So ashamed.

[nightingales]

I am so ashamed of what has transpired over the course of the relationship, that its hard to gather the strength to even type it out on this forum, much less bring myself to say it to a friend. Being a member here for many years, I know that my situation would be met with advice completely one-sided; unfortunately, its not what I want to hear, nor is it what I want to do...at the moment. In fact, part of the reason I am so ashamed to admit it is because of your judgement, your...anger at me for being the way I have been (and the loss of respect that accompanies it), and once you know, your lack of sympathy because I myself have been so weak that I do not deserve it.

 

I am so ashamed of my weakness and it has not been getting better. Almost every day has been stress and struggle on my behalf, due to my mental quality or unwillingness to live into the future, I do not know.

 

Being with her is amazing. That is of no doubt - she really is special. At the same time, the past (and the questions, and the dealings), and the threat of the future constantly looming over my head is driving me crazy. I don't know what to do except to reach out, but I can't bring myself to reach out because I'm too ashamed to admit that I would be so weak. And to be completely honest, I am too afraid of what you will say. I'm afraid of the harsh words, the "I-told-you-so" attitudes, and the cruelty I will feel coming from your words when your anger at my weakness is expressed. I am afraid of the "You deserve it"-s and the "You're an idiot"-s and all those variations thereof.

 

And in this simple fact alone, I feel undeserving of advice, sympathy, or empathy.

 

So now I'm left with the question - not what, but - how do I do?

[TaraMaiden]

So....

'nightingales' is your sockpuppet - a different identity to the one we usually know you as -

 

and -

 

You believe you have done something so heinous that we're just going to rip you a new one with razor-wire and press ground glass into your eyeballs - metaphorically speaking?

 

So, really - what can we do?

What is it you want from us?

 

 

Tell you what - all i can offer is this:

why don't you take back your original forum ID and drop me a PM?

 

Edit:

I have a feeling I know who you are......

Edited April 27, 2012 by TaraMaiden

[nightingales]

When you put it like that, TaraMaiden, my worry seems so silly, careless even, on the verge of hilarity. Yes I worry, but the major reason is because I feel as though I know the responses that will be given. In reality, I do not, however this anxiety is still stopping me from admitting my weaknesses (compounded because in the past, I've noticed that many people here are dump-crazy for wrongdoings, myself included).

 

I don't want to hear "Dump her." I know its what I should have done. I don't want to hear how much of a chump I have been, or how I deserve my own suffering. Now that I've made it clear what I don't want, you ask me to establish what I do want: understanding, empathy, a light at the end of the tunnel. Some sort of insight that has so far surpassed me, and a way out of this dark hole that has enveloped me.

 

As for whether you know me or not, I would be very surprised if you did. You have, in the past, responded to my threads (and indeed quite favorably) but i've been absent for quite some time on these forums, and am not so active as to be noticed regularly.

[TaraMaiden]

Well you know, two things;

One, as i said, send me a PM.

 

or

 

Two, (and i think this would be more helpful for you) just come clean, and write what you need to say.

first of all, if people know you, they're not actually likely to slap you up too harshly.

and there's always the alert button - both for you or others - to use, if you believe people are just being flaming, disrespectful or uncivil.

 

Try us.

We might surprise you.

[Professor X]

So what do you want from this forum? You know what you need to do, you obviously aren't strong enough to make the move.

 

When a man comes here with an issue so severe that the only solution is to break his RS, but can't, what other advice is he hoping to get? If you think we can offer you a magic pill that will turn back time or erase your memories, than you're wrong.

 

If you can't make the change yourself, than accept your life as is, as sh*tty as it is and realize it's the best you'll get cause YOU won't put a stop to it.

 

You always had and always will have all the power, up to you what to do with it.

[Reddice]

First of all Nightingales, you need to stop wallowing in self pity. It's totally couter productive. As for the people on this forum, we only want to help you move forward. All of us have gone through rough times and all of us want you to come out stronger. But we can't offer you anything more than moral support or advice. The rest is up to you. You have received the answers you need and the support you so longed for. So why not use it? Why not apply it? After all, you make your own destiny. What kind of foundation are you laying for your future?

 

Every time I feel sad, down or depressed I just think of a line in Rocky Balboa:

"Then the time come for you to be your own man and take on the world, and you did. But somewhere along the line, you changed. You stopped being you. You let people stick a finger in your face and tell you you're no good. And when things got hard, you started looking for something to blame, like a big shadow. Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get it and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain't you!"

[nightingales]

Originally I sent TaraMaiden a PM; however, it did not send, so this must be a sign to "come clean." This will be kept as short as possible (it's not possible) but there's a lot more to the story you won't be getting because of that.

 

My girlfriend is funny, beautiful, intelligent, successful, and (at times) kind. A real catch, and no one who knows her disagrees. I love her beauty, I love her intelligence, I love her charm and most of all, I love her for who she is as an individual. We are both approaching our mid-20's, and have been dating for over a year and a half. The problem is that she has cheated on me with three other guys. The first two occurred early in our relationship. I caught on quickly and would confront her, but she would lie. Slowly, the truth started leaking out of her (she couldn't hold the guilt), though her story would always change: it started more innocent, then something else would be added onto it. It took her about 2-3 months to fully come clean. The first guy, she slept with once and hooked up with 2-3 times. The second guy would sleep over and they would make out, but they never did anything sexual. I didn't believe her about that for a long time, but now I do (they have their reasons).

