Question for remorseful OW?

[ashvllgrl]

Hello and thank you all of you that reply.

 

Lady Grey if you are out there I would particularly be interested in your input.

 

I mentioned on a different thread that after 2years post dday I had made arrangements to meet up with the OW tomorrow. A meeting she agreed to attend.

 

Today, I get a 2nd email from her and Im not sure how to acknowledge it and would be interested is some insight. Before I do so I should explain that in another life the OW and I could have probably been friends. We are both in the same profession one with few men, I know we have very similar interests and life experiences. That has been one of the reasons Ive had so much trouble letting this go, it's why Ive had self confidence issues with regard to her. I've been very surprised that we have not run into each other before now and I am sure unless she is actively avoiding me that we will in the future.

 

What Ive wanted from our meeting was some peace, an ending, the final step (hopefully in moving on). Part of that I thought would be accomplished by facing her as it has worked for me in the past with such things as being bullied in school. It did not matter if she apologized although it would be a pleasant surprise and a reaffirmation of my belief in the universe of goodness. And part of the reason for the meeting was to give her the space to do so if she so chose.

 

So she just wrote me. She apologized, said that she has felt horrible all this time and has wanted to apologize but she says unless I give her a reason she will not meet with me.

 

 

So I find myself in a quandry. I know it would take an immense amount of personal courage to face someone you have wronged. Part of me wants to let her off the hook, part of me things we should follow through and than that is it. I mean she will likely face me at some point being the small town this is so why not at a place and time of our choosing. Im thinking this ball has started rolling let's just see it through.

 

Face me...face each other ..... move on.

 

Not sure if I am making sense here and I know the easy answer is going to be leave her alone. But is that really the correct long term answer? Or will it always be unfinished.

 

Again we WILL run into each other, maybe even indirectly work together in the future.

 

Thoughts....

Edited April 25, 2012 by ashvllgrl

[woinlove]

I'm sure LG will be along soon, but meanwhile...

 

She left a door open to meeting by saying she needs a reason. Personally, I think if you can come from a place that is respectful, then communication and connection, even brief, is better than avoidance.

 

In this case, she asks for a reason and so you need to really understand your motivation. If you do, I would suggest responding by being truthful and brief.

You could say that you want peace too, and closure, and that hearing her apology in person would mean something to you ..... (since she has apologized by email)

 

Or whatever it is that best captures why you do want to meet. Maybe just what you posted about seeing each other in the future, so doing it now when you two can exchange a few words in private. Maybe you need to reassure her that you plan to be respectful.

[Spark1111]

Hmmm....I think she must have told a trusted friend and received the horrified stare that said you could be a loony plotting your revenge or setting her up or some other paranoid crapola we've seen mentioned over and over again.

 

She's freaking out that you are not as nice as you sound.

 

Tell her you are looking for some closure; you have a few questions, but she does not have to answer anything she feels too uncomfortable about.

 

That since you do work in the same industry, better to meet and close a chapter than to just bump into each someday unexpectedly.

 

Tell her you wish her no harm and will never do anything to undermine her personally or professionally.

 

For you, it is over and done and you need just one meet-up to put it to bed forever.

 

And AG?

 

Don't assume she is anything like you, ok? I did once upon a time and my fOW turned out to be a real loony.

 

So stay calm and keep your wits about you and your tone nonaccusatory.

 

Good luck. Hope she shows.

[Summer Breeze]

AG I never avoided meeting with his W but I wouldn't do it 2 years later. She may have needed closure a long time ago and it's possible she never got it. She may have spent the last 2 years getting her life back in order. You needed NC to heal. What might breaking it do to her.

 

I walked away when I'd had enough. I still needed to grieve losing him and the R. I wouldn't set myself back. I don't think the possibility of running into is much of a reason to meet.

 

I admire you wanting to talk to her but the right time for her wasn't for you and it could be turned about now.

 

Good luck. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

[ashvllgrl]

Thanks all of you for the thoughtful replies.

