Negative Nancy Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 And it's been disputed over, and over, and over again. Different people have different metabolisms. You can reset your "balance" point. You can't make naturally thin people overweight. this is a good point. if there are people who can eat whatever they want without gaining weight (and nobody really here wants to argue that those people exist), why is it so hard for people to believe that there are people who just can't lose weight?
Radu Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 OH.... my god. Your seriously ignorant, you pepole telling V to lose weight... YOUR part of the reason people become anorexic. You go around telling women who are NATURALLY BMI 24, or who are NATURALLY not thin or small enough looking, that they should lsoe WEIGHT. SOME people really ARE naturally BMI 24! They are NOT FAT. It is just their natural body shape!!!!!!!!! FAT, is when a person is not active: eats terribly: and is unhealthily overweight. FAT is NOT: a women who has a large build and a slow metabolism, but workso ut daily and eats hardly anything, and eats healthily. THAT is called a " large build" or " a thick body type" EVEN if they work out 5 days a week, and eat healthily, and eat the right amount of calories...... All the evidence suggests that some peope are at their healthiest at BMI 24 or above. They are just one of these things: big boned andor/ slow metabolism. The best girls like us ( myself, V, MOST average sized girls) can do, who fall within the healthy BMI range, is work out most days for half an hour or more, try different types of exercises, make healthy choices 80% of the time. Some guys will never want us because we are not thin. Big deal. If we have the right personality and are not totally ugly and off putting, we shall find a guy who loves us for us. My mom is like this. Her mom (my grandma) harassed her when she was 10-11 about being 'big' and 'fat' even though she cooked very fatty foods. The result, she starved herself to death for a few months untill she fell down in the middle of the road. She was rushed to the hospital, they drew blood and it went out foamy. o.0 Saying stuff like this to ppl is devastating.
Radu Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 It is a shame, because V has enough intelligence, and has the looks to get a guy that adores her - if only she had the right attitude. It took me years to change my attitude, years to find out what was missing in me - turns out, I was focusing too much on dieting and being thin, and not enough on being a wonderfuly positive, happy person... Now, I am very curvy and no longer thin, but I am so positive and nice, I have no trouble getting guys to like me. ... Once and for all.... WHAT will it take to totally change her attitude!?!?!?!?!?!?! ...... she is better than what people have told her she is, if she believes in herself. Many guys actually give negative points to girls when they are just too focused on appearances. Girls, we can tell. We know you don't really need to arrange yourself every 5min, we see you checking your teeth in that car window and we know you actually 'eat' ... not the eating you do on dates. If he makes a ****ty comment about 'fat' just move on. Personality is key.
phineas Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) My money is on your people-picker and the sort of guy that you attract with a defeatist, negative, and low-self-esteemed attitude. I genuinely am not saying this to be mean. But when a person consistently responds to and processes negative input far more than the positive, it will naturally lead them to a certain sort of partner. Yep. I attract these types of women because they think they want a guy who won't be like their ex's and drop them when something new comes around. But, it almost always results in me wasting my time because they just aren't attracted to someone who doesn't make them feel like their not good enough. edit: oh, never mind. I see the thread has gone WTF?!?!? LOL! Edited May 1, 2012 by phineas
Mrlonelyone Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) First of all Leigh. A BMI of 24 is not "thin" that is what the Centers for disease control consideres healthy weight. As for how many more Kari Byron like girls I have dated. Consider the following. I am a transgender woman who is mostly into men. I have dated a couple dozen seriously, and probably just bangged a hundred or so. They were all geeky about something. Even with that being true. I have dated five women in my life, had sex with two or three of them. All of whom were geeky about something or full blown nerds. Remember people only come to LS when they have problems or to give advice. That does not represent the totality of their romantic experiences. My advice to Verhzn would work if she would try it. She seems to want to be told how she can find a toned tanned pumped male model while she does not have to demonstrate any self care or have any self esteem. Yep. I attract these types of women because they think they want a guy who won't be like their ex's and drop them when something new comes around. But, it almost always results in me wasting my time because they just aren't attracted to someone who doesn't make them feel like their not good enough. Exactly if the guy she gets is not up to GQ standards someone like V may well just destroy the relationship because he isn't hot enough (Maybe one of her 5 RL/ships was that way.) All the while complaining that "no one will accept me for who I really am? Men are pigs". When really meaning "No one hot enough will accept me for who I really am." PS: I know people who are fat and happy. People who have always been big. They don't have the kind of problems with relationships V describes. Edited May 1, 2012 by Mrlonelyone
Mrlonelyone Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 this is a good point. if there are people who can eat whatever they want without gaining weight (and nobody really here wants to argue that those people exist), why is it so hard for people to believe that there are people who just can't lose weight? That's a myth. The BBC did a documentary that proved it. Barring a thyroid problem that's just false.