 

This hurt me greatly and broke my trust in her. Before her, I had a string of unfaithful relationships that she knew about and from day 1 she promised she wouldn't be the same. That is why on the night she slept with guy #1 I received a call at about 3 am saying she was "home and safe" (read: in the other guy's bed), though she sounded oddly SAD. The next night, I asked her whether she was with someone else and she said, "No. I am loyal only to you." This was a lie she repeated for a long time - I am loyal only to you.

 

After she came clean, she showed a lot of remorse and regret. I chose to continue our relationship. She did start doing things to help me regain trust in her, and our love grew. We had a good relationship, a great friendship, and an incredible companionship. We just...click, as friends, and even moreso as lovers. But the odd feeling of distrust I had still waxed and waned in the back of my mind, and I would talk to her about it. She repeatedly assured me that she learned her lesson, she would never do it again, she regretted it. She had a bad time, she said, playing 3 guys and most of all playing me - someone she loved - she compared us as so: they were stableboys who looked like princes, and I am a prince who looked like a stableboy, she claimed, crying.

 

So on our relationship went. We had good times and bad times, as every relationship is apt to have, but I could tell she truly loved me and I her. Unfortunately, I wasn't completely over her messing around on me, so I would hang it over her head sometimes, as she reassured me it would never happen again. Then our relationship hit a low point, and we got into a deadly argument. Some guy who lived in another state was flirting with her on facebook and I kept asking her to mention me. She did at one point, saying something like "...my BF likes that." I noted to her that it wasn't enough, as he kept flirting, and she said it didn't matter - she would never see him so it was harmless, and what she was saying back to him wasn't terrible (it wasn't). I got angry and told her I knew what she was doing: she liked the attention, so she would let him flirt regardless, and neglect to mention me at all. It was stupid, I know, but my jealousy overruled me. I texted her at 5 AM before the start of the first day of her new job saying, "Its too bad that my own girlfriend won't stand up for our relationship." This woke her up, and she got so furious she delivered me a flurry of demeaning, mean text messages. I mean they were bad. So bad that in our anger, we figured our relationship needed a break to cool off. The break never happened, we still hung out every day...probably a mistake.

 

I agreed to get counseling in order to solve my outstanding issues. She agreed to as well, but unlike me, she never went. I started being nicer, trying to solve our issues. The fight was Monday. On Thursday, I took her out to a great dinner and on Friday, we went to a concert. At the concert, we got into a fight because she wanted to go to her friend's house so badly she wanted to leave early. I was hurt and angry, as I had paid a lot of money and tried to show her a good time. Then she told me she was hanging out with this guy she met at work the next day, who had been texting her. I asked whether he knew about me, she said no - then I asked if it was a date, and she said, "Of course not. I don't even like him - and I don't want to end up with a guy who works as [his current position]. Its just hanging out as friends."

 

I slept over her house that night. Woke up the next morning, the DAY she was hanging out with that other guy she just met, and she dumped me. I got angry at how convenient it was for her to dump me the same day she's going out with another guy on a date, and she kept saying it wasn't a date. I didn't believe her and in my anger, asked whether she was going to end up in the same bed we were sitting in that very night. She said of course not, then started crying as we said good bye. We didn't talk the rest of the day. Later, I was stuck at my friend's house 2 miles from her place and called her at 12:30 for a ride home. No answer. This worried me and I got a bad feeling in my gut, so when I got home I drove over to her place (around 2 AM) and found her and that guy making out in her bed.

 

I didn't say much or react angrily. I left, deleted her from my phone, facebook, etc, etc...she texted me how sorry she was. The next day, around 5 PM she texted me that she wanted to talk and said such nice words about how I was so deserving of kindness and compassion. So I met up with her at her place and we had a long discussion. Apparently, she was interested in this guy she had just met and wanted to see him more. I was cynical, seeing as how I called it the day before. But still, I loved her and wouldn't let her slip out of my grasp so easily, so I called her and she invited me over. I made her breakfast, we took a shower, we kissed and hugged and said all the nice words. Then she took a nap, and unfortunately, I went through her phone. I HAD to see what was going on. I know it was wrong of me, but...i just had to. I know you guys have been there before.

 

As it turns out: the previous night, that is THE DAY AFTER they went on their "date," they had been sending each other naked pictures. ALSO, WHILE I WAS THERE, kissing her and hugging her, she was texting the other guy -- "I'm fantasizing about you. When are we going to make out again?"

 

I broke down. It was all so early, we had just broken up 2 days before. She was all nice and kind and etc while we talked, but I left in disgust. I played such a fool, still wanting her. After I left, later that night, she invited the guy over and they did what she describes as "heavy petting" (this is day #3). Kind of moving fast, but she said the first night he had told her: I don't want to have sex, I want to wait. I don't want to go in your bedroom, but she was the one who invited him.

 

I was lost, man. How could she do this? She told me that she knew it was wrong, and she was just too afraid of being alone, so we didn't talk much the next day. Then, the next night, I got into a huge fight with my parents and needed some comfort. I went over to her house where she asked me to cuddle. I asked her not to lead me on, and she said she wasn't - she loved me and wanted to be with me, but not NOW. What she wanted to do was pursue this guy and see where they would go. I was furious, and was about to leave when she got a text from one of her co-workers telling her how this guy was kind of a man-slut. She was horrified.

 

We spent the night talking, and in the morning she apologized for what she had done and said she wanted to be with me. I told her it was all too convenient, and it wasn't that simple - but I could get over what she did if she was worth it. But I still really wanted to be with her. So I laid some ground rules: 1. Do not talk to this guy outside of work: no calls, no texts, nothing. 2. Do not see this guy outside of work. 3. Under no circumstances is he to enter your house. 4. When you talk to him, be polite and short, and do not flirt with him.

