship was just worthless from their point of view, and they were all too glad to be rid of such an awful girlfriend?... (Looks and/OR personality being to blame, I guess.)

 

The only thing they really had in common was they were guys with nerdy interests, who were marginally-to-very successful with women, who I thought were nice guys.

 

Why is that 4 to 5 ratio such a big deal to you? You do realize that young people do this to each other all the time, as crappy as it is, don't you? Yes, people break up with each other and a lot of them don't hesitate to shack up with someone new at a dizzying pace. You really need to stop focusing so much on that particular aspect of your relationship failures.

 

Full disclosure: back in college, after my girlfriend and I had mutually broken up after the 3 years of dating, I took another girl home with me less than 48 hours later. Not because my ex was such a horrible person, but because I was sick of being in a relationship and it seemed like a good idea at the time. The point of sharing that story? **** happens in dating, and trying to examine irrational, emotional human actions through an analytical framework won't always be very productive.

[Els]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a catch-all, final definition for 'nerds' vs 'geeks' - it would be like trying to categorize the differences in nuance between LOL and ROFL! Even Urban Dictionary gives conflicting answers (though I found 'Nerd - December 10, 2010 Urban Word of the Day - One whose IQ exceeds his weight' pretty funny ).I did always think of nerds in the academic sense (people who devote their lives to the pursuit of certain academic fields that most other people would shudder at, such as nuclear physics, quantum mechanics, artificial intelligence, etc), and geeks in the hobbies/tech sense (games, anime, cons, etc), but I'm not certain how accurate that is. I'm sure the two can overlap - I've always thought of myself as both, at least.

 

Though when V talks about nerds/geeks, I'm pretty certain she means the gamer/anime/whatever-other-hobby-they-are-passionate-about type, so perhaps those are the ones worth discussing here?

 

I don't think it's fair to infer anything about those people and their relations with women in general. The stereotype is likely to apply to that Starcraft professional player who practices 12 hours a day, or that WoW addict who spends upwards of 100 hours/week in the game. And those are the people that garner the most interest and attention in the media. But there are a whole lot of us who lie closer to the middle of the spectrum, and whose only difference with 'common society' is that we have hobbies that used to be perceived as 'different'. Things are changing now, though. I know far, far more men who are into gaming than who are into hunting and fishing and camping.

 

And therein lies the issue, I think - V views the world as a dichotomy between 'geeks' and 'non-geeks'. Part of 'geek elitism' is shunning the 'casual geek' - a person who enjoys many hobbies, including some geeky ones - because he 'doesn't deserve to be part of us'. But that's just dumb, IMO. The world isn't divided into 'geeks' and 'hunters and fishers'. There are people who enjoy a game of Team Fortress and then go to the bars or mall with their mates. There are people who play games, AND a few musical instruments, and read literature in their spare time. So I really don't think that broadening your horizons necessarily means the 'hunter and fisher' type, V!

 

Also, gratz on the cosplay. I've been to a few, but not dressed up myself. I'm sure you'll have lots of fun!

[Sugarkane]

So what's the OP supposed to do? Start dating hermits or someone they're not remotely attracted too? Just so the next person won't leave?

And regards to exes should the OP just be a doormat and continue contact, even with their lame breakup excuses?

[Sugarkane]

I'm also sick to death with people talking about people pickers. Most people don't seem like a total Ahole at first.

[zengirl]

Holy Crap, where did this come from? Just google it. It's a simple distinction that's well known.

 

No perjoratives were intended. Just a straight-forward distinction of the different cultures.

 

As far as verhrzn's concerned, her target audience for men are geeks where she too enjoys the geek culture. Not seeing any quantum mechanics or anything terribly academic in her interests or pursuits.

 

My point is there is no definition like this that is accepted by all. I don't have to google nerd culture -- I'm a nerd, the sites associated with nerd and geek culture I frequent, etc. The idea that there is some firm distinction between nerd and geek that everyone can agree on is a myth.

 

"Nerd" does not = academic to most people who use the word after HS.

 

Anyway, you Google it. Part of the wiki definition of "Geek" is basically the opposite of what you said and involves relating complex academic subjects to everyday things (i.e. relating physics to baking a cake). Honestly, there is no distinction or clear definition. All I've ever seen with the two words is a regional preference --- in my region, the word "geek" is almost never used --- and the two words are used interchangeably.

 

ftr, I've only ever seen non-nerds/geeks try to make a distinction between the two words, generally to figure out which they could use pejoratively.

 

I don't think it's fair to infer anything about those people and their relations with women in general. The stereotype is likely to apply to that Starcraft professional player who practices 12 hours a day, or that WoW addict who spends upwards of 100 hours/week in the game. And those are the people that garner the most interest and attention in the media. But there are a whole lot of us who lie closer to the middle of the spectrum, and whose only difference with 'common society' is that we have hobbies that used to be perceived as 'different'. Things are changing now, though. I know far, far more men who are into gaming than who are into hunting and fishing and camping.

