BSs in the hot seat once again. WHY?

[Spark1111]

Instead of talking in riddles why not just state what you DID actually do.

 

Only when you finally had your fill, had kicked him out, packed his bags and were on a path to divorce, and were serious about it, did he FINALLY start taking R seriously. HAD HE NOT WOKEN UP at that point, YOU WOULD HAVE DIVORCED HIM. (According to what I've seen you post here.)

 

So just tell us at what point after D day you finally put your foot down and we'll have the answer to the question you just posed, won't we?

 

But PLAN, surely you realize not all BS are me! Surely you realize, that I had grown children, a successful job of my own, and a whole bushel-full of natural confidence.

 

Not everyone has that. Not everyone has the options nor confidence I had.

 

Was I successful? Ultimately, yes I was.

 

But I cannot be so arrogant to assume what I did, what worked in my sitch, is what everyone can do.

 

I have always said, had my children been younger, I too may have eaten a lot of bs to get it back.

 

In fact, I have known fathers and mothers who have....because of trying to protect and preserve minor children.

 

As a parent, I get that completely and PASS NO JUDGEMENT. Children are primary. There welfare, especially at young ages, would take precedent over my romantic standards.

 

I treat those BSs with kid gloves. It is much more complicated for them.

 

I get that.

[Spark1111]

Why amazed? Its an opinion and personal preference. Some people, like me, simply don't see the use in staying with someone that cheats. Simple as that.

 

That doesn't mean I will look down on anyone that does stay. I sympathize with them.

 

 

 

 

Oh I know there are a small handful of poster that will get down on a BS that chooses to stay. I never will, with the exception of a BS that starts lambasting the opinions respectfully conveyed by others simply because it doesn't conform to what they already know they want to do.

 

 

 

 

If it works out for you, then I'm happy for you. Now if you ended up taking the advice from someone like me, whose only motivation is to help you since I've been in your shoes, only to tell me I'm an angry POS or something, then the gloves come off.

 

I know you didn't act this way towards me, I'm just speaking in "what if".

 

 

 

 

Because we despise people that cheat. Just because we are happy that we got rid of a cheater doesn't mean we can't still find the actions of such people reprehensible.

 

 

 

 

Well the definition of a cuckold is a man married to an unfaithful wife. Now if reconciliation happens then the man no longer remains a cuckold.

 

But, IMO, if a man reconciles with his wife, but the wife isn't truly remorseful, then he is still a cuckold. Even if wife doesn't actually cheat again, she is unfaithful in her heart (and same with gender roles reversed)

 

 

 

I only understand a BS getting some heat back if, for example, say someone advises a BS to get a divorce because their WS is obviously a cheating POS that will never be truly faithful, whether an affair ever happens again or not. Then because said BS doesn't like the advice, they start slamming the person that is trying to speak from experience. THEN I understand when a BS takes some heat.

 

 

 

 

I'd never slam a BS for choosing to stay with their WS, so long as they don't slam me for my stance on cheating.

 

I would never slam you for your choice to divorce or your stance on cheating!

 

I would only slam you if your pain or anger colored every single post you made.

 

You have absolutely every right to hold the convictions you do and to express them!

 

But if I began to sense your convictions closed your ears to my sitch, my pain, and my need for some sort of support and advice to help me achieve my heart's desire......whatever that may be on a relationship support web site....I may begin to ignore or question or dismiss your advice in it's entirety.

 

If you show no compassion, empathy, or try the least bit of understanding to me and my feelings; if you are ONLY here to rant about your feelings.....I have to question your posts.

 

And then I am back to my original question: IF you are happy with your decision to either divorce or reconcile......why are you still SOOOOO angry as to not hear me and my pain?

 

Listen to my sitch? Understand my pain? Understand my limitations?

 

Offer advice based on what you read?

 

Or, stuck in anger and rigid judgement, hammer, hammer, hammer your sitch over and over onto me and my sitch.

 

It tells me.......you haven't moved on.

 

You can be right and angry till the day you die. I almost got stuck there so I understand.

 

Or you can heal....find some personal peace...move on....and find balance in your life....in your soul.....and in your posts to others.

 

 

 

I

[SandieBeach]

But PLAN, surely you realize not all BS are me! Surely you realize, that I had grown children, a successful job of my own, and a whole bushel-full of natural confidence.

