BSs in the hot seat once again. WHY?

[g450]

I am frequently amazed by the many posters who feel infidelity is completely unforgivable and the only accepted response is to leave and divorce.

 

That is our choice, is it not? Basic common sense. If you come here for advice and opinions, you will get exactly that. If you come into the kitchen, be prepared to take the heat. Honestly, if you dont like the advice given then ignore it. Why all the uneeded drama? I am starting to think that this thread was created just to stir up an argument.

 

I am not familiar with your own situation so I have no context here for that and how it relates to this thread. So from what I gather this entire posting is basically you saying "I got my feeling hurt here". Am I wrong?

 

IMO Infidelity poisons a marriage. To say otherwise would be disengenuous. And a poisoned marriage is a dead marriage.

 

Now note that the following is not directed at you in general, but I get the feeling that I may have at one time contributed to one of your postings.

 

You wrote: "Maybe it just took us longer to figure it out; to identify our true feelings

 

Stealing away years of someones life while you "find yourself" or try to "figure yourself out" should be a crime. If you are not sure about yourself how the hell can you expect total and utter commitment from another person when you have no intention of returning that commitment yourself?

 

If your not ready for marriage then dont get married. Simple as that. And if you say your vows then you will be held accountable for breaking them. Simple as that.

 

I just love this new "Oprah Winfrey" generation that thinks nothing of destroying the work, hopes and dreams of another human being just so they can find themselves. I guess its all part of the "if it feels good, do it" fallout of the 60s.

 

I am all for fighting for a marriage. I fought for mine until I realized how futile it was. Like it or not, most of the folks that come here will end up separated, divorced and heartbroken regardless. And most of the examples I see here are not worth saving and are way past salavaging. I just call them how I see them.

 

If people come here for a cheerleader for saving the marriage then most will be dissapointed. The reason for this is that once one party tells her or his spouse they are done, they most often were done long before the BS ever even knows it. Nothing you the BS or we can do about it except give our own advice on how we handled our own situation. Most of us here will be brutally honest with you because it's the truth. Unfortunately some cant handle the truth. Most failed marriages are not worth fighting for. It just prolonges the inevitable and prolongs the pain the BS suffers and keeps them from healing like they should. They stay stuck. I have seen people here that have been here for years on their own admitance still obsesing and pining over their X when their X could give a rats azz about them.

 

And for the record, NOBODY here is happy to divorce their cheater. They are hurt and angry. And to think they should be otherwise is not being fair to them. They have the right to feel that way because they were done wrong. Some will say they are glad to get rid of the cheater, sure. But that usually takes years on down the road once they recover.

 

Fact is some BS will hear things here that will be painful for them. That's life. It's called tough love and honesty. Look it up.

 

I am an adult and as an adult I believe people should own their mistakes and be responsible for their crap. This is why you wont see me ever being a cheerleader for a WS, ever! But I will be honest and helpful to a BS if they want my opinion. I have found though that not all of the BS actually come here for sound advice. Some even utterly reject good advice because they make up their minds of what they want and they have blinders on to the reality of their situation. Some only come here for supports of what they think they are doing right, even though most often they do the wrong things, i.e. persue the cheater, cry, plead, play games with the WS etc. All the things you are NOT supposed to do.

 

Then there are others that simply refuse to come to terms that their marriage is over. They will live in this forum for years asking for advice on how to handle some little meaningless breadcrum their long lost X threw them. It's sad. This is why most times I am bruttaly honest with them.

Im not here because I want to win a popularity contest. Im here because, believe it or not. I want to help the BS.

 

You asked for it so...

That's my two cents worth.

[findingnemo]

I am frequently amazed by the many posters who feel infidelity is completely unforgivable and the only accepted response is to leave and divorce.

 

So was I when I first came here. But people are different. To some the basic foundation of a M is the love between the spouses. So infidelity is like a nuclear bomb that destroys everything. To me, a M encompasses a lot of things. The love between spouses is only a part of it. In my view, infidelity is a very painful thing for the BS. But what's more painful to me is the breaking up of my home. When I was cheated on I stayed. It wasn't because I loved my H and needed him sexually. It was because I wanted my children to stay in a home with both parents. As for our sex life, I was determined to keep fighting my H on that front. I wouldn't sleep with him or let him touch me. But I'd be damned if my H's actions affected my kids' lives.

 

It often is the correct response, certainly it must have been the right choice for those who did it; who knew in their hearts that they could never forgive and the relationship was over. That takes courage and I applaud you!

 

But for others, they almost have a hatred, a vitriol, for spouses who, while in enormous pain following infidelity, are still in the trenches trying to fight for the marriage; are still hoping to honor their vows and retain or preserve the integrity they have always had.

 

Was I honoring my vows when I decided to stay? No I wasn't. But my M was, to me, a lot more than my vows. My H broke his vows and therefore they were no longer a factor. I wouldn't love and cherish him, or obey him. All that he forfeited when he f'ed around. What I was trying to preserve was a safe haven, a home for me and my children. So from that angle, I totally understand a BS choosing to stay M. It doesn't mean in my mind that they have forgiven their Ws, or that they suddenly trust them or even that they like them. To me it's a choice to maintain some form of normalcy even when something important has been broken.