 

I was drafting up my reply email while all of you were responding. I am gratified to see that much of what was mentioned in your replies, I think I responded to in my email.

 

I haven't sent the reply yet, I like to sit on things. Let me think a bit. I may post it to see what you'll think.

[rach24680]

Maybe you already know her and thats why she doesnt want to meet??

[whichwayisup]

Just my 2 cents, but I think she's scared of what type of conversation will happen. Will it be a calm one? Will there be shouting? I'm sure she's concerned that you may go off on her (yelling wise) .. I think if you want to write her back just let her know that you're not looking for a fight, that you're looking for peace so EVERYBODY can move on without hate, anger, resentment. As hard as it's going to be on you since you were the one betrayed and she was a part of that betrayal, to go meet her you have to be bigger and stronger (calm) person. Your attitude and how you approach her will set the pace of the conversation.

 

You're probably right, different circumstances you two could have been friends since it seems there's a lot in common.

 

I hope it works out in a positive way and there's a line of respect for you both to have a peaceful and heartfelt talk.

[wannabdone]

I am a remoreseful fOW and I would not meet with the BS two years later. There is no way.

 

I think she's trying to nicely say she doesn't want to meet you by asking you what the reason was for.

[ashvllgrl]

alright people,

 

With respect and only because this is an anonymous forum I am posting her email and my proposed reply.

 

As to jthorne, I wondered about her demand too but to give her the benefit of the doubt - this is the first time she has heard from me since she's known my husband confessed. (We have met 2 times. Once right before my husband confessed and once a week later. It was not until 6 weeks after that that she was informed in a NC letter that I had been told anything and after that point there was zero contact, that was 2 years ago.) So this request from me is a bit out of the blue for her. I was also very brief and cautious in my initial email.

 

I will also say, that at this point I don't really need to meet her except the part of me that likes very much to finish what I start and that I think it would be redemptive for her to face the person she hurt. Ive stood up for myself, I have offered a place for reconciliation. I have gotten myself back.

 

We shall see what happens

 

Her reply

 

Ashvllgrl,

*

In thinking this over for the past 24 hours, I have developed second thoughts on meeting.

*

I deeply regret my behavior of two years ago and have felt horrible about it ever since.* I was thoughtless and selfish, and I am so sorry that I hurt you.* This indeed is something that I have wanted to tell you—I have wanted to apologize to you, although I know that it doesn’t make any of what happened or the consequences go away.* I am truly very sorry.

*

I don’t know what value there would be in meeting now, two years later.* I don’t want to go into the sordid details of that thoughtless time.* I need to know specifically what you hope to get out of meeting before I agree to meet up.*

*

I am sorry for jumping the gun and agreeing at first—it came from a place in me that wants to make it better, to come to peace--although I know that might not be possible.*

*

Sincerely,

OW

 

 

My propose reply...

 

 

Hello OW,

 

First, I salute your courage to even reply back and particularly to accept a meeting. I am also pleased for you that you accept culpability and feel remorse for your actions. This shows to me and I hope to yourself that you are a different? better? at least more thoughtful and compassionate person than you were during that time. I am also pleased because it helps affirm my belief in the goodness of the universe and that good will out (a belief that was shaken 2 years ago).

 

Second, I want to assure you that I have no interest in any details, sordid or otherwise, I know everything I need to know. I also have no intent of hurting or ‘going off’ on you in anyway.

 

I have given this a lot of thought. I too have been looking for Peace. I still think it would be good to meet.

 

You asked why. The best answer is that I would like for us to face each other. In many ways I think that we are very alike, and that was one of the things that has made this whole thing that much more difficult for me.

 

We all believe we are good people inside and do not see ourselves knowingly hurting others, and I, do not think you are a bad person, your courageous reply to my email is evidence enough. I can imagine it would be very very difficult to come face to face with someone you have hurt. But this is a small town, I am actually very surprised that we have not run into each other before this. Wouldn’t it be better to face each other at a time and place of our choosing than in some much more awkward social setting? I can’t promise this will be easy for either of us, but I can promise you it will be a meeting of integrity and grace.