 

Not everyone has that. Not everyone has the options nor confidence I had.

 

Was I successful? Ultimately, yes I was.

 

But I cannot be so arrogant to assume what I did, what worked in my sitch, is what everyone can do.

 

I have always said, had my children been younger, I too may have eaten a lot of bs to get it back.

 

In fact, I have known fathers and mothers who have....because of trying to protect and preserve minor children.

 

As a parent, I get that completely and PASS NO JUDGEMENT. Children are primary. There welfare, especially at young ages, would take precedent over my romantic standards.

 

I treat those BSs with kid gloves. It is much more complicated for them.

 

I get that.

 

Why do you even respond to this person? It's not a constructive dialogue - it's like arguing with a kitchen table...

[Summer Breeze]

I am frequently amazed by the many posters who feel infidelity is completely unforgivable and the only accepted response is to leave and divorce.

 

It often is the correct response, certainly it must have been the right choice for those who did it; who knew in their hearts that they could never forgive and the relationship was over. That takes courage and I applaud you!

 

But for others, they almost have a hatred, a vitriol, for spouses who, while in enormous pain following infidelity, are still in the trenches trying to fight for the marriage; are still hoping to honor their vows and retain or preserve the integrity they have always had.

 

We didn't cheat, but damn! We are NOT stupid. Maybe it just took us longer to figure it out; to identify our true feelings --no easy feat while in the sh##storm of betrayal pain.

 

Maybe some of us will divorce down the road. Maybe some of us realized we could and should reconcile.

 

We are just NOT as angry as so many of you who post here.

 

So, I guess, I do not understand why some are so angry that I, and others like me, chose to give it a shot, my all, to preserve what I thought was a good, often great relationship.

 

If you were so happy to have divorced the cheater, why are some still so angry, and angry about infidelity?

 

If a man chooses to work on his marriage, he isn't ALWAYS a coward or a cuckold.

 

If a woman chooses to work on her marriage, it isn't ALWAYS because she needed to win or had no other options.

 

So, just like many in the OW/OM forum who come for support and get slammed, the same is true here too!

 

Does anyone understand this?

 

Not only do we have to deal with the pain of betrayal, but when we first come here, so many get slammed for trying to give the marriage a fighting chance.

 

Thoughts?

 

I guess I haven't seen the slamming going on. I see a lot of people, including me, who look at what's being written and giving opinions of what's being said. If I think someone's WS is looking like they're still playing around I'll say it. I don't say it to slam the BS and what they're doing. I say it to maybe see what it looks like from the outside. I see a lot of people supporting the fact that they could never trust their WS again. Just because they say it often I don't think it's a slam to anyone who is reconciling. It's an opinion.

 

I guess instead of threads like this I'd pull people up on it when it's actually said. Something that you see from your perspective as a slam could just be common sense and straight talk from mine. I've seen that said in the OW/OM side over and over again. Cruel to be kind. Tough Love. That is all administered because people see things through their own experiences and tend to respond accordingly.

 

A lot of talk on this thread now about bitter BS. Are these the same posters who detested the branding of some OW as bitter OW?

 

I can't pretend I understand the mindset of someone who reconciles. I don't. There is not one thing anyone has said that their WS has done that would make me get over the total devastation of his betrayal. I would and could never look at him the same way again. My posts will probably always be slanted against reconciliation because of it. I'll probably always see what I think the WS is doing wrong. In no way am I slamming the BS. I just hate it when it looks so obvious and they can't see it.

 

I'll put my apology out there now. If I've ever come across as slamming the BS it's never been my intention.

[woinlove]

I agree with a lot of what SB has said. There are harsh messages, that many won't see as supportive, on both this Infidelity forum and the OW/OM forum.

 

There typically has been a lot more pushback against that on the OW/OM forum, maybe because there is more guilt associated with being an AP than with being a BS. I think there have been more threads like this one in the OW/OM forum, and like, SB, I usually have advised to deal with the issue on a post by post basis when they come up, because then one has concrete examples. What one person thinks is a widespread problem may only be a few cases, but it is those few cases that matter the most to them. [Of course, we are also not supposed to t/j, so I guess it can be a bit tricky dealing with these as they come up.]