 

She spent the whole day trying to figure out a way to "end it gracefully" with this guy she had been seeing for like, 5 days at that point. It hadn't gotten too far, so I wasn't too worried. That night I was with her as she texted him that she just wanted to be friends. We spent the next week trying to fix our relationship. We went to sort of a "group counseling" session where I signed up. I TOLD HER THAT I FORGAVE HER AND I WANTED TO WORK THINGS OUT FOR THE BETTER TO IMPROVE OUR RELATIONSHIP. And I did, really. I spent the next WEEK, every night, making her dinner, being romantic, talking deeply with her about our relationship and feelings. I bought her presents, I spent $400 on her.

 

So this went on for about a week. One day while she was at work and I had the day off, I spent the whole day cleaning her apartment, doing her laundry, her dishes, making her dinner, texting her sweet things. She got home and as it turns out, that guy was texting her all day, trying to flirt. She kept rejecting him, so he called her while I was there and she asked me to leave the room. They had about a half an hour conversation and when they were done, she came to me and said it was over. They were just friends, no harm done. She sat on my lap and told me how grateful she was for me, and how she wanted to do more things to show me how much she cares about our relationship. I slept over her place that night.

 

Everything now is happening the day after the above paragraph where I spent the whole day doing things for her. I woke up and she was sitting by me, telling me how much she loved me and how she would DO ANYTHING FOR ME. We went our respective ways, and then after my day was done I went back to her house. After work, she called me and dropped this bomb: "How do you feel about an open relationship?" I told her no. Absolutely not. I am monogamous, and if you want to be with me, that is what I expect in return. She came back home and as it turns out, they had been texting all day flirting back and forth. She claims he is the one that suggested that "she give him just one night," but she had deleted the messages so I don't know whether to believe her. She told me that she felt a void in herself and in our relationship. She told me that she loved me and wanted to be with me, but she wanted just one night so she could have sex with this guy. I was so mad. I kept saying no. These were her reasons:

 

-I want to be with you, but I want to sleep with him just ONCE.

-If you let me do this, I will be happy.

-If I am happy, then I will be happy in our relationship.

-I NEED TO SLEEP WITH HIM

-No matter what happens, no matter how good the sex is, I will still want to be with you.

-If you don't let me sleep with him, I will resent you.

-If you let me sleep with him, I will stop flirting and talking to him

-I just need to get it out of my system.

-I know how crazy this sounds, but it is what I really want.

-WHY NOT?!

-I want to have my cake and eat it too.

 

Do you know that feeling you have, when you want someone to be happy, but every fiber of your being is screaming no? I told her I should break up with her on the spot. She looked like she would cry. I told her the following: You will destroy our relationship. I will resent you. Absolutely not, do not do it. If you do it, i probably won't want to be with you. Sleeping with him WILL NOT make you happy. If you enjoy it, you won't stop thinking about him and there is no guarantee you would still want to be with me. There will be consequences...etc.

 

I listed off the above, told her the consequences, and then told her that I was going to leave her to make her own choice: pick me, or pick him. Then as I left, she asked, "If I sleep with him will you still love me?" I didn't answer but she kept pressing. I said Yes. It was true. As I left, she said, "I love you." and I said, "F*** you."

 

She slept with him. I was sitting on my bed, not thinking about anything at all. Sent me a text saying, "I love you" midway through. Called me like an hour or two hours later. I answered. The first thing she said was: "I have something to say. It was a mistake, and I regret it." I hung up the phone and drove over to her place to dump her on the spot. She was beyond devastated. She wouldn't let me leave, sitting blocking the door, she wrote me a poem she entitled "My Last Mistake" - "...I broke your heart, I broke my heart, I ruined everything, this was my last mistake." She was on the verge of suicidal...so...

 

I made her some leftovers I had brought earlier that day...I took away all her knives, razors, sharp objects (including silverware) and pills...I waited till she fell asleep...then i left.

 

I am such a CHUMP. I am such a loser. She had just had sex with another guy not an hour ago. I am such an idiot. But I may have saved her life. She asked if I wanted to know what happened - I said no - she told me anyways. The whole ordeal, from start to finish, had lasted about 15 minutes. He couldn't perform, so the sex lasted 2-3 minutes. The rest of the time they just talked. She said, "He didn't even care. He didn't even pretend to care." He walked into the door and told her to take her clothes off. And then after sleeping with her, he didn't talk to her for 2 weeks.

 

That night, I couldn't sleep. I actually got a BOOTY CALL FROM MY EX and I said no. At 7 AM in the morning, my girlfriend drove over to my house with coffee and breakfast. We sat on my bed, and she weeped. She grabbed my hand, caressed her face and told me that she didn't want to lose me. She would do anything. She would give anything, she would be anything. She asked me what I wanted -- I told her, "All I want is a faithful girlfriend." Its been a long time (never) since I had one. I ignored her that whole day. She kept calling me and texting me. She made me a present.

 

She cried a lot. I took her back. She told me she would never do it again...for the fourth time. I was so depressed for a long time. My confidence was destroyed, my ego was destroyed, everything about me hit rock bottom. It's been a really rough climb from there.

 

My biggest issue is that she said she only wanted to do it once. But she cared so little, when I told her no she did it anyway, and said her reasoning was that she was willing to risk our relationship for her immediate gratification, and when it was over it dawned on her what she had done: given up "Love" (me) for "Passion" (him).

