I can't think of one positive thing that comes from commitment (monogamy)

[J322Y]

You have set it up so that the most logical arguments are off limits. I hate pseudointellectuals like yourself.

 

I set it up that way so that we could look beyond the easy answers. Children and unprotected sex are valid reasons for some, but they don't get at the heart of the emotional issues. I feel that often monogamy is chosen because of jealousy, or a belief that you can control someone's heart by imposing limits on them. That's what I want to explore.

 

I have had close to 40 sexual partners and only one serious girlfriend, and I can even see the upside to monogamy. You're a ****ing moron if you think there is no logical basis for it, and for disqualifying two of the most viable arguments for it. STDs can be spread even while having safe sex, like herpes..an incurable STD that is spread by contact.

 

I understand not wanting to take risks with STD's but maybe you're exaggerating the fear a little. Being non monogamous doesn't mean that you're automatically a slut. In my case I would expect to have a handful of sexual partners in a year and after finding someone that I am very compatible with I would probably only be with that person, not because I gave up my freedom but because I would naturally want to spend all of my time with them, because I truly fell in love with them. So while avoidance of STD's is a valid concern it isn't necessarily as important as you suggest, at least not for everyone.

 

Monogamy increases the focus and attention paid to the other, so a deeper bond can be created.

 

Yes it does, but increasing focus and attention because someone has chosen to limit themselves, possibly for the wrong reason, is not necessarily a positive for a relationship. With the proper mate attention will be directed naturally, not because of a contract.

 

Monogamy requires trust, commitment, discipline, and work.

 

All relationship requires those types of effort to be successful.

 

I think one common misconception is that making a commitment to monogamy is like a magic spell that will smooth the path of a relationship. In reality people in MR's are jealous, they cheat, lie, fantasize about others, and often resent each other.

[J322Y]

Long term financial planning. Eg, property ownership, or saving for a round-the-world holiday the summer after next or a car. (and I mean a better house/holiday/car than you could afford by yourself)

 

You can accomplish that with proper legal contracts other than marriage. Even so you're probably right that marriage is an efficient way to achieve a lot of legal maneuvering, but I hope we can come up with a better reason than finance.

[J322Y]

He was defending monogamy

 

He was also being an @$$clown in the way he presented his "argument".

[J322Y]

One advantage of monogamy is that the less partners you're juggling at one time, the less likelihood of partnering with a sociopath or serial killer.

 

I'm not suggesting that anyone juggle a bunch of partners at one time, I'm focusing on the effects of not limiting our behavior with contracts other than the type that we share with all people we respect and admire.

[J322Y]

I'm not going to sit here and list all the reasons I like monogamy because of my biology. I just like monogamy dammit. It's like unicorns and rainbows and kittens and puppies in big bows. It's like those first summer nights when the fireflies come out and those nights when you can see every star in the sky. It's the smell of fresh cut grass and when the trees begin to flower in spring. It's like those days you get to the beach and there isn't a soul on it but you. It's when you catch a site of a family of dear or a fox. It's like getting a really amazing deal on a pair of boots at a Nordstrom sale. Monogamy is just good. I like it. And I'm not ashamed of it....dammit.

 

It doesn't seem like you're describing monogamy as the framework of a relationship, it seems like you're describing the infatuation stage of every relationship.

[J322Y]

Because sharing an exclusive thing with somebody you really love is one of the best things in the world.

 

Have you been with someone who was free to do anything but they chose to only be with you anyway? Have you heard the old saying "If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, its yours forever. If it dosent, then it was never meant to be." That's the essence of what I'm saying.

 

I tried my hand at being a player and while it was fun for a little while after an awful first marriage what I have now is much better.

 

Being non monogamous is not synonymous with being a player. The fact that what you now have is "better" than what you experienced before is not a compelling argument by itself.

[DjinnAgain]

If there is no positive thing in monogamy for you, be honest with your partners and practice polygamy.

 

Some of us do not gain much from polygamy and feel so much more gained through monogamy.