 

However, maybe it is a good idea to have these kind of threads right now because the mods seem to be paying closer attention. They are moderating the OW/OM forum and I am sure the Infidelity forum too. What I am seeing is that there are a few cases for them to step in on the OW/OM forum, but it is not widespread. I suspect the same is true of the Infidelity forum.

[woinlove]

Did your kitchen table ever cheat on you? Did it ever deceive you or lie to you?

 

There are worse things in the world than being a kitchen table.

 

I understand that you are coming to grips with being cheated on and desperately hopeful of reconciliation, but one of the big problems BSs have in the phase you are going through right now--and why some of us might sound so "tough"--is avoiding self-deception.

 

I would certainly like to reassure every BS who comes here and is hopeful for Reconciliation that everything is all right, it will be O.K.

 

But since it takes YEARS to even know that--it would be a lie. And what BSs need most of all, even if they don't want to believe it, is truth, not lies, even if the truths are very painful.

 

It's simply wishful thinking for a BS to come here within days, weeks, or months of D day and expect to be reassured in that way.

 

It will take YEARS for a cheating spouse to build up a sufficient track record to where the BS can have ANY real assurance that they are on track for a genuine R.

 

A perfect example is an on going thread with NR. She claims to have been in "reconciliation" for over two years but it's apparently a completely false reconciliation as she's still keeping secrets about her affairs, and her feelings towards her marriage and her husband, from him. YEARS of false reconciliation.

 

Something similar happened to bh/kidd. And look at what NinjaHusband's spouse has been putting him through.

 

It's all too typical I'm afraid, and BSs aren't helped by being given false hope.

 

If the R is real and genuine, nothing critical anyone here says is going to change that.

 

If you've read any of Spark's posts, you would know that the last thing she tries to promote is self-deception. I haven't followed the details of the threads you mention - but I know Spark tries to look at each case and offer advice appropriate for that case. That is the opposite of what she is discussing here, which is a blanket bias in a certain direction - in this case against R.

[woinlove]

I agree with a lot of what SB has said. There are harsh messages, that many won't see as supportive, on both this Infidelity forum and the OW/OM forum.

 

There typically has been a lot more pushback against that on the OW/OM forum, maybe because there is more guilt associated with being an AP than with being a BS. I think there have been more threads like this one in the OW/OM forum, and like, SB, I usually have advised to deal with the issue on a post by post basis when they come up, because then one has concrete examples. What one person thinks is a widespread problem may only be a few cases, but it is those few cases that matter the most to them. [Of course, we are also not supposed to t/j, so I guess it can be a bit tricky dealing with these as they come up.]

 

However, maybe it is a good idea to have these kind of threads right now because the mods seem to be paying closer attention. They are moderating the OW/OM forum and I am sure the Infidelity forum too. What I am seeing is that there are a few cases for them to step in on the OW/OM forum, but it is not widespread. I suspect the same is true of the Infidelity forum.

 

Actually, now that I've looked over some recent threads on the Infidelity forum, maybe I spoke too soon. To me, things look worse over here.

[nofool4u]

I don't know, I would guess that she is hurting, confused, unsatisfied (emotionally or physically), or something similar. Same as a man in the similar situation might be called. If you lash out when you are hurt are you a skank ??

 

Being defined as a "skank" has nothing to do with whether one is hurt or not. Anything to suggest such is nothing more than an attempt to justify the actions of a cheater, or more to the point in your reply of BJ, a multiple offense cheater.

[Spark1111]

Actually, now that I've looked over some recent threads on the Infidelity forum, maybe I spoke too soon. To me, things look worse over here.

 

OMG! See what I'm saying?????????????

[Spark1111]

Being defined as a "skank" has nothing to do with whether one is hurt or not. Anything to suggest such is nothing more than an attempt to justify the actions of a cheater, or more to the point in your reply of BJ, a multiple offense cheater.

 

I've rarely seen a man called a skank.

 

Is it reserved only for wives who cheat? Similiar to slut?

 

Because then it is offensive if it is a derogatory term used to describe women.

 

Isn't the connotation ugly?

 

Do we define men as "ugly" when we dislike or even abhor their actions?

 

Then, it is sexist too.