 

I believe that she was "testing the waters," and if it had been better with him, then she would have continued sleeping with him. She said her original intention was to have sort of an open relationship, hook up with him a few times, sleep with him only once and then drop him (as she's done in the past). But since I wasn't down for that, she only wanted a one-night-pass with him. She furiously denies that she would have done it more than once, saying that once was all she needed and that she would, no matter what, have still realized that she gave up "love."

 

Ever since then, she has been incredibly insightful about the event, saying that it wasn't about the sex - or him - it was about her "getting what she wanted," and she learned a valuable lesson from it: that fleeting wants are immaterial and never satisfy you. She has repeatedly told me things that really convince me that she realizes what she had done. She tells me how horrible she was, how she wants to slap herself for listing those reasons for wanting to sleep with him, how it was a huge mistake, how she feels like the biggest idiot in the world for hurting the man she "loved," saying things like: "There is no more reason to trust me...I have hurt you beyond what I ever should have. Your heart is the most valuable thing to me, and every day I regret what I did. The only thing I can do is show you."...I have to admit, she lays down some really good rhetoric when it comes to grasping what she did, I can't say anything to do her justice.

 

I really can't do any of this explanation justice. Because there is STILL more to it. We were really crappy for a long time. I wanted a lot of explanations. I wanted a lot of work. Most of all, I wanted her to STOP TALKING TO HIM, because after the two-week silence, he kept flirting with her, trying to sleep with her again. She showed me all the messages. She never flirted back, but she never stopped him, not for a month and a half (after she said she would). Her reason back then: "He works with me, and I rely on him to do things for me, I can't have him hate me." Her reason NOW: "I was a coward. There is no other explanation."

 

I don't know where to go from here. I've been stuck in this deep hole, wondering whether if they had more chemistry, would she have kept seeing him? If so, that means that she only stopped seeing him because the sex was bad, rendering our relationship invalid. But she is fierce in claiming that it didn't matter how good their sex was, she still would have come to the realization of what she did, and although she regrets it, wishes it never happened, she values the lesson she learned from it. She regrets giving her body to a man who didn't deserve her and sacrificing a valuable, meaningful relationship. She also regrets hurting me, saying that she has done so much to hurt me and that she never will again. I'm telling you - she has really spiritually evolved since that day, and I doubted it until this very moment but, it seems like she really understands the gravity of what she did.

 

I still counter a lot of her arguments...saying that if it had gone better, I wouldn't have mattered to her. That she did it to see if she'd like it better. She denies it...I don't know how to believe her. I'm stuck in this dark hole and I want to be with her, I love who she is and find her more attractive than any girl I've seen, i'm dangerously smitten, but I get so angry when I think about what happened. How there's been 3 other guys. How it wasn't fair. I just can't believe she would do that, and STILL have so much trouble understanding it.

 

On top of everything, I am utterly ashamed of myself for being so weak as to take someone back who would do that. Who would cheat, and then promise for months, that she would never do it again...and then do it again.

 

At this point I need to stop typing. I've said enough, and yet not said much at all. If you have reached this point, I want to thank you for being kind enough to meaningfully peer into the life of one man in hopes that you gain an understanding for yourself, or learn something, at least not to make the same mistakes. I am such a fool.

[nightingales]

Well you know, two things;

Two, (and i think this would be more helpful for you) just come clean, and write what you need to say.

 

I feel better.

 

So what do you want from this forum? You know what you need to do, you obviously aren't strong enough to make the move.

 

You're right, I have been weak.

 

When a man comes here with an issue so severe that the only solution is to break his RS, but can't, what other advice is he hoping to get? If you think we can offer you a magic pill that will turn back time or erase your memories, than you're wrong.

 

If you can't make the change yourself, than accept your life as is, as sh*tty as it is and realize it's the best you'll get cause YOU won't put a stop to it.

 

You always had and always will have all the power, up to you what to do with it.

 

In retrospect, its obvious to me I was gauging peoples' reactions to what I needed to say before I said it. There is no magic pill obviously, if there was I wouldn't be in this situation.

 

I have made a lot of changes in my life. This is one I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with.

 

First of all Nightingales, you need to stop wallowing in self pity. It's totally couter productive.

Absolutely.

 

As for the people on this forum, we only want to help you move forward. All of us have gone through rough times and all of us want you to come out stronger. But we can't offer you anything more than moral support or advice. The rest is up to you. You have received the answers you need and the support you so longed for. So why not use it? Why not apply it? After all, you make your own destiny. What kind of foundation are you laying for your future?

 

Thank you. I'm glad that people can come together as a community to support each other. All I have needed is the strength to do what I have to do.

 

And now comes the fury. No need to say I've been stupid: I know I have.

[gaius]

She actually said you look like a stableboy? Nice girl.

 

I don't think I can say much besides that we've all been there to some degree. With a partner we know we shouldn't but for some reason couldn't help ourselves. I give you props for being so honest about it, even if you did make an alt just to do so. I also hope you manage to break yourself free of this woman who for some reason seems to enjoy seeing just how much she can torture you and get away with it.

[Professor X]

I'm just gonna say this: I don't see here love, not from you and certainly not from her. You are obsessed, perhaps, for her, but love? No, you don't love her, you don't love yourself and you for sure don't love what you guys have (which is actually nothing).

 

Maybe you are addicted, like with drugs, thinking tomorrow will be better, or that this is gonna be the last time. Keep consuming this drug despite knowing it will end you.

