Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 I just found this wonderful site and really could use some help. Here is my background: I had an A with MM 15 years ago. That A lasted 4 years. We broke it off because he could not commit to leave his marriage. I am also married. We work together very closely but he is not boss. We had very limited contact through the last 14 years. Then a year ago, we started to become friends again and, of course, the rest is history. He has 2 children. I have one. His children are 17 and 12. My DS is 10. We talk all the time about being together. Leaving our spouses. We are no different that all the other stories. I truly believes he loves me. I love him. He has a hard time leaving his marriage because of the 12 year old. He says his marriage is terrible. He is doing everything in his power to get his W to leave him. Which I do not agree with either, but that must be his way to appease his guilt. I sit on the sidelines and could leave my H at any time. We talk every day. We talk about how we are going to make this happen. We want to be together, etc., etc. I am about 60/40 percent sure he will leave his W (Not great odds), but our problem right now comes from the fact that he and his wife still function to the world as a married couple. They go to parties together, they still do many things together as a couple. That is when we fight. I don't think he should lead her on like that if he intends to leave her or why would she leave him if he still attends all the functions she wants him to. He says its for show. That they have nothing in common so instead of doing things just with each other, they get out of the house TOGETHER and attend social events. Am I wrong? Should this not be a big deal them doing everything together on the weekends still? Or am I just taking his line of BS and he really does never intend to leave? It really hurts me when they attend things together on the weekends. He knows that and tries to keep it from me. I do usually find out and then a fight will ensue. I have tried to break away from him so many times but it never works. I feel trapped - too good to leave, too bad to stay. Any advice would be much appreciated.
findingnemo Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Are you being played? Hell, yeah. You're being played big time. If the first A years ago ended because he wouldn't leave, then he should have left by now on his own before seeing you again. If indeed you both love each other so much, he should have figured out a way to leave in the last 11 years when you were out of the picture. But then again, there's your M. You are acting just like he is. Are you saying you'll only leave your M if you're sure you have MM lined up? How do think your H would feel about that? Is it fair to him that he is Plan B and can be dumped out of the blue for a man you've loved for a decade and a half while he was clueless? To begin to demand that your MM be sincere and honest, shouldn't you have to be the same? He is a cake eater but unfortunately he also sees that so are you. I bet his best case scenario is that you stay M, he stays M and you both see each other on the side. You've proved to him that you would never try to expose to his W and he is comfortable knowing you love him to bits. Imagine a man who is loved and pampered by two women? Even if it was you, wouldn't that just be fantastic? You have a H who loves you and another man who is willing to get whatever little he can. Both people fulfill a need for you. If you could think like that, you may begin to understand why your MM isn't making any moves towards a D. 6
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 Thank you, FINDINGNEMO, I should have wrote in my post that my M is over. I am actually moving into my own house in a few days. It was never a good M, but it got worse about 9 months ago, 3 months in the 2nd A with my MM and I knew I had to leave it for myself.
alexandria35 Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Sounds like a typical MM to me. There are contradictions galore in everything you have said. He can't leave because of the 12 yr old, yet he is doing everything in his power to get his wife to leave him. Huh? If he feels that he can't leave his child then why on earth would he be trying to get his wife to leave as she will almost certainly be taking the 12 yr old with her? Is he staying for the kid or isn't he? And how is he going about getting his wife to leave him? By going out on the town with her every weekend. Oh but that's just for show because it makes perfect sense that someone who is about to leave their marriage still wants to make a big show of being married. No wait. It's not just for show, it's because he can't stand to be alone with his hideous wife because they have nothing in common so they have to go out to have fun. Oh how I wish I could meet a guy who dislikes me so much that he has to take me out for a good time every weekend....lol. This guy ain't leaving anything. If he didn't leave 15 years ago he sure as heck ain't leaving now, especially since he's invested 15 more years into his married lifestyle. He likely thinks you are in no position to make any serious demands since you are also married and playing the at the same game he is. And what about you? Why haven't you left your husband? If you are unhappily married why don't you leave? Leaving a marriage isn't about running off with another guy, it's about realizing you are unhappy and taking responsibility for your own life and choices. People leave unhappy marriages everyday without there being anyone waiting on them because they have decided that it's not right to continue on in an unhappy union. Sounds like you don't want to take responsibility for your own life or make your own choices. 1
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 Alexandria - thank you! Some of the things you said, really hit home to me. Although, I am leaving my H. My marriage has been over. We are getting a D. It's an amicable situation with him. They do not go out of town together, well you know what, I guess they do once in awhile. But mostly it is in town parties or dinners with other couples, etc. He says that his relationship with his wife his very mad. They argue all the time. From what he says they are both making each other's life a living hell in order to be left. Neither one of them want the stigma of being the one to have their family. So, they argue and are bitter and resentful. So, he says. Yet, they still show the community they are a united couple. He says that is to keep the peace and it is all for show so they do not sit and fight at their house every night.