 

And yes, I tried it at insistence to try whatever I could to save my marriage. I wasn't particularly jealous, but I felt disgusting. It did not enhance my life, it detracted.

 

No argument about how things should or could be changes how they are and how they feel, so people can just do what they like as long as they are honest about it... but that includes no dismissive attitude towards monogamy because it's not for you.

[joystickd]

One person that treats you like you are their #1 person in their life. Poly stuff you end up one of many. So what you want to be one of many or the one and only.

[Leigh 87]

Mann. I would not date a guy who did not think highly enough of me, that he felt tempted to go off with hotter women; I need a guy who is really into me, and is so happy with who I am, that he craves for who I am, my personality and over- all package.

I need a guy who GETS it; that they need to want a person so badly, that hotter women do not compare to the uniqueness of their partners.

 

I would hate for my boyfriend to look at me more critically, and I am sure a lot of men DO act this way to their partners, comparing their looks to models.

Besides the thousands of better looking women walking all around you ( most people are average, bearing in mind), there are also: TV, Magazines, and other outlets; should we expect that our partners are blind to the ideas that MOST of us are not models, and there are MANY women who are thinner, and better looking than us? MUCH better looking than us?

I just do not like the idea of getting a guy to not look at girls when they walk right past them... As in, what, turning away?

What interests me most, is: that some men in love DO NOT look at other girls, where as others claim to be able to be TRULY in love and still enjoy looking at other girls.

 

 

I feel safe with the fact my boyfriend likes looking at hot girls. He thinks it is harmless and he is adamant about the fact he wants me.

I Just need to TRUST that when he looks at those girls, he is not thinking " wow, I wish my girl was a tad thinner, had a better nose, I would be more attracted to her if she looked like THAT girl"

[J322Y]

You are assuming that everyone feels the same way about monogamy as you do.

 

No I'm not, I'm trying to understand why we need to set up rules for those we love the most.

 

Believe it or not, there are some people who WANT to commit to one person because being in a monogamous relationship makes them happy.

 

Of course people want to commit to monogamy. I never suggested it was being forced on anyone. Being in a successful and rewarding MR makes people happy, being in a bad MR does not. Ask the people who have gone through divorce if monogamy always made them happy. Or ask people who only stayed together because of children or religion or social conformity. They probably won't give a blanket statement about the joys of monogamy.

 

If both partners feel that way, then monogamy is not limiting either of them.

 

Just because two people agree to the monogamy contract does not mean they haven't limited themselves. Willingly choosing a limitation does not negate the fact that it is a limitation.

 

No one should ever feel that they've been forced into a monogamous relationship. It should only be done if both people truly want it, and there are plenty of people who do.

 

People choose monogamy for a few reasons. One important reason is that most of us are taught that the only path to a happy relationship is monogamy. I doubt that, and based on the success rate of MR's I think we all should be willing to question it.

 

They don't want to play the field, they don't want to have multiple partners simultaneously, because that doesn't make them happy. That may be your idea of happiness, but it's not everyone's idea of happiness.

 

A lot of weird things make some people happy, so we need to find a better reason than "it makes people happy". How many people are truly happy? Not many based on my 53 years of experience.

 

Again, not having a contract of monogamy with your partner does not necessarily mean you're a player or want to have several partners at once.

 

A monogamous situation could naturally develop, without the agreement ever being spoken. In other words, I might find my perfect mate in which case I would not choose to exercise my freedom, even though I could. A similar example is freedom of speech; I might choose not to curse, but I will defend my right to do so.

[J322Y]

@MrNate

 

If you reread my my post, I stated that I hate pseudointellectuals. That's where the real passion came in. Shutting down a dip**** that thinks his logic is so profound. As you can see by his lack of rebuttal, his logic is flawed.

 

I don't have a position on monogamy either way. I think I'm on my way to something monogamous with someone right now, thought I haven't been in 3 years. I'm certainly not against monogamy, it's just not something I regularly practice. That's why I think the OP is an idiot because even someone that doesn't practice it can still see the benefit.