 

If you will argue that you love, than I will question if you ever were in love, ever, in your life, cause you don't seem to know what love is. Trying to put myself in your shoes and the only emotion that I feel is anger, betrayal, but you.. you forgive her, so quickly, time and time again.

 

Stop with this self pity and accept that you're life is gonna be as miserable as it is now for the rest of it. I wish I believed you'd take care for yourself, but, if a person lets something of this sort to happen so many times, I doubt he has the strength to put an end to it.

 

Perhaps you enjoy it on some deeper level, who knows.

[TaraMaiden]

nightingales I got your message:

As you've gone on open forum, this is what I replied:

 

 

I don't know where to start, even moreso I don't know how to heal and why I am not healing. .....I'm afraid of them simply saying: you're an idiot, you're with a loser, dump her, etc.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I don't know how else to express that besides to pass it forward. Getting these thoughts down helps me outline what I'm actually going to say. I just don't know what to do with it, and whether to come clean.

 

Coming clean is the least of your problems.

Let me throw three very famous, and much-repeated sayings at you:

 

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

 

"Actions speak louder than Words."

 

"NEVER be prepared to put up with being an Option, when you know you should be the Priority"

 

They're very famous and much-repeated - because they're accurate.

 

Now, why are you so scared to dump someone who obviously has very little Respect for herself, and even less for you?

 

Why are you so scared to dumps someone for whom you have absolutely Zero Trust?

 

I don't actually want you to answer me those questions.

I want you to answer them truthfully, to yourself.

 

You've become needy, co-dependent and insecure.

you believe you must have her in your life and that for some bizarre reason she needs you in yours.

you have to come to terms with this, trust your decision, have some self-respect and ditch this woman.

She's broken.

she's unfixable - by you or anyone else - but her.

She needs help - but she has to see it acknowledge it, 'own' it and do it for herself.

 

You cannot fix her, and you cannot get her to fix herself - for you.

 

You have enough 'damage' of your own to have to deal with, and that's where you need to focus.

On you - an just on you.

 

Because otherwise, this is never, ever, EVER going to go away.

[Eternal Sunshine]

What I can't truly get is how can you hold her, kiss her, or feel any warm feelings towards her? After all this? I just can't see how you can feel anything positive, I would be consumed with anger and hate.

[nightingales]

She actually said you look like a stableboy? Nice girl.

 

Not quite what she meant, it was the "comparison" - you not just heard it, but felt it. What she was saying was, "I thought it would be better to play around with these guys, and they turned out to be chumps. In reality, you were the good one." Well, at least I was.

 

I don't think I can say much besides that we've all been there to some degree. With a partner we know we shouldn't but for some reason couldn't help ourselves. I give you props for being so honest about it, even if you did make an alt just to do so. I also hope you manage to break yourself free of this woman who for some reason seems to enjoy seeing just how much she can torture you and get away with it.

 

Thanks, it hasn't been easy to talk to my friends about this. And its true, at one point she just wanted to hurt me. I don't know why I put up with that - it seems i'm so insecure that I can't help myself. Its ridiculous because: I am attractive, intelligent, and successful. In the time I've dated her, I have denied more than just a few girls - just so I could be with her - because at heart, I am monogamous, its just the way I am.

 

I'm just gonna say this: I don't see here love, not from you and certainly not from her. You are obsessed, perhaps, for her, but love? No, you don't love her, you don't love yourself and you for sure don't love what you guys have (which is actually nothing).

 

Indeed from your perspective, you are correct. But we've had many moments you haven't seen and if you discount that (fairly large) portion of our relationship, the good times are really good. Its just...the bad times are really bad. When its good, it is really amazing and she is incredibly deep, caring, kind and giving. That's why its so horrid to imagine that she has done these things.

 

Maybe you are addicted, like with drugs, thinking tomorrow will be better, or that this is gonna be the last time. Keep consuming this drug despite knowing it will end you.

 

I am absolutely addicted. She is freaking gorgeous. And that is just one of her good qualities. Like a drug, too - its so appealing, and yet it destroys you slowly.

 

If you will argue that you love, than I will question if you ever were in love, ever, in your life, cause you don't seem to know what love is. Trying to put myself in your shoes and the only emotion that I feel is anger, betrayal, but you.. you forgive her, so quickly, time and time again.

 

I'm young. I have time to learn what true love is. What she has shown me through her actions is not love. What she has shown me besides that, it is. She loves me, and hurts me. Its not a good combination. I felt so much anger and betrayal for so long. That is why I am here. I'm trying to fix that. The reason is because, still, I have not forgiven her - but I am dealing with it.

 

Stop with this self pity and accept that you're life is gonna be as miserable as it is now for the rest of it. I wish I believed you'd take care for yourself, but, if a person lets something of this sort to happen so many times, I doubt he has the strength to put an end to it.

 

Perhaps you enjoy it on some deeper level, who knows.

 

But my life is not going to be miserable forever. I have a very bright future ahead of me. It is miserable now because I can't seem to find healing within myself.

 

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

 

"Actions speak louder than Words."

 

"NEVER be prepared to put up with being an Option, when you know you should be the Priority"

 

These are all things I have told her. These are all things she has agreed with me upon, and then told me to look from now on at her actions. One tiny slip up more and she is gone forever.

 

Now, why are you so scared to dump someone who obviously has very little Respect for herself, and even less for you?

 

Why are you so scared to dumps someone for whom you have absolutely Zero Trust?

 

I will answer these myself. I will also tell you that we had this conversation about respect a few days ago. Apparently she has matured to a level where she respects herself. We have yet to see that. As for respect for me? She has been improving in that aspect and being more honest. Why am I scared to dump her when I have no trust for her? Because deep down, I truly hope that she's had enough sense to change and learned from her errors.

