Male dominance and assertiveness? An annoying game.

[joopjoop90]

I'm a 25 year old male that just got out of a relationship, and I'm confused and frustrated.

 

I feel like in my past relationships I didn't stand my ground enough when my girlfriend was being rude to me or was controlling. But, it seems like to solve the issue when a girl is being negative towards you, a man is meant to fight back and be assertive and dominant and "show her who's boss". Or, a man is meant to take control of a situation and be more in control, in general. I wonder if my last girlfriend found this quality of mine unattractive or endearing. I did some pushing back, but perhaps not enough. I spent much of my life with my single mother and sister who told me to never be a douchebag to women, and I took this to heart.

 

I hate playing these games, because I'm somewhat sensitive and non-confrontational (its a blessing and a curse). If a girl is being moody and unreasonable, and is taking it out on her man, is it simply an understood rule of the universe that a man should stand tall and that a woman appreciates this? Should men follow this rule and assert dominance over their girl, or should they stay true to themselves and find someone who appreciates their sensitive nature? To me, I find this situation to be a game that I don't want to play because playing games is not honest. But, I'm not sure whether I'm just too skeptical of typical relationship dynamics, or whether I don't get how things should be played and I'm not performing properly as a male.

 

I've heard many girls sympathize with the men in relationships because they are more reasonable, and are subjected to the perils of being with the complex woman. I'm just so confused about the dynamics between men and women. But, I do tend to over-analyze things, for sure, if this post doesn't already show that.

 

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

[DjinnAgain]

Find a woman without tendency to be controlling.

[jobaba]

I find myself doing this too.

 

When I'm in a relationship, I question if I'm being assertive and manly enough in terms of leading the way and making decisions.

 

When I send little text messages with wink smilies to women or am listening to a Mariah Carey song in the car, I think, "Did they think that was wussy?"

 

I too was born and raised a sensitive passive man, and so its against my nature to be always aggressive and manly. And to me its annoying. I'd really just rather be myself.

 

I'd say in the beginning of a relationship/dating stage, it's important not to come off too much like a wuss, but once you get settled in, it's OK to be more yourself so long as you're not a doormat.

[joopjoop90]

But if you even have to question whether you're assertive enough, is it worth it?

[Els]

Instead of twisting yourself into loops to be 'more manly', IMO you should find a girl who appreciates you for who you are.

 

They really do exist.

[Ruby Slippers]

Don't let people give you crap - women or men. People respect people who stand up for themselves.

[samsungxoxo]

Well while you do have to stand up for yourself, you're not really anyone's boss. All extremes in life are bad. No one likes doormats but neither do we like controlling men.

[zengirl]

Personally, I appreciate a man who doesn't feel the need to 'prove' he's a man and can just be himself. All men are men. There is nothing to prove and no set way you need to be. Hubby is not a 'manly man' type at all (thank God! I hate Alpha male cowboy locker room types) -- he has a purse-sized dog and is currently watching the new "My Little Pony" before he goes to work. Etc etc. (I mean, he also likes baseball and such, I'm not trying to make him one-sided, but my point is "Men do this, not that" type stuff is stupid.) Of course, he can also be assertive when something is important to him and he knows who he is -- those traits are important for us all -- but he doesn't ever endeavor to 'show me who's boss' (nor IS he boss, nor am I boss, etc - that sounds like a terrible R dynamic) or 'act like a man' (how do you even do that? All men just ARE men -- there are many versions of masculinity).

 

Just don't be passive aggressive and be able to authentically assert yourself when you feel the need, and that's all you really have to do.

[Els]

Personally, I appreciate a man who doesn't feel the need to 'prove' he's a man and can just be himself.

 

Right!

 

The ironic thing is that when someone forces himself to be someone whom he is not - ie societally-dictated 'manly-man' and 'dominant', he is actually submitting to societal pressure! Men and women with strong characters don't feel the need to bow to the dictates of society that they dislike and pretend to be someone they're not, IMO.

[dasein]

OP if you cut out the drama laden and ones who get surly and ornery from time to time, you are cutting out a vast majority of otherwise acceptable dating prospects. Women are drama, it's what they do. Of course you nix the ones who are intolerable, but the ones who act bitchy and irrational from time to time? You can handle that, no prob.

 

Think of a drama forcefield around yourself. Drama, irrational emotionalizing, wallowing in "feelings" talk, don't come in or go out, ever, with a GF/SO. If you need to get emotional, vent here or elsewhere, call a family member, best friend, never your GF. Every bit of drama or "feelings" you show a GF will come back to you 10000 times, and by participating in the same weak, unhealthy emotional and drama wallowing they thrive on, you will be a hypocrite when you shut it down. Think of drama and the above as dogs crossing an electric yard fence when they come past your wall, time for a shock. Never let your dogs go past your own fence either.