 

We didn't cheat, but damn! We are NOT stupid. Maybe it just took us longer to figure it out; to identify our true feelings --no easy feat while in the sh##storm of betrayal pain.

 

Maybe some of us will divorce down the road. Maybe some of us realized we could and should reconcile.

 

We are just NOT as angry as so many of you who post here.

 

So, I guess, I do not understand why some are so angry that I, and others like me, chose to give it a shot, my all, to preserve what I thought was a good, often great relationship.

 

If you were so happy to have divorced the cheater, why are some still so angry, and angry about infidelity?

 

I agree with you. I am personally separated and heading for D. Does that make me happy? If it was just me in the equation, I suppose it's possible to say a D would bring me happiness. I've been separated for almost 3 years, but I'm far from happy. My children still love their father and have no clue about his shortcomings. They aren't doing very well with the whole moving back and forth. They consider that they have two homes. I so wish my H wasn't a total b**tard and that we could have had the kinds of problems we could work out.

 

If a man chooses to work on his marriage, he isn't ALWAYS a coward or a cuckold.

 

If a woman chooses to work on her marriage, it isn't ALWAYS because she needed to win or had no other options.

 

So, just like many in the OW/OM forum who come for support and get slammed, the same is true here too!

 

 

Does anyone understand this?

 

Not only do we have to deal with the pain of betrayal, but when we first come here, so many get slammed for trying to give the marriage a fighting chance.

 

Thoughts?

 

What I object to and what I think you're objecting to is the tendency for some to blatantly insult the OP just because they don't seem to be doing what's needed. The blatant insults are one thing and are easily dealt with. There are more insidious ways to insult a person. One example is to call them out on supposed choices made years ago. Another way, when one has exhausted all possible arguments, is to make a direct attack on a poster by implying that due to their post history and their story, it's no wonder that they would think like that. Basic intellectual laziness, if you ask me.

 

But I see these things happening in waves. In the OW/OM forum, there was a time when an fOW who said they are sorry they ever had an A was attacked. They were told that theirs was a bad A because 1)their MM wasn't genuine, 2) they had nothing real to offer and 3) that if they weren't happy in their As, they shouldn't assume others weren't. These days there's less of that. This idea of bashing WS' by telling them repeatedly that they are liars and deserve all the pain they go through is also a time wasting thing. Not only does it unnecessarily aggravate other posters into defending the OP, I don't understand how one gains anything from causing someone they don't know pain.

 

One positive thing is that attitudes change on LS. Perhaps people who are angry and bitter get tired and leave or change with time. Who knows? I just know that eventually logic prevails. Eventually those that cross the line are banned and we remain with a group of people who are diverse in their opinions but deliver them politely and with the intention to help - whether in agreement or not.

[woinlove]

What I object to and what I think you're objecting to is the tendency for some to blatantly insult the OP just because they don't seem to be doing what's needed. The blatant insults are one thing and are easily dealt with. There are more insidious ways to insult a person. One example is to call them out on supposed choices made years ago. Another way, when one has exhausted all possible arguments, is to make a direct attack on a poster by implying that due to their post history and their story, it's no wonder that they would think like that. Basic intellectual laziness, if you ask me.

 

But I see these things happening in waves. In the OW/OM forum, there was a time when an fOW who said they are sorry they ever had an A was attacked. They were told that theirs was a bad A because 1)their MM wasn't genuine, 2) they had nothing real to offer and 3) that if they weren't happy in their As, they shouldn't assume others weren't. These days there's less of that. This idea of bashing WS' by telling them repeatedly that they are liars and deserve all the pain they go through is also a time wasting thing. Not only does it unnecessarily aggravate other posters into defending the OP, I don't understand how one gains anything from causing someone they don't know pain.

 

One positive thing is that attitudes change on LS. Perhaps people who are angry and bitter get tired and leave or change with time. Who knows? I just know that eventually logic prevails. Eventually those that cross the line are banned and we remain with a group of people who are diverse in their opinions but deliver them politely and with the intention to help - whether in agreement or not.

 

Good post. Not sure things change here so much as go in waves. Sometimes you catch a wave where it is okay to be sorry or whatever, but it doesn't usually last. Still I am always struck by the thick skins of so many on the Infidelity forum which mixes WS still lying and betraying their spouses with these reeling from the pain of discovery of betrayal and both groups looking for support at the same time.

 

And, TigerCub - I like your truths.

[Spark1111]

Well first off "perception is reality" is indeed something we all have to deal with in all aspects of everyday life. We deal with it at our workplaces, in our relationships with others, and often even in our intimate relationships at home.

 

There are a lot of individuals who choose to remain in the perceptive world rather than face realities. But that's a whole separate topic.