Negative Nancy Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 She seems to want to be told how she can find a toned tanned pumped male model that's not what she's been saying at all. stop putting words in people's mouths.
Leigh 87 Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 Um, BMI of 24 is not THIN, I never said it was.. but, ont larger or more muscular body types on a women, it LOOKS fit, NOT fat or over weight. A women with a small build and petite bones can look fat at BMI 22, if she is naturally a BMI of 18 - 21. If she does not work out, eats cr@p, and is over her healthy weight or at the high end of her range, she will look flabby, even though she is not a large women in terms of SIZE. A women with a larger build, like me, can look thin next to a petite women who is flaby for their build - I will look firmer and fitter, but my legs, arms and body will still be larger than the petite women, who has smaller joints, legs size, and is still flabbier than me. V is short, so obviusly has a cuddly build, but I think being short is really cute! It means she is still a petite weight compared to most women, and small and can be thrown around!
stillafool Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 This is kind of a branch-off of the "should exes be friends?" thread from yesterday. Lately I've been trying to do some hard digging into my brain to figure out why I have the dating hang-ups that I do. (Yes, yes, get therapy; saving up for it, trying to do some homework in the meantime.) I think it's pretty obvious I'm stuck on my exes; more specifically, stuck on the way they treated me after the break-up. I feel like, until I can understand why this happened, and how to prevent it in the future, I'm just going to either stay stuck and bitter, or repeat the same mistakes. Of the 5 boyfriends I've had, 4 of them after breaking up with me, immediately dropped me from their lives and either immediately or within a few weeks were dating another girl. These were not situations of the guy having to flee because I was such a crazy person. They didn't de-friend me or send a restraining order against me. In fact, they kind of acted like we had never dated in the first place. It was like a switch; one day we were a romantic couple, the next day I was some casual friend. Whenever I'd run into them at parties, they'd treat me as if I was, well, anybody else. And I'd dated all of these guys upwards of 6 months. With my latest ex, when we broke up, he went into a celebratory mood. I cut him off No Contact and hide myself from him on FB; however, I still saw things he said when he wrote on mutual friends' walls. And he wrote on their walls all the freaking time, all with this happy "My life is so great!" tone. He'd go on about what awesome plans he had, how he had "so much!" to do he couldn't decide... and I found out he'd started sleeping with another girl, inside of a week of being broken up. (PS: I didn't block him because I didn't want to seem like a drama queen. My friends have often yelled at me for "over-reacting" to a break-up, like cutting the guy out and being sad.) I understand that when you're the break-uper, you've probably already processed your feelings about that person, and are more prepared than the break-upee to move on. But what does it say about me, and my relationships, that the guy immediately moves on? That he still "wants to be friends," but acts like we never dated at all? In each of these relationships, more over, it wasn't as if there was some obvious fundamental incompatibility. Every single one just said they'd stopped seeing me in a romantic way. They said I was a perfectly fine girlfriend, but they just "didn't feel it" anymore. I think that means they started seeing me as ugly... but I never gained any weight (stayed the same size), I kept wearing make-up and "good" clothes (no PJ's or sweats), or acting any differently. What does it all mean, that this is happening over and over again? How do I stop it from happening in the future? And how do I get over the fact that it seems like, each of my guys didn't care at all for me? That they dated me and forgot me as easy as changing a pair of shoes? PS: There is one ex that didn't immediately forget me when we broke-up. He just hates me with a passion and consistently tells people how fantastic it is that I'm gone. So, progress? To be honest with you the above is normal behavior for young men. I've never ended a relationship (either he broke up or I broke up) where the guy didn't have another girl within a week or two. That's what young people do. It isn't about your looks. Try not to spend time thinking about your past and look to your future.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 Um, BMI of 24 is not THIN, I never said it was.. but, ont larger or more muscular body types on a women, it LOOKS fit, NOT fat or over weight. A women with a small build and petite bones can look fat at BMI 22, if she is naturally a BMI of 18 - 21. If she does not work out, eats cr@p, and is over her healthy weight or at the high end of her range, she will look flabby, even though she is not a large women in terms of SIZE. A women with a larger build, like me, can look thin next to a petite women who is flaby for their build - I will look firmer and fitter, but my legs, arms and body will still be larger than the petite women, who has smaller joints, legs size, and is still flabbier than me. V is short, so obviusly has a cuddly build, but I think being short is really cute! It means she is still a petite weight compared to most women, and small and can be thrown around! I know BMI has limitations when it comes to muscle mass and such. It does not differentiate between muscle and fat. That said. Come on... do you really think that's the problem. 2/3rds of British adults are overweight. As for the USA. FASTSTATS - Overweight Prevalence Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9% (2007-2008) Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4% (2007-2008) About the same number in the USA. Odds are that only 1/3 of "muscular" overweight people truly are. The other 2/3 have their muscle under a protective layer of fat.
