I can't think of one positive thing that comes from commitment (monogamy)

[xxoo]

Sure. But I'm sure most monogamous husbands are afraid to tell their wives that they sometimes fantasize about the hot female neighbor. Or the women telling their husbands that the sight of a bigger penis than their husband's penis turns them on more.

 

My H and I share fantasies about others

 

"Less jealous" is a benefit, but it could be about time and attention more than actual sex. I certainly don't want to give up any of my time with my guy to go date other people. Kids and jobs take enough!

 

eta....when I get jealous, I talk it out.

[Leigh 87]

My boyfriend and I believe that we both want our companionship to be exclusive, to us; we are best friends, who like to spend most of our spare time together, as partners, lovers, and best frieends. We absolutely are NO open to sharing this with others. IN fact, we feel being emotionally close to ONE person, to the extent of a loving relationship, makes your bond grow much deaper, if it is only with one other person.

 

Does wanting companionship and to build a loving bond between two people, for many years ( hopefully!), mean natural desires for sexual varity should be ignored? Not necessarily. When we are both ready, me and my partner want to explore more varity in sexual partners more.

For us, it happens that I have always had a fettish for watching people have sex, and watching him have sex with a girl turned me on a lot. It was not passionate, and lines were not crossed; and I got something out of it, as did he.

There was no jealously involved, because it was only for sex; sexual varity, not sexual passion or an emotional bond.

Again, one needs to be VERy wary about such situations, therefore I am taking ab reak from 3 somes until I resolve my personal issues.

I think swinging, open relationships, and that sort of thing only WORKS, when the couple are 100% solid and both parties are free from certain personal issues, for instance, self esteem and body image problems.

 

Hence, Although this is our ideal situation in theory, I have enough foresight and advice from people to know that I am not ready to continue, due to my own personal issues, outside of the relationship.

[mesmerized]

My H and I share fantasies about others

 

"Less jealous" is a benefit, but it could be about time and attention more than actual sex. I certainly don't want to give up any of my time with my guy to go date other people. Kids and jobs take enough!

 

eta....when I get jealous, I talk it out.

 

So let's say your kids are on their own and you don't need a job. Everything is provided for you. Your husband tells you that he wants to be with a beautiful woman just for one night and you already spend a lot of time with each other. Would you be ok with that?

[Leigh 87]

Sure. But I'm sure most monogamous husbands are afraid to tell their wives that they sometimes fantasize about the hot female neighbor. Or the women telling their husbands that the sight of a bigger penis than their husband's penis turns them on more.

 

 

 

Geez. I have self esteem issues ( hate my body type and size), but even I do not give two hoots that my boyfriend loves to check out hot girls. I am no super model and even if I was, it is natural and enjoyable for a lot of men to look at beautiful women when they walk past.

 

I think if your in a true, loving partnership, the fact there are hotter girls than you out there, that your boyfriend is turned on by, should not make u jealous or upset; it is a fact there are hotter people around, but it is also a fact that physical beauty is not comparison or threat in a true loving relationship.

 

So yeah.... I am insecure and have bad self esteem at times, but even I do not feel upset by my boyfriend fantazising about hotter celebs or neighbours... It is natural and not a threat to your unique and special relationship.

[threebyfate]

How do your partners usually react to that 3byfate.

It hasn't happened with my husband. I have a lot of trust in his abilities to remain monogamous, as well as the way he handles predatory females.

 

In the past, one experience with a different partner was that he noticed I had withdrawn and wanted to know why. When I explained it, he apparently rectified the situation. But in general, we had some differing views/relationship styles so it didn't work out.

[mesmerized]

It hasn't happened with my husband. I have a lot of trust in his abilities to remain monogamous, as well as the way he handles predatory females.

 

In the past, one experience with a different partner was that he noticed I had withdrawn and wanted to know why. When I explained it, he apparently rectified the situation. But in general, we had some differing views/relationship styles so it didn't work out.