 

Right, this is my experience as well.

 

And therein lies the issue, I think - V views the world as a dichotomy between 'geeks' and 'non-geeks'. Part of 'geek elitism' is shunning the 'casual geek' - a person who enjoys many hobbies, including some geeky ones - because he 'doesn't deserve to be part of us'. But that's just dumb, IMO. The world isn't divided into 'geeks' and 'hunters and fishers'. There are people who enjoy a game of Team Fortress and then go to the bars or mall with their mates. There are people who play games, AND a few musical instruments, and read literature in their spare time. So I really don't think that broadening your horizons necessarily means the 'hunter and fisher' type, V!

 

I think this is part of it. I mean, this thread obviously shows me that the world is divided into nerds and people who still, in their adult years, continue to disdain nerds. To varying degrees, I've seen that with 2 posters in just this page of that thread. So, there are people who can't appreciate nerdy habits and actively degrade them, especially when not directly connected to academic pursuits. But there are also nerds who react to this and actively degrade non-nerds out of hand. I would say I'm uninterested in being around any of those people. Generally speaking, if someone can't "nerd out" about something, I'm probably not able to form a meaningful social connection with them (acquaintance or something, sure) because they probably have some disdain for nerd culture or some misunderstanding about what it is and I'd feel boxed in. I'd also feel boxed in by the super-nerds who make it into an elitist thing.

 

So, I can see where V is coming from to a degree. I have gotten the impression she feels the need to prove herself to the super nerd types (which is silly), but I've never gotten the impression that she was limiting herself to ONLY people who were ONLY nerdy and had no other aspects.

 

V, as to the way your exes treated you after you dated, for people in your age range, that sounds about normal - basically acting like/pretending you never dated is the way many young people try to be friends/friendly/make it not awkward. I don't know that it actually works much of the time, but I don't think it reflects on you in any particular way.

[RiverRunning]

Block your exes. I don't think that's childish or necessarily about NOT wanting contact with them - in some cases it's simply out of sight, out of mind. If you don't have to see it, then you shouldn't have to. I've found that after blocking mine for a while, I one day realize I haven't seen/heard from them in ages. And then...I simply don't care to unblock and check in on them.

 

One of my exes still parades around talking about what a bitch I was to him (you know, never expecting him to pay for dates, carting his butt to school/work/my house/friends' houses free of charge while he freely insulted or critiqued my looks and personality...WHAT A HORRIBLE GIRLFRIEND!). I don't care - I've considered the source.

 

Did you shop for all of your boyfriends in the same social circle, OP? I've seen some girls do that. If all of the guys are friendly, and especially if they're very close, it's probably because they're at least somewhat similar. Had a friend who broke up with her boyfriend and ran to his best friend, then was shocked when he turned out to be very similar to her ex-boyfriend. There was nothing wrong with her - she was just fishing in the wrong pond!

[verhrzn]

So, I can see where V is coming from to a degree. I have gotten the impression she feels the need to prove herself to the super nerd types (which is silly), but I've never gotten the impression that she was limiting herself to ONLY people who were ONLY nerdy and had no other aspects.

 

Oh exactly. Sorry Els, if I gave the impression I will date only the super nerds. I'm a casual nerd myself, and that's what I would like to have; a guy who has some nerdy hobbies, but can also enjoy literature, or likes going to the gym once in a while, or enjoys bike riding on the weekends or something for fun.

 

I know the world isn't divided into "nerds" and "non-nerds"... but when I'm online, I see so many guys who list only non-nerd hobbies in their profiles. Now, maybe they're hiding their nerdy light under a basket, because they think girls "don't like that stuff," but that's a big gamble to take when we have nothing else in common.

 

V, as to the way your exes treated you after you dated, for people in your age range, that sounds about normal - basically acting like/pretending you never dated is the way many young people try to be friends/friendly/make it not awkward. I don't know that it actually works much of the time, but I don't think it reflects on you in any particular way.

 

It's more the "they immediately start banging someone else." Also, isn't ignoring someone you dated rather immature for people in their late twenties and early thirties? I mean, I'm 27 in June, and my last ex is 31. Not being able to handle the awkwardness of exes seems kind of like an early college phase, not something grown-a** adults should be doing.

 

But more than that... it's that they're so darn happy without me. Like I'm some horrible disease they've been cured of. I know most relationships fail, but when all of yours fail because the guy is ecstatic to be rid of you, what does that say about you?...

[Els]

I know the world isn't divided into "nerds" and "non-nerds"... but when I'm online, I see so many guys who list only non-nerd hobbies in their profiles. Now, maybe they're hiding their nerdy light under a basket, because they think girls "don't like that stuff," but that's a big gamble to take when we have nothing else in common.