[Spark1111]

I guess I haven't seen the slamming going on. I see a lot of people, including me, who look at what's being written and giving opinions of what's being said. If I think someone's WS is looking like they're still playing around I'll say it. I don't say it to slam the BS and what they're doing. I say it to maybe see what it looks like from the outside. I see a lot of people supporting the fact that they could never trust their WS again. Just because they say it often I don't think it's a slam to anyone who is reconciling. It's an opinion.

 

I guess instead of threads like this I'd pull people up on it when it's actually said. Something that you see from your perspective as a slam could just be common sense and straight talk from mine. I've seen that said in the OW/OM side over and over again. Cruel to be kind. Tough Love. That is all administered because people see things through their own experiences and tend to respond accordingly.

 

A lot of talk on this thread now about bitter BS. Are these the same posters who detested the branding of some OW as bitter OW?

 

I can't pretend I understand the mindset of someone who reconciles. I don't. There is not one thing anyone has said that their WS has done that would make me get over the total devastation of his betrayal. I would and could never look at him the same way again. My posts will probably always be slanted against reconciliation because of it. I'll probably always see what I think the WS is doing wrong. In no way am I slamming the BS. I just hate it when it looks so obvious and they can't see it.

 

I'll put my apology out there now. If I've ever come across as slamming the BS it's never been my intention.

 

No, I don't think you have come across as a hater of reconciliation at all.

 

But there are others who do. Most empahtically...in every single post.

 

And my point remains the same: If after 5 years you are still so enraged, conflicted, angry and yes.....bitter, WHETHER you divorced OR reconciled, than you are either unhappy with your initial decision, OR you have not healed one whit.

 

YOU (general you) ARE STUCK, and your advise may be very tainted in every single post you right.

 

As if, NH's and Kidd's wife were your very own from YEARS ago. As if NR, or Bellechica is YOUR xW, they lying "skank" who cheated on you YEARS AGO.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I've rarely seen a man called a skank.

 

Is it reserved only for wives who cheat? Similiar to slut?

 

Because then it is offensive if it is a derogatory term used to describe women.

 

Isn't the connotation ugly?

 

Do we define men as "ugly" when we dislike or even abhor their actions?

 

Then, it is sexist too.

hmm skank has never meant ugly to me. dirty? less than tasteful? yeah So maybe ugly in the way they present themselves. I guess the equiv for a man would be how I've seen the term "douche" used recently.

[Spark1111]

Did your kitchen table ever cheat on you? Did it ever deceive you or lie to you?

 

There are worse things in the world than being a kitchen table.

 

I understand that you are coming to grips with being cheated on and desperately hopeful of reconciliation, but one of the big problems BSs have in the phase you are going through right now--and why some of us might sound so "tough"--is avoiding self-deception.

 

I would certainly like to reassure every BS who comes here and is hopeful for Reconciliation that everything is all right, it will be O.K.

 

But since it takes YEARS to even know that--it would be a lie. And what BSs need most of all, even if they don't want to believe it, is truth, not lies, even if the truths are very painful.

 

It's simply wishful thinking for a BS to come here within days, weeks, or months of D day and expect to be reassured in that way.

 

It will take YEARS for a cheating spouse to build up a sufficient track record to where the BS can have ANY real assurance that they are on track for a genuine R.

 

A perfect example is an on going thread with NR. She claims to have been in "reconciliation" for over two years but it's apparently a completely false reconciliation as she's still keeping secrets about her affairs, and her feelings towards her marriage and her husband, from him. YEARS of false reconciliation.

 

Something similar happened to bh/kidd. And look at what NinjaHusband's spouse has been putting him through.

 

It's all too typical I'm afraid, and BSs aren't helped by being given false hope.

 

If the R is real and genuine, nothing critical anyone here says is going to change that.

 

But that initial phase, maybe of shock and denial....is very normal. It is THE classic defense from trauma.

 

Yes, there are four more stages to come and it will be hell.

 

It is not giving false hope! That is once again, YOUR PROJECTION.

 

95% will, at least initially, attempt reconciliation.

 

If they were attempting divorce, I doubt they would be seeking support in the infideltiy section of LS.

[Spark1111]

hmm skank has never meant ugly to me. dirty? less than tasteful? yeah So maybe ugly in the way they present themselves. I guess the equiv for a man would be how I've seen the term "douche" used recently.

 

But "douche" connotes idiot, crude, or less than trustworthy.