 

I'm the same. I withdraw when I get jealous. Just stop talking and disappear lol

[Mme. Chaucer]

So let's say your kids are on their own and you don't need a job. Everything is provided for you. Your husband tells you that he wants to be with a beautiful woman just for one night and you already spend a lot of time with each other. Would you be ok with that?

 

I know you weren't talking to me, but

 

Our kids are on their own …

 

If my husband told me that, I'd kick his booty! And / or ask him to go to a head shrinker. When we got married, we chose together to take this journey a deux. If he wants to change the premises of our relationship, he is going to have to approach the discussion a lot differently than by telling me he wants to have sex with a beautiful woman just for one night.

 

I am fine with the ideas of polyamory and / or open marriages, whatever. I just have not chosen to go that route. My marriage is based on both of us agreeing about this, as well as a lot of other things.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Geez. I have self esteem issues ( hate my body type and size), but even I do not give two hoots that my boyfriend loves to check out hot girls. I am no super model and even if I was, it is natural and enjoyable for a lot of men to look at beautiful women when they walk past.

 

I think if your in a true, loving partnership, the fact there are hotter girls than you out there, that your boyfriend is turned on by, should not make u jealous or upset; it is a fact there are hotter people around, but it is also a fact that physical beauty is not comparison or threat in a true loving relationship.

 

So yeah.... I am insecure and have bad self esteem at times, but even I do not feel upset by my boyfriend fantazising about hotter celebs or neighbours... It is natural and not a threat to your unique and special relationship.

 

It's also a fact that just because there are hotter people around, and physical beauty is only skin deep, that just because it's enjoyable to look at beautiful people, you don't have to focus on the physical beauty of someone either. Just as you don't have to focus on what your partner is noticing in other people and their physical attractiveness.

 

I personally think it's fine to realize that there are other attractive people out there, even more attractive ones and notice that beauty. However, I think it's the over indulgence and focus on it that ruins it for me personally. How much is my guy noticing? How often is he looking at other women? Is he always hunting for other women when we are out and about? Is he always hunting for other women visually when I've left the house....

 

And since you stated that sometimes you have poor self esteem, then it's easy to see that it's not always about self esteem concerning what we think on certain topics. You have poor self esteem in some regards and aren't upset when your man notices other women. Someone could very well then be confident in themselves and be bothered by that kind of behavior in their own relationship. There are too man ycombinations of people to just make it seem like the only reason someone would be bothered by their mate lusting after others is due to lack of or not lack of, self esteem.

 

At least, that's how I see it.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

It hasn't happened with my husband. I have a lot of trust in his abilities to remain monogamous, as well as the way he handles predatory females.

 

In the past, one experience with a different partner was that he noticed I had withdrawn and wanted to know why. When I explained it, he apparently rectified the situation. But in general, we had some differing views/relationship styles so it didn't work out.

 

Thanks 3BF. I understand.

[InJest]

Monogamy is seems like ownership of another person and I don't think it benefits anyone.

 

For the sake of discussion I won't include couples who want to raise children. Also for the sake of discussion let's leave out STD's by assuming that safe sex is being practiced.

 

Having said that I can't think of anything gained by imposing the limitation of monogamy on someone. Can you?

 

This is your original post. No where do you mention anything about emotions.

 

You seem to have confused the definition of monogamy with that of slavery. Then you made a sweeping, absolute statement that you don't think it benefits anyone.

 

Then you go on to make monogamy analagous with the act of imposing a limitation on someone to paint it in a bad light, instead of just objectively saying, "I can't think of anything gained by monogamy.", you said, "I can't think of anything gained by imposing the limitation.." See the difference? I don't think anyone would agree that imposing monogamy on someone is a good thing, but mutually agreeing to it does have benefits.

 

Why don't you just **** the two women your dating and stop worrying about all this like I told you to in your very first thread, where you did exactly what you're doing now. Spending pages and pages, repeating yourself, trying to get someone to tell you what you want to hear.