Els Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 I know BMI has limitations when it comes to muscle mass and such. It does not differentiate between muscle and fat. That said. Come on... do you really think that's the problem. 2/3rds of British adults are overweight. As for the USA. FASTSTATS - Overweight Prevalence About the same number in the USA. Odds are that only 1/3 of "muscular" overweight people truly are. The other 2/3 have their muscle under a protective layer of fat. Correct. Where you are really off-base, is that statistics always define 'medically overweight' as overweight, ie a BMI of 25 and above. V, whom you have been urging tirelessly to lose weight, has a BMI of about 22-23, IIRC. So what was the entire spiel about, again? As for how many more Kari Byron like girls I have dated. Consider the following. I am a transgender woman who is mostly into men. I have dated a couple dozen seriously, and probably just bangged a hundred or so. They were all geeky about something. Even with that being true. I have dated five women in my life, had sex with two or three of them. All of whom were geeky about something or full blown nerds. Remember people only come to LS when they have problems or to give advice. That does not represent the totality of their romantic experiences. Then why are you acting like the absolute authority on what 'geeky men' 'really want' and bashing the OP for not fulfilling that fantasy? My advice to Verhzn would work if she would try it. She seems to want to be told how she can find a toned tanned pumped male model while she does not have to demonstrate any self care or have any self esteem. Incorrect. The OP has repeatedly said that she only wishes the man to be single and not unemployed. Exactly if the guy she gets is not up to GQ standards someone like V may well just destroy the relationship because he isn't hot enough (Maybe one of her 5 RL/ships was that way.) All the while complaining that "no one will accept me for who I really am? Men are pigs". When really meaning "No one hot enough will accept me for who I really am." She claims they all broke up with her, and some of them were balding and overweight. PS: I know people who are fat and happy. People who have always been big. They don't have the kind of problems with relationships V describes. This, I agree with.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 She describes herself as fat. I was never told her height or weight. Can you link me to the post where she gives them? Truthfully.
Els Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 She is 5'1" and about 125-130 lbs, IIRC. Confirm that with her if you wish. She describes herself as fat because she has low self-esteem (which is really not helped by bashing).
Eternal Sunshine Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 There is no scientific evidence that people's metabolisms are significantly different. It's all a myth created so that people can feel better about being overweight. Also, metabolism slows down by only 2% for every 10 years we age, so getting older is also not an excuse for getting fatter. 1
zengirl Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 She is 5'1" and about 125-130 lbs, IIRC. Confirm that with her if you wish. She describes herself as fat because she has low self-esteem (which is really not helped by bashing). I've also seen a picture, and she is not fat. Re: All the conversation about Felicia Day. In places where Felicia Day is not Hollywood-ified (i.e. look at the first season of The Guild), I wouldn't consider Day that much more attractive than V. She's a different kind of attractive -- waify and so forth, and that goes with the persona she puts forth -- but I'd actually say that if V looks anything like her picture (which she posted when she first came here) then there are many men who'd find her more attractive than Felicia Day (sans Hollywood makeover) because they aren't particularly into waifs. Perhaps, V, you find the guys who are really into waifs? And since you're not a waif, they make you feel fat and unattractive, when really you are not - you just don't have a Kate Moss/Felicia Day type body. I've had that body type before for many years, but I don't really have that now either, and I sometimes feel fat, despite the lack of actual fatness on me. I have to say that a bit curvier and heavier than waif size, men seem to like me better (overall), so I think the myth that all or even most men prefer waifs is just that: a myth. One issue people often have: If the persona you're putting forth (i.e. who you are) does not match up with your looks, you'll have an issue. One reason Felicia Day is so attractive is that her waify, pale, sort of awkwardly pretty looks mesh very well with her intelligent-geeky-awkwardly cute persona. Take someone who talks like Jessica Simpson or Megan Fox and give them Felicia Day's body, and no one would be drooling over her. Also take someone who seems very assertive/aggressive and strong and give them Felicia Day's body, and she's not going to achieve the same level of fandom. Just like if, say, Jessica Alba or Jennifer Garner (who have a more aggressive look & persona) were to play characters like Felicia Day does or appear to have that persona, it wouldn't work for them.