 

She's broken.

she's unfixable - by you or anyone else - but her.

She needs help - but she has to see it acknowledge it, 'own' it and do it for herself.

 

You cannot fix her, and you cannot get her to fix herself - for you.

 

You have enough 'damage' of your own to have to deal with, and that's where you need to focus.

On you - an just on you.

 

Because otherwise, this is never, ever, EVER going to go away.

 

That's why I am here. She has been fixing herself and its been a lot easier for her -- I have cynically told her, "Its a lot easier when you get laid because of it." She has recently agreed to counseling, we'll see if that goes anywhere. And she has matured as a person at an astounding rate, it seems this was the experience that has tipped her. But she is by far perfect and has a long way to go. Yes I have damage of my own to deal with, it's been stupid of me to neglect it for so long.

 

What I can't truly get is how can you hold her, kiss her, or feel any warm feelings towards her? After all this? I just can't see how you can feel anything positive, I would be consumed with anger and hate.

 

I was angry for so long. I hated her for so long. I wouldn't touch her or kiss her or hug her. I would barely talk to her. But slowly that faded. Its still there, under the surface, and a lot of the time it shows. But I can't keep focusing on my own anger and hate; it will only lead to my own destruction.

 

She agrees that I have beyond every right to hate her, distrust her, and leave her. She agrees that she doesn't deserve me, which is why she's been making "promises" to be better. Its been showing but its not perfect. I'm not perfect either. She has told me of her own volition that I did not deserve that, I deserved much better care, and she can not believe how she could possibly feel those things that she felt. For a long time that didn't matter to me. Now, I guess, it kind of does. She says she regrets it every single day and wishes she could turn back time - every day. Sometimes out of nowhere, she will come out and say it and I respect that. She tells me it doesn't make it right, and she says she's willing to work as hard as possible to fix things.

 

I told her that I resented not leaving her, for she had not lost me, thus she had no real consequences to her actions. She retorted: "That's not true - I'm living with the consequences every day. I may not have lost the physical side of you, but I lost a part of you that day."

Edited April 27, 2012 by nightingales

[nightingales]

I want to understand why she denies that she would have continued seeing that guy had their encounter been better. I believe it, but she denies it ferociously, saying that no matter what, she was only going to do it one time. I've been struggling a lot with that recently. If their encounter had been better and she started seeing him more, I wouldn't have mattered. As such, since their encounter was bad, she still wanted me - this line of reasoning invalidates our relationship completely because it means she's with me only because he didn't please her.

 

She says its because of the realization that she was giving up true love for pleasure, and even if she had the best time in the world with him, she would have still realized that. I claim that if she had the best time in the world, she would have wanted to see him again and not stopped talking or flirting with him - i.e., she wouldn't have come to the "love vs. pleasure" conclusion, because she'd be too distracted with him.

 

Could she be telling the truth? That no matter what, she only did it out of the physical aspect and the "want" and still planned to be with me? Or is she lying, and if she had a better time, she would have wanted to see him again?

[Reddice]

I'm absolutely, 100% sure she will not change. You will have to come to terms with yourself and either fully accept the situation or break it off. In all honesty, I can see only 2 possibilities for this relationship to work. And quite frankly, you are probably not going to like either of these 2 options:

 

1. You do indeed start an open relationship. This would also mean though that you have to get rid of all sexual taboos. She can sleep around, you can sleep around. Do all kinds of crazy stuf like threesomes, do partner swap, etc etc.

 

2. She goes into prostitution. Become a call girl or something like that. It is not something I have ever adviced, but your GF has serious issues/needs which you cannot meet. And to be honest, she does not seem very picky about who she sleeps with. She just seems to want sex for the kick of it. If she likes sex that much, why doesn't she just make her profession out of it? It's the oldest profession in the world and as long as she's honest with you about this, and as long as you're fine with it, there is nothing wrong with it.

 

Both situations will get rid of most trust issues. In fact, the trust might even restore completely as there is no longer a reason to hide things. You seem to be willing to stay with her no matter what... In that case please consider these two options.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Reddice

[nightingales]

In all honesty, I can see only 2 possibilities for this relationship to work. And quite frankly, you are probably not going to like either of these 2 options

 

I appreciate your input on the situation, but in my opinion, that is terrible advice. We have both made it clear that we do not want an open relationship. If she does claim to want one, I am out. And she will not prostitute, I don't even have to ask her to know the reaction. There are other ways that a relationship between us can work, and most of it involves loyalty, honesty, and understanding.

 

According to her it wasn't about the sex. I believe her somewhat, but I also believe part of it WAS about the sex, and I will explain. When we first started sleeping together, I spoke to one of her friends who told me that she has never had a good sex life and never had a guy give her an orgasm, except for me. I know all girls say this and for the longest time I didn't believe her - but her friend confirmed it without her knowledge (apparently most of her former lovers were selfish, after the first time she said I'm the only one who took the time to make sure she was enjoying it). I still doubt it somewhat, but what good does it do harping on something like that? What if it's true? Our chemistry is good enough either way. After the first time we slept together, when she left she called her friend and said, "I just had the best sex of my life." I know she's had good sex before, but never any earth-shattering, mindblowing sex. I think part of the reason for her venturing out was twofold: 1. to get attention; to feel attracted and wanted, and 2. to see if another guy could give her a good time.

 

I'm absolutely, 100% sure she will not change. You will have to come to terms with yourself and either fully accept the situation or break it off.