[mostlyclueless]

Monogamy and commitment are completely orthogonal concepts.

[xxoo]

So let's say your kids are on their own and you don't need a job. Everything is provided for you. Your husband tells you that he wants to be with a beautiful woman just for one night and you already spend a lot of time with each other. Would you be ok with that?

 

If the point is that we'd have "enough" time together and one night of time wouldn't matter--I haven't experienced that yet. I hate spending nights apart. Maybe I'll eventually get "enough" time in the future, but I can't imagine it yet.

 

If the point is one sexual experience without a lot of time away--I don't know. There are women I know and like and I don't think I would be very jealous if he slept with them. But then, I don't want a poly relationship. I want the closed circuit we have to remain closed, because that is how I experience the most sexual intensity.

[threebyfate]

Monogamy and commitment are completely orthogonal concepts.

Relationship is the hypotenuse...

[Mme. Chaucer]

Relationship is the hypotenuse...

 

are hippopotami even capable of monogamy?

[threebyfate]

are hippopotami even capable of monogamy?

A substantial question!

[mostlyclueless]

Having done both (poly and mono), whichever one you pick, you are just trading one set of problems for another. For most people, monogamy involves some form of dishonest/denial/self-delusion -- "no baby, I don't notice other people" or "you fulfill every single one of my needs." I am sure some person exists for whom those two statements are true; that person is the rare exception (if you're saying right now, "but they're both true for me!" see before re: denial). And then there's the issue of actually denying yourself something you want. That sucks, and people's inability to do that adequately is the cause of a lot of failed relationships.

 

Poly is a whole other can of worms. In most cases, there is a lot more honesty -- brutal honesty, with yourself and with your partners -- which can cause a lot of pain, jealousy, and drama. And relationship systems can become less stable when you are regularly introducing and removing new elements.

 

For me it was worth it to come clean with myself, deal with the pain and jealousy and insecurity and fear, and open up my relationships. (See here for more on dealing with jealousy: More Than Two | Polyamory: The Practice of Jealousy Management). It sucks and is really ****ing hard. But it is more compatible with the things I value (honesty, disclosure, openness to experience). So I deal with it.

[SteveC80]

Monogamy is just not for me,i get bored being with the same person all the time u run out of things to say and do

 

Im also a very horny mne who loves variety in vagine,i coludnt imagine being tied down with someone seeing a hot girl walk by and thinkign i have no chance to explore that asweomeness

[Leigh 87]

It's also a fact that just because there are hotter people around, and physical beauty is only skin deep, that just because it's enjoyable to look at beautiful people, you don't have to focus on the physical beauty of someone either. Just as you don't have to focus on what your partner is noticing in other people and their physical attractiveness.

 

I personally think it's fine to realize that there are other attractive people out there, even more attractive ones and notice that beauty. However, I think it's the over indulgence and focus on it that ruins it for me personally. How much is my guy noticing? How often is he looking at other women? Is he always hunting for other women when we are out and about? Is he always hunting for other women visually when I've left the house....

 

And since you stated that sometimes you have poor self esteem, then it's easy to see that it's not always about self esteem concerning what we think on certain topics. You have poor self esteem in some regards and aren't upset when your man notices other women. Someone could very well then be confident in themselves and be bothered by that kind of behavior in their own relationship. There are too man ycombinations of people to just make it seem like the only reason someone would be bothered by their mate lusting after others is due to lack of or not lack of, self esteem.

 

At least, that's how I see it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some good points; the mst confident and beautiful women get jealous and insecure, and REALLY get bothered by their guy looking, talking to, or thinking about other women. At first, I was like " really? That hot model cares if her b/f looks at other women, and worries about her own looks, as if SHE has anything to worry about, mann!? '

 

But, I learnt that feeling 100% secure and confident in my relationship and my value system, is what makes me okay with my guy checking out other girls. Hot girls may very well NOT feel okay with their guys checking out other girls, and that is normal and fine.