 

Sorry, if "skank" demeans a woman's appearance, well then, yep....it is sexist.

 

Is a "douche" dirty? Less than tasteful?

 

I don't think so.

[Owl]

There's nothing wrong with recommending divorce as a likely option after infidelity.

 

There's nothing wrong with recommending reconcilitation as a likely option after infidelity.

 

There IS something wrong with someone telling the other person that they're wrong with recommending their option, brow-beating or insulting them because of the option that they chose, or trying to convince them that they were wrong for having chose that option in their own situation.

 

There's ALWAYS something wrong with using inulting words/behaviors/tactics aimed specifically at users of this forum, regardless of their actions or choices.

 

It's one thing to say that someone was wrong for cheating. It's another to call them a skank, directly or indirectly. One is an opinion, the other is an insult intended to harm. One can be used to get your opinion across, the other should result in getting a "vacation from LS" as William has recently called it.

[Ninja'sHusband]

But "douche" connotes idiot, crude, or less than trustworthy.

 

Sorry, if "skank" demeans a woman's appearance, well then, yep....it is sexist.

 

Is a "douche" dirty? Less than tasteful?

 

I don't think so.

Not arguing with you at all Was just contributing my interpretation of the word. Btw: douchebag as defined by Ray William Johnson(aka Your Favorite Martian)

[The Blue Knight]

Good post Spark.

 

If affairs could be lumped into one simplistic category perhaps we'd all be closer to agreeing about how to handle them if you're the victim of a cheating spouse. But affairs are extremely diversified and the reasons that lead to affairs are notably varied, not only with regard to the cheater, but also the victim of the cheater.

 

An affair is oftentimes not simply an isolated act involving sex outside the marriage. There's so much more to what led to the affair. I've read dozens of posts involving married individuals in unsatisfactory, unfulfilled, unhappy, and often sexless marriages. That doesn't condone the act of cheating, but these are dynamics within the framework of a marriage that can most certainly lead to an affair. We'd all like to believe that our personal preferences would be to get some help for a marriage that is this pathetic (counseling) or just leave if it's really that awful, but realistically that doesn't happen very often. Moreover, a lot of spouses have a nonparticipatory attitude and aren't interested in counseling or "fixing" the marriage. For them, it's perfectly fine the way it is.

 

Then there are those who suffer from minor psychological issues. Not necessarily what we think of as severe debilitating mental illnesses, but rather common everyday issues involving depression, self-esteem, self-worth, feelings of unfulfillment, feelings of missed opportunities, abuse issues as a child, love and attachment problems, longing for approval, and many others. My ex-wife fell into this category. Again, it's not a viable excuse to cheat and we all know it, but this is a very common reason for affairs I believe. I did what 99% of other husbands who were cheated on in my situation would have done. I tried to figure out what the problems were that led to an unforeseen affair. She saw independent counselors, we both saw marriage counselors together, and I attempted to keep the marriage together for her, myself, our kids, and our financial future. The marriage still failed six years later, but I've never regretted trying to make it work, because if I hadn't, I would have gone on wondering years later if I had done everything in my power to rectify the situation. As it is, I'm feel fine about it because I know that I did do everything in my power. This is what NH and others are attempting to come to terms with.

 

Then there are affairs that result from individuals who simply change suddenly and oftentimes without warning. They are one person when you marry them, and then fairly suddenly, after the course of five, ten, or fifteen years of marriage, they change dramatically . . . their values change . . . their interests change, and you scarcely recognize them one day. These spouses want to move on and do so without their spouse but they oftentimes need that "push" to get out the door and they become ripe for an affair. These are personality dynamics very hard to predict I believe because you don't see it coming and these types are impossible to detect when you meet them and marry them. But it's fairly common from what I've observed.

 

Then there's the unforeseen opportunity affair. A guy or gal is perfectly happy at home with their spouse, their kids, their lives and that sudden opportunity presents itself and the desire overcomes their ability to discern properly and they fall. These are often one-night stands or short-lived indiscretions that burn out quickly when the cheating spouse realizes that they can't live in that lifestyle any longer. They often live with the guilt if not caught immediately and will confess years later. If they are discovered, they are truly sorry and remorseful and wish that they could undo that moment they screwed up.