 

Also, if you are like me, you like to see things through. This feels like a ball that has was set in motion a long time age and it would be best to see it to the end. A finality of sorts and hopefully, both externally between us and internally within each of us, it is done.

 

It was hard for me too, to take the risk to write to you and suggest we meet. But it just felt like the right thing to do both logically and intuitively. So I challenge you OW, to take the risk, to show the courage.

 

I hope to see you on Thursday at 5pm.

 

Ashvllgrl

[Summer Breeze]

AG I never avoided meeting with his W but I wouldn't do it 2 years later. She may have needed closure a long time ago and it's possible she never got it. She may have spent the last 2 years getting her life back in order. You needed NC to heal. What might breaking it do to her.

 

I walked away when I'd had enough. I still needed to grieve losing him and the R. I wouldn't set myself back. I don't think the possibility of running into is much of a reason to meet.

 

I admire you wanting to talk to her but the right time for her wasn't for you and it could be turned about now.

 

Good luck. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

I just read what I wrote. I'm not sure if it was too much wine or that I was using my phone to write this but what a mess I made of my response!

 

I'll try again.

 

What I was trying to say is this---the OW would probably have been looking for closure at the end of the A. From your other post it shows she had been told it was strict NC and it appears she lived by that. She's had 2 years to put it behind her, reconcile, whatever she did and now it's being brought back up again. She's respected the NC requested and she's healed. Why would she want to open it up again?

 

I wouldn't think that possibly running into each other is a valid reason. If it had been a true concern it would have been addressed by now.

 

She probably needed closure a few years ago. It seems you need closure now. I think it's unfair to ask her to step out of the NC that she was asked to respect, and has. I would have sent a very polite reply and asked you to respect the NC you requested at the outset.

 

Again I say I really admire you for writing to her. I admire her for the response. I don't find it odd at all for her to ask you what you're looking for from meeting. That's the first thing I'd ask. The BS is breaking NC to meet up with me 2 years after the A ended. They made the rules and I lived by them. That's what I'd be saying to myself. Don't think she's afraid of it or avoiding it if she doesn't show. She's done her healing and it's not fair to rip it open again.

 

My 2 penneth

[woinlove]

I just read what I wrote. I'm not sure if it was too much wine or that I was using my phone to write this but what a mess I made of my response!

 

I'll try again.

 

What I was trying to say is this---the OW would probably have been looking for closure at the end of the A. From your other post it shows she had been told it was strict NC and it appears she lived by that. She's had 2 years to put it behind her, reconcile, whatever she did and now it's being brought back up again. She's respected the NC requested and she's healed. Why would she want to open it up again?

 

I wouldn't think that possibly running into each other is a valid reason. If it had been a true concern it would have been addressed by now.

 

She probably needed closure a few years ago. It seems you need closure now. I think it's unfair to ask her to step out of the NC that she was asked to respect, and has. I would have sent a very polite reply and asked you to respect the NC you requested at the outset.

 

Again I say I really admire you for writing to her. I admire her for the response. I don't find it odd at all for her to ask you what you're looking for from meeting. That's the first thing I'd ask. The BS is breaking NC to meet up with me 2 years after the A ended. They made the rules and I lived by them. That's what I'd be saying to myself. Don't think she's afraid of it or avoiding it if she doesn't show. She's done her healing and it's not fair to rip it open again.

 

My 2 penneth

 

I don't agree that it is unfair to ask her to meet. It would be unfair to force her to meet (not that one could) but I don't see how simply asking someone (particularly someone whose decisions and actions impacted on one's life so substantially) to meet is unfair. She can say no.

 

Also, not sure she has healed, since she said she has felt horrible this whole time. It is not unusual for OW (and BW) to still be dealing with the fallout from an A after 2 years. I think ripping it open applies more to when one is still somewhere in the healing process, then when one has moved on.