 

I think with regard to your last sentence a lot of it is how you present a line like that.

 

1. Your WS is a liar.

2. It sounds like your WS may be less than truthful.

 

Surely anyone can see the difference between the two.

 

Being direct is fine and I'm a direct person in real life. But here, in a forum like this where we only know each other on the surface, a little tact goes a long ways, and I think it's more appropriate to suggest our beliefs with kindness and concern rather than coming across as insulting and demeaning.

 

It is not even tact or tactless.

 

I admire straight shooters. I admire those who have the courage to stand behind their convictions.

 

I have even defended many of them posting here, and that includes those who ALWAYS find cheating to be wrong, immoral and hurtful and say so.

 

But, when posters arrive here IN PAIN, and turmoil and confusion, and are told every single time to kick the lying skank or sc##bag to the curb, I do not think that is helpful.....EVEN IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WOUND UP DOING.

 

Please think back to those early days and try to empathize, whether it be BS, AP, or WS.....YES, even WSs are often in pain and in great fear.

 

I am not talking of the arrogant who seek no one's counsel and just try to convince us ALL how right they are and how wrong everyone else is.

 

They have been quite a few of those too.

[Spark1111]

That is our choice, is it not? Basic common sense. If you come here for advice and opinions, you will get exactly that. If you come into the kitchen, be prepared to take the heat. Honestly, if you dont like the advice given then ignore it. Why all the uneeded drama? I am starting to think that this thread was created just to stir up an argument.

 

I grew up in the kitchen. Hurl at me whatever you want. I'm started this thread because of the treatment of others. Call me the founder of PETP- People for the Ethical Treatment of Posters.

 

I am not familiar with your own situation so I have no context here for that and how it relates to this thread. So from what I gather this entire posting is basically you saying "I got my feeling hurt here". Am I wrong?

 

SUGGESTION 1: If you are really trying to help, advise or opine to aposter, try reading their prior posts to gain an understanding that actually may make your advice accurate.

 

You are wrong.

 

IMO Infidelity poisons a marriage. To say otherwise would be disengenuous. And a poisoned marriage is a dead marriage.

 

NOT always. Not every time. Some of us have resurrected and reconciled ours.

 

Now note that the following is not directed at you in general, but I get the feeling that I may have at one time contributed to one of your postings.

 

You wrote: "Maybe it just took us longer to figure it out; to identify our true feelings

 

Stealing away years of someones life while you "find yourself" or try to "figure yourself out" should be a crime. If you are not sure about yourself how the hell can you expect total and utter commitment from another person when you have no intention of returning that commitment yourself?

 

I was willing to give myself time. So was he. It worked in our situation. It may not it all, but it has in some.

 

If your not ready for marriage then dont get married. Simple as that. And if you say your vows then you will be held accountable for breaking them. Simple as that.

 

On this, we agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

I just love this new "Oprah Winfrey" generation that thinks nothing of destroying the work, hopes and dreams of another human being just so they can find themselves. I guess its all part of the "if it feels good, do it" fallout of the 60s.

 

I am all for fighting for a marriage. I fought for mine until I realized how futile it was. Like it or not, most of the folks that come here will end up separated, divorced and heartbroken regardless. And most of the examples I see here are not worth saving and are way past salavaging. I just call them how I see them.

 

That's okay. Once in awhile, it would be refreshing for some posters to admit, they could be wrong.

 

If people come here for a cheerleader for saving the marriage then most will be dissapointed. The reason for this is that once one party tells her or his spouse they are done, they most often were done long before the BS ever even knows it. Nothing you the BS or we can do about it except give our own advice on how we handled our own situation. Most of us here will be brutally honest with you because it's the truth. Unfortunately some cant handle the truth. Most failed marriages are not worth fighting for. It just prolonges the inevitable and prolongs the pain the BS suffers and keeps them from healing like they should. They stay stuck. I have seen people here that have been here for years on their own admitance still obsesing and pining over their X when their X could give a rats azz about them.

 

On this we agree! AGAIN, if 5 years have gone by and you are still angry or upset by the decision you did make, something IS wrong.

 

And for the record, NOBODY here is happy to divorce their cheater. They are hurt and angry. And to think they should be otherwise is not being fair to them. They have the right to feel that way because they were done wrong. Some will say they are glad to get rid of the cheater, sure. But that usually takes years on down the road once they recover.

 

See above. You can nurse the hurt and hate the cheater till the day you die. But you may not have a very happy life. SO, once again, they won. They robbed you of all joy forever.

 

Fact is some BS will hear things here that will be painful for them. That's life. It's called tough love and honesty. Look it up.

 

"Look it up." Snide, sarcastic, superior in tone and very condescending. YOU just proved the point of this thread. Very unneccesary, IMHO.