I'm curious as to why you say that. Its true that those who cheat do have a tendency to cheat more. But it also rings true that people are capable of change, if willing. At that point, she admitted she was unwilling. Now she claims to be willing to change. Every time she's gone out and cheated, she has had a terrible time. As Tara mentioned, Einstein says - "Insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting different results." We already know she's been insane. Would she purposely do worse, knowing it would most likely hurt her?

 

I am not saying either way: she will change, or she will not change. At this point I do not know. That is why I am here. But in support of her, let me share a recent thread of texts she sent me, completely out of the blue:

 

"Real love doesn't hurt you...it protects you. I am so sorry that I didn't give you what you deserve. I love you. You deserve more love and tenderness. If you want to argue instead of being loving and kind then I get it. But I won't be a part of that. You deserve more love. I love you unconditionally. You are amazing. I am really sorry for hurting you, taking you for granted and not keeping any of my promises. I am truly sorry. ... Your smile makes the world a better place and being with you has made me a better person. I am stupid for hurting you. I just want to express to you how much I am sorry. ... I want to make you happy, really happy. I want you to be happy when you think about me. I want to be the woman that deserves you. I hope I can live up to your standards. I hope you can love me, but after what I did I understand why it can be hard."

 

Why would she say those things if she was unwilling to change - trying to lure me into a false sense of security before she delivers the final, deafening blow? (At the same time I take it with a grain of salt unless she backs it up with her actions).

 

Though its true, she has been very careless, and she admits it is because she has no self-respect.

Edited April 27, 2012 by nightingales

[Professor X]

Maybe she has BPD, who knows. And does it matter? You there to fix her? No, Can you even fix her? No.

 

So what I get is, she's beautiful and that's the only reason you are with her. /sigh

 

But we've had many moments

P.S. I had many moments with my toilet, good ones too, so I don't understand why does it matter at all.

[Reddice]

...We have both made it clear that we do not want an open relationship.

 

No you didn't. She proposed it before and she was serious about it. You refused and she still went ahead with the guy.

 

If she does claim to want one, I am out.

 

No you're not! You're not fooling anyone when you say/write this. She knows you won't leave, we know you won't leave en you know yourself you won't leave.

 

There are other ways that a relationship between us can work, and most of it involves loyalty, honesty, and understanding.

 

No offense, but your relationships lacks all of those characteristics.

 

According to her it wasn't about the sex. I believe her somewhat, but I also believe part of it WAS about the sex, and I will explain. When we first started sleeping together, I spoke to one of her friends who told me that she has never had a good sex life and never had a guy give her an orgasm, except for me. I know all girls say this and for the longest time I didn't believe her - but her friend confirmed it without her knowledge (apparently most of her former lovers were selfish, after the first time she said I'm the only one who took the time to make sure she was enjoying it). I still doubt it somewhat, but what good does it do harping on something like that? What if it's true? Our chemistry is good enough either way. After the first time we slept together, when she left she called her friend and said, "I just had the best sex of my life." I know she's had good sex before, but never any earth-shattering, mindblowing sex. I think part of the reason for her venturing out was twofold: 1. to get attention; to feel attracted and wanted, and 2. to see if another guy could give her a good time.

 

Ok... So let me see if I understand this correctly. Though she had several partners before you, they never satisfied her. You give her the best sex ever! And yet... she's still not had sufficient sex? Does dit not sound like a problem to you?

 

I'm curious as to why you say that. Its true that those who cheat do have a tendency to cheat more. But it also rings true that people are capable of change, if willing. At that point, she admitted she was unwilling. Now she claims to be willing to change.

 

She's not willing to change. She says she is, but she really isn't. This is what you get when you make idle threats.

 

Every time she's gone out and cheated, she has had a terrible time.

 

Wow... Just wow...

 

Why would she say those things if she was unwilling to change - trying to lure me into a false sense of security before she delivers the final, deafening blow?

 

She's not dealing any blow. She might not even be doing it consciously. It's just her nature. She wants and needs to sleep around. There is nothing you can do to prevent it! Ever heard the fable of the scorpion and the frog? If not, then look it up.

 

Though its true, she has been very careless, and she admits it is because she has no self-respect.

 

But then again... neither have you.

 

 

So we know 2 things for sure:

1. She will continue to sleep around.

2. You will not leave her.

 

Why put yourself through all this suffering? Give her the type of relationship she really craves or break it off for good.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Reddice

[skywriter]

A woman like your girlfriend, has the ability to suck the life out of you.

 

She can say this and that all she wants and sure they are some pretty words.

 

The thing is, they are hollow because she hasn't backed them up.

 

You will look back eventually and regret that you let this relationship drag on.

 

She told you, herself, that she is a cake eater. You believe that if you love her enough and rescue her, when she manipulates you with threats of committing suicide, that it will cause her to become somone other than who she is. It hasn't so far.

[veggirl]

Wow. You said it yourself, you are a CHUMP.

 

Your "girlfriend" cheats on you over and over and over and you...make her breakfast, do her laundry, buy her gifts. No wonder she cheats on you, you let her get away with it every single time. She is NEVER going to be faithful to you. She is an immature, wretched, selfish girl who will never be satisfied with one man.

 

Unbelievable. All of it.

 

Get some self respect. This girl doesn't love you. She never will! She LOOOOVES attention. She loves variety! You think that the next hot, sexy, fun, charming new guy at work that shows interest in her isn't gonna get NAKED PICS, MAKE OUTS, AND SEX like the last one did? Hell yeah he will! They all will! Your girl is gonna give it up to whoever strikes her fancy, whoever makes her feel special that day! Then come crawling back to you, where you will apparently be waiting with her laundry done, her floors scrubbed, and dessert in the oven!! OMG.