 

It doesn't take much to condition the relationship the right way, my grandmother would -never- use my grandfather as an emotional punching bag or drama reverberator. By not showing my grandmother any emotion at all other than extremely rarely, my grandfather put himself above that. They were happily married for 70+ years. Women will get this instinctively if you broadcast a "no fly" drama zone around yourself. The deranged, low quality ones will heap scorn on this as being "conflict avoidant" (how dare he refuse to wallow in the same irrational feelings that cripple me! the nerve!). Well to an extent that's what it is exactly, because society denies men the standard form of "conflict resolution" that would be otherwise reasonable when an out of control drama harpy is shrieking in your face. Don't stoop to playing their games, that way goes more and more drama.

 

Here are some "shutdown" phrases:

 

"Spare the drama, just the facts please."

"I'm not interested." (This used very sparingly when they are going unhinged over some minutiae of trivial behavior someone did, one girl undertipped at the dinner, something like that, only once they dwell on it over and over and won't simply say something and let it drop.)

"Sorry you feel that way." (just repeat this over and over up to the point of a pure finality shutdown)

"That's enough on that, you are wearing me out."

"I heard you the first time."

 

Say the above without spite, as neutrally as possible. They will fume the first couple of times, but will immediately begin to see you in a new, more manly light. The bad ones will act out when shut down, dump those.

 

Starting to engage in drama laden behavior with a woman at all in hopes of curbing it, shouting back, etc., is like giving a vampire your arm in hopes it will leave your neck alone, not gonna happen. If you choose to go this path, you must condition yourself.

 

Now this doesn't mean to be some cold sociopath. Positive emotions and feelings are totally cool, laughter, joy, ecstasy, kindness. And encourage those in her too. Those dogs run free both ways. It's also not about healthy negative emotions, such as true grief, loss. The key is to lead the dance in not allowing them to be dwelled on unduly. The time to move on is always nigh with negative emotions. It's only the trivial negative emotions, specifically wallowing in malcontentedness and minutiae that get shut down from the start.

[thatone]

I'm a 25 year old male that just got out of a relationship, and I'm confused and frustrated.

 

I feel like in my past relationships I didn't stand my ground enough when my girlfriend was being rude to me or was controlling. But, it seems like to solve the issue when a girl is being negative towards you, a man is meant to fight back and be assertive and dominant and "show her who's boss". Or, a man is meant to take control of a situation and be more in control, in general. I wonder if my last girlfriend found this quality of mine unattractive or endearing. I did some pushing back, but perhaps not enough. I spent much of my life with my single mother and sister who told me to never be a douchebag to women, and I took this to heart.

 

I hate playing these games, because I'm somewhat sensitive and non-confrontational (its a blessing and a curse). If a girl is being moody and unreasonable, and is taking it out on her man, is it simply an understood rule of the universe that a man should stand tall and that a woman appreciates this? Should men follow this rule and assert dominance over their girl, or should they stay true to themselves and find someone who appreciates their sensitive nature? To me, I find this situation to be a game that I don't want to play because playing games is not honest. But, I'm not sure whether I'm just too skeptical of typical relationship dynamics, or whether I don't get how things should be played and I'm not performing properly as a male.

 

I've heard many girls sympathize with the men in relationships because they are more reasonable, and are subjected to the perils of being with the complex woman. I'm just so confused about the dynamics between men and women. But, I do tend to over-analyze things, for sure, if this post doesn't already show that.

 

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

 

this is very common these days, imo.

 

the first thing to realize to de-condition yourself to this sort of behavior is to realize that everything your sister/mother told you is BS.

 

they told you what sounds good to them but even they don't practice what they preach, i'll bet.

 

women are not that complicated. forget everything you've learned/heard and observe and react. you'll figure it out.

[Avarage]

Don't let people give you crap - women or men. People respect people who stand up for themselves.

This is right on. Or as I was taught "they don't pay you enough to take sh*t off of anybody."

[Feelsgoodman]

I feel like in my past relationships I didn't stand my ground enough when my girlfriend was being rude to me or was controlling. But, it seems like to solve the issue when a girl is being negative towards you, a man is meant to fight back and be assertive and dominant and "show her who's boss". Or, a man is meant to take control of a situation and be more in control, in general.

Women are just like little kids. Without strong male authority, they get confused and wonder astray. Ever notice how children love and respect fathers who are strict but fair while being contemptuous and disrespectful towards weak and spineless fathers who do not discipline them? Women are the same way. They are genetically designed to be the weaker sex and thus respond positively to strong male authority.

 

I wonder if my last girlfriend found this quality of mine unattractive or endearing. I did some pushing back, but perhaps not enough. I spent much of my life with my single mother and sister who told me to never be a douchebag to women, and I took this to heart.

That's your problem right there. You grew up without a strong father figure and have no idea how to deal with women. WOne should NEVER take a woman's advice on what women like or want from men.