 

I am an adult and as an adult I believe people should own their mistakes and be responsible for their crap. This is why you wont see me ever being a cheerleader for a WS, ever! But I will be honest and helpful to a BS if they want my opinion. I have found though that not all of the BS actually come here for sound advice. Some even utterly reject good advice because they make up their minds of what they want and they have blinders on to the reality of their situation. Some only come here for supports of what they think they are doing right, even though most often they do the wrong things, i.e. persue the cheater, cry, plead, play games with the WS etc. All the things you are NOT supposed to do.

 

True! But if I want someone to listen to me, really listen to me, I have to come from my own experience...and with kindness, so the ears open up, KWIM?

 

Then there are others that simply refuse to come to terms that their marriage is over. They will live in this forum for years asking for advice on how to handle some little meaningless breadcrum their long lost X threw them. It's sad. This is why most times I am bruttaly honest with them.

Im not here because I want to win a popularity contest. Im here because, believe it or not. I want to help the BS.

 

Me too. And I believe you. And I agree that is sadness when people do NOT heal and are still projecting there anger on everyone and every thread here.

 

You asked for it so...

That's my two cents worth.

 

Thank you!

[thomasb]

I am with Spark. My marriage is not only better than ever. We are one. Spiritually and physically. It was hard work. A person who has not had to recover from infidelity within their marriage has no clue how hard it truly is to do. It has been long over a decade for us, and now I only think of it when my day at the office is boring and I log on here!

If anyone within my arms reach called my wife weak for giving me a second chance, I'd have to show them their teeth. On the floor.

[Steen719]

I have done both with the same person. The first time, I reconciled with my XH. Am sorry I did it? I can't say for sure. Good memories and you know, it might have turned out he was just a one time cheater. The second time, I divorced him. BOTH were extremely difficult, both required a lot of introspection and both decisions were made by me, not anyone else. Happy is not a word I would use for either, really.

 

Calling others names is not helpful. Telling them what you have experienced is. If someone does not want to listen to me, I believe that is their choice. I just don't post anymore. I feel bad for the posters who continue to rail against what is in front of them, but I am not going to keep on trying to dissuade or persuade them or call them names.

 

I am happy for those people who have reconciled and are happy. I wish that I had done things differently. I wish I had examined my reconciliation more and I wish I had this forum at that time to read about the kinds of things necessary for a REAL reconciliation. But, I think everyone who has been hurt by a WS will forever sleep with one eye open...I will, anyway.

[jwi71]

Way late to the party here Spark.

Its southern thing so Im allowed be to be late.

 

We both joined around the same time.

Have you noticed that Infidelity and OW/OM undulate?

At times healthy, helpful and appropriate. Then it degenerates into a pain fueled hate-fest.

Enter mods.

Cleans up.

Becomes healthy, helpful and appropriate.

Then slide back into "the crap".

Is cyclical.

Be patient, the rabble-rousers will get sentenced to oblivion. I totally used "rabble-rousers" in a sentence today. Kudos to me!

[SomedayDig]

I hit Like on jwi's post because of the use of the word "rabble-rousers". It's been a long time since I've heard that one! Love it. LOL

[Spark1111]

I am with Spark. My marriage is not only better than ever. We are one. Spiritually and physically. It was hard work. A person who has not had to recover from infidelity within their marriage has no clue how hard it truly is to do. It has been long over a decade for us, and now I only think of it when my day at the office is boring and I log on here!

If anyone within my arms reach called my wife weak for giving me a second chance, I'd have to show them their teeth. On the floor.

 

:laugh::laugh:

 

thomasb, I hope my H would do the same!

 

This took a tremendous amount of courage and patience....and even then, I remained unsure for a long time if both he and I would have what it took to do so.

 

It takes two, it always has. Had he been less remorseful, less willing to do the heavy lifting, unwilling to seek therapy....I to would be divorced today.

 

I GET THAT.

 

I wish some would get that for us, it DID work out.

[Spark1111]

I am of the mind that everyone has an idea of what they would do in a given situation, some, when faced with that situation find themselves making a totally different call than they imagined they might. Their choice, their situation and for each, they base their actions on what they know.

No BS chooses to be a BS, few of us imagine we would or could ever be one, what we do on D Day is based upon our choice, stay or go, it is, or at least for me, it was that simple. I had a choice and my decision was based upon my information about our marriage pre A, the man my H was before the circumstances when he was an a*** and his actions on D Day and his and my, expectations of reconciliation. All this based upon informed choice, which was the one thing during the A that was missing. Had he had an A without all the issues in place that were, my choice might have been different. Who knows.

 

We each are answerable to ourselves, any choices we make are those that are best for us. It is pointless trying to say a person is foolish or naive for not taking the path we choose, we aren't them, don't live their life and don't really know the full picture, so we can and should, IMHO, offer advice without attack. How can another attack someone for their choices? Pretty pointless and achieves nothing. Although if someone is knowingly hurting another, they might expect the odd lambasting.