 

This could actually be a gift to the OW in terms of her own ability to move on, but since she isn't posting here, we don't know. However, ashvllgrl would like this meeting and I think her emails are good ones.

[Summer Breeze]

I don't agree that it is unfair to ask her to meet. It would be unfair to force her to meet (not that one could) but I don't see how simply asking someone (particularly someone whose decisions and actions impacted on one's life so substantially) to meet is unfair. She can say no.

I respectfully disagree. NC was requested and she abided by it even when she may have wanted some answers and closure of her own. I don't think it's fair to break it and drag her back to it. I can understand why AG did it but I don't necessarily think it was fair. Everyone says how an OW shouldn't even open anything in order to keep her mind straight and not open herself up emotionally again. It's NC. I don't think you can have it both ways.

 

Also, not sure she has healed, since she said she has felt horrible this whole time. It is not unusual for OW (and BW) to still be dealing with the fallout from an A after 2 years. I think ripping it open applies more to when one is still somewhere in the healing process, then when one has moved on.

You're right to a degree. She has felt horrible but she was going along with her life, and in the end she still doesn't feel strongly enough to meet up with AG. If she was suffering tremendously she would have jumped at the chance to meet. I do think it's possible she could still be struggling but you have to agree she had been going along her path and accepted how things were and bang there it was in her face again. I think there is no right or wrong answer on any of this. I don't really agree with AG doing this but in a way I can see why she did.

 

This could actually be a gift to the OW in terms of her own ability to move on, but since she isn't posting here, we don't know. However, ashvllgrl would like this meeting and I think her emails are good ones.

 

I agree the emails between both are very good ones. I'm kind of torn. I never had any thoughts about the OW from my xHs A so had no desire to talk to her. I don't quite get why you need to speak to an OW so it's a little foreign to me.

[alexandria35]

I respectfully disagree. NC was requested and she abided by it even when she may have wanted some answers and closure of her own. I don't think it's fair to break it and drag her back to it. I can understand why AG did it but I don't necessarily think it was fair. Everyone says how an OW shouldn't even open anything in order to keep her mind straight and not open herself up emotionally again. It's NC. I don't think you can have it both ways.

 

Nobody is dragging her back to anything. Ashvllgrl made a request which the OW can accept or refuse. I'm sure she's an adult who can decide what is best for her. Not sure why you are applying such a victim mentality to this OW.

[woinlove]

I agree the emails between both are very good ones. I'm kind of torn. I never had any thoughts about the OW from my xHs A so had no desire to talk to her. I don't quite get why you need to speak to an OW so it's a little foreign to me.

 

Re your inserted answers (not copied above), as you say, we disagree on this. I also don't see the symmetry between OW and BW, which you response hints at. My understanding is that NC is primarily to end the A, i.e., to stop all communication between the WS and AP. I can imagine situations where one has NC between the WH and OW and yet the OW and BW may communicate at some specific time, for some specific purpose. I see nothing unfair about this in general, or about the specific case being discussed here, but I acknowledge that you do.

 

Personally, if the BW contacted me a decade later I would not think it was unfair. I might or might not answer, but her treating me unfairly by merely contacting me and asking if I would meet her would be the furthest thought from my mind.

 

If an OW contacted the BW once to sincerely apologize after some time, I would not consider that unfair either (assuming things didn't get into harassment, restraining order, etc prior to this) although I acknowledge it may be unwelcome (too little, too late, not believable, whatever) by the BW. On the other hand, if the OW contacted the still married WH after some time, when he had asked for and respected NC, then I do think that would be inappropriate and more than unfair.

[Summer Breeze]

Nobody is dragging her back to anything. Ashvllgrl made a request which the OW can accept or refuse. I'm sure she's an adult who can decide what is best for her. Not sure why you are applying such a victim mentality to this OW.