 

That sounds fair enough. I don't think I'd be interested in a guy with whom I have NOTHING in common either - my point was just that you don't need to have 'everything' in common. Both being nerds isn't really a guarantee - for instance, the bf lost interest in one of the games we play together, and I lost interest in another one, so this is one of those times when we don't game together all that much. Hobbies ebb and flow.

 

How many % of men that you know, do you think you would have any interests in common with?

 

But more than that... it's that they're so darn happy without me. Like I'm some horrible disease they've been cured of. I know most relationships fail, but when all of yours fail because the guy is ecstatic to be rid of you, what does that say about you?...

 

I don't understand why you keep making assumptions about others' happiness and the reason for such.

[verhrzn]

That sounds fair enough. I don't think I'd be interested in a guy with whom I have NOTHING in common either - my point was just that you don't need to have 'everything' in common. Both being nerds isn't really a guarantee - for instance, the bf lost interest in one of the games we play together, and I lost interest in another one, so this is one of those times when we don't game together all that much. Hobbies ebb and flow.

 

How many % of men that you know, do you think you would have any interests in common with?

 

Oh, sure, and having EVERYTHING in common isn't fun. One of my favorite parts of a relationship is discovering new things through my boyfriend. One guy introduced me to jazz and blues guitar music. I bonded with another over our marching band experiences. (Nerd in another way?) Heck, even introducing each other to new nerdy stuff is fun; I got my last ex into My Little Ponies, and he got me into reading Deadpool comics.

 

Percent of men I know in real life? Oh probably about 80%, since I frequent the nerdy circles. Most of them are engaged/married. I have some single nerdy male friends, but they enjoy "playing the field" and have never been interested in dating me.

 

If you meant in the general population, probably only about 30% I'd guesstimate. I've found that most non-nerdy guys (as in, guys who can't "nerd out" as Zengirl puts it) find me... odd. Even if I could get past the guy not being particularly nerdy, I'm not sure most non-nerdy guys can get past me being SO nerdy.

 

I don't understand why you keep making assumptions about others' happiness and the reason for such.

 

Cause I see em writing on friends' walls (I sadly can't hide that without blocking them all together; done it before, and been labeled a "drama queen" for doing so, so trying to avoid that) or just out and about. Or the comments and behaviors that mutual friends tell me about.

[stillafool]

 

 

It's more the "they immediately start banging someone else." Also, isn't ignoring someone you dated rather immature for people in their late twenties and early thirties? I mean, I'm 27 in June, and my last ex is 31. Not being able to handle the awkwardness of exes seems kind of like an early college phase, not something grown-a** adults should be doing.

 

 

Not at all. For me, when it's over, it's over. Why would someone need to stay in touch with their exes? Who has time? If you are involved in a new relationship you want to give your time to them, plus family, friends and work. Also you may not want to be reminded of the past.

[verhrzn]

Not at all. For me, when it's over, it's over. Why would someone need to stay in touch with their exes? Who has time? If you are involved in a new relationship you want to give your time to them, plus family, friends and work. Also you may not want to be reminded of the past.

 

The point was more, when they move on so quickly, and are so happy about doing so.

[Els]

Oh, sure, and having EVERYTHING in common isn't fun. One of my favorite parts of a relationship is discovering new things through my boyfriend. One guy introduced me to jazz and blues guitar music. I bonded with another over our marching band experiences. (Nerd in another way?) Heck, even introducing each other to new nerdy stuff is fun; I got my last ex into My Little Ponies, and he got me into reading Deadpool comics.

 

Percent of men I know in real life? Oh probably about 80%, since I frequent the nerdy circles. Most of them are engaged/married. I have some single nerdy male friends, but they enjoy "playing the field" and have never been interested in dating me.

 

If you meant in the general population, probably only about 30% I'd guesstimate. I've found that most non-nerdy guys (as in, guys who can't "nerd out" as Zengirl puts it) find me... odd. Even if I could get past the guy not being particularly nerdy, I'm not sure most non-nerdy guys can get past me being SO nerdy.

 

Hrmm. Well, you'll have the chance to get to know people from 'other' geek circles, when you go to cosplays and cons and such. If a geek is what you want, and your current circle clearly is not doing it for you, gotta go out there and meet more of 'em!

 

I do think a word of caution is needed that while there are plenty of mature, balanced geeks who just happen to have geeky hobbies, there really also are plenty of 'children in disguise' who play games and such because they just can't grow up and get a grip on life (thus also failing in their career, social relationships, etc). Those are the ones, I think, who are the most prone to having almost purely physical requirements for a woman, as well as gravitating towards women with low self-esteem because they don't dare to try with anyone with decent self-esteem. Be on the watch for those.