[Els]

Women are just like little kids. Without strong male authority, they get confused and wonder astray. Ever notice how children love and respect fathers who are strict but fair while being contemptuous and disrespectful towards weak and spineless fathers who do not discipline them? Women are the same way.

 

Wow. So you think the key to a healthy relationship is for a man to be a 'strict father figure' and to 'discipline' his partner? :confused:

 

How's that working out for you?

[zengirl]

You know, my father figure isn't even as condescending as Feelgoodsman post suggests father figures should be, and I don't think fathers who condescend to their daughters and think women are like little kids, incapable of growing and developing as adults, are generally beloved by their daughters. Nor do I think such men often have healthy relationships in this day and age. At least not from what I've observed.

 

And certainly I didn't look for a father figure in a husband, and I'm quite sure (thankfully) he did not look for a mother figure. Most people I know do not, as they resolve any childhood issues they have before engaging in successful relationships.

 

Both my stepfather (who is my Dad/father figure mentioned above) and my husband would find that post as offensive as I do. Thankfully so!

 

OP, you can choose such a version of manhood if you want, but it certainly isn't the only one or the most successful one. Many successful men can assert themselves without feeling the need to control or condescend to women. All the happy, successful, wonderful men I know certainly can.

[mtber75]

I'm a 25 year old male that just got out of a relationship, and I'm confused and frustrated.

 

I feel like in my past relationships I didn't stand my ground enough when my girlfriend was being rude to me or was controlling. But, it seems like to solve the issue when a girl is being negative towards you, a man is meant to fight back and be assertive and dominant and "show her who's boss". Or, a man is meant to take control of a situation and be more in control, in general. I wonder if my last girlfriend found this quality of mine unattractive or endearing. I did some pushing back, but perhaps not enough. I spent much of my life with my single mother and sister who told me to never be a douchebag to women, and I took this to heart.

 

I hate playing these games, because I'm somewhat sensitive and non-confrontational (its a blessing and a curse). If a girl is being moody and unreasonable, and is taking it out on her man, is it simply an understood rule of the universe that a man should stand tall and that a woman appreciates this? Should men follow this rule and assert dominance over their girl, or should they stay true to themselves and find someone who appreciates their sensitive nature? To me, I find this situation to be a game that I don't want to play because playing games is not honest. But, I'm not sure whether I'm just too skeptical of typical relationship dynamics, or whether I don't get how things should be played and I'm not performing properly as a male.

 

I've heard many girls sympathize with the men in relationships because they are more reasonable, and are subjected to the perils of being with the complex woman. I'm just so confused about the dynamics between men and women. But, I do tend to over-analyze things, for sure, if this post doesn't already show that.

 

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

 

Forget about your sense of "manliness" or lack of. Its really about your confidence level. You were in a relationship with an controlling woman plain and simple. If your not that confident in yourself there are people that exploit that and will ride you to the end...I seen this happen to my close family member and friend. It seems that this happens often to sons who had controlling mothers growing up (can't stand up to women).

 

Best is to find a woman that accepts the way you are. You just have to work on your confidence level and not let anyone exploit you.

[joopjoop90]

I think in the end my girlfriend was a particularly difficult person, and I sort of gave up. I am always confident in myself and I have high self-esteem, but I guess I let someone walk on me, which I wont stand for next time. The fact of the matter is that I don't want someone who I feel like I have to assert myself with, ESPECIALLY not a woman, for whom I feel strong love and emotions for.

[zengirl]

I think in the end my girlfriend was a particularly difficult person, and I sort of gave up. I am always confident in myself and I have high self-esteem, but I guess I let someone walk on me, which I wont stand for next time. The fact of the matter is that I don't want someone who I feel like I have to assert myself with, ESPECIALLY not a woman, for whom I feel strong love and emotions for.

 

Yes, that sounds like a good lesson. We all balance love and respect in our early relationships and learn such lessons.

 

I mean, you have to be able to assert yourself (as in express your feelings, boundaries, and opinions and feel comfortable) with everyone, but if you're in a good R, you will feel that expression of assertiveness is valued and your partner will be free to assert herself as well, and neither of you will do it to 'control' or 'punish' the other, but rather just because they're comfortable being who they are and sharing that with their partner.

[SteveC80]

While its not empowering for them to say most womne ive been with have responded better when i lead its in their nature to be passive and submissive and they feel more feminine

 

Its also not pc to say but most women want a man whos bettrr then them in some respect depending on what they value whter it be money education status height whatever

 

Notice women on here and in general say they want a man they can look "up" to not down to or eye level but "up" to

[joopjoop90]

My girlfriend was incredibly moody, bossy, and could be quite controlling. Not just towards me, but towards her friends and parents as well. I'm not sure whether she wanted someone who put up with her like a puppy dog, or someone who challenged her. Sometimes I challenged, but most times I put up with her, and that brought me down a bit. Next time, I'll assert myself when I think someone is mistreating me.