alexandria35 Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Okay just saw your post saying you are leaving your husband. Thats a good thing because it's better than cheating on him. Funny how your marriage suddenly took a turn for the worse shortly after you restarted your affair. Hmmm...I wonder if that means anything. Could there be some sort of weird correlation between having an affair and a marriage taking a turn for the worse? I wonder. It's good that you are leaving but hopefully you're not doing it just to turn up the heat on your MM and to pressure him to leave his marriage because you are going to be very disappointed. He may just suddenly decide he needs to stop the affair completely because now you have changed the playing field. You're a safer affair partner while married. Once you become single MM isn't going to like the added pressure or the added risk to his family life. 1
findingnemo Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Thank you, FINDINGNEMO, I should have wrote in my post that my M is over. I am actually moving into my own house in a few days. It was never a good M, but it got worse about 9 months ago, 3 months in the 2nd A with my MM and I knew I had to leave it for myself. I'm sorry about your M. It's never easy when things end, no matter what the reasons. Okay, ignore what I said about you being a cake eater too. Your MM is definately one. The fact is that there are plenty of reasons people find it hard to leave a M even when they know they love someone else. However, this is no reason to have the best of both worlds. One must simply make a choice or end up selfishly hurting a lot of people. Your MM should have made that choice a long time ago. If not, then he should make it now and stick with it. If it's his family, then so be it. Don't sleep with him or even see him unless he does do something to show you that he loves and wants to be with you. Anything less and he's definitely playing you. Also be ready to accept him choosing to remain with his family. Respect that choice. Make sure he adheres to it by becoming unavailable for any chats, meetings, etc. Sometimes loving someone means doing what needs to be done however painful it may be. Demand honesty and integrity from your MM. That way he will show you truly what the situation is.
Bellechica Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Just my opinion, but, yes you are being played. He isn't going to leave his wife. He is telling you things to string you along. You're plan B, back-up lady. His actions of going about with his W as a married couple show that he is compartmentalizing very well to keep his M intact. I bet he told you they sleep in separate beds, right? I'm sorry your M ended, but now that you're D, you have a chance to date and meet someone new. 1
Tayla Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Alexandria, I think the Poster did leave Her marriage. She has chosen to make a new life on her own. Yes I agree there are mathematical contradictions that certainly Ring warning bells. The affair started 15 years ago. It lasted 4 years. During that time the MM had a son. Hmm....??? Bell ringer on that one. He chose to have a family during the affair. The MM is in due time going to divorce and I'd say not by his choice but by his actions. His Spouse will kick him to the curb. This Lady poster is going with her emotional side...and in this matter she needs to sit down, do the math and realize she is going to come up with ZERO. A Zero for a lover, confidante, and companion. It never ceases to amaze me that two folks that carry the same dynamics to go behind their spouses back think they will miraculously become loyal to one another. Its not that they aren't good people in many other ways...I just think that you cannot teach an ole dog new tricks...unless her name is Trixie The OP seems rational in some ways and its my hope that she regains a clearer perspective thru the feedback displayed. This guy reeks of "show"man ship. He has no substance to him if its all about public appearence... 1
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 Alexandria, I did not leave my H to put the pressure on my MM. MM actually is behind it 100% and wants me to. Although, he is quite afraid that I will meet someone new while he "tries" to leave his M. He does show a lot of conflict there when we talk about that. Bellachica, he has not told me they sleep in seperate beds. He did tell me they were not having sex though. That is all he has said about that. Tayla, actually his son was born about 10 months after we ended. Coincidence? That was painful. I understand what you all are saying. And I guess I knew what your responses would be, but just to see them written like this, it really is an eye opener. It's so hard to go NC. We have tried over and over. I am usually the one that caves in every time. We do work together so that is difficult as well. I really would just like my life back. It hurts to bare your heart and soul to a person and have them play you like that. It's humiliating and painful to the soul. I know I need to move on and thank you all for your kind and harsh (which I need) words.