 

do you wipe her butt for her after she sh.its on your face too????

 

She has NOT changed! She won't change ANYTIME soon. Maybe with some counseling and time a lone she will, but dude that is sooo far from now.

 

This is hopeless. Walk away now. I agree you aren't in love. Your girl isn't capable of love. You might be, but you're just obsessed with this girl, not in love. WHAT IS THERE TO LOVE? she's pretty and kind (sometimes) and charming. Big whoop. she's a walking time bomb who will never be faithful. Ever. You need to pull your head out of your a$s.

 

GO NO CONTACT.

[Professor X]

Wow. You said it yourself, you are a CHUMP.

 

Your "girlfriend" cheats on you over and over and over and you...make her breakfast, do her laundry, buy her gifts. No wonder she cheats on you, you let her get away with it every single time. She is NEVER going to be faithful to you. She is an immature, wretched, selfish girl who will never be satisfied with one man.

 

Unbelievable. All of it.

 

Get some self respect. This girl doesn't love you. She never will! She LOOOOVES attention. She loves variety! You think that the next hot, sexy, fun, charming new guy at work that shows interest in her isn't gonna get NAKED PICS, MAKE OUTS, AND SEX like the last one did? Hell yeah he will! They all will! Your girl is gonna give it up to whoever strikes her fancy, whoever makes her feel special that day! Then come crawling back to you, where you will apparently be waiting with her laundry done, her floors scrubbed, and dessert in the oven!! OMG.

 

do you wipe her butt for her after she sh.its on your face too????

 

She has NOT changed! She won't change ANYTIME soon. Maybe with some counseling and time a lone she will, but dude that is sooo far from now.

 

This is hopeless. Walk away now. I agree you aren't in love. Your girl isn't capable of love. You might be, but you're just obsessed with this girl, not in love. WHAT IS THERE TO LOVE? she's pretty and kind (sometimes) and charming. Big whoop. she's a walking time bomb who will never be faithful. Ever. You need to pull your head out of your a$s.

 

GO NO CONTACT.

 

veggirl is on fire!

[veggirl]

I was eating lunch and thought about this thread, thought I might've been kinda harsh, so I came back to re-read it. I'm still in awe! I found more things to say!

 

There are other ways that a relationship between us can work, and most of it involves loyalty, honesty, and understanding.

 

Your relationship has never had ANY of those things.

 

Its true that those who cheat do have a tendency to cheat more.

 

Yep like your girl did!

 

As Tara mentioned, Einstein says - "Insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting different results." We already know she's been insane. Would she purposely do worse, knowing it would most likely hurt her?

 

Ummm?? How will it hurt her? You have already shown her, 3x (at least) that she can cheat and you will forgive her. She *knows* she can have sex with other guys, get validation from other guys and STILL have you waiting at her door at the end of the day.

 

I am not saying either way: she will change, or she will not change. At this point I do not know. That is why I am here. But in support of her, let me share a recent thread of texts she sent me, completely out of the blue:

 

"Real love doesn't hurt you...it protects you. I am so sorry that I didn't give you what you deserve. I love you. You deserve more love and tenderness. If you want to argue instead of being loving and kind then I get it. But I won't be a part of that. You deserve more love. I love you unconditionally. You are amazing. I am really sorry for hurting you, taking you for granted and not keeping any of my promises. I am truly sorry. ... Your smile makes the world a better place and being with you has made me a better person. I am stupid for hurting you. I just want to express to you how much I am sorry. ... I want to make you happy, really happy. I want you to be happy when you think about me. I want to be the woman that deserves you. I hope I can live up to your standards. I hope you can love me, but after what I did I understand why it can be hard."

 

Why would she say those things if she was unwilling to change - trying to lure me into a false sense of security before she delivers the final, deafening blow? (At the same time I take it with a grain of salt unless she backs it up with her actions).

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It takes 20 seconds to type a text message. Okay, hers was pretty long, that might've taken up to a minute.

 

Though its true, she has been very careless, and she admits it is because she has no self-respect.

 

She has no respect for herself OR for you.

[BewitchedandBothered]

She sounds like a nympho and you have hopes she will change. Doesn't look like she will change. Stop being needy and obsessed, get a hold of yourself; you deserve better.

[drifter777]

My God, what a horrible story! I understand why you don't want us to judge you or call you a whimp and tell you to dump the bitch - you are already torturing yourself with these thoughts and feelings.

 

Here's the thing; you are emotionally damaged from something that happened to you during your childhood. I don't know if you were sexually/physically abused or maybe abandoned by your mother or what, but you really need to get some psychological help. You don't have to suffer like this. You don't have to continue to pursue a woman who hurts, humiliates, and abandons you if you are willing to enter counseling and work on your problems. I have no doubt that your "girlfriend" also has serious issues.

 

I think the two of you are unbelievably bad for each other. You feed each others sicknesses, and your relationship has been reduced to a sick dependency. I'm not trying to hurt you or criticize you or your girlfriend, I'm just telling you there is no magic solution to this, you both need psychological treatment.

[dasein]

So sorry you are having to go through this. This person is doing irreparable damage to you. I have been exactly where you are, but got out at the first cheating, otherwise I recognize the personality type easily. She has personality disorders, likely several comorbid cluster disorders. She will not change and is incurable.

 

You must get professional help. You must get out now. Good luck.