 

I guess you're a real live genuine intellectual. I can tell by the way you handle yourself.

[Jane2011]

The emotions are less messy than they would be if one of the partners was involved with someone else. (And then even if the two primaries are cool with everything, you have to think about the feelings of the THIRD person.) I've known plenty of monogamous relationships that have avoided "pointless" drama.

 

Polys? Not so much, without adhering to a LOT of rules and taking baby steps every inch of the way.

 

Oh wow, another poly thread.

 

I actually want into a poly situation (maybe not my actual gut-instinct desire; I've been socialized toward monogamy and traditional relationships my whole life; but it's 2012 and I change with the times; polyamory is certainly something I'm not completely against and would be willing to explore not begrudgingly). But alas, the girlfriend is freaked out. I'm flattered, actually, 'cause she likely fears I'm going to take her boyfriend away, or at least that he's going to like me too much for her comfort.

 

I do think polyamory is a lot of work, but it's probably not a bad approach either. I'm for it.

[Jane2011]

One advantage of monogamy is that the less partners you're juggling at one time, the less likelihood of partnering with a sociopath or serial killer.

 

True that....

 

lol...

[123321]

For the sake of discussion I won't include couples who want to raise children.

 

If you remove the primary benefits of something preemptively and then ask for a discussion of its' merits, isn't that a little disingenuous?

[Jane2011]

One of the reasons why I'm open to a poly relationship is that the guy who I was seeing who was also seeing another woman besides me...actually treated me a lot better than the guy who I was with for five years in a monogamous, traditional relationship. And the guy (the poly guy) didn't have "a bunch of other women." I mean, he had me and the woman he had been with for two years. People often hear "poly" and think of multiple partners (like it's a countless #) as if the average person is even capable of attracting seven or eight, or even four or five, women at once and having them all. I think the guy in my situation was lucky he had two women he liked.

 

I also think it's less pressure. I definitely see the benefits of having a traditional, monogamous relationship. I think one does feel more special that way. But I think you can still feel special in a poly relationship, especially if it's a limited # of people, not some never-ending web...

 

The choice to be poly or mono just depends on what you value.

 

Right now, thing things I value aren't things that can only be gotten in a traditional, monogamous relationship.

 

I value companionship, regular sex, someone who is very kind and emotionally considerate and expressive, someone who is attentive and consistent, etc.

 

I can get that out of a poly situation. The thing I wouldn't get is feeling as special as a person in a mono relationship, like I'm the only one who can give this man what he wants and needs emotionally or otherwise. But then again, I don't, myself, particularly have a need to feel that way. I'm really realistic about the notion that other people/women are valuable and wonderful in their own right, too. Or that other women are just attractive and appealing as well.

 

As long as the guy treats me with a lot of adoration and kindness (and the guy I was with very much did), I don't mind if he is treating another woman that way, too. Mind you, I don't want it to be four or five other women. But one other woman? I'd be okay with that.

 

Of course, I haven't lived out any of this, except for my brief stint with it (at which time I did have issues with it, but I've since soul-searched and have a new outlook). This is just my attitude.

 

I don't think I'm commitment-phobic. I do think I might be a little fearful (or maybe not even fearful, but just un-desiring and un-needing of) extreme intimacy. I'm kind of a loner at heart, and wouldn't mind staying that way until I die.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Jane2011

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Leigh 87

If it just who he is, so be it; he can look at hot women. Second of all, I do not think he wants to trade me for a better looking women at all! I do not think him looking is implying that he has bad intentions..

 

I'm not sure I understand how a man enjoying looking at hot women is a part of who he is? I'm confused on this score.

 

On that score, I'm a very sensitive person. Does that make it okay if I use that to my own benefit for my selfish reasons? Because..after all, I am who I am?

 

So many questions....

 

What I am baffled by, is: just because a man is in love, true love, with a girl who is more than enough for him... WHY is it " normal" for men to stop feeling horny over hot women that walk past? Why does it indicate, in some people's opinions, that the guy is NOT into his girl, JUST because he likes to LOOK at hot girls?