It was just good for me to realize that jealously and that sort of thing, happens amoung even the most beautiful women.

 

He tells me that he enjoys looking at a hot girl when she walks past him. He does not go out of his way, but he says looking at hot girls when they are around him, gives him a good feeling. He simply likes looking at hot girls.

He says loving ME has not changed how he enjoys noticing a very hot girl when they are around him. It made him feel good to look at hot girls then, as it does NOW.

He has been around the hottest girls in the world, in parrts of AUS when vacationing, without ME; and he did not cheat or even think about cheating, with the more hotter women than me.

Looking at hotter girls does NOT mean your man wants them more than YOU.

A night of sex with a girl he is not invested with, does NOt supersede a loving relationship.

Looking at a beautiful women when they are around him, does NOT mean a guy would prefer to trade a relationship in, for sex with a hotter girl.

Assuming the guy KNOWS that sex with other people, will make BOTH parties feel LESS close, hence diminishing what you have as a couple.

 

 

He says it does not change how attracted he is to me; he is in no way LOOKING or SHOPPING AROUND for a better looking partner.

He says our relationship is more than superficual at this point, after a year, and that no matter what

[Leigh 87]

Monogamy is just not for me,i get bored being with the same person all the time u run out of things to say and do

 

Im also a very horny mne who loves variety in vagine,i coludnt imagine being tied down with someone seeing a hot girl walk by and thinkign i have no chance to explore that asweomeness

 

 

 

 

My boyfriends best friend has a girlfriend who is a MODEL, and yet he has cheated on her, with less attractive girls......

 

And yet he HAS had a 5 year relationship previously ( with another girl), so clearly, monogomy has phases for some men; comes and goes.

 

DO YOU THINK if you met a model who was really hot to you, who you fell for hard, would you consider a relationship with her? Or, would u run when u fell in love, before it took hold of you?

 

WOuld u like it if u could meet a hot girl who u loved very much, who LET you have sex with others, as long as you remained emotionally bound to that one girl ? And it was not passionate with the others, just sex for variety?

[SteveC80]

My boyfriends best friend has a girlfriend who is a MODEL, and yet he has cheated on her, with less attractive girls......

 

And yet he HAS had a 5 year relationship previously ( with another girl), so clearly, monogomy has phases for some men; comes and goes.

 

DO YOU THINK if you met a model who was really hot to you, who you fell for hard, would you consider a relationship with her? Or, would u run when u fell in love, before it took hold of you?

 

WOuld u like it if u could meet a hot girl who u loved very much, who LET you have sex with others, as long as you remained emotionally bound to that one girl ? And it was not passionate with the others, just sex for variety?

 

No because while variety of poon tang is a big part of it i also get clastrophobic so to speak when i have to be around somebody all the time

 

i need my space and alone time

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Leigh, I have no doubt that looking at beautiful women makes a man feel good. I guess I just don't see how that's a reasonable enough explanation to do something. Lots of things make me feel good. Doesn't mean I do them. Whether it's out of personal respect to myself, respect to my partner, or for whatever reason.

 

I am not trying to argue you out of a system that works for you and your boyfriend. I'm glad you have one. All I am saying is that this is not an issue that's automatically tied to self esteem or lack of self esteem and whether or not you think it's okay to regularly look at members of the opposite sex or not.

 

I certainly don't think your boyfriend is a cheater or anything because he looks at attractive women. I just prefer a different kind of man. And there is nothing wrong with that either. I guess I'm just trying to say that being okay with your partner looking at other people or not being comfortable with itisn't always a mark of self confidence or lack of self confidence or a deeper or less intimate relationship.

 

I also am not prepared to make the all inclusive comment that everytime a man looks at a hotter woman, he doens't infact think briefly of her over his own partner or infact wouldn't think "what if". Maybe he doesn't leave his woman for the other but I wouldn't exactly argue that his looking is purely innocent either.