 

I had plenty of people who thought I would leave, this based upon who they thought I was, seems they forgot that I loved my H and was able to forgive, not forget, but it was my choice, if they chose to talk about me behind my back, then that said more about them than me. I live by my choices and never, ever do anything that I don't really want to or that doesn't enriche my life. I chose to stay with my H because I loved him, he is the person I want to make old bones with and I choose to stay because I would have missed him and us terribly. if I couldn't forgive, then I would have left. No question.

 

For those who weighed up all the pros and cons on D Day and beyond and decided to divorce, well that's their choice and their boat to row. Not for me to say they are right or wrong, that would be very presumptious and based on my view. Why should they even give a toss what an anonymous person on the internet does or thinks. I would advise anyone to listen to their own voice and to do what is right for them. BS who stay are always going to be thought of as stupid, too trusting, doormats whatever by those who think that. TBH, it matters little in the long run, but it does get tiresome when it isn't support or advice and just earbashing all the time, I wonder what people get out of that. I didn't choose to share the man I love with anyone, it is outside anything I would choose to do, I do choose to share my life with my H after we have worked on us, my life my choice. If people don't like it, that's OK, they aren't living my life.

 

Spark, you know your reality, no one else does and you are happy, so just keep rowing that boat.

 

Seren, your posts are always so wise and filled with so much compassion.

 

I think you have described beautifully all the assaults on all the fronts a BS faces: family, friends, siblings, the WS, the OW/OM, children and the whirling, twirling emotions that overlap and collide in trying to make decisions on what boat you will row into the future.

 

And that takes time for many to figure out where their heart lies and in which river they want to row.

[Spark1111]

I hit Like on jwi's post because of the use of the word "rabble-rousers". It's been a long time since I've heard that one! Love it. LOL

 

Hmmm....now isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

 

jwi is a rabble-rouser of the finest order. He always makes me THINK.

 

Love the word myself!

[Spark1111]

Rather than get caught up with the subsequent arguments, I'd like to comment on your original post.

 

I totally agree that this (infidelity) forum has gotten nastier over the past few months. Some of that may be attributed to threads recently posted by BS's who are still suffering from the initial pain, confusion, and denial and seem to be doing everything "wrong". Some posters feel they need to shock them back to reality. I've been guilty of this myself, although I fully realize that most people will not blindly take advice from others. They need to live through it and learn for themselves. If they begin to experience pretty much what other BS's on this forum have predicted then they often begin to give more weight to the advice & feedback they get here. One example of this would be Kidd and the way his story began and the progression since then.

 

I have rules regarding my contributions to this forum. I avoid threads posted by women who's husbands have cheated because I have no point of reference for that subject. I advise differently if a BS is not married and/or has no children in that I don't believe that the long road of true reconciliation is worth the pain in this case. I firmly believe that both BS & WS are better off divorcing and starting their lives over in these cases. I try, I really try, to frame any advice I offer as coming from my own personal opinion based on my own personal experiences. I also try to focus more on the BS's personal recovery than anything else. I firmly believe that the BS needs to take care of themselves before making important decisions. To often I see desperate BS's offering cheap forgiveness to their WS in an attempt to make the pain stop without realizing that this decision will explode later on.

 

In my opinion, many BS's come here shortly after d-day because they are devastated and desperately looking for help. Many BS's come here because they are still struggling with some aspects of their WS's affair after the passing of much time. Obviously, some BS's posting here are extremely bitter while others are (mostly) satisfied with how they chose to deal with things. None of them are wrong, they just are coming from different places with different experiences.

 

I like that you have rules for yourself drifter...that is a fair way to approach posting.

 

You always speak from your own personal experience.

 

I respect that.

 

I wish others did too...or at least, used a disclaimer such as "I divorced the minute I discovered my spouse cheating and never looked back. So I say ditch 'em cause you will never trust them again. I know I didn't."

 

That's fair, no?

[The Blue Knight]

It is not even tact or tactless.

 

I admire straight shooters. I admire those who have the courage to stand behind their convictions.

 

I have even defended many of them posting here, and that includes those who ALWAYS find cheating to be wrong, immoral and hurtful and say so.

But, when posters arrive here IN PAIN, and turmoil and confusion, and are told every single time to kick the lying skank or sc##bag to the curb, I do not think that is helpful.....EVEN IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WOUND UP DOING.

 

Please think back to those early days and try to empathize, whether it be BS, AP, or WS.....YES, even WSs are often in pain and in great fear.

 

I am not talking of the arrogant who seek no one's counsel and just try to convince us ALL how right they are and how wrong everyone else is.

 

They have been quite a few of those too.

Agree very much with the bold sentences Spark.

 

While someone's "infidelity" experience is a nice thing to seek out for those caught in their newly discovered infidelity hell, people have to keep what you said above in mind. This is all completely "right out of the box" new to that betrayed spouse. They can't even wrap their brains around what just happened to them. The minutes and the hours tick by with a feeling that you're transferring back and forth from the surreal to real throughout the day.

 

Then, on top of all of that, to have someone beating you up because you didn't perform the list that they gave you on loveshack of their do's and don'ts is just a bit too much.