whichwayisup Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 but our problem right now comes from the fact that he and his wife still function to the world as a married couple. They go to parties together, they still do many things together as a couple. That is when we fight. I don't think he should lead her on like that if he intends to leave her or why would she leave him if he still attends all the functions she wants him to. He says its for show. That they have nothing in common so instead of doing things just with each other, they get out of the house TOGETHER and attend social events. It is what it is. An affair. No plans on leaving his wife and family for you to start a new life with a blended family. You either need to accept your role as the OW in his life and understand that you both fulfill a need but it's not enough to change lives over, or end it. OF COURSE he is going to keep going out with his wife. She's his primary relationship. They have kids and they do family stuff. They have friends and they socialize with them. Don't you do family stuff with your husband and kids? Don't you and your husband go out and live life as a couple? See other family members, celebrate birthdays and holidays together? Go out with friends as couples? Or do you sit and wait for MM to get a hold of you and refuse to "live life" as a family unit, or go out with your husband? Go grocery shopping, every day things? He isn't 'playing' you just like you aren't 'playing' him. Each of you have your (selfish) reasons to cheat on your spouses. Just know that eventually you two will be caught and your whole comfy world will come crashing down and change in ways that will mess you up, your husband up and your kids as well. Is it worth it?? PLEASE think.
alexandria35 Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Actually I said they were going out on the town, not out of town. Lol. Anyways I think your MM is full of crap. I haven't been married but I've had a few long term relationships with men that I lived with. Whenever our relationship got to the state that your MM describes, we did a lot less going out together. It's actually torture to go out and try to have fun with someone you don't want to be with anymore.It's hell to try to look happy with someone you can't stand to be with. It's much easier to go out alone or just stay in. Now that you're becoming single your MM is either going to turn up the lies and start making up epic ridiculous excuses as to why he doesn't leave, ie his wife will become suicidal, his kid will become terribly sick with a mysterious or not so mysterious illness, he will be hit with some huge financial crisis, etc, or he will end the affair, but he will try to do it in such a way that he comes out looking heroic "I have to stay for the good of everyone else" and you won't see him for what he really is. 3
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 I agree. And that is what I have told MM, if his M is so horrible, how can they go out together and not show that resentment. Not to mention, he is giving her the idea that his marriage can be saved. That is my personal opinion and the thing that I cannot get past. If I were his W, I would be looking for any crumb of salvation to save the marriage and him continuing to do things with her like that, would be that crumb. He really is playing me, isn't he. It's becoming more clear. He loves me from Monday through Friday, but then Friday rolls around, then Saturday and then Sunday and that love can just magically disappear? I love him 7 days a week. Not just 5. I know what I need to do. It's very tough but I know.