 

Now you mentioned a night of sex with another woman and that's a whole other can of worms. Perhaps a night of sex with another woman doesn't mean he loves you less. But I don't think a man that truly respects his partner and isn't selfish, wouldn't do such a thing to begin with. And I think that's the heart of the issue for me. The selfishness in it all. I am not saying that a man can never ever be attracted to other women. I just like men that practice self control out of respect for me. I don't expect him to be perfect. I jsut want to see some effort. And we all have different expectations on the level of effort we deem worthy. That's all.

 

He says it does not change how attracted he is to me; he is in no way LOOKING or SHOPPING AROUND for a better looking partner.

He says our relationship is more than superficual at this point, after a year, and that no matter what

 

Absolutely, after a year long relationship, I am sure it is less superfical. That's why I like when a guy puts in more effort around me even a year later..because it's not longer about the superfical. It's about sharing a relationship together and both of adapting to figure out how to meet each other's needs with respect. Now that I agree with. We just have different lines.

[Leigh 87]

D Y - I totally agree with you - if you are not comfortable with your men looking at other hot girls, that is right for YOU:) Where as I have no issue with it, as long as it is JUST HIM, and not the fact he does not love me enough; that if he had the " right girl", he would " stop looking" at hot girls.

I accept it, because based on my questioning of him and my trust, I BELIEVE it is just the way HE is; that he enjoys looking at hot women: that it is NOT because he is not in love with me enough: that he will meet the right women and CHANGE and NOT enjoy looking at hot women.

If it just who he is, so be it; he can look at hot women. Second of all, I do not think he wants to trade me for a better looking women at all! I do not think him looking is implying that he has bad intentions..

 

 

What I am baffled by, is: just because a man is in love, true love, with a girl who is more than enough for him... WHY is it " normal" for men to stop feeling horny over hot women that walk past? Why does it indicate, in some people's opinions, that the guy is NOT into his girl, JUST because he likes to LOOK at hot girls?

I find it insulting when people act that way; that because my guy likes looking at hot girls, he is not truly into me. I mean, that is RIDICULOUS: as if they KNOW him enough to assume that much!

 

My boyfriend does not do it in a rude way in public, people around us do nt notice him doing it, he is not vulgar ( and blatantly check out other girls, as it is creepy for the girls if he looked at them too strongly or obviously)

Furthermore, he normally TELLS me in, and I agree if she is hot or not, because I like to look at girls bodies too. I find them to be qiuet beautiful, the huge varity.

I WOULD have a problem, if he checked girls out, and made ME feel like I was not enough folr him because I am as hot.

Fortunately, he constantly tells me I am hot to him, and he loves the way I look. I do not feel I am not good enough because there are hotter women out there.

As he puts it; there are hotter men out there than him, but he does not care one bit; because he knows it is HIM that I am in love with.

I also feel the same way. I am ME, and I feel unique and good enough about my personality, and unique looks, to not worry about him wanting a girl purely for her body and looks. He needs personality for him to want to spend his time with a girl.

 

That said, he DOES have a bit of a double standard problem, that I am working on with him; when we were walking past shirtless, chizzled male models at a convention ( SEX convention actually haha), I stopped to check them out, and he was like " bubby, I hate when u do that :(:(:(:(:(".

Of course, I told him " mann, you tell me u love to check hot girls out, so live with it, u pussy":rolleyes:

I put him in his place:) it was cute that he cared when I did it ( checked men out), but, ya know... he needs to know it goes both ways.

Ok, honest: I found it funny that I can handle it and he could not hahahahahahaaaa. He does not mind if I do it alone, of course, he assumes as much.. just not in frnt of him.