 

Frankly, I wish I had a place like this to come to when my ex-wife cheated on me. I had countless books available and read over a dozen, but not a great many people to talk too, and certainly not people who had experienced marital affairs. I mean, I had hundreds of friends, but it's not like you want to advertise your situation to everyone you've ever met over the span of 30 years. So for me, I picked those two or three people in my life who were closest to me and who I trusted to have very sound judgement.

 

For most of it however, I'd describe it as feeling your way through the dark. If that's a good description, then those of us who have been there need to be the illumination to help "guide" but not "demand" of those stuck in that awful abyss.

 

One thing I do know, and I think I can speak for NH on this matter as well, and probably WFBack and a few others while I'm at it. I wouldn't have liked anyone posting insulting or demeaning remarks at me for not following "their prescribed formula" while I was trying to cope with my marriage blowing up in front of my face, and the countless unknowns that come at you like a cascade of unceasing emotions.

 

Post your thoughts, stand by them, be honest, feel free to be direct, but try a little kindness and a bit more understanding. Put yourself back where you were when it happened to you. I don't think that's asking too much of anyone who is really "trying to help."

Edited April 28, 2012 by The Blue Knight

[seren]

I totally agree Blue Knight, I too remember the early days and the not having anyone to turn to IRL, after all, the person I would normally have turned to when life when to hell in a handbasket was my H and at times I just wanted to tie a weight to his leg and throw him into the sea alongside wanting him to gather me up and make it all go away. I stumbled onto a number of sites by typing infidelity into the google box. I ended up on a very well known OW/OM site and poured my heart out, only to be roasted alive as a troll and BS. I couldn't understand how no one could or would understand that I was looking and searching for some understanding. I look back on those times and think that unless you had lived it, then you had no dammed idea how it felt. I was a, it will never, ever happen to me, to us, yet it did.

 

LS was and has been a lifeline for me, to read that others were feeling the same way, Spark especially as we joined around the same time and Owl with his sage advice. I took heart that someone understood, that feeling sick to the pit of my stomach was normal and that there was a light at the end of the tunnel, if and only if, we addressed issues, talked and all the other bits and pieces of advice others offered. I reeled from so called tough love, it hurt and bruised an already hurt and bruised me. I wasn't ready for hammering, I needed solace, a safe place, the hammering could come later and If I didn't need it, could ask for others to stop until I was ready for it.

 

I had some support from OW/OM, some of whom are now banned and some of the more vociferous supporters of A's, they helped me too and I understood that underneath we are all just people trying to make sense of crap situations. I don't understand those who post without trying to take on board that people may be hurt, the verbal ping pong that goes on, is, IMO, egotistic and I just wish they would go join online Scrable if they feel the need to win. If what you (general, as are all my you, we comments) post is going to hurt, then don't post or make it general. I also don't get how people who have no experience of infidelity can truly understand the maelstrom of emotions, empathise, sure, but truly get it, no I don't think so.

[beenburned]

There was so many good people on LS!

 

I wish I had a place like this to go to back when I had my d-day!

 

Years ago, things like this were not discussed in public.

 

I only confided in my parents and asked their advise. I was advised to try and work it out for the sake of the children. I felt like they totally dismissed all of my feelings toward my H and our marriage.

 

I had moved 300 miles when I married to live in his hometown. I knew no one except for his immediate family. After d-day I felt totally isolated and felt like I had no support in what I was dealing with. I got so depressed I had to ask my doctor for some anti-depressants just to be able to cope with my daily life. Other than books to read on the subject, I had no road map to follow.

 

Sometimes it totally amazes me that we made it in the long run.

[Spark1111]

I remember feeling so, so alone. I threw him out the day I confronted him, four days after DDay.

 

I talked to a few very trusted friends and family members.

 

For some married friends, my infidelity struck a cord of terror: "I would never stay with my H if he cheated" (UGH!) and the female nerve of insecurity: "Was she younger? Thinner? Better housekeeper? Cook?"

 

Uh, no, I don't think so, to all of the above. They worked together was all I knew.

 

His sister: Take him back. Look, my H cheated (HE DID????) and we are ok.

 

No, I don't think so.

 

My brother: "You need to tell him EXACTLY what he needs to do get back in the house." I will think on that (actually,pretty good advice.)

 

My mother, much older and a devout Christian: Take him back or you will lose everything. Me: I've already lost it all.

 

My IC: Not so experienced in this at all! When he began to write down the sites that were helping me, I knew that for certain. But rather than sharing my righteous indignation and anger, he very subtley began to point out how weak and needy --vulnerable? depressed? my spouse was to live that life because confident, happy people DO end marriages, but do NOT do anything as self-destructive as have an affair. It helped.

 

When I found LS about nine months later, what a relief to realize that there were people out there going through the very same thing I was.

 

Like group therapy, it was salvation for me to have others to talk to. I could share here what I could not share anywhere else.

 

I like to pay it forward.