 

 

I find a contradiction personally is saying a man is really in love with a woman who is *more* then enough for him if he also supplementing with visuals of other women inbetween. Am I saying he doesn't love his woman? No. But I don't see how if he is looking at other women and enjoying them regularly, like everytime we went out, how that could possibly mean I was more then enough for him.

 

I'm also not saying it's "normal" for men to stop feeling horny over other hot women that walk past. What I advocate for is some self control out of respect for the relationship. If a man always has his eye on what he doesn't have, to me that personally says something.

 

 

I find it insulting when people act that way; that because my guy likes looking at hot girls, he is not truly into me. I mean, that is RIDICULOUS: as if they KNOW him enough to assume that much!

 

I don't think the issue is so black and white. But it works for your relationship. I personally would question how into me a guy was if he was oggling every girl that passed him on the street.

 

 

Furthermore, he normally TELLS me in, and I agree if she is hot or not, because I like to look at girls bodies too. I find them to be qiuet beautiful, the huge varity.

 

Do you like looking at men's bodies? Do you tell your boyfriend when you see hot men as much as when he tells you, you see hot women? Do you think men are beautiful the same way you think women are beautiful?

 

I am sure that guys love it when their partners point out hot women to drool over. You get that "cool girlfriend" label. It's a win win for him, he can drool over hot women, you can drool with him, and it's no competition for him since no man is involved in the equation. Men love it when there are multiple women in the equation and no other male competition. And regardless of how harmful or harmless looking at another woman on the street may be, it's still competition. By the nature of men and women.

 

That's just how I see it.

 

 

 

That said, he DOES have a bit of a double standard problem, that I am working on with him; when we were walking past shirtless, chizzled male models at a convention ( SEX convention actually haha), I stopped to check them out, and he was like " bubby, I hate when u do that :(:(:(:(:(".

Of course, I told him " mann, you tell me u love to check hot girls out, so live with it, u pussy":rolleyes:

 

Oh well that answers my question I guess. Yeah, I mean..it's really kind of crappy that he is all about checking out hot girls and happy when you point them out but says that to you with hot guys. My guess is that you don't throw it in his face as much as he may when it comes to other women. Am I right?

[Annie123]

Is happiness a good enough benefit? Everyone is different. Some people will be happier with monogamy and others will be happier with non-monogamy.

 

I tried non-monogamy once. It wasn't for me. It had nothing to do with jealousy or insecurity. That wasn't something that I really struggled with. I just wasn't fulfilled and satisfied the same way that I am with one person. If I dated someone who felt like they were being controlled or limited in anyway, then it would mean we are not right for each other. It all boils down to compatibility.

[oaks]

You can accomplish that with proper legal contracts other than marriage. Even so you're probably right that marriage is an efficient way to achieve a lot of legal maneuvering, but I hope we can come up with a better reason than finance.

 

We already came up with better reasons, but you discounted them from the very beginning.

 

Here's another, given your advanced years: retirement planning. That's not just about finance.

[LittleTiger]

Monogamy is seems like ownership of another person and I don't think it benefits anyone.

 

For the sake of discussion I won't include couples who want to raise children. Also for the sake of discussion let's leave out STD's by assuming that safe sex is being practiced.

 

Having said that I can't think of anything gained by imposing the limitation of monogamy on someone. Can you?

 

There is a major flaw in your argument.

 

Nobody imposes monogamy on anyone - monogamy is a choice.

 

For those of us who choose monogamy it isn't a limitation - it is a joy to know that the person we choose to love, chooses to love us too.

 

For those of us who enjoy monogamy, a happy monogamous relationship stands alone and above any other kind of relationship. If you introduce sex partners outside that relationship, the relationship changes and becomes something else which is qualitatively different. For those who prefer monogamy that qualitative difference is the 'benefit'.

 

You can analyse it until the cows come home but it's no more complicated than that.

[Els]

There is a major flaw in your argument.