 

Of course then there's the chronic serial cheater. What more can you say? They were probably cheating during the dating period, the engagement period, and throughout the marriage until they finally get caught enough times that the BS finally says that's enough. They are predators looking for anyone that they can hook up with whenever the opportunity arises.

 

What's my point? Each betrayed spouse has to work through this and process it according to their own time-line and their own set of beliefs and values. On top of that, each victim of an affair has his or her own set of dynamics and background to deal with when trying to resolve these things. So for some that might mean 8 weeks is all that they are willing to give before filing for divorce. For others, it might mean being willing to work to get the marriage back to square one for a couple of years before throwing in the towel.

 

There are many who believe someone like NH was being "enabling" by not putting his foot down and being more demanding of his WS. They think he was being a "doormat" when in fact he was simply trying to process and work through the problem as best he could. There are several courses of action a BS can take. There isn't just one. The BS have many things to consider when making these choices. Do they still truly love their spouse? Do they themselves really want another shot at making the marriage work? Is the marriage worth salvaging? Does their spouse love them or are they simply comfortable with them? How does this affect the kids? If we can overcome this, will they cheat on me again? This list is endless and leaves the BS with their head spinning because there's so much to consider.

 

The one-size fits all solutions sounds great, but it's not real life. Dealing with someone who is the victim of an affair can be frustrating because how we'd handle it may not be how they choose to handle it. It's like telling someone repeatedly who smokes three packs a day that smoking is going to kill them. They acknowledge the fact that you're right, but the truth is, they'll quit when they are ready to quit, and no amount of badgering is going to help the matter.

 

I will tell you this. What I believed when I got married at 21 the first time around isn't what I believe today. If asked, like many 21 year olds with limited marriage experience I would have said at the time that I was in the camp of *absolute zero tolerance* for a cheating spouse. And had my wife cheated on me 6 months into the marriage, I'd like to think I would have been done with her right there and then. But I can't honestly answer that question because I was never really faced with that scenario. But by the time she did cheat, we had three kids, and what I considered to be a fairly good life and stable existence together. A mature and thinking person doesn't just walk away from those things without giving it a shot.

 

 

[The Blue Knight]

I still say it depends on perception. Our MC once made a profound statement: "Perception is reality". What he meant was how you perceive things is reality to you. Example: I could post that a WS was a liar. Some may perceive that as insulting when others see it as matter of fact.

Well first off "perception is reality" is indeed something we all have to deal with in all aspects of everyday life. We deal with it at our workplaces, in our relationships with others, and often even in our intimate relationships at home.

 

There are a lot of individuals who choose to remain in the perceptive world rather than face realities. But that's a whole separate topic.

 

I think with regard to your last sentence a lot of it is how you present a line like that.

 

1. Your WS is a liar.

2. It sounds like your WS may be less than truthful.

 

Surely anyone can see the difference between the two.

 

Being direct is fine and I'm a direct person in real life. But here, in a forum like this where we only know each other on the surface, a little tact goes a long ways, and I think it's more appropriate to suggest our beliefs with kindness and concern rather than coming across as insulting and demeaning.

[The Blue Knight]

My thought is if you're not married or never have been married get the fu*k off this side of LS. Who'd wanna listen to someone who has zero practical information?

Unfortunately, everyone has an opinion . . . even if it's an uninformed opinion based on nothing more than their sadly lacking life-experience.

[The Blue Knight]

I should have given up on a man I had loved for over 20 years? In one week? One month? Six months? One year?

 

When would it have been appropriate? When would I have stopped being a fool for giving him another shot? How long was too long to wait for remorse and changed behavior toward me? how long was too long before I was an idiot?

 

You know the answer to this question? You have the crystal ball that could tell me when was too long, or when he was still making a fool of me?

The answer to this question is "when YOU were ready to say the marriage was over, at that point . . . it was over." It's not for anyone else to answer for you, but that won't keep the hordes from trying.

[drifter777]

I am frequently amazed by the many posters who feel infidelity is completely unforgivable and the only accepted response is to leave and divorce.

 

It often is the correct response, certainly it must have been the right choice for those who did it; who knew in their hearts that they could never forgive and the relationship was over. That takes courage and I applaud you!