 

 

Cause I see em writing on friends' walls (I sadly can't hide that without blocking them all together; done it before, and been labeled a "drama queen" for doing so, so trying to avoid that) or just out and about. Or the comments and behaviors that mutual friends tell me about.

 

You can turn off updates from people without defriending or blocking them.

[Els]

I'm also sick to death with people talking about people pickers. Most people don't seem like a total Ahole at first.

 

Erm, duh?

 

If they did, do you think there would be any NEED to improve one's 'people-picker'? The term isn't literal, obviously, it means being observant and noticing things about people that may be clues to parts of their personality, mindsets or history. Any 5-year-old can tell that an obvious A-hole is an A-hole. Experience and practice makes up the rest.

[RiverRunning]

I think that the fact that they're so happy after a break-up doesn't say anything about you, OP. I think it's VERY common for people fresh out of a break-up, if the relationship wasn't working, to suddenly be excited about ALL their options - total freedom again, I can date and sleep with whoever I want! That says nothing about you. And the fact that break-ups happen don't mean that the people involved are horrible or bad people.

 

I know my first ex hated me and was suddenly 'very happy' to be single (he started dating someone else like 2 weeks after our break-up)...because I told him straight-up why I was leaving him: he was a jerk who wanted me to do everything for him, drive him everywhere and pay his way everywhere. HE wanted to bitch about how I wasn't spontaneous enough, etc. He'd trash me to his friends. He started pressuring me to lose weight and to go running, and if I wouldn't do it, he would explode at me.

 

Well, he was a jerk and I'm confident in that. If he's happy, he's happy. It no longer has ANYTHING to do with me. It was hard at first seeing him move on first. It was very hard the first few times I ran into him with his girlfriend when I was single (we went to college together).

 

I'll never forget chit-chatting with a girl at the sink in the university bathrooms...I walked out first and saw my ex standing right there. I had been talking to his new girlfriend! I just walked away as quickly as I could.

 

Your paths have diverged now, OP. I think it would do you well to make a list of possible reasons that a guy might leave, along with why he might feel happy after a break-up. Sure, there are possible reasons like, "Something is wrong with me" or "I'm a horrible girlfriend." There's also, "He's flighty," "He's just happy to have freedom," etc. - things that have NOTHING to do with you.

[zengirl]

I know the world isn't divided into "nerds" and "non-nerds"... but when I'm online, I see so many guys who list only non-nerd hobbies in their profiles. Now, maybe they're hiding their nerdy light under a basket, because they think girls "don't like that stuff," but that's a big gamble to take when we have nothing else in common.

 

Well, it depends how well you know them / where you see them. Through OLD, it was easy to spot someone with nerdy hobbies as almost no one hides that on there. In person? You have to talk to them first. I find it easy to spot people I'd like to talk to, but many people don't. I'm not sure how to "teach" that skill. Anyway, on OKC, I saw almost exclusively guys with at least some nerdy habits, but I used the % match marker heavily.

 

It's more the "they immediately start banging someone else." Also, isn't ignoring someone you dated rather immature for people in their late twenties and early thirties? I mean, I'm 27 in June, and my last ex is 31. Not being able to handle the awkwardness of exes seems kind of like an early college phase, not something grown-a** adults should be doing.

 

It sounds immature for that age, yes (was he 31 when he did that?) or anyone over 25, I'd say, but perhaps you select immature men. That could be part of the issue. I don't think "Nerds are immature" really sums it up because plenty of non-nerds are immature too and plenty of nerds are perfectly mature about relationships. At any rate, mostly with exes in your social circle, it's hard -- if the breakup is sudden and not mutual, you either don't speak for a bit (with your friends respecting that) and then ease into friendship (the best), you don't speak at all EVER and your friends tiptoe around the R forever and/or get divided and/or you make new friends, etc, or you pretend it never really happened and be mildly friendly, despite the awkwardness. The former is the best, but a lot of people can't pull it off. Generally speaking, dating too deeply in one's social circle is more risky than otherwise for that reason, IME.

 

But more than that... it's that they're so darn happy without me. Like I'm some horrible disease they've been cured of. I know most relationships fail, but when all of yours fail because the guy is ecstatic to be rid of you, what does that say about you?...

 

This is an assumption. I will say someone who's been planning to break up with someone generally feels a weight lifted when they do so (even if they are sad). . . but that has nothing to do with you, as a person. It's just a natural break up stage. Also, most people get over break ups by acting happy, especially if they made the choice to dump, whether they are happy or not.

[ohmygoshistalk]

verhrzn, sorry if i misspelled your name , but we cant please everybody. looks or beauty is also subjective.

 

changing your mindset will help, dont ever settle for less and dont ever let anyone tell you that you dont deserve what you want.

 

these guys are the problem and not you, how they treat you in the end is what counts - it shows them for what they are ..vapid and empty. not worth your time.