 

Nobody imposes monogamy on anyone - monogamy is a choice.

 

For those of us who choose monogamy it isn't a limitation - it is a joy to know that the person we choose to love, chooses to love us too.

 

For those of us who enjoy monogamy, a happy monogamous relationship stands alone and above any other kind of relationship. If you introduce sex partners outside that relationship, the relationship changes and becomes something else which is qualitatively different. For those who prefer monogamy that qualitative difference is the 'benefit'.

 

You can analyse it until the cows come home but it's no more complicated than that.

 

Precisely. If the most prominent aspect of monogamy, to the OP, means 'imposing rules on his/her partner', then we can most certainly agree that monogamy has no benefits - to the OP's relationship.

[J322Y]

I don't expect to "win" some debate about monogamy, but I do want to explore the role it has in our society. This thread isn't going in the direction I originally intended but it's been helpful in focusing my thoughts. Unfortunately LS doesn't allow me to modify my first post now so I'm going to start another thread (with a less inflammatory title and more clearly defined positions).

 

I really do appreciate the time you all are taking to comment. Monogamy is by far the dominant form of relationship and in terms of success we seem to be doing poorly. I put tons of effort into two MR's in my life (10 and 13 years) and neither relationship lasted other than continuing friendships. I, like most of you, would like a lasting relationship but a monogamous commitment didn't prevent my two attempts from failing. I'm not alone in my failure and it makes me want to explore alternatives.

 

I apologize if you've addressed me in this thread and I don't respond. Please check out my new thread and maybe we can come up with some positive insights.

 

Thanks.

[zengirl]

re: Monogamous Rs vs. Poly Rs

 

1. Real Rs that are poly Rs *are* committed (that's the R part, not the mono or poly part) --- there is a difference between playing the field or wanting to cheat and being poly --- so I wouldn't say a mono R has greater commitment necessarily. I will say it's hard enough to form a true partnership with one person, so I wouldn't want to try it with many people, personally. That sounds exhausting.

 

2. I don't see any benefit in having regular sex with multiple people. Like xxoo who said it earlier in the thread, I have better sex and am more comfortable expressing my sexuality monogamously.

 

3. I think if you engage in an R with several people there is the potential for competition and jealousy, and the whole point of a R (for me, at least) is to have a partner with whom I don't have to compete but rather can be interdependent with, mutually support each other, and constantly feel safe with.

 

There are probably others, too, but I don't have all morning.

 

Re: Relationships vs. No Relationship

 

1. I don't want to be a single, adrift, stand-alone entity. I would much rather be a partner, part of a team, cooperating with someone else I trust. We take care of each other.

 

2. It's the only way I feel comfortable, safe, and happy expressing my sexuality.

 

3. You can build a better life together than you can alone, in many cases -- my husband improves my life in every aspect possible. My life is better socially, professionally, financially, happiness-wise. . . Statistics show that marriage has health & happiness benefits, as well as financial benefits, for both genders, so this doesn't seem to be unique to my M.

[InJest]

I set it up that way so that we could look beyond the easy answers. Children and unprotected sex are valid reasons for some, but they don't get at the heart of the emotional issues. I feel that often monogamy is chosen because of jealousy, or a belief that you can control someone's heart by imposing limits on them. That's what I want to explore.

 

 

 

I understand not wanting to take risks with STD's but maybe you're exaggerating the fear a little. Being non monogamous doesn't mean that you're automatically a slut. In my case I would expect to have a handful of sexual partners in a year and after finding someone that I am very compatible with I would probably only be with that person, not because I gave up my freedom but because I would naturally want to spend all of my time with them, because I truly fell in love with them. So while avoidance of STD's is a valid concern it isn't necessarily as important as you suggest, at least not for everyone.

 

 

 

Yes it does, but increasing focus and attention because someone has chosen to limit themselves, possibly for the wrong reason, is not necessarily a positive for a relationship. With the proper mate attention will be directed naturally, not because of a contract.

 

 

 

All relationship requires those types of effort to be successful.