[Ninja'sHusband]

It's funny because I found LS probably within 1 week of Dday, but it took me 4 months to post. Actually I had started to post on some infidelity site early on but didn't actually click the button to fire it off.

 

Part of what stopped me was the acronyms....so many of them, I'd just get lost reading the threads. Also I didn't trust anyone because most of the forum type discussions were like "LEAVE THEM, I'D NEVER TAKE THAT!!" So I was pretty afraid of forums in general because I didn't really think people were realistic or humane about it. So yeah, when you post such harsh advice...you actually scare off people, people who don't even have accounts yet. I continued reading and doing IC\MC until I hit a point where I needed answers that simply didn't seem to be in books or come from my counselor. LS and SI were actually really good for what I asked. The problem is people answer questions that weren't asked. For me it was, "Should I demand she quit the dojo?"...but of course instead I get of a lot of "LEAVE HER LEAVE HER YOU CUCKOLD". Now really? Did I ask if you thought I should leave her? Nope, not once in...uhhh...85 pages now? have I ever asked that... I guess that's one thing people should pay more attention to. What's the question the OP actually asked?? If you answer a question besides the one asked, it is unsolicited advice and may very well meet with resistance, resentment, or just straight up get ignored. It will serve to drive them off the site. OWL in particular seems to be good at focusing on the question actually asked. Many others? Not so much.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[tears_in_rain]

I only joined LS a month and a bit a go as a response of my wife walking out on me out of the blue and I wanted to get her back. I had no one to talk to about my problems as my close friends were all out of the country working or travelling when I needed them most. I wasn't particularly close to my mother either at that time. One little google search later and I find LS with loads of people in the same or similar boat. I posted an honest account of my situation and got honest responses and harsh realities in the process.

 

I am so grateful for the sanctuary that LS has afforded me. Without it I don't think I would feel as strong as I feel now and that isn't that strong.

 

Like many I came looking for answers. Why did this happen ? What did I do wrong ? Give me a quick fix answer to solve this. I quickly realised that there is no red or blue pill to take. Each situation is unique although there may be similarities and patterns. Some people post about healing yourself, some about looking within to make you consider what part you might have played in the separation and others point out red flags or consider their similarities or differences to your situation. To me all opinions are welcome. All analysis is food for thought.

 

I went from the initial stages of shock and grief, desperate for answers and solutions. I flipped between thinking there was a chance of reconciliation to accepting I had lost my wife. Then as I dug for intel for myself I started seeing that the red flags I found were the same red flags that posters were seeing. I went from thinking I was a BS to denial again until two days ago when I found the smoking gun.

 

In my case the one boundary that must not be cross and that my wife also extolled was that of infidelity. We both agreed that this would be the end and we both understood that this would be the ultimate betrayal. Guess what she walked out because she was having an affair. She denies it to my face and is definitely wrapped deep in the fog.

 

I have considered deeply whether or not to reconcile even after the ultimate betrayal. I have decided that it is not worth the time, pain and trust. It helps that we have no children in the marriage. We were supposed to be starting to try for them when D-Day dropped.

 

If I were to look through my wife's eyes and I had had an affair I know her response would be identical to mine. Goodbye. Divorce.

So that is what I'm looking at now.

 

I can see the hurt and bitter responses from a minority of posters but overall I think there are many who give measured opinions which gives pause to thought. Considering that infidelity is one of the worst things that can happen in a relationship I can fully understand peoples anger and bitterness.

But in the end we can pick and choose what we do in our own situations. We have the free will to do what is best for us. Anything less and we might as well follow the Pied Piper off the cliff with the rest of the rats.

[The Blue Knight]

I remember feeling so, so alone. I threw him out the day I confronted him, four days after DDay.

 

I talked to a few very trusted friends and family members.

 

For some married friends, my infidelity struck a cord of terror: "I would never stay with my H if he cheated" (UGH!) and the female nerve of insecurity: "Was she younger? Thinner? Better housekeeper? Cook?"

 

Uh, no, I don't think so, to all of the above. They worked together was all I knew.

 

His sister: Take him back. Look, my H cheated (HE DID????) and we are ok.

 

No, I don't think so.

 

My brother: "You need to tell him EXACTLY what he needs to do get back in the house." I will think on that (actually,pretty good advice.)

 

My mother, much older and a devout Christian: Take him back or you will lose everything. Me: I've already lost it all.

 

My IC: Not so experienced in this at all! When he began to write down the sites that were helping me, I knew that for certain. But rather than sharing my righteous indignation and anger, he very subtley began to point out how weak and needy --vulnerable? depressed? my spouse was to live that life because confident, happy people DO end marriages, but do NOT do anything as self-destructive as have an affair. It helped.

 

When I found LS about nine months later, what a relief to realize that there were people out there going through the very same thing I was.

 

Like group therapy, it was salvation for me to have others to talk to. I could share here what I could not share anywhere else.

 

I like to pay it forward.

I'm not quite sure where you're mother was coming from on that one Spark. A devout Christian should be very much aware of the adultery clause as an exception allowing for divorce in the New Testament. Her advice sounds oddly materialistic.