Author verhrzn Posted May 1, 2012 Author Posted May 1, 2012 Perhaps, V, you find the guys who are really into waifs? And since you're not a waif, they make you feel fat and unattractive, when really you are not - you just don't have a Kate Moss/Felicia Day type body. I've had that body type before for many years, but I don't really have that now either, and I sometimes feel fat, despite the lack of actual fatness on me. I have to say that a bit curvier and heavier than waif size, men seem to like me better (overall), so I think the myth that all or even most men prefer waifs is just that: a myth. One issue people often have: If the persona you're putting forth (i.e. who you are) does not match up with your looks, you'll have an issue. One reason Felicia Day is so attractive is that her waify, pale, sort of awkwardly pretty looks mesh very well with her intelligent-geeky-awkwardly cute persona. Take someone who talks like Jessica Simpson or Megan Fox and give them Felicia Day's body, and no one would be drooling over her. Also take someone who seems very assertive/aggressive and strong and give them Felicia Day's body, and she's not going to achieve the same level of fandom. Just like if, say, Jessica Alba or Jennifer Garner (who have a more aggressive look & persona) were to play characters like Felicia Day does or appear to have that persona, it wouldn't work for them. That makes sense. I'm not sure if I date guys who are into waifs... most of the guys I date seem to have huge things for redheads. A few of them REALLY like that Flo from Esurance (can't explain that one...) So going by my looks, what should my persona be?...
zengirl Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 There is no scientific evidence that people's metabolisms are significantly different. It's all a myth created so that people can feel better about being overweight. Also, metabolism slows down by only 2% for every 10 years we age, so getting older is also not an excuse for getting fatter. Huh? There's a TON of medical evidence on metabolic differences. You are right that the average decline for age is only slight -- I think you're slightly off on the numbers -- but some people do have (medically measurable) higher rates of declines. We can even pinpoint some of the genetic material responsible for metabolic rates, etc, and metabolism relates to a hell of a lot more than weight, medically speaking!
zengirl Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 That makes sense. I'm not sure if I date guys who are into waifs... most of the guys I date seem to have huge things for redheads. A few of them REALLY like that Flo from Esurance (can't explain that one...) So going by my looks, what should my persona be?... Since you don't have to try to attract the masses, it's not as important to focus on changing your persona --- though you do want to fit your bait to who you want to hook. Therefore, it's a combo of putting together looks/persona with who you want to be in a R and who you want to attract for an R and the dynamics you want the R to have. The persona also has to be mostly in line with who you are (or it won't work), but we can choose to present who we are in a myriad of ways, generally. So, you're looking at people-picker and presentation. So, first we'd need to establish who you want to attract. In order to attract the many guys I'd recommend someone date (and my tastes aren't everyones), I would say that you would need to be less combative, less competitive about interests, and more positive. Flo is a good example for that actually! She's warm, positive (downright ridiculously so), a wee bit sassy but in a non-intimidating way, mildly assertive without being combative, and sociable. Those would be non-physical features I'd say that many men who seek women who look like you also look for. Thinking of the characters someone like Felicia Day most often plays -- somewhat helpless, awkward, easy-to-control, nerdy, overextends herself for everyone else types -- generally those qualities are more attractive in a woman who has big eyes, birdlike bone structure, waif size, etc. That's because looking strong and acting helpless creates dissonance, I think. If you want to be combative (which it often sounds like you are with men), you have to be very hot, and not in a Felicia Day way, but in a Megan Fox or Jessica Alba way, or you have to find men who simply dig that because their Mom was that way or something unresolved. A Flo-like persona would do you well, but only if you could feel sincere in it (and tone it down, because life is not a TV commercial). 1
Els Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 I'm really not sure about Felicia being 'average' - given that 'average' is the random person you'd see on the street, I think she'd definitely stand out to me, at least, as pretty. Not as exceedingly so as most other female celebrities, but pretty nonetheless. Average-looking women really don't have hundreds of comments on all their youtube videos and facebook about how pretty they are. Also, I'm not sure I agree that it's the best idea in the world to change one's persona simply to fit one's appearance, to appeal to the opposite sex. I think that there are many personas that could be possibly viewed as endearing, and to me this borders dangerously on 'changing oneself to fit in'. I question the happiness of a relationship that would start off on such a footing. However, I definitely agree on the less-combative, more-positive recommendation. IMO those are improvements, not really change, and characteristics that people should work on for the purpose of improving all types of social interaction, regardless of body type.