 

But for others, they almost have a hatred, a vitriol, for spouses who, while in enormous pain following infidelity, are still in the trenches trying to fight for the marriage; are still hoping to honor their vows and retain or preserve the integrity they have always had.

 

We didn't cheat, but damn! We are NOT stupid. Maybe it just took us longer to figure it out; to identify our true feelings --no easy feat while in the sh##storm of betrayal pain.

 

Maybe some of us will divorce down the road. Maybe some of us realized we could and should reconcile.

 

We are just NOT as angry as so many of you who post here.

 

So, I guess, I do not understand why some are so angry that I, and others like me, chose to give it a shot, my all, to preserve what I thought was a good, often great relationship.

 

If you were so happy to have divorced the cheater, why are some still so angry, and angry about infidelity?

 

If a man chooses to work on his marriage, he isn't ALWAYS a coward or a cuckold.

 

If a woman chooses to work on her marriage, it isn't ALWAYS because she needed to win or had no other options.

 

So, just like many in the OW/OM forum who come for support and get slammed, the same is true here too!

 

Does anyone understand this?

 

Not only do we have to deal with the pain of betrayal, but when we first come here, so many get slammed for trying to give the marriage a fighting chance.

 

Thoughts?

 

Rather than get caught up with the subsequent arguments, I'd like to comment on your original post.

 

I totally agree that this (infidelity) forum has gotten nastier over the past few months. Some of that may be attributed to threads recently posted by BS's who are still suffering from the initial pain, confusion, and denial and seem to be doing everything "wrong". Some posters feel they need to shock them back to reality. I've been guilty of this myself, although I fully realize that most people will not blindly take advice from others. They need to live through it and learn for themselves. If they begin to experience pretty much what other BS's on this forum have predicted then they often begin to give more weight to the advice & feedback they get here. One example of this would be Kidd and the way his story began and the progression since then.

 

I have rules regarding my contributions to this forum. I avoid threads posted by women who's husbands have cheated because I have no point of reference for that subject. I advise differently if a BS is not married and/or has no children in that I don't believe that the long road of true reconciliation is worth the pain in this case. I firmly believe that both BS & WS are better off divorcing and starting their lives over in these cases. I try, I really try, to frame any advice I offer as coming from my own personal opinion based on my own personal experiences. I also try to focus more on the BS's personal recovery than anything else. I firmly believe that the BS needs to take care of themselves before making important decisions. To often I see desperate BS's offering cheap forgiveness to their WS in an attempt to make the pain stop without realizing that this decision will explode later on.

 

In my opinion, many BS's come here shortly after d-day because they are devastated and desperately looking for help. Many BS's come here because they are still struggling with some aspects of their WS's affair after the passing of much time. Obviously, some BS's posting here are extremely bitter while others are (mostly) satisfied with how they chose to deal with things. None of them are wrong, they just are coming from different places with different experiences.

[Soul_Lost]

I have only been on this forum for a short while and I can definitely see where the anger is. It's all over these threads. I used to subscribe to the methods of Dr. Harley and the MarriageBuilder forums but I am seeing the same thing there.

 

You have veteran posters that give sage advice and then you have the posters that have only recently become BS's trying to offer their advice as well. I am in the middle of my recovery and am only 3 years post D-day and finally feel that I am at point where I can offer advice.

 

I understand the need to talk (post) it out. Sometimes rash decisions are made and things are stated so matter of factly that it the person in the middle of it all (the BS) can get lost and confused. I believe that each situation is unique and there are cases that are worse than others. What each person needs is different and I think each poster needs to realize that posts are written in black and white and it's EXTREMELY difficult to hash out the intent behind the words at times. This is where clarification comes in. I lurk on many sites and don't post primarily because the overall tone comes across as harsh and some people just finding out their spouse cheated cannot and will not have the ability to think straight. They need to have wise advice that comes across in a tone and manner that is civil. Name calling and giving the wrong advice can and will lead to bad decisions and regret. The best thing I can say to anyone would be to take the time that is necessary for YOU to heal and wrap your head around it. Then go on with what you think is best for you.

 

Opinions sometimes are like a**holes. Full of **it and stink. Once in a great while you will get some truely great advice but you generally have to wade through a ton of crap to get to the one or two great nuggets of information. I realize that anger will come and people need a place to vet that out. But sometimes words cannot do it justice. I have always told myself to read and re-read my posts to make sure that I am getting my point across. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. What it boils down to is treating the OP with the respect you have for your mother or father and using the same language here as you would with them.