[joystickd]

I am just about devoting my time to having a harem and harem management. i get so horny sometimes 1 or 2 isn't enough for me

[Leigh 87]

Leigh, I have no doubt that looking at beautiful women makes a man feel good. I guess I just don't see how that's a reasonable enough explanation to do something. Lots of things make me feel good. Doesn't mean I do them. Whether it's out of personal respect to myself, respect to my partner, or for whatever reason.

 

 

 

I have a few questions for you, I am really interested in your feedback:) Thanks in advance if you answer them:) I hope they are not too personal, or sound antagonistic; I really think your free to live the way that suits YOU and I am not undermining the way that suits you ok:)

• So, are you saying that a guy should ignore his natural urges, to look at beautiful girls, when they have a girlfriend?
  

• Do you think that if a man is truly in love, MOST of them will not want to check other women out?
  

Can you please explain why it hurts you, the notion of your partner looking at hot girls, and feeling good whilst doing it?

• Do you think it means he wants them more than you, just for their bodies?
  
• Do you think if he truly loved you, he will lose his desire?
  
• What about a guy looking at hot girls, hurts you? What about it, threatens your relationship?
  

[Disenchantedly Yours]

• So, are you saying that a guy should ignore his natural urges, to look at beautiful girls, when they have a girlfriend?
  

 

Here is the thing, humans are so complicated that life is simply not only about physical natural urges. When you are in a relationship with someone else you have to think about how your actions affect them. If you are in a relationship with someone that isn't bothered by freely looking at as many other hot people as you want, and you are on the same page, then there isn't an issue.But for me personally, I don't believe we are met to have everyone of our littlest desires fulfilled 24/7. I do not think we should take every oppurtunity of self pleasure just because it feels good. There are many other aspects to consider. Such as emotional planes along with physical urges. I think it's nice when a man or woman forgos their immediate gratifications for the well being of their relationships. Whether that be toward adult partners or their children, parents, sibligs..whatever.

 

I do not disagree that noticing other people is natural. I do not disagree that being attracted to other people isn't infact natural. I just disagree with the idea that we should self gratify under the over simplistic ideal of what may or may not be natural. Heck, if I ate cheese cake as much as i wanted, I'd be obese.

 

 

• Do you think that if a man is truly in love, MOST of them will not want to check other women out?
  

 

I think for some men, when they are truly in love, they don't feel the need to check out other women. I've talked to men that said when they were in love and fulfilled that other women didn't exist for them. And I think there are other men that can still be in love and still check out other women. I also think there is something to be said for just how much time is spent focusing on other people other then our partner.

 

Can you please explain why it hurts you, the notion of your partner looking at hot girls, and feeling good whilst doing it?

• Do you think it means he wants them more than you, just for their bodies?
  
• Do you think if he truly loved you, he will lose his desire?
  
• What about a guy looking at hot girls, hurts you? What about it, threatens your relationship?
  

 

I think it undermines me a bit in our relationship. I won't go so far to say that it's a complete undermindment of me but it is somewhat an undermindment of me. I do think that sometimes a man may want another woman's body more then his own partner even if he loves her. And I think that's kind of sad. I also think that if men spend all their time looking at really hot women, when their partner doesn't meet those expectations, he is setting her up for some failure. There are studies done that said that after men have spent a lot of time looking at really attractive women, they were much more critical of their own partners.

 

I think it is a matter of respect and focus. I want my partner to not be the kidn of man that justifies all his actions on teh back of his sexuality or biology. I want a man that tries to respect our union by focusing on it rather on focusing, even briefly on everything he doesn't have. I can't feel safe with a man that wants to be with me, but check out all the other options of women whenever his little whimsicle feelings tell him too. Because those kind of feelings are fleeting and shallow and a bit dangerous. They tell unrealistic tales. And they take the focus off of where it should be.

 

I have no doubt that a lot of women enjoy getting attention when men treat them flatteringly. It doesn't mean you should purposely go out and seek out other men's attention other then your boyfriend just because it feels good and makes you happy to do so.