 

If one of my kids grows up to experience a spouse who cheats on them, I'll give them my advice based on what I know of their circumstances, but I'd certainly support what they decide to do. I don't think "you'll lose everything" would even be something that would roll off my lips.

[The Blue Knight]

It's funny because I found LS probably within 1 week of Dday, but it took me 4 months to post. Actually I had started to post on some infidelity site early on but didn't actually click the button to fire it off.

 

Part of what stopped me was the acronyms....so many of them, I'd just get lost reading the threads. Also I didn't trust anyone because most of the forum type discussions were like "LEAVE THEM, I'D NEVER TAKE THAT!!" So I was pretty afraid of forums in general because I didn't really think people were realistic or humane about it. So yeah, when you post such harsh advice...you actually scare off people, people who don't even have accounts yet. I continued reading and doing IC\MC until I hit a point where I needed answers that simply didn't seem to be in books or come from my counselor. LS and SI were actually really good for what I asked. The problem is people answer questions that weren't asked. For me it was, "Should I demand she quit the dojo?"...but of course instead I get of a lot of "LEAVE HER LEAVE HER YOU CUCKOLD". Now really? Did I ask if you thought I should leave her? Nope, not once in...uhhh...85 pages now? have I ever asked that... I guess that's one thing people should pay more attention to. What's the question the OP actually asked?? If you answer a question besides the one asked, it is unsolicited advice and may very well meet with resistance, resentment, or just straight up get ignored. It will serve to drive them off the site. OWL in particular seems to be good at focusing on the question actually asked. Many others? Not so much.

A few too many individuals living what happened to them vicariously through someone like you. Not really a good thing.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm not quite sure where you're mother was coming from on that one Spark. A devout Christian should be very much aware of the adultery clause as an exception allowing for divorce in the New Testament. Her advice sounds oddly materialistic.

 

If one of my kids grows up to experience a spouse who cheats on them, I'll give them my advice based on what I know of their circumstances, but I'd certainly support what they decide to do. I don't think "you'll lose everything" would even be something that would roll off my lips.

 

 

Sparks mom is probably like mine. They come from a different generation of women needing the man not just for economic purposes but for existence. Women were socialized to believe they were less than without a husband. No one wanted to be an "old maid" or the "widow" and no one wanted to hang around the "gay divorcee". It took my mom a hot minute to get over that mess, but my granmother never did and to this day wants to know if I have a new man yet:rolleyes: Sure grandma...his name is Mr. Smith Wesson. Sorry too much wine tonight.

[The Blue Knight]

Sparks mom is probably like mine. They come from a different generation of women needing the man not just for economic purposes but for existence. Women were socialized to believe they were less than without a husband. No one wanted to be an "old maid" or the "widow" and no one wanted to hang around the "gay divorcee". It took my mom a hot minute to get over that mess, but my granmother never did and to this day wants to know if I have a new man yet:rolleyes: Sure grandma...his name is Mr. Smith Wesson. Sorry too much wine tonight.

 

You funny gal Bent :laugh:

You could be right. My mother came through the "liberated" 70s and after 18 years with my Dad decided to divorce and "find herself" around '77. The Gloria Steinman propaganda really got inside her head and she began to buy that "I've been just a homemaker living in the shadow of my husband" nonsense. I think today she regrets a lot of it as she's now in her early 70s.

[bentnotbroken]

Bent that would be Mr Smith N. Wesson?

 

My Mom is very religious (but not into taking the bible literally). She kicked by Dad out when he cheated the second time. She said she couldn't have gritted her teeth through months of fence sitting WH did (even though he was NC and transparent). But she admires I stuck it out even though she says she couldn't. She says I can always leave next week if I want to but the hoice will be mine now not someone else's. That means a lot to me. Also it means a lot to me that he doesn't want the xOW anymore (both for myself that she wouldn't profit at my expense if I divorced and also tht my kids are safe from beińg shared with her.

 

I may yet D. But I now have a WH who doesn't want me to. The ball is finally in my court.

 

 

He is my gun. Very dependable.

[bentnotbroken]

You funny gal Bent :laugh:

 

You could be right. My mother came through the "liberated" 70s and after 18 years with my Dad decided to divorce and "find herself" around '77. The Gloria Steinman propaganda really got inside her head and she began to buy that "I've been just a homemaker living in the shadow of my husband" nonsense. I think today she regrets a lot of it as she's now in her early 70s.

 

 

Don't get me wrong BK, my mom stuck around for more than 40 years until my dad's death and he stuck around for his share of her mess. I think she just felt that she didn't need to, she wanted to. My grandmothers on the other hand, needed to stay married...they felt as if they needed to be married to be fully accepted. My parents were feminist who made sure their children understood the responsibilities of being married and the choices available if things could not be worked out. For that I am eternally grateful.

 

I did pray about my choices before I made them. I kept getting the same message and I followed that whisper...I haven't regretted that either.