whichwayisup Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Thank you, FINDINGNEMO, I should have wrote in my post that my M is over. I am actually moving into my own house in a few days. It was never a good M, but it got worse about 9 months ago, 3 months in the 2nd A with my MM and I knew I had to leave it for myself. Then it seems your MM isn't ready to give up what he has at home. He has it made by having you in his life to meet his ego and selfish needs, then he has his wife who fulfills his other needs and doesn't have to change his whole life. He gets the best of both worlds. Yes, he is steering clear of the sex thing with you. Why on earth would he admit he still has sex with his wife? I would think he ASSUMES you KNOW he is with her since they have a social life, spend time together and sleep in the same bed. Focus on your own life, do family counselling to help your kids adjust to the changes of divorce and a new routine/life, and take time to figure out what YOU want. Since it seems MM isn't leaving his wife and kids for you, are you willing to continue on as the OW and just keep things as an affair? Or are you looking for a new husband, someone to settle down with and start over? If yes, then end it with him and grieve the loss, find someone who can give you what you need. This MM can't until you stay on his terms.
whichwayisup Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 I agree. And that is what I have told MM, if his M is so horrible, how can they go out together and not show that resentment. Not to mention, he is giving her the idea that his marriage can be saved. That is my personal opinion and the thing that I cannot get past. If I were his W, I would be looking for any crumb of salvation to save the marriage and him continuing to do things with her like that, would be that crumb. He really is playing me, isn't he. It's becoming more clear. He loves me from Monday through Friday, but then Friday rolls around, then Saturday and then Sunday and that love can just magically disappear? I love him 7 days a week. Not just 5. I know what I need to do. It's very tough but I know. See, to you it IS the relationship and you love him, have high expectations. He is your 'everything'. To him, it's an affair and you're second fiddle. Sure he cares about you, possibly does love you, but the glue that holds him and his wife and family together is a lot stronger than what you two have shared during the affair. They have a family together and a life built, deal with reality issues and real life. you two shared intense feelings behind closed doors and it's hidden, taboo and a lie based on the expense of his wife and your husband. Did you tell your H about the affair?
whichwayisup Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 I agree. And that is what I have told MM, if his M is so horrible, how can they go out together and not show that resentment. Not to mention, he is giving her the idea that his marriage can be saved Because she doesn't know! He is lying to you about that. A couple who continues to live life like that is NOT a couple about to split up and divorce.
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 See, to you it IS the relationship and you love him, have high expectations. He is your 'everything'. To him, it's an affair and you're second fiddle. Sure he cares about you, possibly does love you, but the glue that holds him and his wife and family together is a lot stronger than what you two have shared during the affair. They have a family together and a life built, deal with reality issues and real life. you two shared intense feelings behind closed doors and it's hidden, taboo and a lie based on the expense of his wife and your husband. Did you tell your H about the affair? No, I did not. He does not know.
alexandria35 Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 I agree. And that is what I have told MM, if his M is so horrible, how can they go out together and not show that resentment. Not to mention, he is giving her the idea that his marriage can be saved. That is my personal opinion and the thing that I cannot get past. If I were his W, I would be looking for any crumb of salvation to save the marriage and him continuing to do things with her like that, would be that crumb. He really is playing me, isn't he. It's becoming more clear. He loves me from Monday through Friday, but then Friday rolls around, then Saturday and then Sunday and that love can just magically disappear? I love him 7 days a week. Not just 5. I know what I need to do. It's very tough but I know. Why do you think his wife is looking for crumbs of salvation? I suspect that she isn't even aware that her marriage needs salvation. Also why do believe that she is that desperate to hold onto a bad marriage?
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 Because she doesn't know! He is lying to you about that. A couple who continues to live life like that is NOT a couple about to split up and divorce. That is what I kept telling him. He said it was hard to explain but it was all for show and so they do not sit and look at each other every night. I know, you are right. I got played. I'm embarassed by bearing my soul to him. I really did give him validation that he was the best men, best lover, best everything on the face of the earth and he was playing me the whole time.