[TigerCub]

Hey Spark,

 

I think when it comes to infidelity emotions run high.

 

I also believe that while some advice is given based on one's past experiences, a lot of it is based on projection.

 

The angry and mean comments are based on projection.

 

I think when people lash out at BSs that took their spouses back (especially if it is after repeated offenses) - those comments are the same as the ones directed at OW/OM - ie. "how can you be so desperate, its pathetic to keep believing lie after lie and allowing someone to treat you like crap"

 

(that wasn't an exact quote - but I'm sure you've see those around).

 

I think what while the situations might be different, a lot of hurt people see it as weakness to take someone back just because they love them (BS or AP) - that reason is still seen as a weakness because standing up for one's self and being in a position to leave it all is conceived to be the ultimate in independence and power.

 

Also, I think that people see the way the BS is being treated as abuse (especially if repeated infidelity) - and seeing abuse always makes us (people in general) want to give tough love and say 'get the hell out - you can do better"

 

I think that people who have walked in a BS's shoes and know that pain, get angry seeing someone else take those same steps (although every situation is unique), somethings are still familiar and serve as a trigger.

 

At the end of the day, here are the truths (as I see them at least)

- No one really can understand what a relationship is like, except for the people in it.

 

- If you do what's best for you & you're not hurting anyone, who really cares what others have to say about it.

 

- As long as you truly are convinced by your choices and stand behind them, then that's all that should matter.

Edited April 26, 2012 by TigerCub

[bentnotbroken]

But "douche" connotes idiot, crude, or less than trustworthy.

 

Sorry, if "skank" demeans a woman's appearance, well then, yep....it is sexist.

 

Is a "douche" dirty? Less than tasteful?

 

I don't think so.

 

 

I use the "douche"...met one recently and he sticks in the outer reaches of my mind. But I never call BS who choose to stay anything but "strong".

[seren]

I am of the mind that everyone has an idea of what they would do in a given situation, some, when faced with that situation find themselves making a totally different call than they imagined they might. Their choice, their situation and for each, they base their actions on what they know.

No BS chooses to be a BS, few of us imagine we would or could ever be one, what we do on D Day is based upon our choice, stay or go, it is, or at least for me, it was that simple. I had a choice and my decision was based upon my information about our marriage pre A, the man my H was before the circumstances when he was an a*** and his actions on D Day and his and my, expectations of reconciliation. All this based upon informed choice, which was the one thing during the A that was missing. Had he had an A without all the issues in place that were, my choice might have been different. Who knows.

 

We each are answerable to ourselves, any choices we make are those that are best for us. It is pointless trying to say a person is foolish or naive for not taking the path we choose, we aren't them, don't live their life and don't really know the full picture, so we can and should, IMHO, offer advice without attack. How can another attack someone for their choices? Pretty pointless and achieves nothing. Although if someone is knowingly hurting another, they might expect the odd lambasting.

 

I had plenty of people who thought I would leave, this based upon who they thought I was, seems they forgot that I loved my H and was able to forgive, not forget, but it was my choice, if they chose to talk about me behind my back, then that said more about them than me. I live by my choices and never, ever do anything that I don't really want to or that doesn't enriche my life. I chose to stay with my H because I loved him, he is the person I want to make old bones with and I choose to stay because I would have missed him and us terribly. if I couldn't forgive, then I would have left. No question.

 

For those who weighed up all the pros and cons on D Day and beyond and decided to divorce, well that's their choice and their boat to row. Not for me to say they are right or wrong, that would be very presumptious and based on my view. Why should they even give a toss what an anonymous person on the internet does or thinks. I would advise anyone to listen to their own voice and to do what is right for them. BS who stay are always going to be thought of as stupid, too trusting, doormats whatever by those who think that. TBH, it matters little in the long run, but it does get tiresome when it isn't support or advice and just earbashing all the time, I wonder what people get out of that. I didn't choose to share the man I love with anyone, it is outside anything I would choose to do, I do choose to share my life with my H after we have worked on us, my life my choice. If people don't like it, that's OK, they aren't living my life.

 

Spark, you know your reality, no one else does and you are happy, so just keep rowing that boat.