 

And I'm saying she's been adhering to the NC that was requested and getting on with her life. I don't think it's right to assume it's fair to disrupt her in the middle of it. She's agreed and gotten on with things. That doesn't make her a victim, it makes her someone who made an agreement and is sticking to it. The others in the agreement should as well. By saying it's ok to jump in a few years later then it should be fine for the OW to do the same. Why bother to have NC?

[skywriter]

Since OW claim to know everything under the sun about the BS, she should already know that this BS is not violent.

 

HUh?

[woinlove]

And I'm saying she's been adhering to the NC that was requested and getting on with her life. I don't think it's right to assume it's fair to disrupt her in the middle of it. She's agreed and gotten on with things. That doesn't make her a victim, it makes her someone who made an agreement and is sticking to it. The others in the agreement should as well. By saying it's ok to jump in a few years later then it should be fine for the OW to do the same. Why bother to have NC?

 

Sometimes people don't stick to a prior agreement and it is very welcome - it all depends on the specific circumstances. In this case, the OW immediately accepted and only later had doubts, and even then, left a door open.

 

Recall GG getting contacted by xMM after there had been NC for quite a long time. GG said she actually found closure from that meeting. Was that unfair to GG even though it gave her positive benefit? (The issue of the meeting being kept secret from the BW is a different one - I can see unfairness there, but don't see unfairness to GG if she really welcomed it.)

 

More generally though, I do think the circumstances for an OW contacting a BW and a BW contacting an OW are not identical as far as what is fair or appropriate and what isn't.

[Summer Breeze]

Re your inserted answers (not copied above), as you say, we disagree on this. I also don't see the symmetry between OW and BW, which you response hints at. My understanding is that NC is primarily to end the A, i.e., to stop all communication between the WS and AP. I can imagine situations where one has NC between the WH and OW and yet the OW and BW may communicate at some specific time, for some specific purpose. I see nothing unfair about this in general, or about the specific case being discussed here, but I acknowledge that you do.

To me NC is NC. So what you're saying is that the OW is fair game to be dragged back in as and when the WS and BS want to? Sorry. That's not fair in any way you cut it. I won't belabor the point. We disagree. The one thing I agree with is that AG was gracious and if something was sent she was spot on. I hope that she gets what she needs and it helps them both.

 

Personally, if the BW contacted me a decade later I would not think it was unfair. I might or might not answer, but her treating me unfairly by merely contacting me and asking if I would meet her would be the furthest thought from my mind.

I wouldn't have a problem with it personally but think it's not fair to assume that any OW is fair game to be brought back in at the whim of the xMM or his W. Again that would mean it should be just fine to assume she can do the same to help in her moving forward.

 

If an OW contacted the BW once to sincerely apologize after some time, I would not consider that unfair either (assuming things didn't get into harassment, restraining order, etc prior to this) although I acknowledge it may be unwelcome (too little, too late, not believable, whatever) by the BW. On the other hand, if the OW contacted the still married WH after some time, when he had asked for and respected NC, then I do think that would be inappropriate and more than unfair.

Would it be limited to contact only for an apology?

 

As I said in the last one I answered. NC is NC. It's not something with assumptions that BS can open it up at any point to their whim where it's limited to only an apology from the OW. Once it's in place it should be between the OW and both MPs period. It's not something that can be dipped in and out of by 1 party. My opinion.

[wannabdone]

I think as with everything else, it varies by situation. How long was the A?

[Summer Breeze]

Nobody is dragging her back to anything. Ashvllgrl made a request which the OW can accept or refuse. I'm sure she's an adult who can decide what is best for her. Not sure why you are applying such a victim mentality to this OW.

 

I should clarify dragging her back. If she's toddling through her life and all of a sudden BS sends an email. Do you not think that drags back all the emotion of the A etc? No, I don't think that's fair.

[woinlove]

I should clarify dragging her back. If she's toddling through her life and all of a sudden BS sends an email. Do you not think that drags back all the emotion of the A etc? No, I don't think that's fair.