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 Why do you think his wife is looking for crumbs of salvation? I suspect that she isn't even aware that her marriage needs salvation. Also why do believe that she is that desperate to hold onto a bad marriage? Alexandria, those are the things he told me. He said the marriage is so bad. He is doing everything in his power to make HER leave HIM. I think she is desperate to hold onto a bad marriage is because she simply does not want a divorce. That this is a rough patch and they will get through it. She is content to be in a loveless marriage for the kids and for the status. OR, and in all likelihood, I am wrong and he is just a liar.
alexandria35 Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 That is what I kept telling him. He said it was hard to explain but it was all for show and so they do not sit and look at each other every night. I know, you are right. I got played. I'm embarassed by bearing my soul to him. I really did give him validation that he was the best men, best lover, best everything on the face of the earth and he was playing me the whole time. Is that what the unhappy couples are doing these days? They spend their evenings just sitting and looking at each other? I don't think so. People who are unhappy with their partners try to find things to do that exclude the other. She might go read a book or talk on the phone, he might go tinker in his garage or go out for a beer with buddies Sorry for the sexist examples, okay he might talk on the phone and she might go for a beer with her buddies, haha. How does he have you believing that if that they didn't go out for fun that they would spend their entire evenings just sitting and looking at each other? Just picturing that is kind of funny. 1
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 THanks, Lady, for those kind words. I know my head tells me that. My heart is going to take a long time to get there, but I need to fill it with other things right now. I have to let him go. I will never out him. That isn't my style. I wish I could for the humiliation he put me through. We told each other EVERYTHING. Then he disappears for 2 days and expects things to be back normal on Monday when I have all this resentment built from the weekend. And then by tuesday or wednesday we are back in the "honeymoon" stage and then the ficious cycle continues. I'm tired. Can I just go NC right now or do I have to tell him? Everytime I have tried to do it, he turns the tables on me and makes me feel guilty. He is a master manipulator that is for sure. What is the best approach right now, go NC on my own or tell him?
Author Flagirl2 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Posted April 28, 2012 Is that what the unhappy couples are doing these days? They spend their evenings just sitting and looking at each other? I don't think so. People who are unhappy with their partners try to find things to do that exclude the other. She might go read a book or talk on the phone, he might go tinker in his garage or go out for a beer with buddies Sorry for the sexist examples, okay he might talk on the phone and she might go for a beer with her buddies, haha. How does he have you believing that if that they didn't go out for fun that they would spend their entire evenings just sitting and looking at each other? Just picturing that is kind of funny. He says when the go out, they go their seperate ways once they arrive and barely talk to each other. He finds that more agreeable than sitting at home and fighting or with nothing to do.
Bellechica Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Flagirl, I want you to envision how each weekend, each evening, will be with this man. He is going to be with is W and family. Are you suppose to just sit contently at home waiting for him? Sleeping alone in a bed as he lies next to his W? I know you are hurting, but it's only going to get more painful. I was never the OW, but a WW. My ex OM who was D used to tell me how painful it was when I left to go home. You deserve someone who can be with you fully. The MM will tell you how bad his marriage is, but it is the A which is making him focus on the negative in his M and in his W. 2
alexandria35 Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Alexandria, those are the things he told me. He said the marriage is so bad. He is doing everything in his power to make HER leave HIM. I think she is desperate to hold onto a bad marriage is because she simply does not want a divorce. That this is a rough patch and they will get through it. She is content to be in a loveless marriage for the kids and for the status. OR, and in all likelihood, I am wrong and he is just a liar. Going out with his wife and socializing with friends and family IS NOT doing everything in his power to make her leave him. That is ridiculous. Whenever I have had a man accompany me everywhere I hardly thought he was trying to get away from me. I did have a long term relationship with an alcoholic. Towards the end as he became more and more immersed in the alcoholism, he also became much less interested in me, my needs and my feelings. He wanted to spend every weekend in the bar or hanging out with his emotionally and intellectually stunted drinking buddies. I would have to plead with him to go out with me. He would agree to take me on a date but then when the weekend would arrive and his beer would beckon, he would forget all about me and what he had promised. Guess what I did? I left him! And I was quite stunned when he came after me begging and crying for me to come back, because as far as I was concerned he had done everything in his power to make me leave. So there you go. Tell your MM if wants to make his wife leave the best way to go about it is to completely abandon her every weekend, hang out with losers and come home drunk. Or he can just tell her that he is a cheater. That would probably help her out the door too.
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