 

I think one common misconception is that making a commitment to monogamy is like a magic spell that will smooth the path of a relationship. In reality people in MR's are jealous, they cheat, lie, fantasize about others, and often resent each other.

 

You are still not getting it. You are again referencing the act of imposing something on someone, not monogamy itself. Monogamy just means being married to one person at a time or the practice of having a single mate at a time. Nothing to do with imposing something on someone. To impose is to force something on someone, so anything be it monogamy or religious beliefs that is forced on someone isn't generally a good thing. As stated before, I don't think anyone would agree that the act of imposing monogamy where someone didn't want it is a good thing.

 

Avoidance of STDs is a real concern, particularly because it really only takes one person, so a person doesn't have to be a slut to burn you. They just have to sleep with one bad apple.

 

All relationships most certainly do not require that effort to be successful. I have a FWB relationship that requires no work, discipline, or even trust, yet it's successful because we both get what we want from the 'relationship'. You should really stop making such sweeping, absolute statements. I think part of your problem is that you only want to see in black and white, and ignore the shades of gray.

 

Yes, people in monogamous relationships do all those things(except cheat..that wouldn't be monogamous anymore.) I still don't see your point. Those feelings/actions can easily be present when in a non-monogamous relationship too, so I don't see your point. Again, you really don't have a grip on what you're actually attacking. You are attacking all these emotions and the act of forcing someone to do something. These are things that are all present with or without monogamy, and you're trying to paint it as some cause/effect relationship where there is none.

 

Why couldn't you just say that monogamy doesn't benefit you and just leave it at that? To say it doesn't benefit anyone, ever is just stupid.

[Cypress25]

after finding someone that I am very compatible with I would probably only be with that person, not because I gave up my freedom but because I would naturally want to spend all of my time with them, because I truly fell in love with them.

 

You just answered your own question. That's why most people get into monogamous relationships.

 

Have you been with someone who was free to do anything but they chose to only be with you anyway?

 

Yes, that's the basis of a healthy monogamous relationship. What other kind of monogamy is there?

 

Being in a successful and rewarding MR makes people happy, being in a bad MR does not.

 

Well, duh. Is your argument that successful and rewarding relationships make people happy, and bad relationships make people unhappy? I think we already knew that. If a monogamous relationship is successful and rewarding, obviously it has benefits. That doesn't mean every monogamous relationship will be successful; relationships fail for all kinds of reasons. Usually, monogamy is not the reason. It sounds like you want to blame monogamy for the failure of your past relationships, but I bet there were other problems that you're not willing to acknowledge.

 

A lot of weird things make some people happy, so we need to find a better reason than "it makes people happy".

 

Why do we need a better reason? I think that's a pretty damn good reason! If something makes you happy, that's a huge benefit right there. Why would you not seek what makes you happy? Why would you deliberately seek something that makes you unhappy? You asked for the benefits of monogamy, and you got 7 pages of benefits in response, but you've dismissed all of them. Just because you think monogamy is weird doesn't mean everyone does.

 

I might find my perfect mate in which case I would not choose to exercise my freedom, even though I could.

 

Yes, that's what people do when they choose to enter into a monogamous relationship. They do it of their own free will, no one is imposing any limitations on them. No one made them sign a contract. They can end the monogamous relationship whenever they want. It's always a choice.

 

Monogamy is by far the dominant form of relationship and in terms of success we seem to be doing poorly.

 

Like I said, I don't think monogamy is the reason that some relationships fail. They often fail because partners start treating each other badly. Being polygamous would not solve that problem. It's convenient to blame monogamy rather than blaming your own behavior for failed relationships.

[threebyfate]

There's also middle ground between monogamy and polyamory, called serial monogamy. Most people reside in this space from puberty on upwards to around their late twenties. Some reside in this space for much longer, up to their forties or older. Some reside in this space for their entire lives.

 

Unless someone's holding a gun to your head, everyone voluntarily enters and remains in relationships, creating a unique set of relationship boundaries.