 

I don't see it as dragging. I see here one respectful email sent by BW, OW responds with 1 respectful and positive email. OW then sends a second email, revealing more emotions (feeling horrible, sorry) plus a question. BW then responds to OW's email answering that question. This is a human exchange, not one person dragging another.

 

What we see so much more of here on LS, is the WS breaking NC. Usually it is a really selfish thing to do as the WS typically still wants to stay married but wants to resume the A. Nevertheless, in some cases it is warmly welcomed. We see cases where it is welcomed and the A resumes or (less common) it is welcome and some closure is achieved. Maybe in some cases, it even leads to the WS leaving the M and marrying the AP. Are ALL those cases unfair to the OW because NC is NC and should never be broken?

 

Here the OW may gain something positive by meeting the BW or she might not. Just hearing from the BW might in itself ultimately be positive for the OW or it might not. The fact that she got to say she was really sorry (even by email) suggests to me that she might have already gained something of great value to herself. Things are not always so black and white when it comes to communication between two women who have been hurt. I think it is possible that both women have already gained a positive here, even if it falls short of what they would really like to have.

[jwi71]

OP,

 

Do not go.

Do not ask her to go.

Do not email her or otherwise communicate with her.

Accept no overture on her part.

 

The OW does NOT mean anything to you.

Her reasons do NOT mean anything to you.

Her apologies do NOT mean anything to you.

Her pyschology, morals or anything do NOT mean anything to you.

 

Closure, validation really, comes from within. There is no magic answer to lingering doubts, questions or anything else. There is rarely time where everything can be wrapped up in a neat little package with a bow on top. Double so with an A regardless of which of the triangle one plays. I know, you think the answer, this mythical closure, is hers to give you (via her answers). It's not. You won't find it there.

 

Drop it. Let it go. It will change nothing to go.

Except maybe pick at the scab. And how helpful is that?

[Summer Breeze]

The OW didn't have an affair with the BW.

 

And... what's wrong with answering a simple request? If the OW isn't making excuses for her behavior, she has nothing to fear. Since OW claim to know everything under the sun about the BS, she should already know that this BS is not violent. What's to lose?

 

Really. They didn't have an affair---that's a surprise. Huh?

 

I agree she would have nothing to fear but she probably doesn't want to be dragged back into the emotional turmoil she was probably in at the end of the A. It's not ok to say it's fine to do that to her when she's respected NC.

 

What is wrong is what that simple request? It's not the request. It's the fact it's well into NC and potentially an OW doesn't want to be dragged back into it. I don't see where that's so difficult to grasp. Not for you specifically but in general.

 

See here's a perfect instance of me putting forward an opinion of NC. And it's not popular so now we're going into snide remarks about the OW knowing everything about the BS. Please let me know where I slipped and wrote all of that in?

[spice4life]

I think she kept up her end of the contract by staying NC and graced you with the answers you sought in her email, so I would let it go. Be greatful that she wasn't like some other OW's who simply can't let go and reak havoc on the MP's marriage for years. She didn't do that, she realized what she did was wrong and extracted herself from the situation so you could heal. Consider it a blessing.

 

As far as growth experience for the OW goes, she may have already experienced that all on her own. It's been two years and she is on her own journey now and maybe meeting the BS face to face isn't part of that. Everyone grows in their own way.

[ashvllgrl]

Well,

 

She has agreed to meet tonight.

 

I was beginning to feel like I'd been played for a fool (like what jthorne suggested just now) - I'd had a night of terrible, terrible dreams very ptsd. Unlike any I'd had since those first few weeks. Woke up in tears. Husband very concerned. It is amazing how much power we unintentianally give to others.

 

But it's down the rabbit hole we go.

 

PS. Her reply was gentile and civil. Whatever this turns out to be it will not be a shouting match. Say a prayer for both of us. It I may post later, right now got to go the the gym work off some of my excess energy. Im not even going to check this for spelling, LOL.