iris219 Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 That makes sense. I'm not sure if I date guys who are into waifs... most of the guys I date seem to have huge things for redheads. A few of them REALLY like that Flo from Esurance (can't explain that one...) So going by my looks, what should my persona be?... You realize they like Flo for her personality right? She's peppy, positive, and eternally happy, which is pretty much the opposite of you. (Not saying that's good or bad. I personally prefer more cynical people; your guys didn't.) One more piece of evidence that it's not the way you look! Your persona should be the one you're most comfortable with, the one that feels most authentic.
zengirl Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) I'm really not sure about Felicia being 'average' - given that 'average' is the random person you'd see on the street, I don't think she's average. Nor do I think V is average. I'd say V is probably slightly above average and could be quite attractive if Hollywood styled (almost everyone gets vastly more attractive with those things available to them and you can actually SEE that in Felicia Day, for example). In addition to being pretty, however, Day is striking and more unusual looking, though -- that doesn't always land one more men, but it is good if you're looking for celebrity. ETA: There are also some men with whom you don't have to seem pretty in other ways if you're thin enough -- waifs are rare enough outside of Hollywood that they're generally considered reasonably pretty and VERY pretty by the men who fancy waifs. Almost every BF I've had in recent years, since I was less waif-like (I'm still thin, but I'm not THAT much thinner than V tbh) has seen old pictures of me and said, "don't get that thin again!" without any kind of prompting, etc. They wouldn't have liked me as a waif. The men who liked me then probably would think I wasn't as attractive now. And some wouldn't care either way. These dynamics abound, and it's good to actually understand that the waif body --- while VERY sought by some men --- is not the typical male ideal; it is just the loudest if you happen to meet the small subset of men who like that. Also, I'm not sure I agree that it's the best idea in the world to change one's persona simply to fit one's appearance, to appeal to the opposite sex. Well, average non-celebs don't really require a persona. Felicia Day is almost certainly not fully expressed by her persona as we know her, and I don't think putting on a persona should ever be a 'lie' per se, but what you choose to show first is important in life. I think that there are many personas that could be possibly viewed as endearing, and to me this borders dangerously on 'changing oneself to fit in'. I question the happiness of a relationship that would start off on such a footing. True. However, what's important is selecting a persona that does utilize aspects of who you are and/or actually working towards a more positive persona AND personality in tandem. The idea that we "are who we are" personality-wise has never sat well with me. I've changed my personality, rather than lied about it, when aspects of it were not serving me well. It takes time, effort, and a desire to do so for yourself and not just results, however. Persona and personality are not the same thing, fwiw, though they do need to not clash. However, I definitely agree on the less-combative, more-positive recommendation. IMO those are improvements, not really change, and characteristics that people should work on for the purpose of improving all types of social interaction, regardless of body type. Well, I think there are different 'good' personality traits that better suit different people and different things to present first based on who you're trying to attract and who you are. Edited May 1, 2012 by zengirl
threebyfate Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 As a consideration with a combative nature, this can be put towards banter instead of arguing where it's not viewed from a win/lose perspective since everyone wins when you're doing the horizontal mambo. 2
Mrlonelyone Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 I think me and Zengirl are saying the same things in different ways. Zengirl says pick a persona that expresses both who you are and what you want. I say take actions that will increase your social status and psychological well being. Which would involve changing your persona. Verzhn has shown me pictures of herself. I don't think she's fat. However she seems to be uncomfortable with and down on how she looks. If making a change in terms of diet and exercise, which would cause weight loss makes her feel better that will increase her social value. Doing that will also make whatever persona she chooses more appealing, as healthy and happy are always more attractive. Like I have said, I know fat happy people. Verzhn is not happy. If she's not happy then how can she have a RLship and be happy with it? All I'm trying to do is describe the social and psychological conditions of the people I know who are in relationships. Their relationship is just the result of the over all social position they were in. They met their partner through common friends and activities. Then they sorted themselves into pairs based in part on mutual attraction, psychological compatibility and social status within that subgroup.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 Let's see how V responds now that she actually has gotten what I would say is good, "real" advice.
Author verhrzn Posted May 1, 2012 Author Posted May 1, 2012 You realize they like Flo for her personality right? She's peppy, positive, and eternally happy, which is pretty much the opposite of you. (Not saying that's good or bad. I personally prefer more cynical people; your guys didn't.) One more piece of evidence that it's not the way you look! Your persona should be the one you're most comfortable with, the one that feels most authentic. ... If they're attracted to THAT kind of personality, I have no idea why they dated me in the first place. That makes even LESS sense than them not being physically attracted to me. I dunno, I find Flo fake and kind of annoying. It makes me a little whoozy to think THAT'S what I need to be to attract guys.
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